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Post by Darcy Collins on Nov 26, 2020 17:46:29 GMT
I would try a different therapist/psychologist. I really don't understand why because "She fails to see her fault in any of her behaviours and thinks she only escalates to screaming and being rude when someone first does that to her" - the psychologist stopped seeing her. She has anxiety issues, she's struggling with controlling her emotions - these are all things that a therapist might help with - because SHE doesn't think it's her fault is irrelevant. I think MANY people are having a very hard time right now - it's not about offering excuses for bad behavior it's about acknowledging that extra support may be needed.
Have you tried yoga or meditation to help ground her when she starts to feel out of control - sometimes those alternatives to traditional therapy can be beneficial for anxiety in particularly.
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Post by NanaKate on Nov 26, 2020 17:47:58 GMT
No advice but I’m sorry you are dealing with this. I feel like my grandkids (17, 14, 10) have been through so much this year and I am amazed that they are dealing with things as well as they have been. Only one goes to school. The other two are virtual school. In my opinion my 10 year old grandson spends way too many hours alone in his bedroom. The 17 y/o has had her junior and senior years of high school ruined. I pray for “normal” to return even though I’m not sure what that is any more. (((HUGS)))
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Post by nine on Nov 26, 2020 17:52:34 GMT
I’m not sure what ‘coding’ means but I do know what gifted means. I think you are too fixated on the notion that she is gifted. Drop that label. Maybe you are putting too much pressure on her.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2020 18:08:00 GMT
Yes, forget the psych and look for a therapist. Dds psych never did anything for her other than try 2 meds and see her 1x a month.
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Post by Merge on Nov 26, 2020 18:12:05 GMT
Don’t focus so much on her “coding.” It starts to feel - probably to her, too - that it’s an excuse for her to not learn to manage her feelings. Lots of personality types, regardless of academic ability, have big feelings and struggle with the appropriate expression of them. Focus on the appropriate expression part. And if her anxiety is not treated, look for help with that as well, because it can be a roadblock in a child learning the adult skill of expressing anger appropriately. In my experience with an anxious child, punitive consequences make things worse in the short term and don’t improve things in the long term. Facing the loss of her phone and being cut off from her social network was about the worst thing she could imagine, and her anxiety would become uncontrollable. Nothing improved. It’s been much more productive for us to say, we’ll revisit this when you are more calm. When she is calm, talk about what happened, and praise her ability to calm herself - even if it took a long time. Also talk about how she feels before she starts to feel out of control. I shared with my daughter that when my anxiety ramps up, I feel like someone is coming at me with a knife. I can feel my adrenaline go up and my rational brain shut down. She acknowledges that she feels similarly. She’s worked on asking for a break or to walk away when she starts to feel this way, and take deep breaths or listen to some calming music. She also can work out a polite and respectful way to express what she is feeling. Ultimately you have to ask yourself if you want to raise a young adult who tries to suppress feelings to avoid punishment, or who learns to recognize and manage feelings productively. I was raised to do the former, and had to unlearn unhealthy behaviors and fix myself so I could help my anxious child do the latter. What has never worked is my becoming angry or emotional when she does. And again, punishments have NOT worked for us. We tried this approach with the psychologist’s guidance and it didn’t work. She fails to recognize her involvement and continues to blame dh and I, even when in an entirely calm state. We have tried coping strategies for anxiety and she refuses to try. I’ve talked about my experiences with anxiety and she can empathize but doesn’t see it in her. She expresses her emotions and it’s ok to be angry or sad or whatever but she must learn to not be mean and disrespectful. Her anxiety is hard to pinpoint. She can do very anxiety provoking activities without any problem at all. Her anxiety seems to be related to time management and a desire to do everything perfectly. We have been doing our best to teach her time management skills and that can help with her anxiety a lot. Also we talk about being perfect versus being efficient and that there is a balance. We praise effort over grades/ being perfect and kindness above all of that. At school, the teachers say she is the one they can count on to be kind, inclusive, supportive and helpful to everyone and we tell her we care about those comments over grades. But she puts pressure on herself. Well ... it’s not a quick fix. Ours is 19 and still a work in progress. The failure to take responsibility is typical of perfectionism - she cannot admit that she may have been less than perfect because her entire self worth lies in being whatever perfect means to her at that time. Make sure you’re modeling acknowledgement of and apology for your own mistakes as they come up. This is something I didn’t have and had to learn as an adult. I would definitely drop all discussion of her coding or giftedness. Kids with that label tend to have much higher rates of anxiety and perfectionism, and ultimately feelings of failure. We can make a chicken and egg argument about which comes first - the giftedness or the anxiety- but it seems to me that the weight of expectation for kids who may feel they are failing to meet their potential is an enormous stressor. If I could go back and do it again, I would not have sought testing or labeling for our kids. It’s become a common joke among high school and college age kids who are labeled “gifted” as kids but don’t end up being particularly exceptional (as most don’t, because humans and bell curves and all). I agree that you need a different counselor or psychiatrist. Find one who specializes in adolescents and has a lot of experience. Good luck!
