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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 18:36:44 GMT
Not only is Lucy spot on but she also managed to use the correct spelling of defuse.  (taking Christmas card photos today of the neighbors...using my brand new DIFFUSER I purchased from Amazon) (and this by no means is a slam on the individual that used diffuse...because I repeated it several times) I hope your new purchase smells nice and the aroma spreads far and wide  Not a scent diffuser...a light diffuser.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KAWWV3M/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 19:00:26 GMT
 I did wonder what it had to do with the photos of the neighbours....didn't even think of a light diffuser for a camera!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 19:05:42 GMT
I did wonder what it had to do with the photos of the neighbours....didn't even think of a light diffuser for a camera!! HaHa!! |
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Dec 7, 2014 19:11:30 GMT
So far in 2014 108 Law enforcement officers have died in the line of duty. Assault - 2 Gunfire - 43 Vehicular assault - 10 (this doesn't count fire, drowning, vehicular accident, heart attack etc...55 died as a direct result of violence committed against them) The average age of officers killed in the line of duty in 2014 is 41. Not included in the above numbers are 20 K-9 deaths in the line of duty. Gunfire - 5 Stabbing - 2 www.odmp.org/search/year/2014?ref=sidebarI figured since we have spent so much time talking about the criminals who have died at the hands of the police, it's only fair to talk about the officers who were killed at the hands of criminals. With very little media coverage. The media has not been equitable to law enforcement in the coverage of the senseless deaths law enforcement families endure. I see Michael Brown's death differently than Eric Garner. Brown was solely responsible for the events that led to his death. Garner should have been given a ticket for selling loose cigarettes, the tape indicates to me excessive use of force. The supervising Sargent on the scene should have done her job and intervened. |
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likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by likescarrots on Dec 7, 2014 21:16:51 GMT
I don't remember saying anything about any police officer ever. I was talking about two specific instances. If cops can't diffuse situations with unarmed people without killing them, they shouldn't be cops. That people can't grasp that concept is the exact reason that highways and city streets and subway stations and apple stores are filling with people protesting. If you believe that police officers or anyone else can always defuse a situation without using violence that sometimes, intentionally or unintentionally, ends in the death of the suspect, you are living in a dream world. That dream world will wind up creating more dead cops, more dead innocent citizens, more crime in general, fewer good, qualified people willing to work in law enforcement, more dangerous cities, and plenty of other ramifications I can't even think of. Your starry-eyed view of the world law enforcement has to work within would cripple their ability to effectively do the job society expects them to do. The last thing I have is a starry-eyed view of the world, trust me... and once again, I never said EVERY situation can be defused non violently, or even that the situation with michael brown should have been defused non-violently. I do not, however, believe either of THESE situations had to be defused with six bullets at 150 feet away, or a banned choke hold on a person who was allegedly committing a petty crime. And honestly, you're going to call me out for things I didn't even say, but ignore when people say things like 'don't commit a crime, you won't get bothered by the cops'... if THAT isn't a starry eyed view of the world, I don't know what the fuck is. |
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Post by lucyg on Dec 7, 2014 21:33:32 GMT
likescarrots The bolded sentence seemed to include all cops and all situations. If that is not what you intended, I wish you would state your case more clearly so I don't waste my time debating needlessly. I'm sorry to say I can't claim that statement is true all the time in this country. However, you don't get to decide which issues I personally get worked up about enough to argue with strangers on a message board.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Dec 7, 2014 21:55:02 GMT
Whomever the adult is that was responsible for raising Tamir Rice should NEVER have allowed him to alter his toy gun in an attempt to make it look real. Someone should've taught him that when you're out in public, and waving a very real looking toy gun around, aiming at people, that you're going to attract attention. Someone should've taught Tamir Rice that when a police officer approaches you, that you need to follow the directions that the officer gives you. Well there is the ultimate in victim blaming. Can't blame the actual victim? Fine. Blame his parents. That way you can still justify the hell out of killing a kid. "someone didn't teach him right so he deserved to be killed" Brilliant. I want to like this x100. Anyone who can blame Tamir or his family for this needs to stop and really think what if that was their child. |
