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Post by Bridget in MD on Mar 6, 2022 23:58:35 GMT
What do you all think needs to happen to end this? I worry so much that if Putin isn’t stopped he will take Ukraine and then feels emboldened to attack other countries as well. What will that mean for Europe if he does? And what are the chances that Ukraine does come out on top? How long do we wait for sanctions to work? If Ukraine is taken and Putin invades another country what do we do then? I don’t know what else he considers part of the USSR that is not under his control? And I don’t think he has the balls to go after a NATO country honestly since this conflict wasn’t so easy as he thought it would be. If he does manage to capture Ukraine I hope they force even tighter sanctions and bankrupt him so he can’t fight back I honestly don’t know what else we can do. 😢
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Mar 7, 2022 0:53:37 GMT
What do you all think needs to happen to end this? I worry so much that if Putin isn’t stopped he will take Ukraine and then feels emboldened to attack other countries as well. What will that mean for Europe if he does? And what are the chances that Ukraine does come out on top? How long do we wait for sanctions to work? If Ukraine is taken and Putin invades another country what do we do then? I don’t know what else he considers part of the USSR that is not under his control? And I don’t think he has the balls to go after a NATO country honestly since this conflict wasn’t so easy as he thought it would be. If he does manage to capture Ukraine I hope they force even tighter sanctions and bankrupt him so he can’t fight back I honestly don’t know what else we can do. 😢 Finland (directly bordering Russia - a long border) is not a NATO country, as is Sweden, and he’s already made comments about them even thinking about joining, just before this. I’m not sure about Finland (from military readiness perspective), but I very much suspect challenging Sweden (and Finland) would be biting off more than he could chew. But I firmly believe he will not stop with Ukraine, if he’s successful.
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Post by mollycoddle on Mar 7, 2022 1:12:53 GMT
What do you all think needs to happen to end this? I worry so much that if Putin isn’t stopped he will take Ukraine and then feels emboldened to attack other countries as well. What will that mean for Europe if he does? And what are the chances that Ukraine does come out on top? How long do we wait for sanctions to work? If Ukraine is taken and Putin invades another country what do we do then? I don’t know what else he considers part of the USSR that is not under his control? And I don’t think he has the balls to go after a NATO country honestly since this conflict wasn’t so easy as he thought it would be. If he does manage to capture Ukraine I hope they force even tighter sanctions and bankrupt him so he can’t fight back I honestly don’t know what else we can do. 😢 According to people who know a lot more than I do, he would be completely outnumbered if he took on NATO, both in equipment and in troops. Judging by the way his troops have performed so far, it wouldn’t bode well. Of course, if he is not rational, it might not matter to him. I suspect that he IS rational, but that he did not expect the West to band together like this; nor did he think that the Ukrainians would fight so ferociously. But who knows what he might do if backed into a corner. Honestly, there is nothing that he would love more than to pick off another non-NATO country. But will he have the means after this? The Ukrainians have been destroying his tanks and shooting down his aircraft. Can he even get parts for them now? Many of his soldiers are conscripts who did not seem to know what they were getting into. ETA: I happened upon this series of tweets, which might be helpful.
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Post by onelasttime on Mar 7, 2022 2:12:08 GMT
Good…
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Mar 7, 2022 2:14:06 GMT
What is the reason that the US and others are not declaring that Russia is committing war crimes? I just saw a headline on CNN saying that they were "considering it" along with facilitating helping Ukraine get more fighter jets.
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Post by lucyg on Mar 7, 2022 2:42:17 GMT
What is the reason that the US and others are not declaring that Russia is committing war crimes? I just saw a headline on CNN saying that they were "considering it" along with facilitating helping Ukraine get more fighter jets. Because they always need to spend some time considering the possible ramifications of any action they take, rather than just popping off with the first thing that enters their heads and instantly blowing up our foreign relations, like the former guy.
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Post by hopemax on Mar 7, 2022 2:59:14 GMT
Also, there are existing organizations who typically do this. The UN's World Court has a hearing on Monday at the request of Ukraine. Poland is setting up a center for the purpose of documentation. The US doesn't have to take the lead on everything, even as we do our own documentation.
