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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 21, 2022 4:01:33 GMT
I think we've already covered this. No one with a walker was injured or trampled by a horse. You are posting misinformation aj2hall.
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 21, 2022 4:08:02 GMT
Except she wasn’t trampled. The Fox “reporter” who spread that has walked it back. But I know you won’t let that get in the way of continuing to spread disinformation. I have no idea what reporter you're referring to. I didn't see it on FOX. If you care to walk this back, that's on you.
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Post by sideways on Feb 21, 2022 4:32:33 GMT
Except she wasn’t trampled. The Fox “reporter” who spread that has walked it back. But I know you won’t let that get in the way of continuing to spread disinformation. I have no idea what reporter you're referring to. I didn't see it on FOX. If you care to walk this back, that's on you. Colliding and trampling are two different things. Nobody was stepped on by a horse. Both people involved walked away. Unless you’re calling the cop a liar. Which you probably are because it doesn’t fit your narrative. ottawa.citynews.ca/police-beat/woman-injured-officer-horseback-ottawa-protest-5084656
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sudsy
Full Member
Posts: 146
Sept 15, 2019 12:55:18 GMT
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Post by sudsy on Feb 21, 2022 4:37:24 GMT
That's a great question. Personally I don't think he had the justification. This is from Wikipedia: " The Canadian Civil Liberties Association criticized the invocation of the Act, saying that the "high and clear" threshold for invocation – that the situation cannot be resolved through the regular application of existing laws – had not been met, and that normalization of emergency legislation would erode democracy and civil liberties.[69] On February 17, it filed for judicial review of decision of the government's decision to enact the Emergencies Act, claiming the invocation was unjustified and unconstitutional; the Canadian Constitution Foundation announced intent to sue on similar grounds."
And this is generally acceptable to Canadians? It was just shocking to me considering it’s Canada, one of the most moderate countries. IMO, that move is draconian in every respect and not at all a proportionate response. Like I said, a civil war, a coup, terrorism, and the like…yes. (I would think those illustrate the threshold to meet.) But not against those who are for the most part non-violently exercising free speech as is their right. It’s no wonder your Civil Liberties Assn is pushing back. However, I don’t wish to give the impression I support illegal occupations and blockades (I didn’t support them when they were occurring in the US even for a cause I wish to advance). And I’m actually a proponent of vaccine mandates. But the suspension of civil rights and a gov’t seizing protestors’ bank accounts and assets as punishment without due process would never, ever be acceptable to me. (In the US, ordering a financial institution to freeze someone's account without a warrant or probable cause is unreasonable search and seizure in violation of our Constitution.) This might be an impertinent assumption on my part because I’m not a Canadian, but if the tables were turned and it’s a conservative gov’t that does this, I would imagine liberals wouldn’t tolerate it. My position is that I wouldn’t tolerate it regardless of which party is in power, especially if the basis is patently ideological. But my opinion, obviously, is of no relevance, and it’s for Canadians to ultimately decide whether this is something they can live with or not. Once a precedent like this is set and it’s the opposition in power next time who wishes to do the same, there might be some regret. Yes, all true. What I find puzzling is that our Prime Minister invoked this act without so much as talking to the protesters. He refused. Anyway, it will be voted upon by the MP's tomorrow and it will be interesting to see the result.
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Post by sideways on Feb 21, 2022 4:53:58 GMT
Except she wasn’t trampled. The Fox “reporter” who spread that has walked it back. But I know you won’t let that get in the way of continuing to spread disinformation. I have no idea what reporter you're referring to. I didn't see it on FOX. If you care to walk this back, that's on you. I also posted this one the other thread. Also, it’s hilarious that you think that video proves that people were trampled. Did you watch it? It doesn’t show that at all. It shows a guy who MIGHT collide with a horse, but it doesn’t show him falling. It shows another horse behind the first and then the video cuts to two people laying on the ground. Yes, they collided with the horses and yes, they fell. That much was confirmed. But nothing in that video shows them being trampled or stepped on by the horses. I’m almost embarrassed for you. Almost. ETA - Watched it again. Not “trampled”. Care to walk back YOUR misinformation?
