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Post by Lovescrapping on Apr 8, 2022 15:43:15 GMT
So I just seen the awesome new collections coming out from social paper plan and I was wondering how they were able to make and sell the Disney and Star Wars themed things. Even the bigger companies (Echo Park, Simple Stories) that do Disney, make it so it’s more generic so to not be too exactly tied back to Disney.
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Post by joblackford on Apr 8, 2022 19:19:50 GMT
I haven't seen the products you're referring to but many companies do their own "inspired by" artwork that they carefully name to avoid flagging it to the intellectual property holder. For example, a stamp set might be called Buddies when it's clearly about the TV show Friends or Wizard Kids and the boy wearing round glasses is never named as Harry Potter. Most seem to rely on the excuse of "fair use" but I notice that many only have the product available for a limited time so any cease and desist letters will come too late to impact their profits.
Fair use is a tricky thing to define and we've talked about it here before, some things are allowed that seem brutally unfair and things that shouldn't be a big deal are flagged.
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Post by mom on Apr 8, 2022 19:53:43 GMT
I’d be really surprised if the images were allowed. They’re clearly using the Mickey ears and all things Mickey are trademarked. They’re also using other characters that are clearly recognizable.
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Post by Lovescrapping on Apr 8, 2022 22:22:25 GMT
I’d be really surprised if the images were allowed. They’re clearly using the Mickey ears and all things Mickey are trademarked. They’re also using other characters that are clearly recognizable. Yes and the Star Wars are exact also. That’s what surprised me. |
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Post by Lovescrapping on Apr 8, 2022 22:27:11 GMT
I haven't seen the products you're referring to but many companies do their own "inspired by" artwork that they carefully name to avoid flagging it to the intellectual property holder. For example, a stamp set might be called Buddies when it's clearly about the TV show Friends or Wizard Kids and the boy wearing round glasses is never named as Harry Potter. Most seem to rely on the excuse of "fair use" but I notice that many only have the product available for a limited time so any cease and desist letters will come too late to impact their profits. Fair use is a tricky thing to define and we've talked about it here before, some things are allowed that seem brutally unfair and things that shouldn't be a big deal are flagged. Yep what you are saying makes complete sense. I guess I was just blown away with how it was so less hidden With this collection compared to what I’ve seen before. Like simple stories I believe doesn’t use the whole Mickey head, only half at most. But you are right, their products are probably produced for long and in a greater capacity. Where as this company is on a smaller scale and this won’t be a collection that they make long term. |
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Post by sleepingbooty on Apr 8, 2022 22:33:08 GMT
Social Paper Plan is small and indie. The bet is that they won't get caught by the giant Disney machine, I guess. Kelly Purkey has done the same in the past and has a larger customer base. There's no way this is a licensed collection as there is not a single mention of it.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Apr 8, 2022 22:35:04 GMT
Fair use is a tricky thing to define and we've talked about it here before, some things are allowed that seem brutally unfair and things that shouldn't be a big deal are flagged. SPP is straight up using Disney images though... It's pretty shameless.   |
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Post by Linda on Apr 8, 2022 23:08:43 GMT
Disney has a reputation for keeping a pretty tight rein on their trademark to the point of going after small Ebay/Etsy type sellers to cease and desist so I would be very surprised if they don't get wind of this and shut it down.
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Post by joblackford on Apr 9, 2022 1:11:28 GMT
Oh, wow, no. That's totally, unquestionably, an infringement! Dang! Sorry, I didn't have a chance to see the images right away. Wow. One part of me says good luck to them getting away with that. Another part of me wouldn't want my images stolen for someone else's profit so idk...
I believe back a couple of decades ago Disney made a small town in New Zealand paint over the classic Disney characters someone had painted on a restroom block at a playground... even though no one was making any money off "stealing" their IP.
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Peamac
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Post by Peamac on Apr 9, 2022 1:39:20 GMT
Could they have a contract with Disney to use the designs? Similar to Lularoe when they had Disney leggings for a year or two.