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Post by candleangie on Nov 26, 2020 18:12:48 GMT
I have two kids who were challenging in very similar ways to your dd.
First, it’s totally normal to need a “course correction” with these kiddos from time to time. You’re doing fine, mom.
We did everything we could to keep responsibility firmly on the shoulder of the kid. That means things like setting a task with enough time to complete it before something desirable is set to happen. At our house that looked like:
“Hey, cool! You have enough time to finish your homework before dinner! Let me know if you get stuck on something.”
“dinner is ready, as soon as you’re finished with your homework” “Hey, I can see you’re not done yet, I’ll fix you a plate and stick it in the oven to keep warm. Do you want extra potatoes?” *Insert pissed off child* “Hey dude, don’t shoot the messenger! I’m just here to get your food request, the clock is yours to manage”
It all has to be very matter of fact on your end. Like you’re speaking with an underling at work.
Getting out of the current funk may take a different approach.
If it were my dd, an apology from both of us would be in order. Her birthday didn’t go as she expected and she’s upset, but not being heard. Her feelings may be big, but they’re still valid.
“Hey kiddo, I’m sorry that you’re birthday didn’t go as planned. I think I may owe you an apology. I’ve been doing XYZHLP for you for so long, but you’re clearly old enough to manage those tasks on your own. So, let’s turn them over to you. If you have any questions about how to do something, I know you’re old enough and certainly smart enough to ask for help.”
You’re acknowledging that she’s upset but not apologizing for any behavior on your part (unless you have something to apologize for.) you’re also handing over a little more control of her life in a non-punitive way.
If she seems receptive after that, then you can maybe work through some of her big feelings related behaviours.
In the future, when she winds up, an empathetic response that doesn’t take any ownership of the problem or the “punishment” on your part.....
Hey DD, I’m also bummed you don’t have time to eat with us tonight. Big person responsibilities are rough, aren’t they? But I’ve saved you a choice pork chop. It’s in the fridge”
“Crud, I was really hoping you’d have time to go for a bike ride today too. Maybe tomorrow the clock will be more friendly.”
Etc etc etc
I don’t know if any of this is helpful. Every kid is different, but we took this tack with all three of our kids (one neurotypical, one adhd/trichotillomania/anxious, and one on the spectrum) and it worked for all three.
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Post by Merge on Nov 26, 2020 18:13:48 GMT
Yes, forget the psych and look for a therapist. Dds psych never did anything for her other than try 2 meds and see her 1x a month. I think both working together is most helpful. Psych for medical issues, therapist for behavioral.
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Post by elaine on Nov 26, 2020 18:16:33 GMT
Yes, forget the psych and look for a therapist. Dds psych never did anything for her other than try 2 meds and see her 1x a month. Psychiatrists prescribe, psychologists cannot prescribe. Psychologists aren’t medical physicians and psychiatrists are. Psychologists ARE therapists (unless they are experimental or industrial and organizational or school psychologists). The OP sees a psychologist and the daughter used to. I don’t understand why the psychologist isn’t seeing the daughter anymore. The explanation doesn’t make sense to me.