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Post by onelasttime on Mar 7, 2022 3:04:21 GMT
If true good.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Mar 7, 2022 3:37:07 GMT
What is the reason that the US and others are not declaring that Russia is committing war crimes? I just saw a headline on CNN saying that they were "considering it" along with facilitating helping Ukraine get more fighter jets. Because they always need to spend some time considering the possible ramifications of any action they take, rather than just popping off with the first thing that enters their heads and instantly blowing up our foreign relations, like the former guy. I understand that. Maybe a better question would have been "What are the ramifications of saying that Russia is committing war crimes, when it is clear that they are?" I do think it would be good if the UN or other groups would take the lead on that, but was responding more to the headline and what that would have to do with getting planes for Ukraine. They may have talked about it when I wasn't in the room, but after I saw the headline they didn't talk about that.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Mar 7, 2022 3:48:44 GMT
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Mar 7, 2022 3:53:59 GMT
Because they always need to spend some time considering the possible ramifications of any action they take, rather than just popping off with the first thing that enters their heads and instantly blowing up our foreign relations, like the former guy. I understand that. Maybe a better question would have been "What are the ramifications of saying that Russia is committing war crimes, when it is clear that they are?" I do think it would be good if the UN or other groups would take the lead on that, but was responding more to the headline and what that would have to do with getting planes for Ukraine. They may have talked about it when I wasn't in the room, but after I saw the headline they didn't talk about that. The UN could (and perhaps should) but they’d be useless, this time. All UN resolution roads lead to the eventual UNSC Russia permanent member veto vote ≠ no action. 🥴
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 7, 2022 3:58:57 GMT
Interesting... Fox evolves from siding with Russia and Putin to calling for World War III against themSarah K. Burris March 06, 2022 Former Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-SC) has turned full war-hawk on his Fox network show after many of their hosts were standing with Russia and Vladimir Putin just a week ago. *** It's an ironic question because Fox hosts like Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham and Sean Hannity spent last week raging about the contributions that the U.S. was sending and the work President Joe Biden was doing behind the scenes. youtu.be/Z0kzoTsmBkMwww.rawstory.com/fox-network-trey-gowdy-russia/ETA: I forgot the flip flop crew!!
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Mar 7, 2022 4:15:56 GMT
Interesting... Fox evolves from siding with Russia and Putin to calling for World War III against themSarah K. Burris March 06, 2022 Former Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-SC) has turned full war-hawk on his Fox network show after many of their hosts were standing with Russia and Vladimir Putin just a week ago. *** It's an ironic question because Fox hosts like Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham and Sean Hannity spent last week raging about the contributions that the U.S. was sending and the work President Joe Biden was doing behind the scenes. youtu.be/Z0kzoTsmBkMwww.rawstory.com/fox-network-trey-gowdy-russia/ETA: I forgot the flip flop crew!! There’s a shock. I understand (depending on what happens), the response might need to be reevaluated in future, but FOX going full 180 war-hawk (historically) convinces me further they need to be really careful and considered in their decisions on this. 😐
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 7, 2022 4:43:59 GMT
What I said about Blackburn.. she needs to get up in the Senate and her constituents and tell them why costs will go up for things.. and accept responsibility for helping to raise them!!
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 7, 2022 5:01:53 GMT
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 20:03:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2022 6:00:26 GMT
I don't think this has been posted, but if it has, I can delete.
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Post by sideways on Mar 7, 2022 6:07:58 GMT
If you look at the original tweet from Anonymous, this happened on Feb. 26. Hart Hanson is a little late with this revelation. It didn’t last long and it didn’t make much of an impact. Unfortunately, this is old news.
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Post by gar on Mar 7, 2022 9:07:44 GMT
Putin is offering safe, humanitarian corridors for fleeing Ukrainians...but they only lead to Belarus or Russia
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 20:03:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2022 10:48:25 GMT
What do you all think needs to happen to end this? I worry so much that if Putin isn’t stopped he will take Ukraine and then feels emboldened to attack other countries as well. What will that mean for Europe if he does? And what are the chances that Ukraine does come out on top? How long do we wait for sanctions to work? If Ukraine is taken and Putin invades another country what do we do then? I don’t know what else he considers part of the USSR that is not under his control? And I don’t think he has the balls to go after a NATO country honestly since this conflict wasn’t so easy as he thought it would be. If he does manage to capture Ukraine I hope they force even tighter sanctions and bankrupt him so he can’t fight back I honestly don’t know what else we can do. 😢 There are a number of much smaller ex USSR countries who are not full NATO members such as Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan to name just three. I think there's a couple of others too but I would have to look them up. Some of them are associate member though. Armenia is also one too but it has a close relationship with Russia similar to Belarus.
