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Post by onelasttime on Feb 1, 2022 23:01:08 GMT
A couple of things.
The Jewish folks I know don’t wear stars on their clothing to identify them as Jewish. One friend use to wear a Star of David on a chain around her neck but I don’t think that is in the same category to what the Nazi’s made those folks do to identify them as Jewish because it was her choice.
Whoopi was wrong in what she said and she acknowledged it and apologized for it.
To put her in the same category as Joe Rogan is wrong IMO. He is deliberately spreading misinformation and Whoopi did not.
As to her being dumb. Do you all know everything? Should she have known the Holocaust was about race? Maybe but read the bolded part below. This guy isn’t wrong.
Here is another perspective about Whoopi’s comments….
“Are Jews a Race?”
“Whoopi Goldberg’s Holocaust comments reflect how Jews don’t fit into Western boxes”
By Yair Rosenberg FEBRUARY 01, 2022
“Yesterday, celebrated actor and TV host Whoopi Goldberg caused a minor meltdown on ABC’s The View when she asserted that the Holocaust “isn’t about race.” Later that day, she joined The Late Show With Stephen Colbert and expanded on these remarks in an uncomfortable exchange, insisting that “the Nazis were white people, and most of the people they were attacking were white people.”
As countless commentators pointed out, this line of thinking is profoundly mistaken. The Nazis were obsessed with race and defined the Jews as their racial inferiors, which is how they justified exterminating them. This is why the Nazis targeted anyone with a Jewish grandparent, regardless of whether the person identified as Jewish or not. Nazism was a blood-based doctrine of racial supremacy, and its consequence was the genocide of the Jews. The very term anti-Semitism, which casts Jews in racial terms, was popularized by a German anti-Jewish activist who wanted to give his hatred a scientific sheen. Race is a social construct, and this is how it was constructed in Nazi Germany and much of Europe.
To her credit, Goldberg apologized last night on Twitter, and then again this morning on The View, alongside Jonathan Greenblatt from the Anti-Defamation League, who talked through the issue with the panelists.
How Do You Define Jews?
Goldberg is not an anti-Semite, but she was confused—and understandably so. In my experience, mistakes like hers often happen because well-meaning people have trouble fitting Jews into their usual boxes. They don’t know how to define Jews, and so they resort to their own frames of reference, like “race” or “religion,” and project them onto the Jewish experience. But Jewish identity doesn’t conform to Western categories, despite centuries of attempts by society to shoehorn it in. This makes sense, because Judaism predates Western categories. It’s not quite a religion, because one can be Jewish regardless of observance or specific belief. (Einstein, for example, was proudly Jewish but not religiously observant.) But it’s also not quite a race, because people can convert in! It’s not merely a culture or an ethnicity, because that leaves out all the religious components. And it’s not simply a nationality, because although Jews do have a homeland and many identify as part of a nation, others do not.
Instead, Judaism is an amalgam of all these things—more like a family (into which one can be adopted) than a sectarian Western faith tradition—and so there’s no great way to classify it in English. A lot of confusion results from attempts to reduce this complexity to something more palatable for contemporary conceptions.
This is just my off-the-cuff explanation. One could write a book about this topic—scholars have—and still not exhaust its nuances. Over the years, smart people have used terms like “civilization” or “peoplehood” or “tribe” to describe the Jewish collective, but because those words are not as straightforward to the average person, I prefer “family.” Whichever label one employs, I hope that the above explanation provides a starting point for those trying to understand the nature of Jewish identity, and helps them avoid the trap of imposing outside ideas on it.
Goldberg was right to apologize, and probably wishes she hadn’t raised this subject. But I’m glad her misstep has provided a public opportunity to address it. We need to have more conversations about these topics going forward, not fewer. Conversation dispels confusion and leads to greater understanding, and given recent events, we need a lot more understanding about Jews in our public discourse.”
