|
Post by Zee on Oct 16, 2022 22:21:24 GMT
I'm not debating your point, just saying that old "we're smarter than you are, listen up while we talk down to you" doesn't help. Is that really what's being said by the Democratic mainstream, though? Or is that just how the other side spins it? As a Democrat, I can certainly say I hear it whether it's directed at me or not. You'd be foolish to not acknowledge that it hurts rather than helps. Not that I advocate for dumbing things down (that's what's happened to Republicans), but the attitude of liberals often sucks. As I said--we're here now, can't go back. Interested to see what lies forward. We were here in the 1820s as well, things tend to even themselves out.
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Oct 16, 2022 22:25:44 GMT
Addendum: anyone watching playoff baseball on FS1 this past week has been treated to the repeated showing of an absolutely disgusting and wholly inaccurate ad about immigrants and Democratic immigration policy - some of which we've seen echoed in posts by GOP voters here. These are being shown during broadcasts that many young kids are watching. www.inquirer.com/opinion/commentary/citizens-for-sanity-tv-ads-republicans-20221016.htmlBut we're supposed to try to reach out to these people with kindness and understanding.
|
|
|
Post by Gem Girl on Oct 16, 2022 22:28:32 GMT
I'm not debating your point, just saying that old "we're smarter than you are, listen up while we talk down to you" doesn't help. Both parties look down on adherents of the other to some extent. But only Democrats are being exhorted to try to win over the other side by being more understanding.
Along the lines of the family's older child having to tolerate being spat on by the "baby," without responding, because she's "older and should know better," perhaps. I think that when the baby has started bringing weapons and storming the house, that line of reasoning may have outlived its usefulness.
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Oct 16, 2022 22:30:38 GMT
Both parties look down on adherents of the other to some extent. But only Democrats are being exhorted to try to win over the other side by being more understanding.
Along the lines of the family's older child having to tolerate being spat on by the "baby," without responding, because she's "older and should know better," perhaps. I think that when the baby has started bringing weapons and storming the house, that line of reasoning may have outlived its usefulness. Or when the baby's rhetoric gets people killed, or encourages death threats, doxxing, and other forms of intimidation and harassment. Or when the baby's policy seeks to oppress and disenfranchise large groups of the population.
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Oct 16, 2022 22:32:07 GMT
I am amazed that a lot of retired vote Republican when those guys wanna cut Medicare Medicaid and Social Security and refuse to try to control the price of drugs. I amaze that blue-collar workers vote Republican because republicans trickle down economics just work for the wealthy . I am amazed at any woman who vote republicans when they are trying to take control over our body’s and refuse to pass sensible guns laws to protect our schools age children. And don’t get me started on the hypocrisy of the evangelicals Interesting (if overly simple) article on why people vote against their own self-interest. www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/cutting-edge-leadership/201712/why-do-people-vote-against-their-best-interestsI think it's important to note that this happens on both sides. Democrats might pay higher taxes but vote for their candidates anyway because of social policies. More here on voting against your own economic interests. It's a long article, and I don't agree with all of it, but here are a couple of excerpts. www.nytimes.com/2022/09/14/opinion/elites-populists-political-beliefs.htmlOn the right, millions of working- and middle-class whites have shifted their focus away from the goal of income redistribution — an objective Democrats have customarily promoted — to support the Republican preference for traditional, even reactionary, sociocultural values. At the same time, college-educated white voters have come to support tax and spending initiatives that subordinate their own financial self-interest in favor of redistribution and liberal social values. so-called “social issues” (abortion, gun control, etc.) predominate over “economic issues” (taxation, redistributive policy, etc.). Second, how many white Democrats have become far more liberal since Obama, and even more so since Trump, especially on “racial issues”? Third, the relative affluence of these white liberals.
|
|
|
Post by Gem Girl on Oct 16, 2022 22:32:43 GMT
Addendum: anyone watching playoff baseball on FS1 this past week has been treated to the repeated showing of an absolutely disgusting and wholly inaccurate ad about immigrants and Democratic immigration policy - some of which we've seen echoed in posts by GOP voters here. These are being shown during broadcasts that many young kids are watching. www.inquirer.com/opinion/commentary/citizens-for-sanity-tv-ads-republicans-20221016.htmlBut we're supposed to try to reach out to these people with kindness and understanding. That ad is repulsive; I certainly hope it's as short-lived as the Horton one was. But, stoking panic without regard to the facts is the "cool, new approach" to political ads, it seems. I don't believe TV political ads for either side, at this point.
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Oct 16, 2022 22:35:34 GMT
Addendum: anyone watching playoff baseball on FS1 this past week has been treated to the repeated showing of an absolutely disgusting and wholly inaccurate ad about immigrants and Democratic immigration policy - some of which we've seen echoed in posts by GOP voters here. These are being shown during broadcasts that many young kids are watching. www.inquirer.com/opinion/commentary/citizens-for-sanity-tv-ads-republicans-20221016.htmlBut we're supposed to try to reach out to these people with kindness and understanding. That ad is repulsive; I certainly hope it's as short-lived as the Horton one was. But, stoking panic without regard to the facts is the "cool, new approach" to political ads, it seems. I don't believe TV political ads for either side, at this point. Especially ones paid for by super PACs. Those seem more extreme, less reality and fact based. The Senate race in NH is fairly competitive, both sides are pouring money in, so we're inundated with political ads.