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Post by candleangie on Nov 26, 2020 18:19:57 GMT
I should add, when they lashed out at my dh or me, we dealt with that in terms of how it made us feel/affected us.
“Nope. I don’t allow people to treat anyone in our family this way. Come back when you can be kind.”
“Dealing with temper tantrums is exhausting. I don’t have enough gas left in the tank to cook something fancy. There’s soup in the pantry. 2 minutes on high.”
Yes, the plan was to go skating. But being yelled at/kicked at/blamed for things I didn’t do is very tiring and makes me super sad. I don’t feel up to going now.”
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Post by pierkiss on Nov 26, 2020 18:20:28 GMT
I would shorten the amount of time you take the phone at first. From nothing to 48 hrs is a leap. Next, get ready for it to get worse. Anyone who deals with behavior can tell you that to extinguish a behavior, children will usually escalate first to see if that works. In addition to the negative consequences for not doing x y z, have a positive consequence FOR doing it. Just like the negative (phone) start small with small intervals then lengthen the intervals. Consequences need to be know up front. If this..., then this... DO NOT ever back down once THIS happens, that opens the door back up for trying it again. Pick the behaviors you want to reinforce or extinguish. Then choose one or two to work on. Nobody can work on 10 behaviors at once. Again, prepare for it to get worse. There is a book called tiny habits that I have used with my students and myself. It seems dumb, but it does work. Literally ALL of this. This is my exact advice, as a board certified and licensed behavior analyst. 😁. I do it all day every day with my clients. This is pretty much exactly how I would advise any of my parents who are dealing with the same situation/functions of behavior. Great job freecharlie
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Post by freecharlie on Nov 26, 2020 18:20:46 GMT
Well she for herself to school on time. She made a breakfast to take with her. She was mad and cold with me but she stopped screaming and acting out of control. I think she’ll rise to the occasion after school and do the 2 things I asked for. So when she’s no longer angry I guess I talk to her about this experience. Sometimes she’ll cover her ears and say I don’t want to talk about this. Sorry about all of my questions. The peas have such great advice. First, I'd acknowledge/praise each time she does something without being asked. You'd be amazed how quickly something can become a habit when it is acknowledged. As for a reward...what does she want? Maybe it is you reading to her or she gets to pick dinner or whatever If you start talking to her and she covers her ears, stop talking and wait for her. She can cover her ears, but that will not get her out of the discussion, but rather postpone it. With that said, when possible consequences and discussions should be fairly quickly. Think of a dog (I realize she is not an animal, but hear me out) if you yell at an animal for something they did earlier in the day, they think you are mad because of what just happened. The longer you wait to have a discussion the less relevant it becomes to the action. Same with consequences. Her kicking you last night should have been addressed then and then moved on from. With that said, you do not want to discus or levy a consequence while either of you is escalated. Instead, as soon as the tension reduction phase is entered, that is the time to discuss. I don't know if parents can get CPI or similar training, but the kite is a pretty good explanation of escalation. You might also look into Common Sense Parenting by Boys Town. I wouldn't follow it exactly, but there are some good techniques. I have the training as a teacher, nit parent, but I assume it would be something to look into. Start small for both her and you. Baby steps will get you there and hopefully last. One last question, is she only like this with you or does it extend to her dad or outside the family?
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Post by pierkiss on Nov 26, 2020 18:28:30 GMT
I would shorten the amount of time you take the phone at first. From nothing to 48 hrs is a leap. Next, get ready for it to get worse. Anyone who deals with behavior can tell you that to extinguish a behavior, children will usually escalate first to see if that works. In addition to the negative consequences for not doing x y z, have a positive consequence FOR doing it. Just like the negative (phone) start small with small intervals then lengthen the intervals. Consequences need to be know up front. If this..., then this... DO NOT ever back down once THIS happens, that opens the door back up for trying it again. Pick the behaviors you want to reinforce or extinguish. Then choose one or two to work on. Nobody can work on 10 behaviors at once. Again, prepare for it to get worse. There is a book called tiny habits that I have used with my students and myself. It seems dumb, but it does work. Literally ALL of this. This is my exact advice, as a board certified and licensed behavior analyst. 😁. I do it all day every day with my clients. This is pretty much exactly how I would advise any of my parents who are dealing with the same situation/functions of behavior. Great job freecharlie I take that back. I would add that I would catch her behaving appropriately, (however your family defines that) and HEAVILY reinforce those behaviors in the moment. Call attention to the specific things that she is doing immediately after she does it. Reinforce with access to the phone. You should not focus only on taking away when bad. You must give (via social praise, or if that’s not enough smaller-larger tangibles (her currency, so phone access). Then as she is doing those things more and more often fade out how often you are reinforcing those behaviors.