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,940
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Feb 1, 2022 23:16:36 GMT
Well, he doesn't know it doesn't come from anti-Semitism. He's offering her that grace.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Feb 1, 2022 23:21:08 GMT
Well, he doesn't know it doesn't come from anti-Semitism. He's offering her that grace. I agree with that. I don't think she was meaning to put Jews down. She's just not a very smart person. I am glad though to hear that for the sake of her viewership she had someone knowledgeable about it on and then proceeded to apologize. Doesnt change my opinion that the show is dumb. And so is she. This isn't her first rodeo.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Feb 1, 2022 23:21:53 GMT
You and are are same general graduation time frame and I think location (west coast) - I went to a pretty crappy high school and was trying to remember if they discussed race vs religion (while agreeing that it was mostly they killed a lot of Jews - nazis bad) - I have an inkling of a memory of white supremacy emphasized but confess to not being sure - it was 30 YEARS ago - surely she's grown a bit since then - especially as she's 20+ years older then either of us. I think that's what's irritating me so much - she's demonstrating absolutely nothing to support a platform to discuss current issues - and she's far from only one on the View. To be clear, I am not excusing her in any way. There’s no excuse for someone with a platform like hers to be so ill-informed. Just saying I can see how people of a certain age who aren’t intellectually curious and haven’t deepened their understanding of history beyond what they were taught high school might believe the Holocaust was about religion, not race. Yes thank you. Well said. ETA: the point though that someone in the public eye has a responsibility to be informed.
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,572
Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
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Post by RosieKat on Feb 1, 2022 23:40:56 GMT
She forgets there was a list, and they were made to wear stars among other things to clearly “mark” them and make the division wider. And that for centuries beforehand, Jews in many locations were required to visually identify themselves as Jews in public. Here's one link (Jewish Badges) that indicates it was first used in the 8th freakin' century. Jews have been segrated for centuries, and marked as less than, so although hopefully most of us know better now, Jews were considered a lesser race. It is true that not everyone that the Nazis singled out was Jewish, nor was it 100% racial in targeting - but even though homosexuals, Catholic priests, and all other kinds of people were also targeted for "nonracial" reasons, it was still to support the objective of the master race. I do think there is some confusion with people at times over what being Jewish means, because as described above, it can mean many different specific things. I have a fair chunk of identifiable Ashkenazi Jew in my genes, but no one I have known in my family was ever a religious Jew. My great-grandfather was (nonpracticing religious) Jewish, but I never knew him. And my grandmother used many Yiddish terms that she grew up hearing - although it wasn't till I was in college that I realized they weren't all German, it was a mix. So, I'm not at all Jewish, except I am a little bit. (I do think lucyg invited me to become an honorary member or something at some point, lol.) HOWEVER. That is neither here nor there, because valid points though they may be, even the most basic education teaches you that Hitler bad. Hitler killed Jews. And Hitler was after creating a supreme master race. (I do believe Whoopi did not have a traditional high school education, but if she hasn't learned at least this much in her long life, then, well, I'll go there and say she is willfully ignorant.) I've certainly learned otherwise in the intervening years, but when I was in high school (class of '91), the emphasis was really on it being about religion. What we were taught about the Holocaust was not nuanced at all - it was very much Nazis bad, killed millions of Jews, and the war ended because AMERICANS. There was a lot of emphasis on the American involvement in the war and little on the rest of the war and its causes. Similar age to you, and I do agree that it was a vastly oversimplified chapter in a history book. And I do agree that the emphasis was on "Jews were sent to concentration camps," and that could perhaps lead you to believe that it was a religious issue. But we did learn about the traditional scapegoating of Jews, and how they were considered racially inferior, even a subspecies, not just by Nazis but historically. So although it maybe wasn't as perfectly clear as it could have been, and it was still kind of a "Cliff's Notes to WWII," we did learn it. (Now, I don't recall learning a single thing about the Pacific theater or Mussolini or Japanese aggression - in fact, I remember wondering how the heck the attack on Pearl Harbor got us into a war with Germany.)
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 1, 2022 23:46:51 GMT
A little bit of irony care of Wikipedia (the link they used is dead, so I couldn't verify it)... About her stage surname, she claimed in 2011, "My mother did not name me Whoopi, but Goldberg is my name—it's part of my family, part of my heritage, just like being black", and "I just know I am Jewish. I practice nothing. I don't go to temple, but I do remember the holidays." Try Karen Johnson... Or that is what heard many many moons ago!!