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Post by mom on Apr 9, 2022 1:48:33 GMT
Could they have a contract with Disney to use the designs? Similar to Lularoe when they had Disney leggings for a year or two. I mean, I guess they could. But I highly doubt it. Those contracts are not cheap and for a small business...it would be a ton of money. |
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Post by Linda on Apr 9, 2022 1:56:00 GMT
Could they have a contract with Disney to use the designs? Similar to Lularoe when they had Disney leggings for a year or two. they could but a) it's very expensive and b) typically there's language about copyright Disney on the labelling |
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Post by sleepingbooty on Apr 9, 2022 10:27:13 GMT
Could they have a contract with Disney to use the designs? Similar to Lularoe when they had Disney leggings for a year or two. SPP is hitting every red flag that they aren't paying licensing rights which is when you buy the right to use the imagery provided it respects the rules set by Disney (Disney doesn't care at all about the entity buying these non-exclusive rights and doesn't negotiate with them: there are set prices with rules and you just hit the purchase button, that's how easy it is). Licensing rights vary depending on how you'll exploit them. This explains why one of the biggest scrap-adjacent planner companies does not cater their Disney releases all over the world, for example: Happy Planner's super successful Disney collections are only available in the US and Canada. Canada was a recent addition, it used to only be US. They expanded their licensing rights to North America. They haven't and won't go global because of the cost. They would need to substantially raise the price of the Disney items if they were to, say, buy the rights for Europe as well because they just aren't shifting the volume of products in Europe they'd need to warrant the license extension so they'd have to make everyone bear the cost of the licensing rights for just the one continent. Seems unfair and bad business. Their Disney volume would also crumble in the US and Canada due to the price increase. Wouldn't work. SSP sells worldwide, no limitations. That would mean they've bought a global license which is super costly to the point that many big players don't bother with it, including established scrapbook companies and Happy Planner (and LulaRoe once upon a time). You also need to be able to meet the requirements set by Disney for commercialising like product integrity and pass a credit evaluation among other things. This is another reason, beyond finances, why independent micro businesses don't go after Disney licenses. You can read more about Disney's specifications here. When you commercialise an entity's intellectual property, the first thing you do is notify you are authorised to use that property. Hence the official Disney logo and © mention on these products. Nothing of this on SSP and their stamp set names are actually generic to bypass basic word searches. "Iconic Park Icons", "Park snack", "Halloween Time", "Very Merry", etc. Nothing about Mickey or Disney. To read up more about small business and the use of Disney imagery, I recommend this page from which comes the following quote: Either SPP is operating at a loss (makes no sense) and totally forgot to notify they are authorised to use Disney imagery that cost them a lot or, you know, they're trying to get away with it.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2022 12:54:49 GMT
We asked for permission, and Disney wouldn’t even let us use photos we had taken at Disney World on the layouts we had in one of our sketch books.
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artbabe
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Post by artbabe on Apr 9, 2022 13:01:36 GMT
I don't know how they think they are going to get away with this. Disney will sue a toddler for a crayon drawing.  They are notorious for going after small businesses. |
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Post by lindamh on Apr 9, 2022 23:54:14 GMT
Disclaimer: I am mentioning this not for any political reason or discussion, but purely for the economic reason related to this topic. (Just thought I'd say that straight out . . .)
As is mentioned in the article linked by Sleeping Booty, the copyright on Mickey based on the Steamboat Wille cartoon is up for renewal in 2024. (I'm still not clear if that means anything Mickey, or just the Steamboat Willie image) I recently read an article that talked about Florida legislators who are considering not allowing Disney to renew that copyright based on some of Disney's recent actions. If that were to occur I wonder what impact that would have on the use of Micky's image. Would we see a huge surge in Mickey scrapbook materials? Or would no one really care as they've already made their own Disney-like items? If the copyright on Mickey is not renewed would people be more likely to use without permission other Disney images that were still under copyright? Just wondering . . . . .