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Oct 16, 2022 22:59:22 GMT
More on voting against your economic interests www.nytimes.com/2021/11/04/briefing/democrats-election-working-class-voters.htmlPeople vote based less on their income and more on their cultural attitudes, as my colleague Nate Cohn has explained. Sometimes, these attitudes are related to specific matters of policy, like immigration or abortion. Other times, they involve more personal subjects, like religion or patriotism.
“As they’ve grown in numbers, college graduates have instilled increasingly liberal cultural norms while gaining the power to nudge the Democratic Party to the left,” Nate wrote. “Partly as a result, large portions of the party’s traditional working-class base have defected to the Republicans.”
The defections have increased over the past decade. Barack Obama won voters without a bachelor’s degree in both of his presidential victories. Biden lost them narrowly last year. In Virginia this week, McAuliffe was trounced — by between 10 and 20 percentage points, depending on the exit poll — among voters without a bachelor’s degree. He particularly lost ground with white working-class women, according to CNN.
Race plays an important role here. Republicans — including Donald Trump, but not limited to him — have won more working-class votes partly by appealing to white identity. In Virginia, Glenn Youngkin, the Republican governor-elect, used a version of this strategy. He went so far as to release an ad in which a white mother complained about her son’s high school class reading a classic novel by Toni Morrison.
But many Democrats have made the mistake of believing that the working-class shift is all about racism. It’s not. Consider that the contemporary Democrat who fared best with the white working class was Obama. Or that some divisive cultural debates, like those involving religion, don’t map neatly onto race.
The clearest sign that the shift involves both racial and other causes comes from recent election results: Democrats are no longer doing as well as they once did in Asian, Black and Latino communities. Trump fared better with voters of color in 2020 than in 2016. In Virginia, some of McAuliffe’s most disappointing totals came in heavily Hispanic precincts, according to Nate’s analysis.
This year’s mayoral election in New York offered a similar lesson. Eric Adams beat more liberal Democratic candidates with an anti-crime message that appealed to a multiracial coalition of working-class voters across the Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island. The only borough Adams lost in the primary was affluent, highly educated Manhattan.
If Democrats are going to win more of these voters, they will probably need to listen to them and make some changes, rather than telling them that they’re irrational for voting Republican. www.nytimes.com/2021/09/08/us/politics/how-college-graduates-vote.htmlHow Educational Differences Are Widening America’s Political Rift College graduates are now a firmly Democratic bloc, and they are shaping the party’s future. Those without degrees, by contrast, have flocked to Republicans.
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Oct 16, 2022 23:15:04 GMT
A side note about how Democrats are losing white working class voters www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/06/24/democrats-white-working-class-00041807What Republicans Know (and Democrats Don’t) About the White Working Class There’s an important social and economic divide that drives working-class whites that progressive elites mostly miss — to their political peril. As a scholar studying working-class and rural whites, I have written about this subtle but consequential divide. I have also lived it. I grew up working-class white, and I watched my truck driver father and teacher’s aide mother struggle mightily to stay on the “settled” side of the ledger. They worked to pay the bills, yes, but also because work set them apart from those in their community who were willing to accept public benefits. Work represented the moral high ground. Work was their religion.
As important as this divide is to understanding working-class whites — and in spite of national publicity by big-name scholars and journalists — coastal and urban progressives often seem oblivious to it. This may be because few have any meaningful interaction with either faction of the white working class. Outsiders struggle to grasp the significance of this class war that rages within our nation’s broader class war.
But this war within a war animates a lot of voters. It also drives a lot of policy decisions, including work requirements for Medicaid and food stamps (SNAP) imposed by red state governors and legislatures, just as the Clinton administration did for welfare (TANF) a quarter century ago.
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Oct 16, 2022 23:32:16 GMT
A side note about how Democrats are losing white working class voters www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/06/24/democrats-white-working-class-00041807What Republicans Know (and Democrats Don’t) About the White Working Class There’s an important social and economic divide that drives working-class whites that progressive elites mostly miss — to their political peril. As a scholar studying working-class and rural whites, I have written about this subtle but consequential divide. I have also lived it. I grew up working-class white, and I watched my truck driver father and teacher’s aide mother struggle mightily to stay on the “settled” side of the ledger. They worked to pay the bills, yes, but also because work set them apart from those in their community who were willing to accept public benefits. Work represented the moral high ground. Work was their religion.
As important as this divide is to understanding working-class whites — and in spite of national publicity by big-name scholars and journalists — coastal and urban progressives often seem oblivious to it. This may be because few have any meaningful interaction with either faction of the white working class. Outsiders struggle to grasp the significance of this class war that rages within our nation’s broader class war.
