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Post by pjaye on Aug 7, 2022 19:02:20 GMT
Then she has no business drinking and driving a car. Which part of "can't make rational choices" are you incapable of understanding? She didn't kill anyone, playing the "what if" game is stupid. The only person she physically hurt is herself and she'll be dealing with that for a long time - so that should make your sick little mind happy. She still might die - then you can really celebrate!
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QueenoftheSloths
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Post by QueenoftheSloths on Aug 7, 2022 20:14:11 GMT
Whether her problems are related to mental health, addiction or something else entirely, perhaps she needs to be in a more controlled environment to protect both herself and the general public.
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Post by Merge on Aug 7, 2022 21:00:38 GMT
If she was drunk, then I have no sympathy for her. If she was having psychosis, then I’m appalled at the lack of understanding from some people here who should know better.
People experiencing psychosis don’t “make choices” the way people normally do. Some attitudes here certainly show why there is still such stigma around mental health issues in this country, and thus unwillingness to acknowledge and treat them.
Either way, I have sympathy for the person whose house was destroyed.
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Post by Merge on Aug 7, 2022 21:03:08 GMT
Whether her problems are related to mental health, addiction or something else entirely, perhaps she needs to be in a more controlled environment to protect both herself and the general public. Yes, people sometimes need to be hospitalized for their mental health issues. I’m sure that’s what you meant by a “controlled environment.”
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scrappinmama
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Post by scrappinmama on Aug 7, 2022 21:28:21 GMT
If she was intoxicated, that will come out eventually. It definitely sounds like she was unstable and had no business being behind the wheel of her car. I feel for her pain right now, and I'm not just talking about her burns. Her actions don't seem like the actions of a stable person and I have compassion for that. I can have sympathy for her struggles and be pissed at the damage she caused. I hope she makes a recovery and gets help for whatever she is going through. And I hope the person whose house was destroyed will be able to rebuild.
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Post by candleangie on Aug 7, 2022 21:31:07 GMT
No-one knows for a fact yet what her blood alcohol was. No-one knows enough of the facts yet to "decide" on anything This is someone with a history of mental illness and who was once waiting in the desert for a spaceship - so clearly she's has an episode in the past where she lost touch with reality. It's possible that happened again and in that state she can't make rational choices. ….and in that state she can't make rational choices. Then she has no business drinking and driving a car. And if by some minute chance she wasn’t shitfaced, which I am betting she was, she still has no business driving if she is that far out of reality. And if she was that out of touch with reality, how exactly would you have liked her to make that very rational decision not to drive?
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QueenoftheSloths
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Post by QueenoftheSloths on Aug 7, 2022 21:31:18 GMT
Whether her problems are related to mental health, addiction or something else entirely, perhaps she needs to be in a more controlled environment to protect both herself and the general public. Yes, people sometimes need to be hospitalized for their mental health issues. I’m sure that’s what you meant by a “controlled environment.” Hospital, rehab, prison, conservatorship. There are a number of controlled environments that could be appropriate, depending on what the circumstances are. Hopefully the person who now can no longer feel safe in their own home can also receive help for what must have been a very traumatic experience for them. People keep saying no one was hurt. What about the mental and emotional injuries suffered by this person?
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Post by Skellinton on Aug 7, 2022 21:39:05 GMT
If she was drunk, then I have no sympathy for her. If she was having psychosis, then I’m appalled at the lack of understanding from some people here who should know better. People experiencing psychosis don’t “make choices” the way people normally do. Some attitudes here certainly show why there is still such stigma around mental health issues in this country, and thus unwillingness to acknowledge and treat them. Either way, I have sympathy for the person whose house was destroyed. Merge said we exactly what I was trying to say...
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Post by mollycoddle on Aug 7, 2022 21:43:52 GMT
If she was drunk, then I have no sympathy for her. If she was having psychosis, then I’m appalled at the lack of understanding from some people here who should know better. People experiencing psychosis don’t “make choices” the way people normally do. Some attitudes here certainly show why there is still such stigma around mental health issues in this country, and thus unwillingness to acknowledge and treat them. Either way, I have sympathy for the person whose house was destroyed. This. And that poor homeowner; I feel terrible for him or her.
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katybee
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Post by katybee on Aug 7, 2022 21:51:23 GMT
I listened to the video several times. I did not hear her brake at all….only accelerate and then the crash. In my completely unsolicited and uneducated opinion, she was trying to unalive herself.