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 21, 2022 5:17:14 GMT
And this is generally acceptable to Canadians? It was just shocking to me considering it’s Canada, one of the most moderate countries. IMO, that move is draconian in every respect and not at all a proportionate response. Like I said, a civil war, a coup, terrorism, and the like…yes. (I would think those illustrate the threshold to meet.) But not against those who are for the most part non-violently exercising free speech as is their right. It’s no wonder your Civil Liberties Assn is pushing back. However, I don’t wish to give the impression I support illegal occupations and blockades (I didn’t support them when they were occurring in the US even for a cause I wish to advance). And I’m actually a proponent of vaccine mandates. But the suspension of civil rights and a gov’t seizing protestors’ bank accounts and assets as punishment without due process would never, ever be acceptable to me. (In the US, ordering a financial institution to freeze someone's account without a warrant or probable cause is unreasonable search and seizure in violation of our Constitution.) This might be an impertinent assumption on my part because I’m not a Canadian, but if the tables were turned and it’s a conservative gov’t that does this, I would imagine liberals wouldn’t tolerate it. My position is that I wouldn’t tolerate it regardless of which party is in power, especially if the basis is patently ideological. But my opinion, obviously, is of no relevance, and it’s for Canadians to ultimately decide whether this is something they can live with or not. Once a precedent like this is set and it’s the opposition in power next time who wishes to do the same, there might be some regret. Yes, all true. What I find puzzling is that our Prime Minister invoked this act without so much as talking to the protesters. He refused. Anyway, it will be voted upon by the MP's tomorrow and it will be interesting to see the result. The protestors accused him of treason. And threatened his safety - he and his family had to move to a safe location. And you think he should have negotiated with them? And negotiated what exactly? We've already covered that Trudeau doesn't have the authority to change provincial covid restrictions. And truckers have to be vaccinated to enter the US. Do you expect Trudeau to fix that? The Canadian vaccination requirement to cross back into Canada is kind of irrelevant if they have to be vaccinated to enter the US. www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60190452
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Feb 21, 2022 5:33:03 GMT
Yes, all true. What I find puzzling is that our Prime Minister invoked this act without so much as talking to the protesters. He refused. Anyway, it will be voted upon by the MP's tomorrow and it will be interesting to see the result. The protestors accused him of treason. And threatened his safety - he and his family had to move to a safe location. And you think he should have negotiated with them? And negotiated what exactly? We've already covered that Trudeau doesn't have the authority to change provincial covid restrictions. And truckers have to be vaccinated to enter the US. Do you expect Trudeau to fix that? www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60190452Yep. Conservatives believe that only they know what’s right or best, and that everyone must bend to their will.
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Post by pixiechick on Feb 21, 2022 5:47:59 GMT
No, immigrants and refugees are eligible for vaccines after they've been granted admittance or refugee status. You don't need a green card to get a vaccine, as we've said multiple times in this thread. You're still suggesting immigrants and refugees should be singled out for a vaccine mandate? That's what I'm saying... you don't NEED a green card to get vaccinated, but they are not MANDATED to get vaccinated until they get one and they are not eligible to get the green card for a whole year. So there's a whole year of them possibly moving around the country unvaccinated. THAT'S what I'm saying. No, I'm not suggesting immigrants and refugees should be singled out for a vaccine mandate. What i AM saying is the mandates are what YOU believe in and yet, you DON'T have a problem with possibly millions of people wandering around possibly infecting everyone - IF they've come here illegally. Why is that? Now that you're speaking to me again... Why is it that you can't answer that aj2hall? Why can't you back up your claims?
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Post by pixiechick on Feb 21, 2022 6:03:37 GMT
Show us where someone on the right here posted "undeniable proof" and was uniformly rebuffed by the left. I don't know if she did, but I will... Here's just one recent of endless examples... This thread. Page 29, 14th post down. My post. In response to sideways saying "TFG had no plan whatsoever to get vaccines into arms. None. Zero. Zilch." 21 down. My post. 24 down. My post. 26 down. My post. 28 down. My post.
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 21, 2022 7:44:23 GMT
I've only read bits and pieces of both of these protest threads. One thing I did notice is that there seems to be some confusion just why people are protesting and just what rights they have to do so.
Let's go back to the fall of 2016, when an old recording was released just before the presidential election of Donald Trump making a disgusting remark.
Women didn't like it. OK.
Many women dressed in cute little pink hats, made signs, stomped about out in the streets making as much noise as they could because they didn't like it. OK.
They had the right to make their opinions heard. No one created a national emergency mandate that allowed law enforcement in riot gear to push them around while on horseback. No officers advanced on completely peaceful crowds and grabbed up anyone who stumbled and fell behind their line. No one was treated very roughly despite obvious infirmities. (There are many more videos than I linked to that show excessive manhandling in Canada.)
During Pussygate women and men were free to complain just as much as they wanted to. They were also free to harass anyone who walked by them who simply looked like they may have been a Trump supporter, and they left a great deal of litter behind in their wake.
Not that their protests could change the words that one man said in an unguarded moment years before. But that's OK. They wanted to protest and that they did in freedom.
This current protest is made up of mostly Canadian citizens. Front and center are big rig truck drivers, but that's not all who have been out there protesting and/or supporting the protestors.
People who's lives have been sidetracked for two very long and difficult years have been in Ottawa seeking the leader of their country to listen to their grievances.
No protester's bank accounts were frozen during Pussygate. Their means of earning a living weren't threatened. They got wonderful acknowledgement in the press. No national emergency was demanded by their government despite comments as inflammatory as Madonna thinking about blowing up the White House on stage before a large crowd.
Since this current Canadian protest has begun, actual changes have begun to be implemented in various provinces regarding Covid restrictions and vaccine passports.
Those are real changes that most of us in the US have had the benefit of for months to the better part of two years.
How selfish to demand to be allowed the freedom to stomp our feet, yell and scream in the public square while wearing cute pink hats over a long-ago comment that we didn't like and didn't directly affect us and then dismiss in the most diminishing ways we can think of the hardships families face under ever more stringent government mandates.
You want to hear disgusting comments made by a sitting leader of a country about his own people? You might try listening to Trudeau. Anyone who disagrees with him over his mandates is unapologetically slurred.
All those "white supremacists" that have been protesting come from every racial background with skin all the shades humans come in. They are of every religion and they came from all over the world to live in a peaceful country that they thought ensured them particular freedoms.