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Post by elaine on Feb 2, 2022 0:01:48 GMT
A couple of things. The Jewish folks I know don’t wear stars on their clothing to identify them as Jewish. One friend use to wear a Star of David on a chain around her neck but I don’t think that is in the same category to what the Nazi’s made those folks do to identify them as Jewish because it was her choice. Whoopi was wrong in what she said and she acknowledged it and apologized for it. To put her in the same category as Joe Rogan is wrong IMO. He is deliberately spreading misinformation and Whoopi did not. As to her being dumb. Do you all know everything? Should she have known the Holocaust was about race? Maybe but read the bolded part below. This guy isn’t wrong. Here is another perspective about Whoopi’s comments…. “ Are Jews a Race?”“Whoopi Goldberg’s Holocaust comments reflect how Jews don’t fit into Western boxes” By Yair Rosenberg FEBRUARY 01, 2022 “Yesterday, celebrated actor and TV host Whoopi Goldberg caused a minor meltdown on ABC’s The View when she asserted that the Holocaust “isn’t about race.” Later that day, she joined The Late Show With Stephen Colbert and expanded on these remarks in an uncomfortable exchange, insisting that “the Nazis were white people, and most of the people they were attacking were white people.” As countless commentators pointed out, this line of thinking is profoundly mistaken. The Nazis were obsessed with race and defined the Jews as their racial inferiors, which is how they justified exterminating them. This is why the Nazis targeted anyone with a Jewish grandparent, regardless of whether the person identified as Jewish or not. Nazism was a blood-based doctrine of racial supremacy, and its consequence was the genocide of the Jews. The very term anti-Semitism, which casts Jews in racial terms, was popularized by a German anti-Jewish activist who wanted to give his hatred a scientific sheen. Race is a social construct, and this is how it was constructed in Nazi Germany and much of Europe. To her credit, Goldberg apologized last night on Twitter, and then again this morning on The View, alongside Jonathan Greenblatt from the Anti-Defamation League, who talked through the issue with the panelists. How Do You Define Jews? Goldberg is not an anti-Semite, but she was confused—and understandably so. In my experience, mistakes like hers often happen because well-meaning people have trouble fitting Jews into their usual boxes. They don’t know how to define Jews, and so they resort to their own frames of reference, like “race” or “religion,” and project them onto the Jewish experience. But Jewish identity doesn’t conform to Western categories, despite centuries of attempts by society to shoehorn it in. This makes sense, because Judaism predates Western categories. It’s not quite a religion, because one can be Jewish regardless of observance or specific belief. (Einstein, for example, was proudly Jewish but not religiously observant.) But it’s also not quite a race, because people can convert in! It’s not merely a culture or an ethnicity, because that leaves out all the religious components. And it’s not simply a nationality, because although Jews do have a homeland and many identify as part of a nation, others do not.Instead, Judaism is an amalgam of all these things—more like a family (into which one can be adopted) than a sectarian Western faith tradition—and so there’s no great way to classify it in English. A lot of confusion results from attempts to reduce this complexity to something more palatable for contemporary conceptions.This is just my off-the-cuff explanation. One could write a book about this topic—scholars have—and still not exhaust its nuances. Over the years, smart people have used terms like “civilization” or “peoplehood” or “tribe” to describe the Jewish collective, but because those words are not as straightforward to the average person, I prefer “family.” Whichever label one employs, I hope that the above explanation provides a starting point for those trying to understand the nature of Jewish identity, and helps them avoid the trap of imposing outside ideas on it. Goldberg was right to apologize, and probably wishes she hadn’t raised this subject. But I’m glad her misstep has provided a public opportunity to address it. We need to have more conversations about these topics going forward, not fewer. Conversation dispels confusion and leads to greater understanding, and given recent events, we need a lot more understanding about Jews in our public discourse.”
Meh. Here’s an article by Kareem Abdul Jabaar that was written in 2020, but certainly fits with today’s discussion: www.hollywoodreporter.com/lifestyle/lifestyle-news/kareem-abdul-jabbar-is-outrage-anti-semitism-sports-hollywood-1303210/
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Post by pjaye on Feb 2, 2022 0:03:43 GMT
I had the TV on and when I saw she was on Colbert, I switched it off.