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paigepea
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Post by paigepea on Nov 26, 2020 18:35:44 GMT
I agree with walking away (or sending her to her room) when she is out of control. Punishments should be discussed when everyone is calm and I have reduced a loss of screen time (dds lost all screens, not just their phones) when I got caught up and may have overreact. Another thought, stop doing so much for her. By 12 (actually 3rd/4th grade) we stopped get them up an a regular basis. By middle school they got their own breakfast and made their lunches (until high school when dh and I switched mornings/afternoons, then he made lunches). Does she have regular chores? Older dd has anxiety and wants to be perfect also. Positive works better than negative. She gets herself up and dressed / bag packed but I do breakfast and a lot of reminding. She has regular maintenance chores around the house but nothing that are really for others as opposed to herself (like keeping room clean). She needs to help me whenever I ask for it, which I do. She’ll happily empty the dishwasher, vacuum, set the table, clean the kitchen after meals, but none of that is preset versus me asking her when to do it.
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Post by paigepea on Nov 26, 2020 18:37:30 GMT
I would try a different therapist/psychologist. I really don't understand why because "She fails to see her fault in any of her behaviours and thinks she only escalates to screaming and being rude when someone first does that to her" - the psychologist stopped seeing her. She has anxiety issues, she's struggling with controlling her emotions - these are all things that a therapist might help with - because SHE doesn't think it's her fault is irrelevant. I think MANY people are having a very hard time right now - it's not about offering excuses for bad behavior it's about acknowledging that extra support may be needed. Have you tried yoga or meditation to help ground her when she starts to feel out of control - sometimes those alternatives to traditional therapy can be beneficial for anxiety in particularly. We just switched psychologists to someone who specializes in gifted kids with out of control emotions. We have tried yoga and breathing. She enjoys those things when she’s calm. She hates when I try and deep breath with her during a mad episode. We got her the fit bit because it has breathing routines and she enjoys them when she’s calm.
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kibblesandbits
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Post by kibblesandbits on Nov 26, 2020 18:38:46 GMT
She kicks and pushes you? lolololol that would be the freaking day, let me tell you. You need to grow a pair, fast. What does all this have to do with "coding", whatever the hell that is. Because she's smart? Lots of kids are smart. Like, a LOT. She has "gifted emotions" ? Again, what the heck is that? Seriously, I have a son that is off the freaking charts smart, like ultra Mensa smart, like enter college at 15 smart. Believe me, none of that figured into how we dealt with his actions and behaviors. Maybe you need to let some of that go - you sound more entrenched in it than she does. But sounds like she's figured out how to manipulate you. 12 is a hard age. You pamper her quite a bit . . . time to back that stuff off and start giving her control over her life/daily activities. She's certainly old enough to taker care of her snack, lunches, getting herself up on time, own laundry and personal care. Was your son also diagnosed with dabrowski’s overexcitability emotions related to giftedness. My dd has a few, emotionally, sensual, psyco motor, she has them all except the creative one. If you have experience with this I would appreciate the help. None of it has to do with academic abilities. She will now just touch me with her finger because she knows she’s not allowed to push me. Or touch me with her foot because she knows she’s not allowed to kick me. But these are her new ways of being physical. Um, still a "hell no" behavior. No he was not diagnosed with anything other than a High IQ. An earlier poster said that these are behaviors that have been allowed for a long period, and that seems correct. It is time for a retrenching of your own behaviors and reactions. She's a kid looking for boundaries, and one that struggles with her own emotions. Perhaps she senses your own shakiness, who knows. But still, time for you to toughen up and begin stating your expectations as well as creating space for her to own the things in her life that she can as well as have tangible "adulting" goals to work towards.
