Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,030
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Oct 29, 2021 1:36:14 GMT
ETA my update: Because I am familiar with the play - it's a HS murder mystery spoof on a very famous play Noises Off - and the imagery used in the play is nonsensically slapstick, it did not even occur to me that anyone would make a connection to lynching. That is definitely my own fault and no question I had blinders on. I didn't select the play, I have nothing to do with the production and there is literally nothing I can do about it other than pass the complaints on to the director/sponsor. That being said, the complaints DID come from people on the same side of the political perspective as the people complaining about CRT and masks, etc. thus the source of my frustration. At the same time as the second complaint came in last night, someone else was calling us communists for supporting the mask mandate so I was in a frustrated place. No excuse, I was plainly wrong, it's just an explanation of where my head was at when I posted.
I am embarrassed and appropriately chastened that I was so myopic about the play title.
Our school is putting on the fall play, in person for the first time since October 2019. It's a Halloween themed play because of the timing. We have now fielded two different complaints that the name of the play - "Nooses Off" - is offensive.
I don't even know anymore. My friend who is the HS librarian told me tonight that they are now getting the first complaints about material in the school libraries. We haven't even really started to fight these new culture wars and I am already so exhausted by these people. I need Abe to remind me why preserving the union was such a good idea.
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Post by ntsf on Oct 29, 2021 1:40:16 GMT
that is such a classic play!!! pox on all their houses!!! (those who would censor)
contrast to 50 yrs ago.. I had an english teacher who taught deliberately the dirty parts in romeo and juliet. I love her with all my heart.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,030
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Oct 29, 2021 1:43:43 GMT
that is such a classic play!!! pox on all their houses!!! (those who would censor) contrast to 50 yrs ago.. I had an english teacher who taught deliberately the dirty parts in romeo and juliet. I love her with all my heart. You're probably thinking of Noises Off, which this play is a spoof/HS adaptation of. Your teacher sounds awesome. I wonder if they will allow anyone to teach Canterbury Tales in HS anymore?
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Post by ntsf on Oct 29, 2021 3:01:16 GMT
you are right!! my memory is going bad. that same teacher taught us the wasteland by ts eliot. her late husband was a famous drama professor at the local university. I also remember her telling me I had to read sons and lovers.. never have. maybe it is time.
she was a legend to our class. we were blessed with several very very outstanding english teachers.
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Post by myshelly on Oct 29, 2021 3:20:56 GMT
Yikes, sorry, but that is seriously insensitive and inappropriate for a school.
No, just no.
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Post by ~summer~ on Oct 29, 2021 4:01:04 GMT
I’m sorry but any reference to nooses is offensive (to me) as it represents lynching. We have such a horrific history of lynching literally thousands of people, mostly Blacks in this country.
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Post by snugglebutter on Oct 29, 2021 4:19:45 GMT
The title is offensive, there is really no way around it. I don't know how popular this play is (I've never heard of it) but it's not realistic to expect no push back from the title.
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Post by myshelly on Oct 29, 2021 4:24:50 GMT
You also need to realize that “these people” who are offended by references to lynchings (seriously, how clueless can you be?) are probably on the opposite end of the political spectrum than the ones who want to censor material in the library.
If you can’t see the differences between those two and understand the historical and political connotations of the word “noose,” I’m not sure you should be in public education.
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Post by tryingtobewise on Oct 29, 2021 4:58:03 GMT
I do think noose references are offensive.
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Post by ntsf on Oct 29, 2021 5:14:38 GMT
I think many go right to.. lynching, whereas the play looks like a satire of murder mysteries of the english variety. so maybe the title does not offend in england, as it can here in the us.
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craftykitten
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,304
Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
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Post by craftykitten on Oct 29, 2021 5:18:26 GMT
I've never heard of the play (although I have heard of Noises Off). I googled it, and it refers to Agatha Christie's 'Ten Little Indians'....yeah, the name of that's been changed as well. Some things don't hold up and noose references ARE offensive.
I am surprised that you are surprised.
If you can't change the name of the play you should at least put out some kind of explainer.
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Post by MichyM on Oct 29, 2021 6:04:37 GMT
Yikes, sorry, but that is seriously insensitive and inappropriate for a school. No, just no. I agree with this 10,000%.
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Post by MichyM on Oct 29, 2021 6:06:57 GMT
Some things don't hold up and noose references ARE offensive. I am surprised that you are surprised. If you can't change the name of the play you should at least put out some kind And this. Super surprised that this play, by this name, was actually ever approved.
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Post by MichyM on Oct 29, 2021 6:08:10 GMT
Also, could you clarify who exactly are “these people” you reference in your OP?
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Post by MichyM on Oct 29, 2021 6:15:52 GMT
It’s late, and maybe I’m more sensitive than I would be earlier in the day but the callousness of the OP really boggles my mind. I equate the title of the play to some play on words about the gas chambers. Think about how many people of color were put to death by noose for no good reason. Then the Jews put to death in the gas chambers. Why is it acceptable to make light of one and not the other?