She has a lot of really screwed up ideas and I think all that dope smoking has addled her brain. She defended Mel Gibson over and over insisting he wasn't a racist when he had his drunken rant about about Jewish people, and he's been reported to have used the term "oven dodgers" on more than one occasion. Even when he screamed at his wife over the phone that he was going to get a black man to rape her, Whoopi still said he was her friend and not a racist (or an abuser)
She also thought it was understandable for Chris Brown to beat up Rhianna because "we don't know what happened and sometimes the women starts it and then the man just defends himself" basically it is totally OK for men to hit back at women.
She seems so desperate to keep her foot in the door of Hollywood that she defends every celebrity, no famous person is a racist, or a rapist or an abuser or a substance abuser according to her. All celebs are innocent, misunderstood individuals and "we just don't know the whole story"
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 2, 2022 0:42:04 GMT
A couple of things. The Jewish folks I know don’t wear stars on their clothing to identify them as Jewish. One friend use to wear a Star of David on a chain around her neck but I don’t think that is in the same category to what the Nazi’s made those folks do to identify them as Jewish because it was her choice. Whoopi was wrong in what she said and she acknowledged it and apologized for it. To put her in the same category as Joe Rogan is wrong IMO. He is deliberately spreading misinformation and Whoopi did not. As to her being dumb. Do you all know everything? Should she have known the Holocaust was about race? Maybe but read the bolded part below. This guy isn’t wrong. Here is another perspective about Whoopi’s comments…. “ Are Jews a Race?”“Whoopi Goldberg’s Holocaust comments reflect how Jews don’t fit into Western boxes” By Yair Rosenberg FEBRUARY 01, 2022 “Yesterday, celebrated actor and TV host Whoopi Goldberg caused a minor meltdown on ABC’s The View when she asserted that the Holocaust “isn’t about race.” Later that day, she joined The Late Show With Stephen Colbert and expanded on these remarks in an uncomfortable exchange, insisting that “the Nazis were white people, and most of the people they were attacking were white people.” As countless commentators pointed out, this line of thinking is profoundly mistaken. The Nazis were obsessed with race and defined the Jews as their racial inferiors, which is how they justified exterminating them. This is why the Nazis targeted anyone with a Jewish grandparent, regardless of whether the person identified as Jewish or not. Nazism was a blood-based doctrine of racial supremacy, and its consequence was the genocide of the Jews. The very term anti-Semitism, which casts Jews in racial terms, was popularized by a German anti-Jewish activist who wanted to give his hatred a scientific sheen. Race is a social construct, and this is how it was constructed in Nazi Germany and much of Europe. To her credit, Goldberg apologized last night on Twitter, and then again this morning on The View, alongside Jonathan Greenblatt from the Anti-Defamation League, who talked through the issue with the panelists. How Do You Define Jews? Goldberg is not an anti-Semite, but she was confused—and understandably so. In my experience, mistakes like hers often happen because well-meaning people have trouble fitting Jews into their usual boxes. They don’t know how to define Jews, and so they resort to their own frames of reference, like “race” or “religion,” and project them onto the Jewish experience. But Jewish identity doesn’t conform to Western categories, despite centuries of attempts by society to shoehorn it in. This makes sense, because Judaism predates Western categories. It’s not quite a religion, because one can be Jewish regardless of observance or specific belief. (Einstein, for example, was proudly Jewish but not religiously observant.) But it’s also not quite a race, because people can convert in! It’s not merely a culture or an ethnicity, because that leaves out all the religious components. And it’s not simply a nationality, because although Jews do have a homeland and many identify as part of a nation, others do not.Instead, Judaism is an amalgam of all these things—more like a family (into which one can be adopted) than a sectarian Western faith tradition—and so there’s no great way to classify it in English. A lot of confusion results from attempts to reduce this complexity to something more palatable for contemporary conceptions.This is just my off-the-cuff explanation. One could write a book about this topic—scholars have—and still not exhaust its nuances. Over the years, smart people have used terms like “civilization” or “peoplehood” or “tribe” to describe the Jewish collective, but because those words are not as straightforward to the average person, I prefer “family.” Whichever label one employs, I hope that the above explanation provides a starting point for those trying to understand the nature of Jewish identity, and helps them avoid the trap of imposing outside ideas on it. Goldberg was right to apologize, and probably wishes she hadn’t raised this subject. But I’m glad her misstep has provided a public opportunity to address it. We need to have more conversations about these topics going forward, not fewer. Conversation dispels confusion and leads to greater understanding, and given recent events, we need a lot more understanding about Jews in our public discourse.”