The PEACEFUL protest in Ottawa is one group. They made a conscious decision to embrace their fellow Canadians in peace, joy and love. They sang their national anthem and flew their national flags on the ends of their hockey sticks. They filled the food banks in Ottawa to such a degree that they had to expand outward to fill even more. They stood guard over the monument dedicated to the fallen in past wars and kept it shoveled free of snow. And they continued to seek an audience with the leader of their country so that their grievances could be heard. (I'm using past tense because this was the behavior that Trudeau considered necessitated an Emergency Mandate.)
I was watching a crowd live as first they sang the national anthem and then began calling to the police, "We love you. We love you. We love you..." when BANG! BANG! Two loud flashbangs were exploded just a couple of feet at most in front of them. Because there's nothing more dangerous than a bunch of Canadians saying "We love you" while waving the flag and singing their national anthem, apparently.
There are bad apples in every bunch. You pick those out and take care of them. You don't call every other apple rotten.
But with people, that's different. You find a few miserable people, spread their photos and comments around the Internet - never mind if your stories have mistakes - and then proceed to slur every other person who you in some way perceive may not fully agree with you as every miserable name you can come up with.
Just wait.
Those truckers and nurses and doctors that you hailed as heroes one day and than despised the next may be you before long.
What will people say about you?
Do you want people to treat you the way that you have treated them?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 9:10:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2022 10:58:38 GMT
And this is generally acceptable to Canadians? It was just shocking to me considering it’s Canada, one of the most moderate countries. IMO, that move is draconian in every respect and not at all a proportionate response. Like I said, a civil war, a coup, terrorism, and the like…yes. (I would think those illustrate the threshold to meet.) But not against those who are for the most part non-violently exercising free speech as is their right. It’s no wonder your Civil Liberties Assn is pushing back. However, I don’t wish to give the impression I support illegal occupations and blockades (I didn’t support them when they were occurring in the US even for a cause I wish to advance). And I’m actually a proponent of vaccine mandates. But the suspension of civil rights and a gov’t seizing protestors’ bank accounts and assets as punishment without due process would never, ever be acceptable to me. (In the US, ordering a financial institution to freeze someone's account without a warrant or probable cause is unreasonable search and seizure in violation of our Constitution.) This might be an impertinent assumption on my part because I’m not a Canadian, but if the tables were turned and it’s a conservative gov’t that does this, I would imagine liberals wouldn’t tolerate it. My position is that I wouldn’t tolerate it regardless of which party is in power, especially if the basis is patently ideological. But my opinion, obviously, is of no relevance, and it’s for Canadians to ultimately decide whether this is something they can live with or not. Once a precedent like this is set and it’s the opposition in power next time who wishes to do the same, there might be some regret. Yes, all true. What I find puzzling is that our Prime Minister invoked this act without so much as talking to the protesters. He refused. Anyway, it will be voted upon by the MP's tomorrow and it will be interesting to see the result. Maybe it would be better if you linked the actual Act from the government website rather than get your info from Wikipedia - far more reliable to get to the facts of what it exactly covers IMO.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 21, 2022 12:17:13 GMT
I've only read bits and pieces of both of these protest threads. One thing I did notice is that there seems to be some confusion just why people are protesting and just what rights they have to do so. Let's go back to the fall of 2016, when an old recording was released just before the presidential election of Donald Trump making a disgusting remark. Women didn't like it. OK. Many women dressed in cute little pink hats, made signs, stomped about out in the streets making as much noise as they could because they didn't like it. OK. They had the right to make their opinions heard. No one created a national emergency mandate that allowed law enforcement in riot gear to push them around while on horseback. No officers advanced on completely peaceful crowds and grabbed up anyone who stumbled and fell behind their line. No one was treated very roughly despite obvious infirmities. (There are many more videos than I linked to that show excessive manhandling in Canada.) During Pussygate women and men were free to complain just as much as they wanted to. They were also free to harass anyone who walked by them who simply looked like they may have been a Trump supporter, and they left a great deal of litter behind in their wake. Not that their protests could change the words that one man said in an unguarded moment years before. But that's OK. They wanted to protest and that they did in freedom. This current protest is made up of mostly Canadian citizens. Front and center are big rig truck drivers, but that's not all who have been out there protesting and/or supporting the protestors. People who's lives have been sidetracked for two very long and difficult years have been in Ottawa seeking the leader of their country to listen to their grievances. No protester's bank accounts were frozen during Pussygate. Their means of earning a living weren't threatened. They got wonderful acknowledgement in the press. No national emergency was demanded by their government despite comments as inflammatory as Madonna thinking about blowing up the White House on stage before a large crowd. Since this current Canadian protest has begun, actual changes have begun to be implemented in various provinces regarding Covid restrictions and vaccine passports. Those are real changes that most of us in the US have had the benefit of for months to the better