But this war within a war animates a lot of voters. It also drives a lot of policy decisions, including work requirements for Medicaid and food stamps (SNAP) imposed by red state governors and legislatures, just as the Clinton administration did for welfare (TANF) a quarter century ago.In your opinion, how should Democratic rhetoric and policymaking change to engage those voters? What can we realistically do to combat the false message they're hearing from the GOP that Democrats want to give their money to lazy urban dwellers and immigrants who come here for free money? I guess where I'm coming from is that it's hard to combat the wild-eyed fanaticism and scare-mongering of the GOP with rational discourse. We've tried. We've been trying. Democrats have long been excoriated for being too wonky, too dry, too unlikeable. How do you talk sense into people who show a strong preference for the foaming rhetoric of Fox News? (And I would say to the writer of that piece that she's just contributing to the false notion that Democrats don't appreciate hard work.)
|
|
|
Post by onelasttime on Oct 17, 2022 1:05:27 GMT
I guess here’s your answer to the question…
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 5:13:12 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2022 2:34:50 GMT
There seems to be a correlation between religious belief and party voting and I think that is a stronger link than stupidity/IQ. It is the same here in Australia - the religious favour the right leaning party (called Liberal Party - how ironic). That party holds similar values to the GOP but they haven't gone full Trump yet.
It seems a common trait in religious and GOP voters to suspend disbelief and lean into mystical ways that 'man' is just too ignorant to understand and so therefore they should believe it regardless of facts, logic, or otherwise.
I mean, how can you argue with a toddler who strongly believes in Santa Claus? Do you call them stupid?
Also, my correlation statement doesn't apply to all religious people or all GOP voters...there are always exceptions, albeit small. It's a generalisation with research to back it up.
|
|
|
Post by MissBianca on Oct 17, 2022 2:55:59 GMT
They aren’t stupid, they are willfully ignorant. Heads buried in the sand so they don’t have to admit they were conned by a snake oil salesman. And so they can just be the victim and blame someone else instead of owning up to their mistakes.
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Oct 17, 2022 3:08:15 GMT
A side note about how Democrats are losing white working class voters www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/06/24/democrats-white-working-class-00041807What Republicans Know (and Democrats Don’t) About the White Working Class There’s an important social and economic divide that drives working-class whites that progressive elites mostly miss — to their political peril. As a scholar studying working-class and rural whites, I have written about this subtle but consequential divide. I have also lived it. I grew up working-class white, and I watched my truck driver father and teacher’s aide mother struggle mightily to stay on the “settled” side of the ledger. They worked to pay the bills, yes, but also because work set them apart from those in their community who were willing to accept public benefits. Work represented the moral high ground. Work was their religion.
As important as this divide is to understanding working-class whites — and in spite of national publicity by big-name scholars and journalists — coastal and urban progressives often seem oblivious to it. This may be because few have any meaningful interaction with either faction of the white working class. Outsiders struggle to grasp the significance of this class war that rages within our nation’s broader class war.
But this war within a war animates a lot of voters. It also drives a lot of policy decisions, including work requirements for Medicaid and food stamps (SNAP) imposed by red state governors and legislatures, just as the Clinton administration did for welfare (TANF) a quarter century ago.In your opinion, how should Democratic rhetoric and policymaking change to engage those voters? What can we realistically do to combat the false message they're hearing from the GOP that Democrats want to give their money to lazy urban dwellers and immigrants who come here for free money? I guess where I'm coming from is that it's hard to combat the wild-eyed fanaticism and scare-mongering of the GOP with rational discourse. We've tried. We've been trying. Democrats have long been excoriated for being too wonky, too dry, too unlikeable. How do you talk sense into people who show a strong preference for the foaming rhetoric of Fox News? (And I would say to the writer of that piece that she's just contributing to the false notion that Democrats don't appreciate hard work.) Excellent question. I think the NYT article may be on the right track. Democrats won't be able to change the minds of some voters, especially those with racist attitudes. I think Democrats need to make an effort to reach out to moderates and to really listen. I think Beto does this really well by going to rural areas, connecting with people and going door to door. Democrats tend to write off rural areas as lost causes. Democrats might need to make a few compromises to win over moderate voters. And Democrats can't win by avoiding issues that are important to moderates like inflation and the economy. I also think Democrats need to push back harder and call out Republican lies. www.nytimes.com/2021/11/04/briefing/democrats-election-working-class-voters.htmlValues, not white papers
I don’t mean to suggest that there are easy answers for the Democratic Party. The rightward drift of workers has been an international phenomenon. Yet unless Democrats try to address their working-class slide — which has room to become worse — they may struggle to hold power in coming years, especially in the Senate.
What are their options? Democrats can’t win over the working class by talking about only economic issues, any more than Republicans can win Scarsdale simply by saying “Tax cuts now!” Policy proposals, of any kind, may not even be the full answer: Some political scientists believe that Democrats talk too much about policy and not enough about values. Regardless, Democrats likely do need to write off some voters because of their racial attitudes.
Still, that would leave tens of millions of working-class Americans who are open to voting for Democrats without being loyal to the party. These voters span racial groups. They tend to be worried about crime and political correctness, however they define it. They have mixed feelings about immigration and abortion laws. They favor many progressive positions on economic policy. They are skeptical of experts. Most believe in God and in a strong America.