Meh. Here’s an article by Kareem Abdul Jabaar that was written in 2020, but certainly fits with today’s discussion: www.hollywoodreporter.com/lifestyle/lifestyle-news/kareem-abdul-jabbar-is-outrage-anti-semitism-sports-hollywood-1303210/That was thought provoking and raises some very good points, thanks.
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Post by MichyM on Feb 2, 2022 0:55:29 GMT
A couple of things. The Jewish folks I know don’t wear stars on their clothing to identify them as Jewish. One friend use to wear a Star of David on a chain around her neck but I don’t think that is in the same category to what the Nazi’s made those folks do to identify them as Jewish because it was her choice. Whoopi was wrong in what she said and she acknowledged it and apologized for it. To put her in the same category as Joe Rogan is wrong IMO. He is deliberately spreading misinformation and Whoopi did not. As to her being dumb. Do you all know everything? Should she have known the Holocaust was about race? Maybe but read the bolded part below. This guy isn’t wrong. Here is another perspective about Whoopi’s comments…. “ Are Jews a Race?”“Whoopi Goldberg’s Holocaust comments reflect how Jews don’t fit into Western boxes” By Yair Rosenberg FEBRUARY 01, 2022 “Yesterday, celebrated actor and TV host Whoopi Goldberg caused a minor meltdown on ABC’s The View when she asserted that the Holocaust “isn’t about race.” Later that day, she joined The Late Show With Stephen Colbert and expanded on these remarks in an uncomfortable exchange, insisting that “the Nazis were white people, and most of the people they were attacking were white people.” As countless commentators pointed out, this line of thinking is profoundly mistaken. The Nazis were obsessed with race and defined the Jews as their racial inferiors, which is how they justified exterminating them. This is why the Nazis targeted anyone with a Jewish grandparent, regardless of whether the person identified as Jewish or not. Nazism was a blood-based doctrine of racial supremacy, and its consequence was the genocide of the Jews. The very term anti-Semitism, which casts Jews in racial terms, was popularized by a German anti-Jewish activist who wanted to give his hatred a scientific sheen. Race is a social construct, and this is how it was constructed in Nazi Germany and much of Europe. To her credit, Goldberg apologized last night on Twitter, and then again this morning on The View, alongside Jonathan Greenblatt from the Anti-Defamation League, who talked through the issue with the panelists. How Do You Define Jews? Goldberg is not an anti-Semite, but she was confused—and understandably so. In my experience, mistakes like hers often happen because well-meaning people have trouble fitting Jews into their usual boxes. They don’t know how to define Jews, and so they resort to their own frames of reference, like “race” or “religion,” and project them onto the Jewish experience. But Jewish identity doesn’t conform to Western categories, despite centuries of attempts by society to shoehorn it in. This makes sense, because Judaism predates Western categories. It’s not quite a religion, because one can be Jewish regardless of observance or specific belief. (Einstein, for example, was proudly Jewish but not religiously observant.) But it’s also not quite a race, because people can convert in! It’s not merely a culture or an ethnicity, because that leaves out all the religious components. And it’s not simply a nationality, because although Jews do have a homeland and many identify as part of a nation, others do not.Instead, Judaism is an amalgam of all these things—more like a family (into which one can be adopted) than a sectarian Western faith tradition—and so there’s no great way to classify it in English. A lot of confusion results from attempts to reduce this complexity to something more palatable for contemporary conceptions.This is just my off-the-cuff explanation. One could write a book about this topic—scholars have—and still not exhaust its nuances. Over the years, smart people have used terms like “civilization” or “peoplehood” or “tribe” to describe the Jewish collective, but because those words are not as straightforward to the average person, I prefer “family.” Whichever label one employs, I hope that the above explanation provides a starting point for those trying to understand the nature of Jewish identity, and helps them avoid the trap of imposing outside ideas on it. Goldberg was right to apologize, and probably wishes she hadn’t raised this subject. But I’m glad her misstep has provided a public opportunity to address it. We need to have more conversations about these topics going forward, not fewer. Conversation dispels confusion and leads to greater understanding, and given recent events, we need a lot more understanding about Jews in our public discourse.”