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likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by likescarrots on Dec 7, 2014 22:17:44 GMT
likescarrots The bolded sentence seemed to include all cops and all situations. If that is not what you intended, I wish you would state your case more clearly so I don't waste my time debating needlessly. I do include all cops in that statement. All cops should attempt to defuse the situation without killing a person, particularly if they know that person is unarmed. I also believe there are plenty of cops who use tactics that don't involve their guns or other deadly force to successfully apprehend suspects, even suspects who resist arrest. |
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Nink
Pearl Clutcher
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Location: North Idaho
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Post by Nink on Dec 7, 2014 22:27:24 GMT
likescarrots The bolded sentence seemed to include all cops and all situations. If that is not what you intended, I wish you would state your case more clearly so I don't waste my time debating needlessly. I do include all cops in that statement. All cops should attempt to defuse the situation without killing a person, particularly if they know that person is unarmed. I also believe there are plenty of cops who use tactics that don't involve their guns or other deadly force to successfully apprehend suspects, even suspects who resist arrest. And wouldn't it be great if those cops got equal airtime?! |
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Post by lucyg on Dec 7, 2014 22:45:21 GMT
likescarrots The bolded sentence seemed to include all cops and all situations. If that is not what you intended, I wish you would state your case more clearly so I don't waste my time debating needlessly. I do include all cops in that statement. All cops should attempt to defuse the situation without killing a person, particularly if they know that person is unarmed. I also believe there are plenty of cops who use tactics that don't involve their guns or other deadly force to successfully apprehend suspects, even suspects who resist arrest. Okay, I give up. You aren't talking about all cops. You are talking about all cops. Whatever works. I'm out. |
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 8, 2014 0:02:17 GMT
Well there is the ultimate in victim blaming. Can't blame the actual victim? Fine. Blame his parents. That way you can still justify the hell out of killing a kid. "someone didn't teach him right so he deserved to be killed" Brilliant. I want to like this x100. Anyone who can blame Tamir or his family for this needs to stop and really think what if that was their child. I cam imagine if it was my child and it would suck ass. It doesn't make the fact that if he hadn't had a realistic looking gun and if he hadn't been pointing it at people, prompting the call to police, and then pointing it at an officer, he would probably still be alive. Sometimes the victims actions create the possibility for the consequence. It doesn't mean someone deserves it, but it does make the chance greater. |
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 8, 2014 0:03:35 GMT
likescarrots The bolded sentence seemed to include all cops and all situations. If that is not what you intended, I wish you would state your case more clearly so I don't waste my time debating needlessly. I do include all cops in that statement. All cops should attempt to defuse the situation without killing a person, particularly if they know that person is unarmed. I also believe there are plenty of cops who use tactics that don't involve their guns or other deadly force to successfully apprehend suspects, even suspects who resist arrest. how do they know for a fact the person is unarmed? And have you never heard of a person killing another without a weapon? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2014 0:45:51 GMT
Well there is the ultimate in victim blaming. Can't blame the actual victim? Fine. Blame his parents. That way you can still justify the hell out of killing a kid. "someone didn't teach him right so he deserved to be killed" Brilliant. I want to like this x100. Anyone who can blame Tamir or his family for this needs to stop and really think what if that was their child. I've got an idea. Let's assume every person waving a gun around in public is carrying a fake gun. When the police arrive, the person with the gun doesn't have to comply. We'll figure out if the gun is real or not based on whether or not bullets come flying out of it.