If Democrats are going to win more of these voters, they will probably need to listen to them and make some changes, rather than telling them that they’re irrational for voting Republican. Over the past generation, Democrats have won over more college graduates by listening to them — and then creating a party that reflects their views on almost every issue. Politics is hard, but it is not always mysterious.
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Oct 17, 2022 13:57:21 GMT
In your opinion, how should Democratic rhetoric and policymaking change to engage those voters? What can we realistically do to combat the false message they're hearing from the GOP that Democrats want to give their money to lazy urban dwellers and immigrants who come here for free money? I guess where I'm coming from is that it's hard to combat the wild-eyed fanaticism and scare-mongering of the GOP with rational discourse. We've tried. We've been trying. Democrats have long been excoriated for being too wonky, too dry, too unlikeable. How do you talk sense into people who show a strong preference for the foaming rhetoric of Fox News? (And I would say to the writer of that piece that she's just contributing to the false notion that Democrats don't appreciate hard work.) Excellent question. I think the NYT article may be on the right track. Democrats won't be able to change the minds of some voters, especially those with racist attitudes. I think Democrats need to make an effort to reach out to moderates and to really listen. I think Beto does this really well by going to rural areas, connecting with people and going door to door. Democrats tend to write off rural areas as lost causes. Democrats might need to make a few compromises to win over moderate voters. And Democrats can't win by avoiding issues that are important to moderates like inflation and the economy. I also think Democrats need to push back harder and call out Republican lies. www.nytimes.com/2021/11/04/briefing/democrats-election-working-class-voters.htmlValues, not white papers
I don’t mean to suggest that there are easy answers for the Democratic Party. The rightward drift of workers has been an international phenomenon. Yet unless Democrats try to address their working-class slide — which has room to become worse — they may struggle to hold power in coming years, especially in the Senate.
What are their options? Democrats can’t win over the working class by talking about only economic issues, any more than Republicans can win Scarsdale simply by saying “Tax cuts now!” Policy proposals, of any kind, may not even be the full answer: Some political scientists believe that Democrats talk too much about policy and not enough about values. Regardless, Democrats likely do need to write off some voters because of their racial attitudes.
Still, that would leave tens of millions of working-class Americans who are open to voting for Democrats without being loyal to the party. These voters span racial groups. They tend to be worried about crime and political correctness, however they define it. They have mixed feelings about immigration and abortion laws. They favor many progressive positions on economic policy. They are skeptical of experts. Most believe in God and in a strong America.
If Democrats are going to win more of these voters, they will probably need to listen to them and make some changes, rather than telling them that they’re irrational for voting Republican. Over the past generation, Democrats have won over more college graduates by listening to them — and then creating a party that reflects their views on almost every issue. Politics is hard, but it is not always mysterious.
I'm not sure at this point if we're talking about Democratic leaders, candidates or their surrogates, or Democratic voters. To my knowledge, Democratic candidates are (like Beto and many others) going out and listening to people. I've never heard a Democratic elected official refer to anyone as stupid in the context of who they vote for. Some are getting better about calling out lies. So who is it, exactly, that needs to change? I feel like some of these articles address a problem that doesn't actually exist. The problem isn't what Democrats are saying. It's what Republicans are saying. Regardless of what issue is most important to moderate voters, Republicans are doing an excellent job of scaring them into thinking the Democrats will destroy it. A candidate can listen to concerns and say, I hear you, but what you fear isn't happening in any meaningful way. They can listen and say, here's data that shows that what you've been hearing isn't true. They can listen and say, I hear you, and here's what Democrats want to do to change that problem, but for the most part, the fears the GOP has drummed up don't exist or aren't necessarily the fault of Democratic leadership. How does a candidate counter that?
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Oct 17, 2022 14:59:49 GMT
I think you're right. I know my Representative does a great job reaching out to people, talking to people, going to community events etc. It's mostly liberals on twitter and other social media (like James Carville) posting condescending comments about the intelligence of Republicans.
I don't know how to counter the fear mongering by Republicans. You can talk about facts but I don't know how to ease the fears of people who are afraid of migrant caravans, migrant invasions bringing fetanyl over the border, giving fetanyl candy to kids on Halloween, taking your jobs etc.
I also don't know how to counter the lies about election fraud. Republicans are convinced of the non-existent fraud. Facts and logic don't convince them. Unless a Republican wins, they're suspicious of fraud.
|
|
|
Post by nightnurse on Oct 17, 2022 15:20:02 GMT
I don’t think there’s much the dems can do. The republicans decry the “elites” and suggest we need to listen to the “working class” and then mock AOC for being “just a bartender.” I have to hear how Biden must be senile because he misspeaks and then pretend Lauren Boebert is just as smart as everyone else while she tweets “two words: let’s go Brandon.” I do not think the dems are portraying themselves as the elites, I think that’s Republican propaganda and sadly they are very effective with their “alternative facts.”
|
|
|
Post by compeateropeator on Oct 17, 2022 15:35:11 GMT
I have to admit I am really sick of all your (NH) ads. Seeing Vermont’s are bad enough but our stations show VT, NH and upstate NY’s. So we see them for Elise Stefanik and Don Bolduc also, and they are running them ALL the time.