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paigepea
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Post by paigepea on Nov 26, 2020 18:42:18 GMT
We tried this approach with the psychologist’s guidance and it didn’t work. She fails to recognize her involvement and continues to blame dh and I, even when in an entirely calm state. We have tried coping strategies for anxiety and she refuses to try. I’ve talked about my experiences with anxiety and she can empathize but doesn’t see it in her. She expresses her emotions and it’s ok to be angry or sad or whatever but she must learn to not be mean and disrespectful. Her anxiety is hard to pinpoint. She can do very anxiety provoking activities without any problem at all. Her anxiety seems to be related to time management and a desire to do everything perfectly. We have been doing our best to teach her time management skills and that can help with her anxiety a lot. Also we talk about being perfect versus being efficient and that there is a balance. We praise effort over grades/ being perfect and kindness above all of that. At school, the teachers say she is the one they can count on to be kind, inclusive, supportive and helpful to everyone and we tell her we care about those comments over grades. But she puts pressure on herself. Well ... it’s not a quick fix. Our is 19 and still a work in progress. The failure to take responsibility is typical of perfectionism - she cannot admit that she may have been less than perfect because her entire self worth lies in being whatever perfect means to her at that time. Make sure you’re modeling acknowledgement of and apology for your own mistakes as they come up. This is something I didn’t have and head to learn as an adult. I would definitely drop all discussion of her coding or giftedness. Kids with that label tend to have much higher rates of anxiety and perfectionism, and ultimately feelings of failure. We can make a chicken and egg argument about which comes first - the giftedness or the anxiety- but it seems to me that the weight of expectation for kids who may feel they are failing to meet their potential is an enormous stressor. If I could go back and do it again, I would not have sought testing or labeling for our kids. It’s become a common joke among high school and college age kids who are labeled “gifted” as kids but don’t end up being particularly exceptional (as most don’t, because humans and bell curves and all). I agree that you need a different counselor or psychiatrist. Find one who specializes in adolescents and has a lot of experience. Good luck! Dd doesn’t know the label. She knows she did testing and the result allowed her to be in a special pull out class but this was a few years ago so that’s all she knows. At her current school there is no pull out so we didn’t even tell the school about her assessment. The recommendation was to retest before high school. So she isn’t trying to live up to anything. The pressure is all from her. We did testing because there were emotional issues. The full test included a psych Ed. I think many people think that gifted relates to academic success but that is not correct. My other daughter is no less smart but is not gifted and I can identify the differences.
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Post by Merge on Nov 26, 2020 18:48:09 GMT
Well ... it’s not a quick fix. Our is 19 and still a work in progress. The failure to take responsibility is typical of perfectionism - she cannot admit that she may have been less than perfect because her entire self worth lies in being whatever perfect means to her at that time. Make sure you’re modeling acknowledgement of and apology for your own mistakes as they come up. This is something I didn’t have and head to learn as an adult. I would definitely drop all discussion of her coding or giftedness. Kids with that label tend to have much higher rates of anxiety and perfectionism, and ultimately feelings of failure. We can make a chicken and egg argument about which comes first - the giftedness or the anxiety- but it seems to me that the weight of expectation for kids who may feel they are failing to meet their potential is an enormous stressor. If I could go back and do it again, I would not have sought testing or labeling for our kids. It’s become a common joke among high school and college age kids who are labeled “gifted” as kids but don’t end up being particularly exceptional (as most don’t, because humans and bell curves and all). I agree that you need a different counselor or psychiatrist. Find one who specializes in adolescents and has a lot of experience. Good luck! Dd doesn’t know the label. She knows she did testing and the result allowed her to be in a special pull out class but this was a few years ago so that’s all she knows. At her current school there is no pull out so we didn’t even tell the school about her assessment. The recommendation was to retest before high school. So she isn’t trying to live up to anything. The pressure is all from her. We did testing because there were emotional issues. The full test included a psych Ed. I think many people think that gifted relates to academic success but that is not correct. My other daughter is no less smart but is not gifted and I can identify the differences. I’m a public school teacher. I know what the definition of gifted is. Good luck with your daughter.