part of two years. How selfish to demand to be allowed the freedom to stomp our feet, yell and scream in the public square while wearing cute pink hats over a long-ago comment that we didn't like and didn't directly affect us and then dismiss in the most diminishing ways we can think of the hardships families face under ever more stringent government mandates. You want to hear disgusting comments made by a sitting leader of a country about his own people? You might try listening to Trudeau. Anyone who disagrees with him over his mandates is unapologetically slurred. All those "white supremacists" that have been protesting come from every racial background with skin all the shades humans come in. They are of every religion and they came from all over the world to live in a peaceful country that they thought ensured them particular freedoms. The PEACEFUL protest in Ottawa is one group. They made a conscious decision to embrace their fellow Canadians in peace, joy and love. They sang their national anthem and flew their national flags on the ends of their hockey sticks. They filled the food banks in Ottawa to such a degree that they had to expand outward to fill even more. They stood guard over the monument dedicated to the fallen in past wars and kept it shoveled free of snow. And they continued to seek an audience with the leader of their country so that their grievances could be heard. (I'm using past tense because this was the behavior that Trudeau considered necessitated an Emergency Mandate.) I was watching a crowd live as first they sang the national anthem and then began calling to the police, "We love you. We love you. We love you..." when BANG! BANG! Two loud flashbangs were exploded just a couple of feet at most in front of them. Because there's nothing more dangerous than a bunch of Canadians saying "We love you" while waving the flag and singing their national anthem, apparently. There are bad apples in every bunch. You pick those out and take care of them. You don't call every other apple rotten. But with people, that's different. You find a few miserable people, spread their photos and comments around the Internet - never mind if your stories have mistakes - and then proceed to slur every other person who you in some way perceive may not fully agree with you as every miserable name you can come up with. Just wait. Those truckers and nurses and doctors that you hailed as heroes one day and than despised the next may be you before long. What will people say about you? Do you want people to treat you the way that you have treated them? It’s entirely possible that some of the protestors were nice. But some of them weren’t. People on this thread who live in Ottawa have said so. This is from several weeks ago, shortly before Trudeau made his decision. The article does make a point of saying that the majority of the protestors were peaceful. But the problem was with the ones who weren’t: “Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada on Monday lashed out at protests against pandemic restrictions over the weekend in Ottawa, chastising demonstrators for desecrating war memorials, wielding Nazi symbols and stealing food from the homeless. The protest was a culmination of a group of Canadian truckers and their supporters who drove from Western Canada to Ottawa to challenge government vaccine mandates. Speaking from self-isolation after he and two of his children tested positive for the coronavirus, Mr. Trudeau said he understood the frustrations of Canadians, exasperated by a pandemic that has taken a heavy toll. But he criticized the protesters for flying “racist flags,” hurling abuse at small business owners, spreading disinformation and, in one case, going to a homeless shelter in downtown Ottawa and demanding food. IMO, Trudeau almost certainly made his decision after trucks blocked traffic leading into the US. I read-and I believe it-that he got a lot of pressure from the US. Once you start costing companies lots of money and affect the supply chain, all bets are off. An Ottawa law enforcement spokeswoman said Monday that the police had begun several criminal investigations following the desecration of monuments and other threatening behavior during the weekend protests in Canada’s capital. While the protests were, at times, unruly, a majority of the protesters were peaceful. Nevertheless, urine stains were seen on snow covering the National War Memorial on Sunday morning. Police towed vehicles that protesters had parked on the memorial and Jim Watson, Ottawa’s mayor, said protesters had disrespected the country’s war dead. Many Canadians reacted with disgust after images on social media showed anti-vaccine signs placed on a statue of Terry Fox, a national hero who lost a leg to cancer and who died in 1981 at age 22 after running halfway across the country to raise money for cancer research. Demonstrators were also seen dancing on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. Shepherds of Good Hope, a homeless shelter in downtown Ottawa, said that members of its staff were harassed by protesters who arrived on Saturday and demanded that the shelter feed them. “Friends, it’s been a difficult 24 hours,” read a post on the organization’s Twitter account. “Staff harassed for meals. A service user and security guard assaulted. Through it all, you have donated and filled our hearts with gratitude.” The Rideau Centre, a major shopping mall, closed its doors on Saturday after large numbers of protesters who were not wearing masks swarmed the mall, and yelled and hectored store employees and security guards trying to enforce public health measures.” This is just my opinion, but it seems to me that blocking access to the border crossings was a big part of the reason why Trudeau dropped the hammer.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Feb 21, 2022 12:30:28 GMT