I do have to admit the person who was running again Elise Stefanik in the primary whose main ad was that “Elise is too busy kissing Trump’s ass to look after out for ours” was one of my favorites.
And as a side note we have a lot of Bolducs and pronounce it Ball-Duke not Bowl-Duck, and that drives me crazy. 😆😆
|
|
|
Post by spottiedottie on Oct 17, 2022 16:23:31 GMT
I don’t think there’s much the dems can do. The republicans decry the “elites” and suggest we need to listen to the “working class” and then mock AOC for being “just a bartender.” I have to hear how Biden must be senile because he misspeaks and then pretend Lauren Boebert is just as smart as everyone else while she tweets “two words: let’s go Brandon.” I do not think the dems are portraying themselves as the elites, I think that’s Republican propaganda and sadly they are very effective with their “alternative facts.” People mock AOC because she was a bartender just a few years ago (nothing wrong with that, imo) but now, at 33 years old, presents herself as an experienced and knowledgeable statesman, which she is not. She campaigned on being new, fresh, and a Washington outsider and yet has glommed onto being a celebrity like no one else. And I can't let the Lauren Boebert thing go. On Friday, October 7, Joe Biden was in Hagerstown, Maryland and started his speech off with this: "Let me start off with two words, Made in America!" Boebert then went on Twitter and tweeted: "Two words, Let's Go Brandon!" David Hogg and George Takei and others were quick to mock her for being incredibly stupid but had nothing to say about Biden. Boebert is not the stupid one here. If you think she is, but will still defend Biden then you are one of the people that Republicans think of as elite. The attitude of "my side can say whatever they want because they are smart and good and noble and your side is evil and stupid EVEN WHEN SAYING THE SAME THINGS then that is a problem.
|
|
|
Post by nightnurse on Oct 17, 2022 16:32:19 GMT
I don’t think there’s much the dems can do. The republicans decry the “elites” and suggest we need to listen to the “working class” and then mock AOC for being “just a bartender.” I have to hear how Biden must be senile because he misspeaks and then pretend Lauren Boebert is just as smart as everyone else while she tweets “two words: let’s go Brandon.” I do not think the dems are portraying themselves as the elites, I think that’s Republican propaganda and sadly they are very effective with their “alternative facts.” People mock AOC because she was a bartender just a few years ago (nothing wrong with that, imo) but now, at 33 years old, presents herself as an experienced and knowledgeable statesman, which she is not. She campaigned on being new, fresh, and a Washington outsider and yet has glommed onto being a celebrity like no one else. And I can't let the Lauren Boebert thing go. On Friday, October 7, Joe Biden was in Hagerstown, Maryland and started his speech off with this: "Let me start off with two words, Made in America!" Boebert then went on Twitter and tweeted: "Two words, Let's Go Brandon!" David Hogg and George Takei and others were quick to mock her for being incredibly stupid but had nothing to say about Biden. Boebert is not the stupid one here. If you think she is, but will still defend Biden then you are one of the people that Republicans think of as elite. The attitude of "my side can say whatever they want because they are smart and good and noble and your side is evil and stupid EVEN WHEN SAYING THE SAME THINGS then that is a problem. When democrats are caught doing things we don’t like, we ask them to resign (see the recent Los Angeles city council members, Al Franken). And I just don’t get the hate for AOC, especially when compared to people like MTG with her peach tree dishes and the gazpacho police. If I think Boebert is stupid, then I’m an elite? I’ve listened to her talk about how religion is supposed to control government and there is no separation of church and state. I suppose she could be pandering to her voters and actually does understand and is just pretending.
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Oct 17, 2022 16:34:06 GMT
I don’t think there’s much the dems can do. The republicans decry the “elites” and suggest we need to listen to the “working class” and then mock AOC for being “just a bartender.” I have to hear how Biden must be senile because he misspeaks and then pretend Lauren Boebert is just as smart as everyone else while she tweets “two words: let’s go Brandon.” I do not think the dems are portraying themselves as the elites, I think that’s Republican propaganda and sadly they are very effective with their “alternative facts.” People mock AOC because she was a bartender just a few years ago (nothing wrong with that, imo) but now, at 33 years old, presents herself as an experienced and knowledgeable statesman, which she is not. She campaigned on being new, fresh, and a Washington outsider and yet has glommed onto being a celebrity like no one else. And I can't let the Lauren Boebert thing go. On Friday, October 7, Joe Biden was in Hagerstown, Maryland and started his speech off with this: "Let me start off with two words, Made in America!" Boebert then went on Twitter and tweeted: "Two words, Let's Go Brandon!" David Hogg and George Takei and others were quick to mock her for being incredibly stupid but had nothing to say about Biden. Boebert is not the stupid one here. If you think she is, but will still defend Biden then you are one of the people that Republicans think of as elite. The attitude of "my side can say whatever they want because they are smart and good and noble and your side is evil and stupid EVEN WHEN SAYING THE SAME THINGS then that is a problem. She was a bartender who got a degree in international relations and economics from Boston University. Is it elitist to say she might be a bit more qualified for the job than Boebert?
|
|
casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,474
Jun 29, 2014 14:40:44 GMT
|
Post by casii on Oct 17, 2022 16:45:48 GMT
With regards to my family members who support these people, they would tell you it's all about being pro-life. They see in black and white. If you get pregnant, it's because boys will be boys and girls are sluts if they can't manage to remain saints. They firmly believe there are 2 camps: Republicans are Christians and Democrats who cannot possibly be good people. That's the simple answer. Therefore, according to them, I am no longer a good person.