Meh. Here’s an article by Kareem Abdul Jabaar that was written in 2020, but certainly fits with today’s discussion: www.hollywoodreporter.com/lifestyle/lifestyle-news/kareem-abdul-jabbar-is-outrage-anti-semitism-sports-hollywood-1303210/I agree with meh. Just sounds like some one apologizing for Goldberg’s ignorance. And while I hadn’t seen the article you linked before just reading it now, anti-semitic and generally negative remarks about Jewish people are STILL made by people who get “air time” much too frequently. Each time one of them comes to light, it blows my mind…I honestly don’t understand how the remarks, and people who say them get a pass 🤷🏼♀️
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Post by mom on Feb 2, 2022 1:08:08 GMT
OMG yes I saw that. Unbelievable. She needs to go, she says crap upon crap upon crap. Like, 'it wasn't 'rape, rape' in regards to Roman Polanski. I can't stand her. My thoughts exactly. She needs to go, but I doubt she will.
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Gem Girl
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 2,686
Jun 29, 2014 19:29:52 GMT
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Post by Gem Girl on Feb 2, 2022 1:13:39 GMT
It perplexes me that some people think fame imparts a person with wisdom. Often, it's the famous person himself, mostly. But, people who get their political news from daytime TV gabfests might be impressed.
I might add that wealth worshipping is equally silly, and that the wealthy often think they've obtained intrinsic wisdom as a result, too. It's tempting and easy to ignore inheritance, connections, and luck after you've availed yourself of them.
Could this be how we wound up with TFG in the Oval Office? Since he played a successful businessman on TV, he must be really smart! Umm, maybe....
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Post by mcjunkin on Feb 2, 2022 2:12:12 GMT
She really is that dumb. And clueless. And self-absorbed. Have not read all the replies, so this may have already been discussed.
Her name is a stage name. Not originally Whoopi OR Goldberg. Interesting story there.
From Wikipedia (yes, I know, but easily verifiable I imagine if one cared to, and I have heard it from other sources way before this kerfuffle):
About her stage surname, she claimed in 2011, "My mother did not name me Whoopi, but Goldberg is my name—it's part of my family, part of my heritage, just like being black", and "I just know I am Jewish. I practice nothing. I don't go to temple, but I do remember the holidays."[16] She has stated that "people would say 'Come on, are you Jewish?' And I always say 'Would you ask me that if I was white? I bet not.'"[16] One account recalls that her mother, Emma Johnson, thought the family's original surname was "not Jewish enough" for her daughter to become a star.[16] Researcher Henry Louis Gates Jr. found that all of Goldberg's traceable ancestors were African Americans, that she had no known German or Jewish ancestry, and that none of her ancestors were named Goldberg.[12] Results of a DNA test, revealed in the 2006 PBS documentary African American Lives, traced part of her ancestry to the Papel and Bayote people of modern-day Guinea-Bissau. Her admixture test indicates that she is of 92 percent sub-Saharan African origin and of 8 percent European origin.[17]
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Post by lucyg on Feb 2, 2022 2:18:56 GMT
I think that the concept of race vs. religion requires a fairly nuanced understanding of the Holocaust, the kind that you might get from a college class on modern Jewish history, or from pursuing the subject on your own. I wouldn’t expect most people have learned that much detail in a standard high school history class.
I’m not defending Whoopi and I don’t know where she stands as far as anti-Semitism goes. I don’t watch The View and I'm not much of a celebrity follower. (I did think she claimed years ago that Goldberg was an ex-husband and she kept the name.) ETA I guess that part is WRONG.
I just don’t think that one statement on its own proves that she’s either stupid or anti-Semitic.
Off to read the KAJ article. I think he’s brilliant.