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Post by Baseballmom23 on Nov 26, 2020 18:51:44 GMT
(((hugs))) One thing I would tell my sons was that they were not bad people, they sometimes would make bad choices and therefore would need to suffer the consequences. Also, try your very best not to raise your voice (that helped with my sons).
There was this one time that I made my son choose his punishment (it was for the weekend) - no Xbox or no baseball. And if he chose no baseball, he would have to tell his coach why (it was related to grades at school). He chose no Xbox.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 26, 2020 18:55:35 GMT
If she has enough control to touch you with her finger instead of hitting, or reach out her foot instead of kicking, it seems that there is more at play than impulsiveness or over-excitability. She is literally pushing your buttons.
At this point, I would not change the length of time that she is away from her phone. The two main rules of giving consequences are that they “fit the crime” and that you will stick to them. Never give a consequence that you won’t stick to.
By “coding” do you mean her genetics/personality? I have not heard of Dabrowski’s over-excitability theory (not an actual diagnosis as far as I am aware) but regardless of whether it is related to her being gifted or not, the behaviors are the same.
As for specific types of therapy, I would recommend DBT or CBT. There are workbooks for kids and teens that you guys could work on together, or find a therapist that can help her learn to manage her emotions using those techniques. The book “don’t let your emotions run your life for kids” is a good workbook. “Parenting a child who has intense emotions” is a good one for you to read.
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Post by busy on Nov 26, 2020 19:07:03 GMT
I think you need a different therapist. Covid has been exceptionally difficult for DS (12), who has anxiety, is gifted (so tends to understand things intellectually beyond his emotional ability to cope), is an only child, misses the activity and teamwork of sports, started middle school during all of this and feels very socially isolated, etc etc etc
His therapist has been a life-saver. I am shocked her therapist basically gave up on her. Get better professional help. This is a hard time for everyone and some people - including kids - need extra support and tools right now.
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moodyblue
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Post by moodyblue on Nov 26, 2020 19:13:54 GMT
Also, try your very best not to raise your voice (that helped with my sons). I taught for 42 years. I was not a yeller with my students. I cannot tell you how many times a student would say “You are yelling at me," when I was using a firm or stern tone of voice. Kids sometimes interpret that as yelling even when it’s not. I would often lower my normal volume to get their attention and if the words were corrective or my tone was stern, they would still "hear" it as yelling.
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Post by mom on Nov 26, 2020 19:39:33 GMT
If she has enough control to touch you with her finger instead of hitting, or reach out her foot instead of kicking, it seems that there is more at play than impulsiveness or over-excitability. She is literally pushing your buttons.
At this point, I would not change the length of time that she is away from her phone. The two main rules of giving consequences are that they “fit the crime” and that you will stick to them. Never give a consequence that you won’t stick to. By “coding” do you mean her genetics/personality? I have not heard of Dabrowski’s over-excitability theory (not an actual diagnosis as far as I am aware) but regardless of whether it is related to her being gifted or not, the behaviors are the same. As for specific types of therapy, I would recommend DBT or CBT. There are workbooks for kids and teens that you guys could work on together, or find a therapist that can help her learn to manage her emotions using those techniques. The book “don’t let your emotions run your life for kids” is a good workbook. “Parenting a child who has intense emotions” is a good one for you to read. YES! This is not behavior of someone who cannot control their behavior. This is someone who is very aware of what they are doing and seeing how far they can get.