If you were to see their social media or spend time at the holiday dinner table, you would hear fear based feelings presented as facts. You would hear a lot of racial and any religion that's not "Christian" jokes, off color comments or outright condemnation. You would even hear from the older contingent that they're fine with cutting social security and medicare for anyone who is currently under 60 or 65 as long as they get theirs since they paid in (implying the rest of us have not paid our fair share). They believe white men should be in charge. That women are to be submissive. It's fine if they work, but in female-centric roles. You would hear that no one wants to work, employers can't find employees and illegals are taking all our jobs; often in a run on sentence. That young people believe everything should be handed to them (for the record, young is anyone under 60. If you're under 40, are you even out of your short pants Son?).
In my neighborhood: At our local fair, there was a dust up at the Republican tent when a moderate Republican stopped by to visit and was then verbally attacked for his views. It made the Washington Post which is odd because we're not an important county or location. That's how ridiculous the attack on the moderate was. We have a lot of candidates who are of the Trump, MTG modeling variety. Say the most outrageous thing you can think a far right person could say and they're running on it. It's slowly dragging all of us from moderate Republicans to the American version of Far Left, to the right so that what was once outrageous becomes an accepted norm.
I'm sure I added too much in some regards and not enough in some ways. But hey, I'm not a good person. Bwahahahaha
|
|
|
Post by annie on Oct 17, 2022 17:02:01 GMT
Many are, yes, but many are not. Many are gullible victims of repeated disinformation because they only watch Fox News. It's brainwashing for years and years and years, painting Dems as elitists who look down their noses at regular folk.
My mom, however, is not stupid. She is a one issue voter, though. Democrats kill babies and republicans do not. It allllways comes back to that for her.
I can't have any sort of normal discussion about politics with any of my extended family any longer. They have been lost to Fox News and Breitbart and Hannity etc. It is extremely depressing. They talk about me and my kids behind our backs as the "libtards". Yet they worship Trump and go to his rallies and seem oddly obsessed with trans people. And want to move to FL to be with DeSantis smh.
It's like I am in an alternate universe from reality.
|
|
|
Post by compeateropeator on Oct 17, 2022 17:03:31 GMT
I have a very hard time identifying intelligence, logical thinking, wisdom, etc with one’s occupational choice. I guess I am from a place where some of the most surprising people can be well read and considered intelligent. And I have seen a lot of professionals and white collar workers who are not. I have a middle of the road opinion of AOC. I agree with some of her opinions/policies and disagree with others. I think she is villainized by many Republicans but she has also done things that I just shake my head at and think how could you not seen that was a not well thought out move.
I also understand that Lauren Boebert was just mocking Biden with her I have two words tweet and not sure how others don’t see that when looking at the big picture/the reason behind why she posted that. However I do find it very hard to understand how anyone paying attention and actually listening/looking at what she is saying/tweeting can actually say you believe her intelligence and wisdom are greater than President Biden’s. I also have a hard time believing that people think she is more pro American and purported patriot than President Biden or democrats.
|
|
|
Post by iamkristinl16 on Oct 17, 2022 17:41:13 GMT
Twitter is full of examples like this of Democrats referring to Republican supporters as stupid, questioning their critical thinking skills, questioning their intelligence etc. Condescension, superiority, elitism, criticism and negative stereotypes towards voters will not help Democrats, it's part of the reason why Hillary lost in 2016. Democrats need to recognize that Trump supporters, MAGA Republicans etc believe in Trump just as passionately as Democrats believe in democracy and liberal ideas. I disagree wholeheartedly with their politics, but people voting for Walker, Johnson, MTG and others are not stupid. One could argue that the propaganda machine of Republicans and conservative media has successfully convinced voters of non-existent fraud, white washed the history of Jan 6, stirred up racism, xenophobia, anti-LGBTQ, anti-Semitism with false claims about the border, false claims about crime and the constant culture wars. That doesn't make the people that believe all of the Republican lies stupid. Just as there are single issue Democratic voters, there are single issue Republican voters. Making gun rights, abortion, economic policies etc a priority and overlooking everything else doesn't make voters stupid. This is another reason why Republican politicians continue to support candidates like Walker, Johnson and MTG. The same reason people vote for them. Republican politicians care about power over anything else. Mitch McConnell told CNN this week, he doesn't have a litmus test, he doesn't care if candidates are more like Trump or Cheney, as long as they have an R after their name. www.cnn.com/2022/10/11/politics/mitch-mcconnell-interview-midterm-cliffhanger“I’m for people that get the Republican nomination, and for winning, because if we win we get to decide what the agenda is, and they don’t.”www.nytimes.com/2022/10/15/opinion/walker-warnock-debate.htmlWalker is devastatingly inarticulate. That is the fact of the matter, and a disqualifying one. This is not a dialectic issue, of which I am more understanding. Regional and cultural dialects are real and not a measure of intelligence. That’s not what’s happening with Walker. With him, there is a base inability to convey his ideas in complete thoughts or sentences. And like a child, when his words fail, he fills in the gaps with energy and emotion, hostility and humor.