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Post by mollycoddle on Mar 7, 2022 11:39:49 GMT
In the midst of human misery, a light.
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Post by Merge on Mar 7, 2022 13:43:46 GMT
Well, this is terrifying. Former would have loved something like this with his name on it. Fascists gonna fascist.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 7, 2022 13:46:09 GMT
Terrifying is correct!!
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 20:03:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2022 13:56:09 GMT
Opinion piece on how Ukraine is different than Russia's previous sorties in Georgia, Chechnya, Syria. "The Russian president has long warned that Ukraine belongs to Russia; if it could not have her, then nobody else could. Alas, no one listened.... Putin has made his views abundantly clear over the years, warning the West to end its geopolitical adventurism and keep away from Russia’s sphere of influence; to stop fishing and flirting with Ukraine, to no avail. Uncharacteristically for a former KGB operative, Putin’s ominous speech on the eve of the Ukraine invasion was especially emotional, bitter and angry. The West was forcing his hand and he had no choice but to act before it was too late. Putin could have endured the disappointment and the jealousy, but not the betrayal; Russia just could not live with Kyiv’s shameful infidelity. Not after a 300-year partnership, not after all that Moscow had done for Ukraine, endowing it with territory, money and prestige. Despite having made his peace with Ukraine’s desire for separation and grudgingly accepted joint custody of the twins, Luhansk and Donetsk, in 2014, he believed Kyiv continued to abuse the eastern provinces for the following eight years, providing him the pretext to intervene. The latest Russian doctrine he godfathered is committed to protecting all Russians, including the 25 million that were left outside Russia’s borders following the collapse of the Soviet Union, and especially the 12 million Russians in Ukraine. To that end, and to leave no room for doubt, Putin ordered 720,000 fast-track passports to be issued for Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine, giving himself the moral and national justification to intervene, as he did in Crimea in 2014. And so he did. Again.... That is why Putin’s Ukraine adventure could prove devastating to Russia, considering the massive sanctions and the costly occupation. Unlike his previous little wars in Chechnya, Georgia and Syria, this may well prove reckless. Indeed, the Russian leader may have underestimated the West’s “smart power” and its capacity to cause terrible pain through financial, diplomatic and other means. The West’s deployment of its formidable corporate arsenal against all spheres of Russian life is truly mind-blowing, whether in banking, technology, manufacturing, communication, transport or even entertainment." www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/6/putins-macho-doctrine-implications-for-ukraine
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Post by Bridget in MD on Mar 7, 2022 14:05:16 GMT
I don’t know what else he considers part of the USSR that is not under his control? And I don’t think he has the balls to go after a NATO country honestly since this conflict wasn’t so easy as he thought it would be. If he does manage to capture Ukraine I hope they force even tighter sanctions and bankrupt him so he can’t fight back I honestly don’t know what else we can do. 😢 Finland (directly bordering Russia - a long border) is not a NATO country, as is Sweden, and he’s already made comments about them even thinking about joining, just before this. I’m not sure about Finland (from military readiness perspective), but I very much suspect challenging Sweden (and Finland) would be biting off more than he could chew. But I firmly believe he will not stop with Ukraine, if he’s successful. Wow, I had no idea Finland or Sweden weren't part of NATO. So in theory he could invade those countries, like Ukraine, and we would have to stand by and watch?