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Post by aj2hall on Apr 10, 2022 14:25:03 GMT
Years ago, I listed a handmade paper piecing of Eeyore that was removed by eBay. Disney fairly aggressively protects their copyright. I agree with others that more than likely, SPP doesn’t have permission.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Apr 10, 2022 14:51:02 GMT
As is mentioned in the article linked by Sleeping Booty, the copyright on Mickey based on the Steamboat Wille cartoon is up for renewal in 2024. (I'm still not clear if that means anything Mickey, or just the Steamboat Willie image) I recently read an article that talked about Florida legislators who are considering not allowing Disney to renew that copyright based on some of Disney's recent actions. If that were to occur I wonder what impact that would have on the use of Micky's image. Would we see a huge surge in Mickey scrapbook materials? It's only the Steamboat Willie cartoon that's concerned (and the Disney brothers' other early works). That won't change anything for Mickey Mouse the character as he is trademarked. Steamboat Willie the cartoon will likely slip into public domain, that's all. The two are separate legal matters.  |
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Post by Skellinton on Apr 10, 2022 17:15:56 GMT
Everyone shhhh..  If Disney would come out with some cute scrapbooking stuff then I would 100% support them going after people for Copy-write infringement, but good golly marie they have NOTHING! The only way to get anything Disney scrapbooking is to buy it from these companies. I do feel guilty for buying these things, but I buy anyway. |
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scrapnnana
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Post by scrapnnana on Apr 10, 2022 17:42:12 GMT
Although many companies do something generic enough that they can get away with it, I think there must be a select few who have a licensing agreement with Disney. Cricut sells Disney images that are clearly Disney artwork, including Mickey and Minnie designs, but they are a big enough company that Disney probably was willing to approve that use. Small companies aren’t going to be worth their time to approve agreements (IMO), because there wouldn’t be enough profit, and it would be harder to keep tabs on them, and be sure that Disney is getting their percentage. Disney is very, very protective of their copyright, so approvals are understandable few.
Cricut must be turning over a big chunk (perhaps all) of any profits on Disney designs, but having Disney designs brings more customers to Cricut as opposed to Cricut’s competitors, so it helps Cricut in the long run, even if they make no profit on the Disney designs.
I have no personal knowledge of Cricut’s agreement with Disney. I just think that getting 95 or more per cent of the profits, and being a big company, would be about the only way that Disney would approve use of their designs.
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Post by lindamh on Apr 10, 2022 18:08:20 GMT
Thanks for the clarification sleepingbooty. That definitely would have much less or no impact. Feel free to ignore my ramblings. Sometimes I think more than is good for me!  |
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caangel
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Post by caangel on Apr 10, 2022 19:30:19 GMT
Although many companies do something generic enough that they can get away with it, I think there must be a select few who have a licensing agreement with Disney. Cricut sells Disney images that are clearly Disney artwork, including Mickey and Minnie designs, but they are a big enough company that Disney probably was willing to approve that use. Small companies aren’t going to be work their time to approve agreements (IMO), because there wouldn’t be enough profit, and it would be harder to keep tabs on them, and be sure that Disney is getting their percentage. Disney is very, very protective of their copyright, so approvals are understandable few. M Cricut must be turning over a big chunk (perhaps all) of any profits on Disney designs, but having Disney designs brings more customers to Cricut as opposed to Cricut’s competitors, so it helps Cricut in the long run, even if they make no profit on the Disney designs. I have no personal knowledge of Cricut’s agreement with Disney. I just think that getting 95 or more per ent of the profits, and being a big company, would be about the only way that Disney would approve use of their designs. The money Disney makes off of cricut is pennies compared to other stuff. I don't think they care about profit from sales as much as can you (the company) pay and follow their merchandise agreement. If so great you get it. It is more about protecting their brand than how much money they can make off of the business (not that they won't get their due but I don't think that is the driving decision for who get the licensing). |
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scrapnnana
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Post by scrapnnana on Apr 10, 2022 23:01:30 GMT
Although many companies do something generic enough that they can get away with it, I think there must be a select few who have a licensing agreement with Disney. Cricut sells Disney images that are clearly Disney artwork, including Mickey and Minnie designs, but they are a big enough company that Disney probably was willing to approve that use. Small companies aren’t going to be work their time to approve agreements (IMO), because there wouldn’t be enough profit, and it would be harder to keep tabs on them, and be sure that Disney is getting their percentage. Disney is very, very protective of their copyright, so approvals are understandable few. M Cricut must be turning over a big chunk (perhaps all) of any profits on Disney designs, but having Disney designs brings more customers to Cricut as opposed to Cricut’s competitors, so it helps Cricut in the long run, even if they make no profit on the Disney designs. I have no personal knowledge of Cricut’s agreement with Disney. I just think that getting 95 or more per ent of the profits, and being a big company, would be about the only way that Disney would approve use of their designs. The money Disney makes off of cricut is pennies compared to other stuff. I don't think they care about profit from sales as much as can you (the company) pay and follow their merchandise agreement. If so great you get it. It is more about protecting their brand than how much money they can make off of the business (not that they won't get their due but I don't think that is the driving decision for who get the licensing). I don’t know what their merchandise agreement is, but unless it is totally draconian, if that were the only criteria, it seems to me that more companies would get a license to make and sell Disney merchandise. There are quite a few that seem to try to fly under the Disney radar. Back to the OP’s question, though: does it appear that SSP has a Disney license, or are they trying to just fly under the radar. If the latter, I am sure that they will hear from the Disney lawyers. A lot of the people who create cutting files for sale online are flying under the radar, but they usually get caught sooner than later. If so, it could be a very stupid and costly risk. |
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caangel
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Post by caangel on Apr 10, 2022 23:04:00 GMT
I think that the cost of licensing is probably cost prohibitive to many companies and that's why most don't have one.