This cheap rhetorical trick works for Republicans. They want the fighter more than the philosopher, the class jock over the class president. As long as the candidate is on their side, it doesn’t matter if he’s up to par, because at the end of the day, they are voting for the power over the person.
They will elect a man without command of the English language or the issues if it gives them command of the seat and the Senate. Walker’s debate performance was just designed to allay their fears, to make them think better about doing the unthinkable.
Democrats criticize conservatives for "echo chambers" but I think Democrats living in deeply blue states are guilty of living in their own little bubbles. My friends, family and most of my co-workers are Democrats, but I live in a swing state. There are still Trump flags up, flags on the back of pick ups, political signs for Republican candidates etc. everywhere. Just last week, the Republican candidate for Senate said this Women "get the best voice" when men make health care decisions for them. www.newsweek.com/gop-candidate-abortion-decisions-belong-gentlemen-legislators-1750287I disagree passionately with their politics, but I don't think some of my neighbors are stupid for voting for Republicans. I hate to break it to you, but Twitter is full of Republicans doing the same exact thing. They have been doing that for years. Why do they not get called out for their BS? It is always Democrats who are held to a higher standard, and are expected to go high when they are always in the gutter. That hasn't worked, but apparently calling out the lies and the idiocy/hypocrisy/willful ignorance/whatever you want to call it is "elitist" and "condescending" and we "have to work to understand them." When will they be asked to be accountable for their actions and words?
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Oct 17, 2022 17:44:59 GMT
People mock AOC because she was a bartender just a few years ago (nothing wrong with that, imo) but now, at 33 years old, presents herself as an experienced and knowledgeable statesman, which she is not. She campaigned on being new, fresh, and a Washington outsider and yet has glommed onto being a celebrity like no one else. And I can't let the Lauren Boebert thing go. On Friday, October 7, Joe Biden was in Hagerstown, Maryland and started his speech off with this: "Let me start off with two words, Made in America!" Boebert then went on Twitter and tweeted: "Two words, Let's Go Brandon!" David Hogg and George Takei and others were quick to mock her for being incredibly stupid but had nothing to say about Biden. Boebert is not the stupid one here. If you think she is, but will still defend Biden then you are one of the people that Republicans think of as elite. The attitude of "my side can say whatever they want because they are smart and good and noble and your side is evil and stupid EVEN WHEN SAYING THE SAME THINGS then that is a problem. When democrats are caught doing things we don’t like, we ask them to resign (see the recent Los Angeles city council members, Al Franken). And I just don’t get the hate for AOC, especially when compared to people like MTG with her peach tree dishes and the gazpacho police. If I think Boebert is stupid, then I’m an elite? I’ve listened to her talk about how religion is supposed to control government and there is no separation of church and state. I suppose she could be pandering to her voters and actually does understand and is just pretending. MTG and Lauren Boebert are politicians and in my opinion, open to criticism if they say something stupid. James Carville calling all Republicans stupid is different.
|
|
|
Post by onelasttime on Oct 17, 2022 17:45:02 GMT
I don’t think there’s much the dems can do. The republicans decry the “elites” and suggest we need to listen to the “working class” and then mock AOC for being “just a bartender.” I have to hear how Biden must be senile because he misspeaks and then pretend Lauren Boebert is just as smart as everyone else while she tweets “two words: let’s go Brandon.” I do not think the dems are portraying themselves as the elites, I think that’s Republican propaganda and sadly they are very effective with their “alternative facts.” People mock AOC because she was a bartender just a few years ago (nothing wrong with that, imo) but now, at 33 years old, presents herself as an experienced and knowledgeable statesman, which she is not. She campaigned on being new, fresh, and a Washington outsider and yet has glommed onto being a celebrity like no one else. And I can't let the Lauren Boebert thing go. On Friday, October 7, Joe Biden was in Hagerstown, Maryland and started his speech off with this: "Let me start off with two words, Made in America!" Boebert then went on Twitter and tweeted: "Two words, Let's Go Brandon!" David Hogg and George Takei and others were quick to mock her for being incredibly stupid but had nothing to say about Biden. Boebert is not the stupid one here. If you think she is, but will still defend Biden then you are one of the people that Republicans think of as elite. The attitude of "my side can say whatever they want because they are smart and good and noble and your side is evil and stupid EVEN WHEN SAYING THE SAME THINGS then that is a problem. The problem with Boebert’s tweet not many people knew it was a “gotcha “ tweet aimed at President Biden. She made an assumption that ultimately made her look foolish instead of her intended target. Which makes one wonder just how bright she is.