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Post by 950nancy on Nov 26, 2020 19:43:09 GMT
She's saying and doing those things because they work. Ask yourself what will make her a better human being next year at this time and go with what you think is the right answer. Kids are just giant turds some days.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 26, 2020 19:43:36 GMT
I think you need a different therapist. Covid has been exceptionally difficult for DS (12), who has anxiety, is gifted (so tends to understand things intellectually beyond his emotional ability to cope), is an only child, misses the activity and teamwork of sports, started middle school during all of this and feels very socially isolated, etc etc etc His therapist has been a life-saver. I am shocked her therapist basically gave up on her. Get better professional help. This is a hard time for everyone and some people - including kids - need extra support and tools right now. They may indeed need a different therapist. But it might also be that the therapist has decided to focus on the parent response to the behavior for the time being. I don't think we have enough info on that.
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Post by crafty on Nov 26, 2020 19:51:43 GMT
Stop making excuses for her. If she isn’t treating everyone in her world the way she treats you, then she doesn’t have to treat you that way either. Children with true issues can’t control it when anyone or anything triggers them. This sounds like she knows you’re a pushover and she chooses to treat you like this.
When my boys were that age, we had the rule, if you can’t treat your family with respect, we don’t get to hang out with others.
If you really want to help her, parent her and stop wanting to accommodate her. Yes we talk about mental health issues with COVID, but the vast majority of children will be resilient and it sounds like she participates in plenty of outside the home activities.
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Post by elaine on Nov 26, 2020 19:57:07 GMT
I think you need a different therapist. Covid has been exceptionally difficult for DS (12), who has anxiety, is gifted (so tends to understand things intellectually beyond his emotional ability to cope), is an only child, misses the activity and teamwork of sports, started middle school during all of this and feels very socially isolated, etc etc etc His therapist has been a life-saver. I am shocked her therapist basically gave up on her. Get better professional help. This is a hard time for everyone and some people - including kids - need extra support and tools right now. They may indeed need a different therapist. But it might also be that the therapist has decided to focus on the parent response to the behavior for the time being. I don't think we have enough info on that. Yes, this is what crosses my mind. If the therapist is working with the parents only for now, it may be that she views the problematic behavior as stemming in a large degree from the parents’ responses to the target behavior. That is the only reason I can imagine for the psychologist wanting to only see the parents for now, without providing a referral to another therapist for the daughter. If a child has emotions that seem too large for her to control on her own, it is crucial for parents to set, model and strictly maintain appropriate boundaries for the expression of those emotions. For example, it is okay to be anxious or angry, and it is not okay to express those emotions by physically and emotionally abusing one’s parents, or anyone else. It is an appropriate parental role to help their child find appropriate channels for expressing what feels like overwhelmingly big emotions.
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Post by ntsf on Nov 26, 2020 20:31:56 GMT
I would look for a second assessment.. something is going on. you just don't know yet.. did you go to a developmental pediatrician? thats where I had the best luck for my highly gifted anxious child. who turned out to have autism.
don't look for gratitude from a child til they are 30. just don't. ignore the bad, praise the good. make small changes and get her buy in.. in calm moments. sometimes leaving her alone to calm helps. sometimes it doesn't.
but I would push for a better eval, for therapy right now for her. and best of luck. hormones make it all worse too..
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Post by bearmom on Nov 26, 2020 20:40:16 GMT
I would look for a second assessment.. something is going on. you just don't know yet.. did you go to a developmental pediatrician? thats where I had the best luck for my highly gifted anxious child. who turned out to have autism. don't look for gratitude from a child til they are 30. just don't. ignore the bad, praise the good. make small changes and get her buy in.. in calm moments. sometimes leaving her alone to calm helps. sometimes it doesn't. but I would push for a better eval, for therapy right now for her. and best of luck. hormones make it all worse too.. I disagree with this. Both of my (our, I should give some credit to dh) dds show us gratitude. They show it in many different ways. They may think we don’t know anything , but have always shown gratitude.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,375
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Nov 26, 2020 21:04:56 GMT
paigepea - I agree completely with Merge. I have been doing a lot of listening to Dr Vanessa Lapointe, who is a registered child psychologist here in British Columbia, and what she says is in line with what Merge is saying.
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mlana
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,523
Jun 27, 2014 19:58:15 GMT
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Post by mlana on Nov 26, 2020 21:19:26 GMT
My kids didn't have the issues yours has, but we did have some issues when the hormones hit them hard.