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Post by Merge on Aug 7, 2022 22:12:02 GMT
Yes, people sometimes need to be hospitalized for their mental health issues. I’m sure that’s what you meant by a “controlled environment.” Hospital, rehab, prison, conservatorship. There are a number of controlled environments that could be appropriate, depending on what the circumstances are. Hopefully the person who now can no longer feel safe in their own home can also receive help for what must have been a very traumatic experience for them. People keep saying no one was hurt. What about the mental and emotional injuries suffered by this person? We've put people suffering mental health crises in prison forever, and all it's done is to (a) not make them better and (b) further stigmatize mental health issues. Rehab also doesn't solve mental health problems - addiction is a separate issue. Do you understand that people die every year because of attitudes like yours? People commit suicide because they are struggling and feel their struggles are evidence of their own character flaws and unworthiness, and they'd rather die than hurt another person or continue to live in pain. I suppose in your estimation, it would be best if they just offed themselves rather than continuing to burden the population. I'm sure it was a traumatic experience for the homeowner and I hope she gets all the help and assistance she needs to feel whole again. But suggesting that people experiencing psychosis should just be put in prison is neither helpful nor accurate. Even when the woman here in Texas heard voices that told her to kill her five children, she was remanded to a mental hospital, not prison. Want to prevent people from being hurt by mental health issues (their own or others)? Stop saying that people experiencing psychosis belong in prison. How nice for you that you don't love anyone with mental health issues, to make such a statement. (And for the peas who liked that hateful statement, I see you. I see you. Shame on you.)
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QueenoftheSloths
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Post by QueenoftheSloths on Aug 7, 2022 22:23:13 GMT
Hospital, rehab, prison, conservatorship. There are a number of controlled environments that could be appropriate, depending on what the circumstances are. Hopefully the person who now can no longer feel safe in their own home can also receive help for what must have been a very traumatic experience for them. People keep saying no one was hurt. What about the mental and emotional injuries suffered by this person? We've put people suffering mental health crises in prison forever, and all it's done is to (a) not make them better and (b) further stigmatize mental health issues. Rehab also doesn't solve mental health problems - addiction is a separate issue. Do you understand that people die every year because of attitudes like yours? People commit suicide because they are struggling and feel their struggles are evidence of their own character flaws and unworthiness, and they'd rather die than hurt another person or continue to live in pain. I suppose in your estimation, it would be best if they just offed themselves rather than continuing to burden the population. I'm sure it was a traumatic experience for the homeowner and I hope she gets all the help and assistance she needs to feel whole again. But suggesting that people experiencing psychosis should just be put in prison is neither helpful nor accurate. Even when the woman here in Texas heard voices that told her to kill her five children, she was remanded to a mental hospital, not prison. Want to prevent people from being hurt by mental health issues (their own or others)? Stop saying that people experiencing psychosis belong in prison. How nice for you that you don't love anyone with mental health issues, to make such a statement. (And for the peas who liked that hateful statement, I see you. I see you. Shame on you.) You seem to be putting an awful lot of words into my mouth. I said depending on the circumstances, some of those more controlled environments could be appropriate. The rest of your post is all yours.
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Post by Merge on Aug 7, 2022 22:24:46 GMT
Proof? Yes that's right, that's exactly what the press do, cover-up for celebrities. That's why there's never any stories or gossip about them. It's their job to keep the lives of celebrities very private. All that cover-up and privacy keeping they do, for even the minor celebrities...curious though, isn't it? how they get paid?? TL;DR = you're a fucking idiot and a cunt to boot. It was reported that there was vodka in her car. There is video of her speeding down a neighborhood street. She crashed into an apartment bldg and when people came out to help her, she took off and then crashed into someone else’s house!! It’s not hard to bet that she was drunk. If I’m a fucking idiot and a cunt because I have ABSOLUTELY NO sympathy for her and any other DRUNK DRIVER then so be it. You are insignificant and I don’t care what you think. Added-https://nypost.com/2022/08/07/anne-heche-drank-vodka-wine-in-podcast-posted-hours-before-crash/ Every news story including the one you posted says that it's not clear when the podcast was recorded - could have been days or weeks before. We don't know. I like how you "liked" your own post because no one else did. Talk about insignificant.