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Post by hop2 on Feb 2, 2022 2:22:35 GMT
I think there genuinely are a lot of people who don't realize to what extent people who are now constructed as "white" historically were constructed as "nonwhite." I don't know if she is one of those people or what. Between this crap and the "being told to vaccinate to go to Applebee's is just like the Holocaust" crap, it's clear to me that we need better Holocaust education, stat. Nope, can’t have that, it makes kids uncomfortable… or so I’ve been told
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,306
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Feb 2, 2022 2:54:27 GMT
ABC has just suspended her for 2 weeks.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 2, 2022 3:13:03 GMT
ABC has just suspended her for 2 weeks. Well, maybe this will end up doing some good. I guarantee that if she didn’t know that the Germans plotted to make a master race, there are many more people who also did not know that. And maybe they will learn something. We can always hope. This is me trying to be optimistic. I am still troubled by it though. It seems like this should be common knowledge. Doesn’t it?
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Post by librarylady on Feb 2, 2022 3:15:42 GMT
She has been placed on leave for 2 weeks to give her time to reflect.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 2, 2022 3:33:50 GMT
It perplexes me that some people think fame imparts a person with wisdom. Often, it's the famous person himself, mostly. But, people who get their political news from daytime TV gabfests might be impressed. I might add that wealth worshipping is equally silly, and that the wealthy often think they've obtained intrinsic wisdom as a result, too. It's tempting and easy to ignore inheritance, connections, and luck after you've availed yourself of them. Could this be how we wound up with TFG in the Oval Office? Since he played a successful businessman on TV, he must be really smart! Umm, maybe.... I absolutely believe The Apprentice played a substantial role in him winning the Presidency.
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Post by MichyM on Feb 2, 2022 3:35:45 GMT
ABC has just suspended her for 2 weeks. Well, maybe this will end up doing some good. I guarantee that if she didn’t know that the Germans plotted to make a master race, there are many more people who also did not know that. And maybe they will learn something. We can always hope. This is me trying to be optimistic. I am still troubled by it though. It seems like this should be common knowledge. Doesn’t it? Yep. It’s a pretty simple concept. And I think it’s a result of people being lazy and not paying attention to history.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Feb 2, 2022 3:36:51 GMT
I think that the concept of race vs. religion requires a fairly nuanced understanding of the Holocaust, the kind that you might get from a college class on modern Jewish history, or from pursuing the subject on your own. I wouldn’t expect most people have learned that much detail in a standard high school history class. I’m not defending Whoopi and I don’t know where she stands as far as anti-Semitism goes. I don’t watch The View and I'm not much of a celebrity follower. (I did think she claimed years ago that Goldberg was an ex-husband and she kept the name.) ETA I guess that part is WRONG. I just don’t think that one statement on its own proves that she’s either stupid or anti-Semitic. Off to read the KAJ article. I think he’s brilliant. It’s a really good article, I was really impressed by its thoughtfulness yet calling out what *is* absolute BS stance.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 2, 2022 3:40:39 GMT
I think that the concept of race vs. religion requires a fairly nuanced understanding of the Holocaust, the kind that you might get from a college class on modern Jewish history, or from pursuing the subject on your own. I wouldn’t expect most people have learned that much detail in a standard high school history class. I’m not defending Whoopi and I don’t know where she stands as far as anti-Semitism goes. I don’t watch The View and I'm not much of a celebrity follower. (I did think she claimed years ago that Goldberg was an ex-husband and she kept the name.) ETA I guess that part is WRONG. I just don’t think that one statement on its own proves that she’s either stupid or anti-Semitic. Off to read the KAJ article. I think he’s brilliant. I just can't give her a pass - I went to a really, really crappy high school and went to college for engineering with a minor in economics which means I really missed a ton of classes in history and other classes to convey the nuance as I was taking fluid dynamics - and still I managed to figure out what the hell was going on. I don't pretend to be particularly well educated on WWII - I have the very typical education of a 40 something who read a few books and watched a few moves - I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination but am still appalled that she's on national television spouting this bullshit.
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Post by pjaye on Feb 2, 2022 5:09:37 GMT
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Post by cakediva on Feb 2, 2022 13:08:04 GMT
Wading into this cautiously - because when you know better you do better.
NOT excusing her in any way, and she deserves the suspension. But I'm college educated and was actually sitting in class watching as the wall came down. I learned the horrors of the holocaust in high school and never once thought it was made up or any of those stupid conspiracy theories. Part of going to a Catholic high school was having to take religion class every year to graduate, and one year it was a World Religions class. It wasn't just a "day" of learning another faith, we spent weeks on each of the major ones.