Some things I did -
Time-outs - "You are out of control right now and there is nothing to be gained by continuing this conversation. Please go to your room for 10 minutes and calm down. If you come out calm and able to speak politely to me, this conversation never happened. If you come out behaving this same way, the punishment and consequences are entirely of your making. Your time starts now." Make a big deal of setting a timer.
The LOOK - staring straight at them like they're an idiot. No comments, no change of expression. Let them wind down and then ask - 'Are you done? Are you ready to discuss this or do you need more time to cool down?' Never acknowledge anything they said during their meltdown.
The HAND - Palm at 90* angle and say 'STOP' very loudly. 'Before we get started, you should be aware that I am not in a good mood and I may find it impossible to act as an adult. IF you start throwing names or nasty thoughts, you should expect to get them returned back to you. This may be a battle of 2 5years olds and I've had a LOT MORE EXPERIENCE at fighting this way.' Disclaimer - I fight dirty and I have a great memory. I knew exactly what to say to make them puff up and I was not above repeating it in a singsong voice. This usually stopped them cold. No one can believe their mom knows how to fight like a 5 year old. I don't think any of these episodes ended with anything but laughter, but I was very careful not to overuse this tactic
I also had lines in the sand. I didn't touch my kids in anger - they didn't get to touch me when they were mad. I didn't throw up their past mistakes and they didn't get to throw mine at me. I never threatened them with physical harm when angry and they didn't get to threaten me.
My approach to parenting was to have a sense of humor and to allow for everyone to make apologies and amends. BUT I only handed out punishment when I was calm and once handed out, they served it. To the minute. This was always the case so they knew they better make peace before I made my ruling.
I had a strange list of punishments, I guess. Some of them:
Have to spend every waking moment in Mom's eye site. (Punishment for sneaky behavior) Have to stay with Mom and do each chore she points to without arguing. Have to write a paper - by hand, no typing - about why you think you should have been allowed to do what you wanted to do. Have to be silent for an entire day - punishment for screaming or yelling after being offered a time out.
I know has got to be hard to strike the balance between dealing with a disobedient and defiant tween and dealing with someone who emotional issues, but it doesn't sound like you are doing this. I think your child might do better with a written list of infractions and punishments so she knows what's coming when she starts in. I'd hold the list in my hand and ask if she'd like a 10 minute timeout and redo before the situation escalated.
When she makes her choice, put it on her. I'd use the terms - you chose - or - you decided - anytime we discussed her behavior. I would not accept her putting this on me. Any comment - you and dad ruined my life - would be met with - NO, you knew what would happen if you did x, so YOU made that choice and you caused this to happen. I'd be pretty relentless about this as it seems she has developed a habit of shifting blame. That can't continue if you expect her to make any changes.
As far as the touching you hard. That would stop. You know that she is equating those touches with slapping or otherwise harming you and that can't continue. She touches you, she gets the same punishment as if she slapped you. Tell her in a note what that punishment will be and then do it. No exceptions. No matter how angry you are at her, you cannot and would not strike her. Hold her to that same standard.
One more thing that worked with my tweens - I constantly acknowledged their age. I made a point of saying - now that you are older - or - now that you are getting ready to be on your own - and this seemed to help them stop and think if their actions were those of a kid or of an almost adult. LOL
Both of my kids are grown now.
My oldest has told me a number of times how much he hated me when he was a teen and how much he needed and depended on my boundaries. He said knowing how Mom would react when he came up against one of my lines in the sand gave him peace. For example, the 1st time we caught him looking at porn sights, we locked his machine down. He could only go to pre-approved sights for the next 3 months. We also installed a tracker on his machine that stayed there until after he left home (the machine stayed here.) When we caught him on porn sites again, we locked it down again - only this time it included the Barbie site. I put a note on his machine that said if he wanted to look at silicone... He laughed and accepted the punishment with no more fuss.
Both kids have also admitted that their favorite punishment was having to stay in my site for a day. They said they sometimes did those infractions just to have my attention for a whole day. I didn't tell them those were some of my favorite days, too.
Marcy
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