I've only read bits and pieces of both of these protest threads. One thing I did notice is that there seems to be some confusion just why people are protesting and just what rights they have to do so. Let's go back to the fall of 2016, when an old recording was released just before the presidential election of Donald Trump making a disgusting remark. Women didn't like it. OK. Many women dressed in cute little pink hats, made signs, stomped about out in the streets making as much noise as they could because they didn't like it. OK. They had the right to make their opinions heard. No one created a national emergency mandate that allowed law enforcement in riot gear to push them around while on horseback. No officers advanced on completely peaceful crowds and grabbed up anyone who stumbled and fell behind their line. No one was treated very roughly despite obvious infirmities. (There are many more videos than I linked to that show excessive manhandling in Canada.) During Pussygate women and men were free to complain just as much as they wanted to. They were also free to harass anyone who walked by them who simply looked like they may have been a Trump supporter, and they left a great deal of litter behind in their wake. Not that their protests could change the words that one man said in an unguarded moment years before. But that's OK. They wanted to protest and that they did in freedom. This current protest is made up of mostly Canadian citizens. Front and center are big rig truck drivers, but that's not all who have been out there protesting and/or supporting the protestors. People who's lives have been sidetracked for two very long and difficult years have been in Ottawa seeking the leader of their country to listen to their grievances. No protester's bank accounts were frozen during Pussygate. Their means of earning a living weren't threatened. They got wonderful acknowledgement in the press. No national emergency was demanded by their government despite comments as inflammatory as Madonna thinking about blowing up the White House on stage before a large crowd. Since this current Canadian protest has begun, actual changes have begun to be implemented in various provinces regarding Covid restrictions and vaccine passports. Those are real changes that most of us in the US have had the benefit of for months to the better part of two years. How selfish to demand to be allowed the freedom to stomp our feet, yell and scream in the public square while wearing cute pink hats over a long-ago comment that we didn't like and didn't directly affect us and then dismiss in the most diminishing ways we can think of the hardships families face under ever more stringent government mandates. You want to hear disgusting comments made by a sitting leader of a country about his own people? You might try listening to Trudeau. Anyone who disagrees with him over his mandates is unapologetically slurred. All those "white supremacists" that have been protesting come from every racial background with skin all the shades humans come in. They are of every religion and they came from all over the world to live in a peaceful country that they thought ensured them particular freedoms. The PEACEFUL protest in Ottawa is one group. They made a conscious decision to embrace their fellow Canadians in peace, joy and love. They sang their national anthem and flew their national flags on the ends of their hockey sticks. They filled the food banks in Ottawa to such a degree that they had to expand outward to fill even more. They stood guard over the monument dedicated to the fallen in past wars and kept it shoveled free of snow. And they continued to seek an audience with the leader of their country so that their grievances could be heard. (I'm using past tense because this was the behavior that Trudeau considered necessitated an Emergency Mandate.) I was watching a crowd live as first they sang the national anthem and then began calling to the police, "We love you. We love you. We love you..." when BANG! BANG! Two loud flashbangs were exploded just a couple of feet at most in front of them. Because there's nothing more dangerous than a bunch of Canadians saying "We love you" while waving the flag and singing their national anthem, apparently. There are bad apples in every bunch. You pick those out and take care of them. You don't call every other apple rotten. But with people, that's different. You find a few miserable people, spread their photos and comments around the Internet - never mind if your stories have mistakes - and then proceed to slur every other person who you in some way perceive may not fully agree with you as every miserable name you can come up with. Just wait. Those truckers and nurses and doctors that you hailed as heroes one day and than despised the next may be you before long. What will people say about you? Do you want people to treat you the way that you have treated them? Just as conservatives attacked liberals for protests in America… You realize American LEO and Canadian LEO operate differently right? Not the same government. And where were you condemning the LEO who were shooting rubber bullets and tear gas into the faces of human beings in protests here, which resulted in at least one death? Where were you when cindoshas said she’d move protestors blocking her way with her car??? Conservatives have proven themselves hypocrites over and over and over. Your little soapbox speech of treating people… Where the hell are you when republicans in office have been tearing down groups of people??? LBGTQIA, POC, immigrants, women? Where are you when republicans are creating laws to suppress voting, take away women’s rights, box teachers in corners, or creating laws to make it a crime to speak about the actual and factual history of the YSA, because you snowflakes make it all about you and how you feel—fuck the rest of society. You’re strangely (not really) silent. Not a peep. You conservatives coming here handslapping peas who are calling you all out for misinformation, disinformation, hypocrisy, and the both side bullcrap is highly entertaining—and sad at the same time. Your constant victim mentality is old. You’re not fucking victims of anything—it’s YOUR party driving the bus on this crap. Full stop. You continue with the stale diatribe “we have different viewpoints” as a reason that you’re not listened to—we have different viewpoints too—based on fact—and you dismiss those. You don’t embrace our viewpoints when we back them up with fact—why is that? You all don’t give a flying crap about anyone but yourself and your “viewpoints” and continue to support politicians who are self serving, do not have Americans best interests at front and center and who are gleefully tearing town huge groups of people as unworthy, unwanted, and it’s getting worse not better. YOUR party is doing that. And you wonder why people refuse to listen to you.