Great plan. I don't see anything that could go wrong there.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by raindancer on Dec 8, 2014 1:34:40 GMT
A long time ago, i worked in a situation where I had to physically restrain someone. I proper training, retrained at least once a year, and actually used the physical restraint semi-regularly (not daily, but it wasn't months in between either ). I was always very aware that I had the potential to hurt someone if done incorrectly and would do my best to use the least amount of force necessary, but when the person was trying to flip up and kick me in the head, or was stuggli ng and trying hit/kick/bite me, or had a weapon that he would not let go of, the amount of force I asserted went up, not because I was angry or out of control, but because if it hadnt, I would have lost control of the person (fwiw often the restraint was performed by two people and protocol mandated another person who was not physically restrain monitored ). Also the larger/stronger the person, the more force needed to subdue the person. Those of you questioning the amount of force used (not the shootings, but physical force), have you ever had to physically subdue or restrain a person? Yes I have, and someone larger than me on more than one occasion and at no time did I feel the need to employ a choke hold to do so. It's not necessary. |
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by raindancer on Dec 8, 2014 1:36:22 GMT
I want to like this x100. Anyone who can blame Tamir or his family for this needs to stop and really think what if that was their child. I cam imagine if it was my child and it would suck ass. It doesn't make the fact that if he hadn't had a realistic looking gun and if he hadn't been pointing it at people, prompting the call to police, and then pointing it at an officer, he would probably still be alive. Sometimes the victims actions create the possibility for the consequence. It doesn't mean someone deserves it, but it does make the chance greater. And this is where I think race can come into play. Had this boy been white would there have been so much fear? Would the assumption be made that it was reported as fake, probably was fake, and then the situation better assessed before they shot the kid? There are so many subtle things going on in the background that lead to stuff like this. |
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 8, 2014 1:45:44 GMT
I cam imagine if it was my child and it would suck ass. It doesn't make the fact that if he hadn't had a realistic looking gun and if he hadn't been pointing it at people, prompting the call to police, and then pointing it at an officer, he would probably still be alive. Sometimes the victims actions create the possibility for the consequence. It doesn't mean someone deserves it, but it does make the chance greater. And this is where I think race can come into play. Had this boy been white would there have been so much fear? Would the assumption be made that it was reported as fake, probably was fake, and then the situation better assessed before they shot the kid? There are so many subtle things going on in the background that lead to stuff like this. most mass shooters are white. I think the pointing of the gun at people outweighed the race issue. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Dec 8, 2014 2:26:26 GMT
So I am watching the news, and there is a "peaceful protest" on I-95 where the protesters have shut down traffic by walking on the highway. How is it ok to infringe on others rights like this? Can't they protest on the sidewalk? Protest in front of a courthouse on the sidewalk, in front of a police station on the sidewalk? What happens if someone in the cars either gets pissed and confronts a protester or a protester gets injured by a car that is allowed to be on the highway? I'm sorry, but these protests are really out of control and as far as I can tell, useless. Driving on a highway isn't a "right." Highways and streets are closed all the time for a variety of reasons. Every time I run a half marathon or 10K, streets and even highways (Army 10 Miler and Marine Corps Marathon) are closed to car traffic. I understand that protests can be inconvenient, but blocking roads isn't really infringing on someone else's "rights." It's not a matter of being inconvenient--it's putting the lives of people in danger and is a public safety issue! Apparently your have missed the signs that prevent pedestrian traffic on highways such as I-95. People protesting by walking out on major highways not only endanger their own lives, they endanger the lives of drivers. It is irresponsible, ignorant, and in some cases against the law. Those who break those laws should be arrested regardless of their cause. As a driver, I have a right to be safe on the roads I drive and dogging pedestrians who should not be there in the first place is infringing on my safety. |
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by raindancer on Dec 8, 2014 3:13:54 GMT
And this is where I think race can come into play. Had this boy been white would there have been so much fear? Would the assumption be made that it was reported as fake, probably was fake, and then the situation better assessed before they shot the kid? There are so many subtle things going on in the background that lead to stuff like this. most mass shooters are white. I think the pointing of the gun at people outweighed the race issue. Sure they are, but you don't see people going out of their way to avoid white men on the street or in parks or at schools or in movie theaters. Just because it's true doesn't make us suddenly rational. Humans are notoriously irrational. I can concede that if you resist arrest you play a role and you are not just an innocent victim of circumstance. But I cannot say that a 12 yo child, even one behaving in a threatening way (especially when it was assumed already by the people who were there to be a fake weapon) should have been killed on the spot by grown men who are supposedly trained to protect the public. To my mind this is the same as saying that a woman deserved rape and played a role in the violent crime against her because she was too pretty, her skirt was too short or she dared walk outside after dark. |
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julieb
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by julieb on Dec 8, 2014 3:58:06 GMT
It was simply dangerous and stupid for the protestors to walk on the expressway. I was watching a protest live in Chicago and was shocked at the stupidity of some people. They starting to walk on I-90/94 and stopped traffic. The police did get them removed pretty quickly.