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Post by Merge on Aug 7, 2022 22:29:21 GMT
We've put people suffering mental health crises in prison forever, and all it's done is to (a) not make them better and (b) further stigmatize mental health issues. Rehab also doesn't solve mental health problems - addiction is a separate issue. Do you understand that people die every year because of attitudes like yours? People commit suicide because they are struggling and feel their struggles are evidence of their own character flaws and unworthiness, and they'd rather die than hurt another person or continue to live in pain. I suppose in your estimation, it would be best if they just offed themselves rather than continuing to burden the population. I'm sure it was a traumatic experience for the homeowner and I hope she gets all the help and assistance she needs to feel whole again. But suggesting that people experiencing psychosis should just be put in prison is neither helpful nor accurate. Even when the woman here in Texas heard voices that told her to kill her five children, she was remanded to a mental hospital, not prison. Want to prevent people from being hurt by mental health issues (their own or others)? Stop saying that people experiencing psychosis belong in prison. How nice for you that you don't love anyone with mental health issues, to make such a statement. (And for the peas who liked that hateful statement, I see you. I see you. Shame on you.) You seem to be putting an awful lot of words into my mouth. I said depending on the circumstances, some of those more controlled environments could be appropriate. The rest of your post is all yours. No, I'm calling you out for broad-brushing mental health issues in with criminal activity, and showing you the possible result of the *choice* to frame your argument that way. Do better.
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Post by epeanymous on Aug 7, 2022 22:56:11 GMT
I don't know what happened. I can say I had a lot of clients with severe mental health issues who also had severe substance use disorders, so it would not shock me if she were having an episode as well as that she was intoxicated.
I don't know any reason I cannot feel for the homeowner, for whom this was awful, and also, if this was a mental health issue, feel for her. I recently had someone blow up my minivan, as people will recall; he was very clearly also having a mental health episode. I can be mad about my minivan and also have compassion for the guy who torched it; I doubt the healthy version of him would have done so.
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scrappinmama
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Post by scrappinmama on Aug 7, 2022 23:17:37 GMT
I don't know what happened. I can say I had a lot of clients with severe mental health issues who also had severe substance use disorders, so it would not shock me if she were having an episode as well as that she was intoxicated. I don't know any reason I cannot feel for the homeowner, for whom this was awful, and also, if this was a mental health issue, feel for her. I recently had someone blow up my minivan, as people will recall; he was very clearly also having a mental health episode. I can be mad about my minivan and also have compassion for the guy who torched it; I doubt the healthy version of him would have done so. I totally agree on all of this. It is possible to have compassion for both sides. It doesn't need to be one way or the other. I just want to say that it is entirely possible that she was drunk and/or on drugs and also suffering from mental illness. Having mental illness doesn't make you evil and it certainly doesn't make you a saint either. What I do know is that it's not unusual for someone with mental illness to medicate themselves through addiction. See Los Angeles skid row for example. It's filled with people with mentally ill addicts. It's heart-breaking. I hate that there aren't enough resources to help people suffering with mental illness. There isn't enough compassion in the world for the suffering that goes on.
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Post by happyOCgirl on Aug 7, 2022 23:23:14 GMT
A van drove into my house by someone with a mental health diagnosis who was having a self proclaimed bad day. I was in the house at the time. I’m lucky that only part of my house was destroyed.
This person also lived in my neighborhood. It was a giant nightmare trying to get my house fixed for a year and a half. I also had to fight with the HOA on why it was taking so long to get fixed (structural support damage, gas lines, roof, etc). The big hole in my house was unsightly and making the driver/other neighbors uncomfortable per the HOA. The HOA board members were also the driver’s friends.
No apologies, no help cleaning up the mess, no one getting out the rodents/cats/birds that made their way into the livable parts of my house. My entire front yard is now hard scape and artificial turf because the liquids that leaked out of his van seeped into the ground and nothing will grow.
The experience was very traumatic. I feel for the homeowner and the rebuilding journey ahead. I don’t have a solution for mental health accidents. I will say it is personally hard to not have something to blame because the person’s actions were out of their hands, even though they physically caused it.
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scrappinmama
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Post by scrappinmama on Aug 7, 2022 23:30:20 GMT
I get it, happyOCgirl. Your feelings of anger are valid. I have an aunt and uncle who were murdered by someone suffering from mental illness. I also have loved ones who suffer from mental illness. So I see both sides to this.
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Post by cindosha on Aug 8, 2022 1:22:54 GMT
Then she has no business drinking and driving a car. Which part of "can't make rational choices" are you incapable of understanding? She didn't kill anyone, playing the "what if" game is stupid. The only person she physically hurt is herself and she'll be dealing with that for a long time - so that should make your sick little mind happy. She still might die - then you can really celebrate! It makes me sad that you are rationalizing the crime she committed. But it doesn’t surprise me. At all.