It’s not. At least in my book.
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PaperAngel
Prolific Pea
Posts: 7,996
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Oct 29, 2021 6:41:53 GMT
Our school is putting on the fall play, in person for the first time since October 2019. It's a Halloween themed play because of the timing. We have now fielded two different complaints that the name of the play - "Nooses Off" - is offensive. I don't even know anymore. My friend who is the HS librarian told me tonight that they are now getting the first complaints about material in the school libraries. We haven't even really started to fight these new culture wars and I am already so exhausted by these people. I need Abe to remind me why preserving the union was such a good idea. [bold is mine] I despise the us vs. them mentality that seems pervasive in our society. I'm disappointed the school received only two complaints about the blatantly offensive/inappropriate name of the play & saddened an administration that approved of this play may also allow racially insensitive material in its library. ETA: ... the callousness of the OP really boggles my mind... Ditto!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 14:28:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2021 10:51:42 GMT
Our school is putting on the fall play, in person for the first time since October 2019. It's a Halloween themed play because of the timing. We have now fielded two different complaints that the name of the play - "Nooses Off" - is offensive. It is very offensive to many people. While the play itself is funny the title is offensive. There are many other plays that they could have chosen that have been written for teenagers by Don Zolidis.
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Oct 29, 2021 11:23:37 GMT
I need Abe to remind me why preserving the union was such a good idea. I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but every possible translation I can think of for this statement is unflattering. What exactly ‘do’ you mean by this?
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kibblesandbits
Pearl Clutcher
At the corner of Awesome and Bombdiggity
Posts: 3,305
Aug 13, 2016 13:47:39 GMT
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Post by kibblesandbits on Oct 29, 2021 12:48:22 GMT
Your school is putting on a play titled "Nooses Off"? Bold move.
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Post by SockMonkey on Oct 29, 2021 13:00:54 GMT
So, here's the thing. I am on my high school's theatre team, one of the directors. We have very serious and thoughtful conversations about our play selection and its impact on our students, their families, and our community.
There are SO MANY options when it comes to murder mystery/play-within-a-play types of shows that I can't see a way to where our team would select a play like this with a title (and likely promotional imagery) that could be perceived as harmful to students and families (especially our Black students and families). While we can't predict each individual's response to such imagery or the title, we would consider how it could be interpreted, ESPECIALLY because the title's play on words depends on prior knowledge of the show "Noises Off," which unless you're a theatre nerd you might not even realize.
I haven't read the show, so I can't speak to the content within. There are just many, many plays to be performed out there that I know we would probably not have made this choice, as it's likely not very special literature that would offer something other shows can't.
That said, getting two complaints that the title is offensive affords your school's production team to engage in good conversation with the folks who contacted them. They have the opportunity to explain the title and the show, which may allay some fears and concerns.
Regarding the library challenges, we are ALSO seeing challenges and FOIAs regarding materials and curriculum. It's tiresome, because much of that is borne out of political action and urging from far-right organizations, not from true community concern or understanding of any of the materials being questioned.
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 4,053
Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Oct 29, 2021 13:16:35 GMT
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,030
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Oct 29, 2021 13:31:01 GMT
You also need to realize that “these people” who are offended by references to lynchings (seriously, how clueless can you be?) are probably on the opposite end of the political spectrum than the ones who want to censor material in the library. If you can’t see the differences between those two and understand the historical and political connotations of the word “noose,” I’m not sure you should be in public education. No, the ones who have complained are definitely on the book banning side of the spectrum.
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anaterra
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,134
Location: Texas
Jun 29, 2014 3:04:02 GMT
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Post by anaterra on Oct 29, 2021 13:33:04 GMT
Serious question... do you really not get why a play with that title would be offensive???
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,030
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Oct 29, 2021 13:50:42 GMT
Because I am familiar with the play - it's a HS murder mystery spoof on a very famous play Noises Off - and the imagery used in the play is nonsensically slapstick, it did not even occur to me that anyone would make a connection to lynching. That is definitely my own fault and no question I had blinders on. I didn't select the play, I have nothing to do with the production and there is literally nothing I can do about it other than pass the complaints on to the director/sponsor. That being said, the complaints DID come from people on the same side of the political perspective as the people complaining about CRT and masks, etc. thus the source of my frustration. At the same time as the second complaint came in last night, someone else was calling us communists for supporting the mask mandate so I was in a frustrated place. No excuse, I was plainly wrong, it's just an explanation of where my head was at when I posted.
I am embarrassed and appropriately chastened that I was so myopic about the play title.