If I was on the Dan Ryan and was stopped by protestors I would have been pretty po'd. It's bad enough just dealing with other cars. |
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 8, 2014 4:06:01 GMT
We had an officer who was trying to keep the protesting students safe get hit by a car
He has had multiple surgeries at this point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2014 4:15:54 GMT
We had an officer who was trying to keep the protesting students safe get hot by a car He has had multiple surgeries at this point.  That's terrible. Prayers going up for him! |
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 8, 2014 4:20:04 GMT
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likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by likescarrots on Dec 8, 2014 15:26:03 GMT
I do include all cops in that statement. All cops should attempt to defuse the situation without killing a person, particularly if they know that person is unarmed. I also believe there are plenty of cops who use tactics that don't involve their guns or other deadly force to successfully apprehend suspects, even suspects who resist arrest. Okay, I give up. You aren't talking about all cops. You are talking about all cops. Whatever works. I'm out. You are being purposefully obtuse. All cops should attempt to defuse situations without killing suspects. I never said all cops are not doing this. But there are cops who aren't doing this, and many people in this country believe that the two in question acted excessively. I'm sorry if you have inadequate reading comprehension skills. |
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Post by lucyg on Dec 8, 2014 15:33:11 GMT
Okay, I give up. You aren't talking about all cops. You are talking about all cops. Whatever works. I'm out. You are being purposefully obtuse. All cops should attempt to defuse situations without killing suspects. I never said all cops are not doing this. But there are cops who aren't doing this, and many people in this country believe that the two in question acted excessively. I said way back that you cannot expect every law enforcement situation to be resolved peacefully. It is unrealistic. You have argued every step of the way. I respond to your words and then you say oh no, that's not really what I said. You may not like it, but it IS what you said. Bite me. |
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Post by jonda1974 on Dec 8, 2014 16:19:56 GMT
NEW YORK -- Protesters staged a "die in" Friday night in an Apple store on Fifth Avenue and in Macy's at Herald Square. Hundreds of people angry over police treatment of African-American men crowded the street outside the Apple store, and some made their way through the store's large glass doors. Dozens staged a "die-in" in New York.(Photo: Yamiche Alcindor, USA TODAY) Once inside, the protesters stood in circles and chanted while store employees and customers silently snapped photos. Zandir Santos, 30, of Brooklyn, relished in the idea that protesters had disrupted life at an Apple store and a Macy's in New York. The filmmaker said this is a pivotal time in American history and that police must change how they treat people. "The CEO of Apple knows we shut his store down--that means capitalist America is going to take us seriously," he said. "We are going to shake up your business and we want to hit you where it hurts. " Chernell Brown lay down on the floor and encouraged other protesters to do the same in memory of Michael Brown, an unarmed 18-year-old black man who died after an altercation with a Ferguson, Mo., police officer in August. The move was symbolic of the four hours Brown lay on the ground after he died. "This is our house," shouted Brown, 25. "No more business as usual. Revolution is not comfortable." Please explain to me how this type of protest helps. Neither Apple or Macys had anything to do with the deaths of Michael Brown or Eric Garner. When you're shutting down businesses or highways that have nothing to do the reasons for your protest all you are doing is making people less sympathic to your cause.