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scrapnnana
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Post by scrapnnana on Apr 11, 2022 2:41:53 GMT
I think that the cost of licensing is probably cost prohibitive to many companies and that's why most do have one. I assume you meant to type “that’s why most don’t have one.” And yes, I’m sure the cost is prohibitive for smaller companies or for individuals. There are a few companies (like Cricut) who are licensed to sell products with Disney images, but they tend to be bigger companies who can presumably afford it, and might be willing to make concessions to Disney. When I first posted, I didn’t know that SPP was such a small company. I should have read all of the posts more carefully. I had hoped they were legit, because like everyone else who has Disney pictures to scrapbook, it would be nice to have some decent products. The cost of SPP being sued by Disney could easily be higher than any potential profits they or other small companies and crafters might make. The chances are pretty high that Disney’s legal folks will find out and bring legal action. SPP appears to be taking a huge risk IMO, regardless of their reasons. |
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PaperAngel
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Post by PaperAngel on Apr 15, 2022 6:48:54 GMT
It is illegal for companies to manufacture/sell Disney themed products without a license under trademark/copyright law. To my knowledge, EK Success is the only manufacturer with officially licensed Disney papercrafting products (see EK Success Catalog, pgs. 234-278) that can be purchased at sb.com, HL.com (note all 7 stamp sets are available in store), & other retailers. HTH. |
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Post by mom on Apr 16, 2022 1:29:22 GMT
I messaged them as I was considering purchasing some of the stamps for my son's album. Here is part of her reply:
My artists are all huge Disney fans and are frequent park visitors.. we discovered a need for items to help us document our trips to the parks that work for actual crafters. Our art is our interpretation of what we see in the parks everything is slightly changed enough so it is not an exact replica of what is our there. We work hard to make our fan art our own look and feel. What we are most proud of is that all of our items are made here in the USA. To answer your question we do not have a license with Disney because our artwork differs, nor has Disney ever contacted us for concern.
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Post by wendifful on Apr 16, 2022 2:23:08 GMT
I messaged them as I was considering purchasing some of the stamps for my son's album. Here is part of her reply: My artists are all huge Disney fans and are frequent park visitors.. we discovered a need for items to help us document our trips to the parks that work for actual crafters. Our art is our interpretation of what we see in the parks everything is slightly changed enough so it is not an exact replica of what is our there. We work hard to make our fan art our own look and feel. What we are most proud of is that all of our items are made here in the USA. To answer your question we do not have a license with Disney because our artwork differs, nor has Disney ever contacted us for concern. "Tell me you don't know anything about copyright law without telling me you don't know anything about copyright law." |
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Post by mom on Apr 16, 2022 18:45:36 GMT
I messaged them as I was considering purchasing some of the stamps for my son's album. Here is part of her reply: My artists are all huge Disney fans and are frequent park visitors.. we discovered a need for items to help us document our trips to the parks that work for actual crafters. Our art is our interpretation of what we see in the parks everything is slightly changed enough so it is not an exact replica of what is our there. We work hard to make our fan art our own look and feel. What we are most proud of is that all of our items are made here in the USA. To answer your question we do not have a license with Disney because our artwork differs, nor has Disney ever contacted us for concern. "Tell me you don't know anything about copyright law without telling me you don't know anything about copyright law." I thought the same thing but decided she’s gonna do what she’s gonna do. She wasn’t interested in knowing what she was doing was wrong. |
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Post by honeypea on Apr 16, 2022 19:09:27 GMT
I’ve assumed all along she’s operating under the radar and she’ll get it catching up to her sooner or later.
Because I’m so sure her days are numbered, I’ve made sure to buy every stamp set the minute it was first released. 😬
I know what she’s doing is wrong, but I want them anyway. If Disney was offering these same products, even at twice the cost, I’d buy them from the legitimate source (I don’t buy knockoffs from AliExpress, for example). But they’re not.
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They are notorious for going after small businesses.