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Post by Merge on Feb 21, 2022 13:44:19 GMT
I've only read bits and pieces of both of these protest threads. One thing I did notice is that there seems to be some confusion just why people are protesting and just what rights they have to do so. Let's go back to the fall of 2016, when an old recording was released just before the presidential election of Donald Trump making a disgusting remark. Women didn't like it. OK. Many women dressed in cute little pink hats, made signs, stomped about out in the streets making as much noise as they could because they didn't like it. OK. They had the right to make their opinions heard. No one created a national emergency mandate that allowed law enforcement in riot gear to push them around while on horseback. No officers advanced on completely peaceful crowds and grabbed up anyone who stumbled and fell behind their line. No one was treated very roughly despite obvious infirmities. (There are many more videos than I linked to that show excessive manhandling in Canada.) During Pussygate women and men were free to complain just as much as they wanted to. They were also free to harass anyone who walked by them who simply looked like they may have been a Trump supporter, and they left a great deal of litter behind in their wake. Not that their protests could change the words that one man said in an unguarded moment years before. But that's OK. They wanted to protest and that they did in freedom. This current protest is made up of mostly Canadian citizens. Front and center are big rig truck drivers, but that's not all who have been out there protesting and/or supporting the protestors. People who's lives have been sidetracked for two very long and difficult years have been in Ottawa seeking the leader of their country to listen to their grievances. No protester's bank accounts were frozen during Pussygate. Their means of earning a living weren't threatened. They got wonderful acknowledgement in the press. No national emergency was demanded by their government despite comments as inflammatory as Madonna thinking about blowing up the White House on stage before a large crowd. Since this current Canadian protest has begun, actual changes have begun to be implemented in various provinces regarding Covid restrictions and vaccine passports. Those are real changes that most of us in the US have had the benefit of for months to the better part of two years. How selfish to demand to be allowed the freedom to stomp our feet, yell and scream in the public square while wearing cute pink hats over a long-ago comment that we didn't like and didn't directly affect us and then dismiss in the most diminishing ways we can think of the hardships families face under ever more stringent government mandates. You want to hear disgusting comments made by a sitting leader of a country about his own people? You might try listening to Trudeau. Anyone who disagrees with him over his mandates is unapologetically slurred. All those "white supremacists" that have been protesting come from every racial background with skin all the shades humans come in. They are of every religion and they came from all over the world to live in a peaceful country that they thought ensured them particular freedoms. The PEACEFUL protest in Ottawa is one group. They made a conscious decision to embrace their fellow Canadians in peace, joy and love. They sang their national anthem and flew their national flags on the ends of their hockey sticks. They filled the food banks in Ottawa to such a degree that they had to expand outward to fill even more. They stood guard over the monument dedicated to the fallen in past wars and kept it shoveled free of snow. And they continued to seek an audience with the leader of their country so that their grievances could be heard. (I'm using past tense because this was the behavior that Trudeau considered necessitated an Emergency Mandate.) I was watching a crowd live as first they sang the national anthem and then began calling to the police, "We love you. We love you. We love you..." when BANG! BANG! Two loud flashbangs were exploded just a couple of feet at most in front of them. Because there's nothing more dangerous than a bunch of Canadians saying "We love you" while waving the flag and singing their national anthem, apparently. There are bad apples in every bunch. You pick those out and take care of them. You don't call every other apple rotten. But with people, that's different. You find a few miserable people, spread their photos and comments around the Internet - never mind if your stories have mistakes - and then proceed to slur every other person who you in some way perceive may not fully agree with you as every miserable name you can come up with. Just wait. Those truckers and nurses and doctors that you hailed as heroes one day and than despised the next may be you before long. What will people say about you? Do you want people to treat you the way that you have treated them? The Women's Marches lasted one day. One. No one occupied any city for weeks on end. Permits were obtained. No one blocked a major bridge. And I do seem to recall plenty of people here, possibly even you, picking out photos of those you deemed "bad apples" at those events who were wearing shirts or had posters y'all thought were obscene. I recall pictures being posted of "trash left all over" at the DC march, when in actuality what you saw were marchers' posters left at the white house fence as a message, and which were subsequently picked up by organizers. So you can stuff it with your "double standard" argument. Or else give us your address, so I can organize thousands of people to stand in front of your house, sing loudly, honk their horns, blow exhaust, and harass you every time you go in or out for the next three weeks. I'll organize another thousand to block the route to your employer so that no money can be made and you don't get paid. For weeks. These people will have a legitimate grievance, so you can't tell them to go away. They get to stay and the police won't help at all. We'll organize live feeds so other people can watch for hours on end and let you know how well-behaved all the protesters are. And then you can talk to us about how badly these poor, poor souls in Ottawa have been treated. (And don't even talk to me or any public school teacher about being a hero one day and a villain the next. SMDH, how tone deaf can you be?) ETA because I keep seeing more stupid comments in your rant. You know damn good and well that the marches were never just about one comment that Trump made. But keep on with the lies you tell yourself to justify your support of the worst president of all time, particularly where human rights (including women's rights) are concerned. Just don't expect any of us to believe them.
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 9:10:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2022 13:46:08 GMT
Many women dressed in cute little pink hats, made signs, stomped about out in the streets making as much noise as they could because they didn't like it. OK. Hey genius. Those women, myself included, got PERMITS and marched w/in the confines of the PERMITS. See the diff?!?
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 9:10:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2022 13:49:24 GMT
No protester's bank accounts were frozen during Pussygate. The Women's Marches lasted one day. One. No one occupied any city for weeks on end. Permits were obtained. No one blocked a major bridge. OMG. Some can't reason their way out of a paper bag can they?
Yes, a PERMITED march OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WORLDWIDE lasting x hours (whatever the permits allowed in each location) is just the same as UNPERMITED blocking of pubic rights of way for days/weeks!
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Post by Merge on Feb 21, 2022 13:52:45 GMT
No protester's bank accounts were frozen during Pussygate. The Women's Marches lasted one day. One. No one occupied any city for weeks on end. Permits were obtained. No one blocked a major bridge. OMG. Some can't reason their way out of a paper bag can they?
Yes, a PERMITED march OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WORLDWIDE lasting x hours (whatever the permits allowed in each location) is just the same as UNPERMITED blocking of pubic rights of way for days/weeks!