It doesn't help in the least. In fact I was talking about this with a group of friends after it happened, and we all pretty much agreed, that we wouldn't have let their "die-in" stop us in the least from shopping. If it means stepping over them or whatever, all they are doing is pissing me off even more. The difference with MLK, is that he was promoting a great cause. These protesters have criminals as their martyrs. If they were protesting against police brutality in regards to the other death in NY where the man was shot in the stairwell, that I would fully support. But the cop in question there was Asian, and doesn't fit the political agenda, so we won't be hearing about that in the protests. Michael Brown was a thug criminal who resisted arrest and attacked a cop in his vehicle. He was hardly the poster example for a movement. Eric Garner was a serial repeat offender, who was affecting the business of the shop he was in front of. He argued with the cops, and refused to listen to their orders. He resisted arrest. He did not die on the scene. He died later at the hospital. With his extreme health conditions being factors. I agree with Broken Windows policing. I would protest with them if it they were sincere in their struggle about ending violence. But they are not. If they were they would be doing something to change their community. Black on Black violence would be a bigger issue. Thug life would be a bigger issue. Rap and hip hop music that promote the thug violence would be cause for protests and boycotts. White on black violence is minuscule in comparison to black on black crime. Focus on the root of the problem not the result. The root of the problem, is that these two men resisted arrest. They were breaking the law. I don't protest in support of criminals, or in making it easier for criminals to get away with it. Fight for rights absolutely, but MLK would be ashamed to see what he fought for. None of these poster guys can hold a candle to Dr. King, which shows how off track the civil rights movement is, when we are glorifying thugs. |
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Post by jonda1974 on Dec 8, 2014 16:27:23 GMT
I was born and raised in Bruxelles Belgium. I now live in the US; I have dual citizenship. My family, friends and I have been trying to follow this nonsense. Maybe it's a cultural thing but it seems to me the protesters are missing the point. The fact that Michael Brown and Eric Garner (Gardner?) lost their lives is sad. Maybe even tragic. BUT, but the only people to blame are Michael Brown and Eric Garner. These men were committing crimes and then attacking (Michael Brown) police or resisting (Eric Garner) arrest. Instead of disrupting the lives of innocent people THAT is what should be protested: committing crime and resisting arrest. Instead of looting and burning the bitch down these people should be protesting people in their community living the thug life. Raise their children better, teach them better. If you don't commit crimes and if you don't attack police officers and you don't resist arrest these things won't happen.
I'm sure that not being born and raised here that I'm probably missing something. But from what I can see where I live, the only thing these protests are doing are annoying innocent people. As someone else said; this isn't the 50s and these aren't people who were being harassed or barred from basic human "rights" because of the colour of their skin. These were criminals committing crimes and then compounding their actions by attacking and or fighting the police. I will just say that your sentence I bolded is complete and utter bullshit. Sorry. That's the POINT. Unfortunately the Michael Brown situation makes it difficult, but I don't in anyway believe for a second that a white guy selling illegal cigs would have been killed for it even had he resisted arrest. He may not have even been approached. I completely disagree with you. Put a white man, in the exact same physical condition in the exact same spot. Have him be someone who is known by cops as a repeat offender. Have the business owner call the cops asking them to have the man removed and you would get the same result. Why is the media failing to make it a major point that the Scene Supervisor was black? Because it doesn't fit their narrative. Eric Garner has nothing to do with race, and his death is on him. |
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Post by jonda1974 on Dec 8, 2014 16:28:16 GMT
I think and so do 1000's of protestors across the nation that it does make a difference. History shows that when you hit someone where it counts in their bottom line they take notice. 1000's of others are tired of it and silently protesting against the protestors by supporting the businesses online or in other ways. It goes both ways. This was a huge discussion at work last night, and the protestors are now losing a lot of the sympathy they once had. Yep. This is where I am. I'm at the point of frustration, that any place they protest, I'll support in the opposite. |
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Post by jonda1974 on Dec 8, 2014 16:31:19 GMT
I disagree. It was the store owners, who were SICK AND TIRED of Garner standing in front of their store selling cigarettes who called the police AGAIN on Garner. He'd been arrested countless times for the same offense. Now I agree that selling cigarettes doesn't warrant the death penalty, but I don't care what color the person was who did this. I'm sure the store owners didn't care whether Garner was black, green, purple or white. They called and had the expectation that the police handle it. For you to make the claim that had he been white, he may not have even been approached is inflammatory and irresponsible. The police didn't just happen to come across him nor were they stalking him. They responded to the complaint call from the store owner.