But raising my hand to say I never equated being Jewish as being a separate race. I always considered it a religion. Like I was brought up Catholic, but I don't consider that my race, but my religion (although not any more). My privilege is showing - I'm a middle class, married white woman.
Thanks Peas for enlightening me. I now know better.
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zztop11
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Oct 10, 2014 0:54:51 GMT
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Post by zztop11 on Feb 2, 2022 13:31:02 GMT
I'm wondering why they didn't fire her? Do you think she helps keep their ratings up? Also, I wonder why she chose the name "Goldberg" (which is an inherently Jewish name) for her stage name? For a long time, I wondered if she was Jewish.
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Post by christine58 on Feb 2, 2022 13:34:52 GMT
I'm wondering why they didn't fire her? Do you think she helps keep their ratings up? Also, I wonder why she chose the name "Goldberg" (which is an inherently Jewish name) for her stage name? For a long time, I wondered if she was Jewish. Something tells me this will happen or she resigns.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Feb 2, 2022 13:55:35 GMT
I only know what I’ve just skimmed in this thread but - unfortunately - I suspect she’s applying very black and white thinking to the discussion - both figuratively and literally. Literally, she’s a Black woman seemingly using her own lens to draw conclusions about the interplay of appearance and discrimination.
I don’t think we can always assume that people who belong to an oppressed group understand the struggles of another oppressed group, especially if, accurately or not, they feel more-or-differently oppressed.
And there are resentments and politics among oppressed communities. Related to the Holocaust, I’ve always found the subject of victim politics (for ignorance of a better phrase) interesting, e.g. Romani lobbying to be represented on the Holocaust Museum board…or controversies over whether Holocaust memorials in Europe include mention of all groups who were victims of the genocide. Complicated stuff.
(Also, I hate that show Whoopi is on with the heat of a thousand suns. Last time I had jury duty, I asked to leave rather than hear those women prattling on and interrupting each other with their ignorance. The jury supervisor opened a whole other ginormous jury room just for me!)
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Feb 2, 2022 14:27:00 GMT
I just read about the suspension. I don’t agree she should be fired.
This is all in “Race is a social construct” territory. This woman verbalized her own thoughts about what race is. Unfortunately, and ironically, it was within the context of denying the Nazi’s own race calculus that was based on their own horrific (and self-superior) social construct about race.
Does she she need to learn? Yes, along with plenty of others. Should she be fired? I don’t think so.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 2, 2022 14:39:42 GMT
I want to agree! But I have met so many people over the years who genuinely were confused it seems and thought that the Holocaust was about religion. I've certainly learned otherwise in the intervening years, but when I was in high school (class of '91), the emphasis was really on it being about religion. What we were taught about the Holocaust was not nuanced at all - it was very much Nazis bad, killed millions of Jews, and the war ended because AMERICANS. There was a lot of emphasis on the American involvement in the war and little on the rest of the war and its causes. I am sure when I graduated HS, I could have told you a lot more about specific WWII battles and American generals than anything else about the era. They didn't ignore or deny the Holocaust - they just did not explain it in any detail. It was the mass murder of millions of Jews, the end. FWIW, I got a 5 on the APUSH exam, so... 😭 American education. Isn't the emphasis still on religion? The main focus of people who talk about WWII, Nazi's and learning from history all talk about how Jews were discriminated against and tortured. Yes, the Nazi's wanted a "master, pure race" but a big part of that was exterminating Jews. To me, the only thing that made them "different" was their religion. I have read many, many books about WWII times and most of them were told from a Jewish perspective, not necessarily overarching themes of white supremacy. That being said, I can kind of see what Whoopi was trying to get at with some parts of her comment, but other parts are a little confusing to me.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,306
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Feb 2, 2022 14:45:14 GMT
I'm wondering why they didn't fire her? Do you think she helps keep their ratings up? Also, I wonder why she chose the name "Goldberg" (which is an inherently Jewish name) for her stage name? For a long time, I wondered if she was Jewish. She just signed a 4 year multi-million contract so I’m guessing that’s why she didn’t get fired.
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