She's a little loonier every time she resurfaces. This is no exception.
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 9:10:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2022 13:55:08 GMT
sudsy Can you shed some light on this, being as you were there at what you are describing as a peaceful protest by the protestors. It sure as heck doesn't come over as very peaceful to many who have read these reports. or maybe this one and another
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 9:10:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2022 14:04:10 GMT
Father of accused in alleged Coutts blockade murder conspiracy says son was radicalized online, as others dispute RCMP narrative
"Lysak was tied to the far-right, extremist group known as Diagolon by the Canadian Anti-Hate Network, which this week shared a photo to social media it said was Chris Lysak standing with the leader of the group.
“This is not a movement of angry frustrated truck drivers. … These are people who want to bring about a violent revolution in order to create a white ethno-state,” said Stephanie Carvin, a national security expert, speaking generally about the group."...
“Several of the individuals at Coutts have strong ties to a far-right extreme organization with leaders who are in Ottawa,” said Mendicino. “We’re talking about a group that is organized, agile, more knowledgeable and driven by an extremist ideology where might makes right.”
Gee, you don't say. A bunch of man babies using violence to establish their will over the will of democracies. Shocking!
www.thestar.com/news/canada/2022/02/17/father-of-accused-in-alleged-coutts-blockade-murder-conspiracy-says-son-was-radicalized-online-as-others-dispute-rcmp-narrative.html
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Post by cakediva on Feb 21, 2022 14:32:59 GMT
Being Mad doesn't make you right
This gal kind of nails how many of us are feeling and the complete mess of information that is out there. And for those that won't follow a link:
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 9:10:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2022 14:40:10 GMT
It's behind a paywall so I'll LINK one that isn't I'm not surprised that JT activated the emergency powers. There's a serious security risk, not to mention that they are armed. Canada's gun laws are very different to the US's. Still think this is all about Covid mandate sudsy ?
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sudsy
Full Member
Posts: 146
Sept 15, 2019 12:55:18 GMT
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Post by sudsy on Feb 21, 2022 15:34:24 GMT
Yes, all true. What I find puzzling is that our Prime Minister invoked this act without so much as talking to the protesters. He refused. Anyway, it will be voted upon by the MP's tomorrow and it will be interesting to see the result. Maybe it would be better if you linked the actual Act from the government website rather than get your info from Wikipedia - far more reliable to get to the facts of what it exactly covers IMO. Thank you for doing so.
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sudsy
Full Member
Posts: 146
Sept 15, 2019 12:55:18 GMT
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Post by sudsy on Feb 21, 2022 15:55:35 GMT
sudsy Can you shed some light on this, being as you were there at what you are describing as a peaceful protest by the protestors. It sure as heck doesn't come over as very peaceful to many who have read these reports. or maybe this one and another All I can tell you is that the times I went to the protest all I saw were people hugging, taking selfies with strangers, having conversations, children holding signs saying things like "I'm not a racist" (in opposition to our leader declaring that anyone who doesn't agree with mandates are "misogynists" and "racist") and people basically coming together. The soup kitchens, homeless population and shelters benefitted from the excess food that was donated to the convoy and I honestly can't picture this group of people harassing a soup kitchen for food when they had so much that they were giving it away at the end of the day. The businesses that closed did so because they wanted to and the ones that stayed open benefitted. If I owned a business that had been suffering due to Covid shutting down most of the downtown I would have certainly kept my doors open to the thousands of visitors. The fear of damage that these businesses cited was simply unfounded. This was a group of people who wanted freedom and that was all. Were people inconvenienced with the noise? I'm sure they were but as mentioned, the number of people who have lost their jobs, their life due to suicide, or their hope for a democratic government have suffered considerably more. All I can suggest is that you don't take my word for it. As I mentioned, Viva Frei or Ottawalks on YouTube have videos that you can watch and judge for yourself.
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sudsy
Full Member
Posts: 146
Sept 15, 2019 12:55:18 GMT
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Post by sudsy on Feb 21, 2022 16:02:13 GMT
Many women dressed in cute little pink hats, made signs, stomped about out in the streets making as much noise as they could because they didn't like it. OK. Hey genius. Those women, myself included, got PERMITS and marched w/in the confines of the PERMITS. See the diff?!? I've already mentioned the truckers had a permit to protest. They were a well organized group with a team of scientists, doctors and lawyers. These members scheduled a press conference and invited the government to attend so that they could have a conversation about the science concerning mandates. It was scheduled for a Friday afternoon. The gov't did not show up. There was no willingness to discuss legitimate concerns. Instead, they basically decreed war. From "can we have a conversation about this?' to "No, war is the best solution"
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Post by OntarioScrapper on Feb 21, 2022 16:16:29 GMT
Yes, all true. What I find puzzling is that our Prime Minister invoked this act without so much as talking to the protesters. He refused. Anyway, it will be voted upon by the MP's tomorrow and it will be interesting to see the result. The protestors accused him of treason. And threatened his safety - he and his family had to move to a safe location. And you think he should have negotiated with them? And negotiated what exactly? We've already covered that Trudeau doesn't have the authority to change provincial covid restrictions. And truckers have to be vaccinated to enter the US. Do you expect Trudeau to fix that? The Canadian vaccination requirement to cross back into Canada is kind of irrelevant if they have to be vaccinated to enter the US. www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60190452THIS! Our PM's life was being threatened and an over throw of the government.