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Post by cindosha on Aug 8, 2022 1:27:27 GMT
….and in that state she can't make rational choices. Then she has no business drinking and driving a car. And if by some minute chance she wasn’t shitfaced, which I am betting she was, she still has no business driving if she is that far out of reality. And if she was that out of touch with reality, how exactly would you have liked her to make that very rational decision not to drive? You too are rationalizing her crime. By your logic, every criminal who drove drunk, murdered someone or raped children can claim that they were having a psychotic episode so their crime should be excused. I think that is horrific logic.
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Post by ntsf on Aug 8, 2022 1:35:26 GMT
we can all support a vastly reformed and sufficiently funded system to help people with mental illness.
even if you are rich, and famous, the system sucks for everyone..
that's what I care to focus on. we lack controlled environments, therapy, medical staff, housing, money support so you don't starve, support staff ... our society just doesn't help individuals much on any level.
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QueenoftheSloths
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Post by QueenoftheSloths on Aug 8, 2022 2:08:08 GMT
You seem to be putting an awful lot of words into my mouth. I said depending on the circumstances, some of those more controlled environments could be appropriate. The rest of your post is all yours. No, I'm calling you out for broad-brushing mental health issues in with criminal activity, and showing you the possible result of the *choice* to frame your argument that way. Do better. From the first time you quoted me, it was pretty clear that you were on the prowl for someone to attack. You're right, I do need to do better. At blocking you.
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Post by pjaye on Aug 8, 2022 2:30:20 GMT
By your logic, every criminal who drove drunk, murdered someone or raped children can claim that they were having a psychotic episode so their crime should be excused. I think that is horrific logic No that isn't "logic" that's just typical bullshit of your kind who try to twist things into scenarios that don't happen in the real world. Every criminal can't claim psychosis because it's a real thing and people have medical records and documented evidence of doctors and hospitals and psychiatrists and records of medications they've been on and records therapy sessions often going back to their teenage years. Mental illness is real and people have very real histories to back that up. And the legal system has developed ways to determine who is lying about this and who isn't. You're the one who seems to be living in some delusional fantasy world where the media don't report on celebrities and actively cover up for them and people who murder and child rapists are all roaming the streets because they just say they are mentally ill and get off. I guess all the American prisons are just standing empty then? I was right a couple of pages ago - you're just a fucking idiot. You have no grasp on reality and you just run made up bullshit in your head and believe it's a fact. You are the people society needs to be scared of.
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maryannscraps
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Post by maryannscraps on Aug 8, 2022 12:24:08 GMT
And if she was that out of touch with reality, how exactly would you have liked her to make that very rational decision not to drive? You too are rationalizing her crime. By your logic, every criminal who drove drunk, murdered someone or raped children can claim that they were having a psychotic episode so their crime should be excused. I think that is horrific logic. We get it. You believe that mental illness is a character defect that should be criminalized. And that even someone in a psychotic break is completely responsible for their actions. And addiction is always a criminal behavior rather than a way of dealing with mental illness. Go back to the 1800s. And hope you or your family never has to deal with mental illness.
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Sarah*H
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Post by Sarah*H on Aug 8, 2022 13:24:43 GMT
Yes, people sometimes need to be hospitalized for their mental health issues. I’m sure that’s what you meant by a “controlled environment.” Hospital, rehab, prison, conservatorship. There are a number of controlled environments that could be appropriate, depending on what the circumstances are. Hopefully the person who now can no longer feel safe in their own home can also receive help for what must have been a very traumatic experience for them. People keep saying no one was hurt. What about the mental and emotional injuries suffered by this person? It's possible to feel compassion for both parties. In fact, I would say not to feel compassion for both parties is alarming to me. (Unless she was just drunk which is a different story but unlikely given her previous history of psychosis.) Unless you have specifically dealt with someone in the middle of psychosis, it's difficult to explain how HARD and often impossible it is to get someone into a hospital, rehab or conservatorship unless they consent. And you know, since they are PSYCHOTIC, they aren't rational enough to consent to anything. Merge is absolutely right about the stigma related to mental health. And I'll add that the shitty laws surrounding mental illness and incapacity in this country and the lack of ready access to care hurt everyone.