|
|
|
Post by onelasttime on Oct 17, 2022 17:58:23 GMT
I’m not a fan of AOC. But I see her potential if she learns when to keep her mouth shut. She is her own worst enemy. IMO But I just checked her Congressional Record and in between getting into this silly scuffles on twitter she has been a busy lady. Some of her stats… Sponsored legislation - 50 Became Law - 25 Introduced - 938 Co-sponsored legislature - 897 Passed one chamber - 125 You can read about it here. link
|
|
|
Post by aj2hall on Oct 17, 2022 17:59:06 GMT
Twitter is full of examples like this of Democrats referring to Republican supporters as stupid, questioning their critical thinking skills, questioning their intelligence etc. Condescension, superiority, elitism, criticism and negative stereotypes towards voters will not help Democrats, it's part of the reason why Hillary lost in 2016. Democrats need to recognize that Trump supporters, MAGA Republicans etc believe in Trump just as passionately as Democrats believe in democracy and liberal ideas. I disagree wholeheartedly with their politics, but people voting for Walker, Johnson, MTG and others are not stupid. One could argue that the propaganda machine of Republicans and conservative media has successfully convinced voters of non-existent fraud, white washed the history of Jan 6, stirred up racism, xenophobia, anti-LGBTQ, anti-Semitism with false claims about the border, false claims about crime and the constant culture wars. That doesn't make the people that believe all of the Republican lies stupid. Just as there are single issue Democratic voters, there are single issue Republican voters. Making gun rights, abortion, economic policies etc a priority and overlooking everything else doesn't make voters stupid. This is another reason why Republican politicians continue to support candidates like Walker, Johnson and MTG. The same reason people vote for them. Republican politicians care about power over anything else. Mitch McConnell told CNN this week, he doesn't have a litmus test, he doesn't care if candidates are more like Trump or Cheney, as long as they have an R after their name. www.cnn.com/2022/10/11/politics/mitch-mcconnell-interview-midterm-cliffhanger“I’m for people that get the Republican nomination, and for winning, because if we win we get to decide what the agenda is, and they don’t.”www.nytimes.com/2022/10/15/opinion/walker-warnock-debate.htmlWalker is devastatingly inarticulate. That is the fact of the matter, and a disqualifying one. This is not a dialectic issue, of which I am more understanding. Regional and cultural dialects are real and not a measure of intelligence. That’s not what’s happening with Walker. With him, there is a base inability to convey his ideas in complete thoughts or sentences. And like a child, when his words fail, he fills in the gaps with energy and emotion, hostility and humor.
This cheap rhetorical trick works for Republicans. They want the fighter more than the philosopher, the class jock over the class president. As long as the candidate is on their side, it doesn’t matter if he’s up to par, because at the end of the day, they are voting for the power over the person.
They will elect a man without command of the English language or the issues if it gives them command of the seat and the Senate. Walker’s debate performance was just designed to allay their fears, to make them think better about doing the unthinkable.
Democrats criticize conservatives for "echo chambers" but I think Democrats living in deeply blue states are guilty of living in their own little bubbles. My friends, family and most of my co-workers are Democrats, but I live in a swing state. There are still Trump flags up, flags on the back of pick ups, political signs for Republican candidates etc. everywhere. Just last week, the Republican candidate for Senate said this Women "get the best voice" when men make health care decisions for them. www.newsweek.com/gop-candidate-abortion-decisions-belong-gentlemen-legislators-1750287I disagree passionately with their politics, but I don't think some of my neighbors are stupid for voting for Republicans. I hate to break it to you, but Twitter is full of Republicans doing the same exact thing. They have been doing that for years. Why do they not get called out for their BS? It is always Democrats who are held to a higher standard, and are expected to go high when they are always in the gutter. That hasn't worked, but apparently calling out the lies and the idiocy/hypocrisy/willful ignorance/whatever you want to call it is "elitist" and "condescending" and we "have to work to understand them." When will they be asked to be accountable for their actions and words? I'm OK with calling Republican politicians stupid. Calling Republican voters stupid for their choices seems unreasonable to me. I understand what you're saying about different standards and high road/ low road. I just think at some point, there's a line to draw with people that you disagree. If someone doesn't draw the line, we will just devolve into name calling, which is where we might be right now.
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Oct 17, 2022 18:28:24 GMT
I hate to break it to you, but Twitter is full of Republicans doing the same exact thing. They have been doing that for years. Why do they not get called out for their BS? It is always Democrats who are held to a higher standard, and are expected to go high when they are always in the gutter. That hasn't worked, but apparently calling out the lies and the idiocy/hypocrisy/willful ignorance/whatever you want to call it is "elitist" and "condescending" and we "have to work to understand them." When will they be asked to be accountable for their actions and words? I'm OK with calling Republican politicians stupid. Calling Republican voters stupid for their choices seems unreasonable to me. I understand what you're saying about different standards and high road/ low road. I just think at some point, there's a line to draw with people that you disagree. If someone doesn't draw the line, we will just devolve into name calling, which is where we might be right now. How often do I need to be called libtard, groomer, or baby killer online before I get to push back? They’ve been calling us stupid since Rush’s “liberalism is a mental disorder” days. It’s only gotten worse. Stupid is mild compared to the things they routinely call Democrats these days. Why is no one concerned about how they’re pushing away moderates with this rhetoric?
|
|