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Post by Merge on Feb 21, 2022 16:30:08 GMT
Hey genius. Those women, myself included, got PERMITS and marched w/in the confines of the PERMITS. See the diff?!? I've already mentioned the truckers had a permit to protest. They were a well organized group with a team of scientists, doctors and lawyers. These members scheduled a press conference and invited the government to attend so that they could have a conversation about the science concerning mandates. It was scheduled for a Friday afternoon. The gov't did not show up. There was no willingness to discuss legitimate concerns. Instead, they basically decreed war. From "can we have a conversation about this?' to "No, war is the best solution" Why on earth would anyone think they’re owed an audience with government officials? Why would they think the government is not already aware of their desires? I don’t know about you, but I don’t get to unilaterally “schedule” something in the president’s day and then get mad and “declare war” - or extend my protest without a permit - when he doesn’t show up. Is this sort of thing common in Canada?
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 9:10:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2022 16:38:10 GMT
All I can tell you is that the times I went to the protest all I saw were people hugging, taking selfies with strangers, having conversations, children holding signs saying things like "I'm not a racist" (in opposition to our leader declaring that anyone who doesn't agree with mandates are "misogynists" and "racist") and people basically coming together. So you didn't actually see EVERYTHING that was going around you then? Yet you were there in person witnessing everything according to your earlier posts.
The soup kitchens, homeless population and shelters benefitted from the excess food that was donated to the convoy and I honestly can't picture this group of people harassing a soup kitchen for food when they had so much that they were giving it away at the end of the day. Are you suggesting that they were lying in that tweet. Why would they do that, why would they publicly say that their staff were assaulted? The businesses that closed did so because they wanted to and the ones that stayed open benefitted. If I owned a business that had been suffering due to Covid shutting down most of the downtown I would have certainly kept my doors open to the thousands of visitors. The fear of damage that these businesses cited was simply unfounded. This was a group of people who wanted freedom and that was all. The businesses that closed were being intimidated that is why they closed. Their customers were being prevented from accessing their businesses. Why would a business close if there was no threat to their business or their safety?
Were people inconvenienced with the noise? I'm sure they were but as mentioned, the number of people who have lost their jobs, their life due to suicide, or their hope for a democratic government have suffered considerably more. Oh for goodness sake - their hope for a democratic government? Really? You've very recently had a federal election where you all had the opportunity to democratically vote your representative into parliament. Bringing a city to a total standstill isn't going to change the members of parliament but it sure as heck going to put more people out of work because they were prevented from running their businesses
All I can suggest is that you don't take my word for it. As I mentioned, Viva Frei or Ottawalks on YouTube have videos that you can watch and judge for yourself. Are you being facetious? Because you surely can't be serious at this suggestion. I've done far more truthful research than what they are spewing out. I suggest that you do the same.
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Post by elaine on Feb 21, 2022 17:08:46 GMT
I've already mentioned the truckers had a permit to protest. They were a well organized group with a team of scientists, doctors and lawyers. These members scheduled a press conference and invited the government to attend so that they could have a conversation about the science concerning mandates. It was scheduled for a Friday afternoon. The gov't did not show up. There was no willingness to discuss legitimate concerns. Instead, they basically decreed war. From "can we have a conversation about this?' to "No, war is the best solution" Why on earth would anyone think they’re owed an audience with government officials? Why would they think the government is not already aware of their desires? I don’t know about you, but I don’t get to unilaterally “schedule” something in the president’s day and then get mad and “declare war” - or extend my protest without a permit - when he doesn’t show up. Is this sort of thing common in Canada? I know. I get stuck on this too. Why did they think they were owed an audience with government officials in some self-scheduled event that they staged? Life just doesn't work that way.
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Post by Merge on Feb 21, 2022 17:16:12 GMT
Why on earth would anyone think they’re owed an audience with government officials? Why would they think the government is not already aware of their desires? I don’t know about you, but I don’t get to unilaterally “schedule” something in the president’s day and then get mad and “declare war” - or extend my protest without a permit - when he doesn’t show up. Is this sort of thing common in Canada? I know. I get stuck on this too. Why did they think they were owed an audience with government officials in some self-scheduled event that they staged? Life just doesn't work that way. Guess I'll schedule a press conference with Gov. Abbott to air my grievances, and when he doesn't show, I'll have thousands of my buddies camp out and have a big love-in on Congress Ave in front of the Texas capitol for three weeks. Will be totally peaceful! I'm sure none of the businesses, or the people who live and work in that area, will mind making the sacrifice because dammit, I deserve to be personally heard on a topic that is already debated in the public forum ad nauseam!
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 9:10:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2022 18:11:54 GMT
These members scheduled a press conference and invited the government to attend That's not how it works. I can't pick my pet issue, issue a PR and "invite the government" to come and "discuss it w/me". They think they're so freaking special w their intimidation tactics. Organize, lobby, protest LAWFULLY, vote and also VOTE W YOUR WALLET. That is how you change policy. Not via BLOCKADES. They may have had a permit for a march, they certainly didn't have permits for a multi-week blockade of borders and public rights of way.
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