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Post by compeateropeator on Aug 8, 2022 13:31:09 GMT
And if she was that out of touch with reality, how exactly would you have liked her to make that very rational decision not to drive? You too are rationalizing her crime. By your logic, every criminal who drove drunk, murdered someone or raped children can claim that they were having a psychotic episode so their crime should be excused. I think that is horrific logic. I don’t think this is true. I think people can feel really bad for the person whose house was destroyed and still have empathy for Anne IF she was in the midst of a psychotic episode. It does not diminish what happened. Similar to if someone had known heart issues and suddenly had a heart attack when driving and caused a horrific accident. The accident still happened but you can feel a little empathy for the person who caused it. Things are not always one way or the other, there is always a lot of middle ground.
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QueenoftheSloths
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Post by QueenoftheSloths on Aug 8, 2022 13:42:47 GMT
Hospital, rehab, prison, conservatorship. There are a number of controlled environments that could be appropriate, depending on what the circumstances are. Hopefully the person who now can no longer feel safe in their own home can also receive help for what must have been a very traumatic experience for them. People keep saying no one was hurt. What about the mental and emotional injuries suffered by this person? It's possible to feel compassion for both parties. In fact, I would say not to feel compassion for both parties is alarming to me. (Unless she was just drunk which is a different story but unlikely given her previous history of psychosis.) Unless you have specifically dealt with someone in the middle of psychosis, it's difficult to explain how HARD and often impossible it is to get someone into a hospital, rehab or conservatorship unless they consent. And you know, since they are PSYCHOTIC, they aren't rational enough to consent to anything. Merge is absolutely right about the stigma related to mental health. And I'll add that the shitty laws surrounding mental illness and incapacity in this country and the lack of ready access to care hurt everyone. I never said I didn't have compassion for both parties. I said for the safety of both parties, a more controlled environment might be a good idea. That is all I said. Now feel free to keep twisting my comments into whatever shape you like.
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Post by Eddie-n-Harley on Aug 8, 2022 13:53:53 GMT
And if she was that out of touch with reality, how exactly would you have liked her to make that very rational decision not to drive? You too are rationalizing her crime. By your logic, every criminal who drove drunk, murdered someone or raped children can claim that they were having a psychotic episode so their crime should be excused. I think that is horrific logic. Lots of them claim it. Few succeed. There are two components to an "insanity" defense. First, one has to have a mental disease or defect. Where the defense typically fails is in the requirement that the mental illness either prevents the person from appreciating the wrongfulness of their conduct OR prevents them from conforming their behavior to the law. This latter point has to be supported by expert testimony. Lots of criminal defendants have some type of mental illness, but most defendants give up the insanity defense when they can't find an expert to testify that the mental illness prevented their understanding. And voluntary intoxication is not a valid defense to anything.
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Sarah*H
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Post by Sarah*H on Aug 8, 2022 14:00:04 GMT
It's possible to feel compassion for both parties. In fact, I would say not to feel compassion for both parties is alarming to me. (Unless she was just drunk which is a different story but unlikely given her previous history of psychosis.) Unless you have specifically dealt with someone in the middle of psychosis, it's difficult to explain how HARD and often impossible it is to get someone into a hospital, rehab or conservatorship unless they consent. And you know, since they are PSYCHOTIC, they aren't rational enough to consent to anything. Merge is absolutely right about the stigma related to mental health. And I'll add that the shitty laws surrounding mental illness and incapacity in this country and the lack of ready access to care hurt everyone. I never said I didn't have compassion for both parties. I said for the safety of both parties, a more controlled environment might be a good idea. That is all I said. Now feel free to keep twisting my comments into whatever shape you like. Well I hadn't responded to any of your posts before so I don't know what you are talking about "twisting your comments." I am taking you at face value. But now I'm irritated. Yeah, sure, a more controlled environment would be a good idea. It would probably be a great idea. I'm sure no one has thought of that before. Super helpful observation. I again point you to the shitty laws and lack of access in this country.
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Post by workingclassdog on Aug 8, 2022 14:04:45 GMT
I can't tell anyone enough times about our mental health offenders here. It's horrific. There is no where to put them but prison. Some of these people (women where I work) are here that do nothing but hurt themselves on a daily basis. We have a small staff that deals with them all day everyday. It's exhausting for them. And plus the shortage of people there is never enough people to hire. There needs to be a safe place somewhere between a mental hospital and prison for them to go to. I have a million sad stories.
I feel empathy for them. Then feel so bad for the victims (like this homeowner)...
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