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breetheflea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,591
Location: PNW
Jul 20, 2014 21:57:23 GMT
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Post by breetheflea on Mar 7, 2022 14:12:35 GMT
Finland (directly bordering Russia - a long border) is not a NATO country, as is Sweden, and he’s already made comments about them even thinking about joining, just before this. I’m not sure about Finland (from military readiness perspective), but I very much suspect challenging Sweden (and Finland) would be biting off more than he could chew. But I firmly believe he will not stop with Ukraine, if he’s successful. Wow, I had no idea Finland or Sweden weren't part of NATO. So in theory he could invade those countries, like Ukraine, and we would have to stand by and watch? These are the European countries NOT in Nato: Andorra Armenia Austria Azerbaijan Belarus Bosnia and Herzegovina Cyprus Finland Ireland Kosovo Malta Moldova Monaco Russia San Marino Serbia Sweden Switzerland Ukraine
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 24, 2024 20:03:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2022 14:40:08 GMT
Finland (directly bordering Russia - a long border) is not a NATO country, as is Sweden, and he’s already made comments about them even thinking about joining, just before this. I’m not sure about Finland (from military readiness perspective), but I very much suspect challenging Sweden (and Finland) would be biting off more than he could chew. But I firmly believe he will not stop with Ukraine, if he’s successful. Wow, I had no idea Finland or Sweden weren't part of NATO. So in theory he could invade those countries, like Ukraine, and we would have to stand by and watch? They've both declared themselves neutral countries. That would have to change if they joined NATO. Altghough I think the Fins are seriously considering it now. Russia did, under Stalin, invade Finland in 1939 but got a bit of a shock when they were met with so much resistance - google Winter War that should give you some more detail if you are interested in the wider story.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Mar 7, 2022 14:45:36 GMT
Finland (directly bordering Russia - a long border) is not a NATO country, as is Sweden, and he’s already made comments about them even thinking about joining, just before this. I’m not sure about Finland (from military readiness perspective), but I very much suspect challenging Sweden (and Finland) would be biting off more than he could chew. But I firmly believe he will not stop with Ukraine, if he’s successful. Wow, I had no idea Finland or Sweden weren't part of NATO. So in theory he could invade those countries, like Ukraine, and we would have to stand by and watch? Finland was not part of the USSR, but was somehow part of imperial Russia (when they had a royal family, before the revolution). But even after Finland got it’s independence as an outcome of the Russian revolution in the early 20th century Finland/Russia relations after that are long and complicated (more than I can explain - you should read about it) and include a Finnish civil war and invasion by USSR during WWII. All that to say if Finland (especially) is feeling the least bit vulnerable at this, I don’t blame them one bit, with their geopolitical history in regards to Russia.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
Jun 26, 2014 23:58:32 GMT
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Post by sassyangel on Mar 7, 2022 15:24:57 GMT
I’ve no idea why this hasn’t been discussed more in the general media theorizing about what Russian motives might be. There’s a book from 1997 (one of many by this author), that is influential in current Russia called Foundations of Geopolitics. The bullet point summary of the contents - is *interesting* when you consider Putin’s past and present actions. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_GeopoliticsThe background of the author Aleksandr Dugin is important for context/bigger picture. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 7, 2022 15:44:38 GMT
Hope this Irish driver doesn't get into too trouble...
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Deleted
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Nov 24, 2024 20:03:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2022 15:49:38 GMT
Cancelling Russia while China observes. The power of the "superpowers" and the "superempowered" (big banks, rich people, big tech, etc.) "We have already seen three “weapons” deployed in ways we’ve never seen before or not seen in a long time, and China would be wise to study them all. Because if China doesn’t help stop Russia now, these weapons will either ultimately hammer Putin into submission — which means they might be used against China one day, should it seize Taiwan — or damage Russia so badly that the economic effects will radiate everywhere. These weapons might even prompt Putin to do the unthinkable with his nuclear arms, which could destabilize and even destroy the global foundations on which China’s future rests. The most important innovation in this war is the use of the economic equivalent of a nuclear bomb, simultaneously deployed by a superpower and by superempowered people. The United States, along with the European Union and Britain, has imposed sanctions on Russia that are crippling its economy, critically threatening companies and shattering the savings of millions of Russians at an unprecedented speed and scope that bring to mind a nuclear blast. Putin has now figured that out — and said so explicitly on Saturday: The U.S.- and E.U.-led sanctions are “akin to a declaration of war.” (Vladimir, you haven’t felt the half of it yet.) Second, because the world is now so wired, superempowered individuals, companies and social activist groups can pile on their own sanctions and boycotts, without any government orders, amplifying the isolation and economic strangulation of Russia beyond what nation-states are likely to do. These new actors — a kind of global ad hoc pro-Ukraine-resistance-solidarity-movement — are collectively canceling Putin and Russia. Rarely, if ever, has a country this big and powerful been politically canceled and economically crippled so fast. The third weapon is both new and old, and it’s a spiritual and emotional one: The West has rediscovered its voice. Faced with the raw, primitive onslaught by Russia against a flawed but aspiring democracy like Ukraine, the free world has been aroused. America and liberal societies in general can often look and act dumb and divided — until they aren’t. Ask Adolf Hitler. These three weapons should be enough to get China’s attention. So let’s look closer at how they work in practice." www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/opinion/putin-ukraine-china.html
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