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Post by questioning on Oct 29, 2021 14:03:41 GMT
It's Nooses OFF not Nooses On. I'm more annoyed by people not looking further before reacting. Even if you don't investigate, the title seems against lynching. The title could easily be a play about fighting racism - and we'd be cheering kids on about the subject. Agree with SockMonkey 's comment about providing more description or discussion. And there are other choices out there, the committee must have thought this was a good fit. (Edited to separate this remark from SockMonkey reference) How can we complain about teachers not being given the authority to teach, but monitor everything? FWIW I haven't seen either play but I am familiar with both.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 14:28:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2021 14:38:07 GMT
So, here's the thing. I am on my high school's theatre team, one of the directors. We have very serious and thoughtful conversations about our play selection and its impact on our students, their families, and our community. When my kids did HS theater they loved the part before production even started rehearsing, when they were choosing plays, talking about them, talking about potential controversies about them, deciding what to change, what to add or delete. Thanks for being a part of that discussion that they loved.
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Post by SockMonkey on Oct 29, 2021 14:43:37 GMT
It's Nooses OFF not Nooses On. I'm more annoyed by people not looking further before reacting. Even if you don't investigate the title seems against lynching. The title could easily be a play about fighting racism - and we'd be cheering kids on about the subject. Agree with SockMonkey 's comment about providing more description or discussion. And there are other choices out there, the committee must have thought this was a good fit. How can we complain about teachers not being given the authority to teach, but monitor everything?
FWIW I haven't seen either play but I am familiar with both. I think it's important to acknowledge that teachers OFTEN make very poor choices about what to include in the curriculum/extracurriculars and how to incorporate it. My comment was more about mitigating the damage that has already been done since the play is going to happen at this point. When we know better, we need to do better. So, we can't just give them a pass saying that "it must be fine if they chose it."
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Post by SockMonkey on Oct 29, 2021 14:49:26 GMT
ETA my update: Because I am familiar with the play - it's a HS murder mystery spoof on a very famous play Noises Off - and the imagery used in the play is nonsensically slapstick, it did not even occur to me that anyone would make a connection to lynching. That is definitely my own fault and no question I had blinders on. I didn't select the play, I have nothing to do with the production and there is literally nothing I can do about it other than pass the complaints on to the director/sponsor. That being said, the complaints DID come from people on the same side of the political perspective as the people complaining about CRT and masks, etc. thus the source of my frustration. At the same time as the second complaint came in last night, someone else was calling us communists for supporting the mask mandate so I was in a frustrated place. No excuse, I was plainly wrong, it's just an explanation of where my head was at when I posted. I am embarrassed and appropriately chastened that I was so myopic about the play title. I very much appreciate your reconsideration here. I understand the frustration. Acknowledging our gaps in understanding and our biases helps us do better moving forward.
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Post by questioning on Oct 29, 2021 14:52:35 GMT
Sorry, SockMonkey, I shouldn't have grouped that paragraph together and implied you said all of that. I agree with your new post too. We've got a lot of examples and maybe I shouldn't have inadvertently added another subject to the post. I have to enter a meeting, will be back later.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,030
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Oct 29, 2021 15:28:42 GMT
So, here's the thing. I am on my high school's theatre team, one of the directors. We have very serious and thoughtful conversations about our play selection and its impact on our students, their families, and our community. There are SO MANY options when it comes to murder mystery/play-within-a-play types of shows that I can't see a way to where our team would select a play like this with a title (and likely promotional imagery) that could be perceived as harmful to students and families (especially our Black students and families). While we can't predict each individual's response to such imagery or the title, we would consider how it could be interpreted, ESPECIALLY because the title's play on words depends on prior knowledge of the show "Noises Off," which unless you're a theatre nerd you might not even realize. I haven't read the show, so I can't speak to the content within. There are just many, many plays to be performed out there that I know we would probably not have made this choice, as it's likely not very special literature that would offer something other shows can't. That said, getting two complaints that the title is offensive affords your school's production team to engage in good conversation with the folks who contacted them. They have the opportunity to explain the title and the show, which may allay some fears and concerns. Regarding the library challenges, we are ALSO seeing challenges and FOIAs regarding materials and curriculum. It's tiresome, because much of that is borne out of political action and urging from far-right organizations, not from true community concern or understanding of any of the materials being questioned. More than anything this has given me food for thought because our district doesn't have anything like this. When I first became involved in the booster organization, the organization that puts on the plays was completely student run and the kids chose the shows, did the artwork, promotion, etc. That sponsor stepped down 4 years ago and the new sponsor runs everything by himself. He selects the show, he casts and directs it. Our spring musical is much the same except that the director does consult with his other directors (music and dance) before he makes a show selection. We did Millie my son's senior year and honestly, a lot of us were privately shocked that this show can still be staged but aside from one parent asking if she could put up a booth about human trafficking at our Streetscape, no one in the community said anything about it. TLDR; we don't have any committees or team to discuss this sort of thing. I know the musical director does consider some things (i.e. we will never do a show that includes a stabbing, can't do a show in which young women are asked to play prostitutes, won't do Lion King, etc.) but there is no protocol in place to consider how any given show will impact the student body or community at large.
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