The police arrived, attempted to handle it, and Garner resisted. He still doesn't deserve to be executed for resisting arrest, but at what point is Garner himself held responsible for his own death?
Not only did his health choices contribute to his death, but his choice to ONCE AGAIN commit a crime contributed to his death, and his resisting arrest by law enforcement contributed to his death.
Stop committing crimes. Stop resisting arrest. Stop fighting the police. Someone else talked about it being "simple". Those three suggestions seem pretty simple to me as well.
Funny but you were the one race baiting in that horrible hammer death saying it was because he was white when the cops clearly state it was not race related. A bit hypocritical if you ask me. And it is not always that simple as you are claiming when you are targeted just because of your race. Which happens time and time again to minorities here. Fine. we can have a discussion on racial profiling. But Eric Garner and Michael Brown are not the ones to parade in front of everyone to gain public sympathy for the discussion. |
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Post by jonda1974 on Dec 8, 2014 16:34:01 GMT
I disagree. It was the store owners, who were SICK AND TIRED of Garner standing in front of their store selling cigarettes who called the police AGAIN on Garner. He'd been arrested countless times for the same offense. Now I agree that selling cigarettes doesn't warrant the death penalty, but I don't care what color the person was who did this. I'm sure the store owners didn't care whether Garner was black, green, purple or white. They called and had the expectation that the police handle it. For you to make the claim that had he been white, he may not have even been approached is inflammatory and irresponsible. The police didn't just happen to come across him nor were they stalking him. They responded to the complaint call from the store owner.
The police arrived, attempted to handle it, and Garner resisted. He still doesn't deserve to be executed for resisting arrest, but at what point is Garner himself held responsible for his own death?
Not only did his health choices contribute to his death, but his choice to ONCE AGAIN commit a crime contributed to his death, and his resisting arrest by law enforcement contributed to his death.
Stop committing crimes. Stop resisting arrest. Stop fighting the police. Someone else talked about it being "simple". Those three suggestions seem pretty simple to me as well.
And this right here is exactly why the protests are needed. People are not hearing/understanding the message. It's NOT JUST about those recent incidents. Then take their names out of the protests. it's not helping their cause, and honestly, deaths by cops is the least of their concern in these communities. Protest the violence by members of their own race, then I can be more sympathetic to believing they have a real desire for change. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2014 16:35:03 GMT
Funny but you were the one race baiting in that horrible hammer death saying it was because he was white when the cops clearly state it was not race related. A bit hypocritical if you ask me. And it is not always that simple as you are claiming when you are targeted just because of your race. Which happens time and time again to minorities here. Fine. we can have a discussion on racial profiling. But Eric Garner and Michael Brown are not the ones to parade in front of everyone to gain public sympathy for the discussion. I don't disagree. |
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I did wonder what it had to do with the photos of the neighbours....didn't even think of a light diffuser for a camera!!
That's terrible. Prayers going up for him!
