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Post by CarolinaGirl71 on Nov 8, 2022 1:56:15 GMT
As I've gotten older, I've realized that I would rather err on the side of kindness. Especially, when dealing with someone who did not have the opportunities I did. For a person who has had it rough, and I could afford it, I would make it a nice Christmas. Even if they disappeared out of my life tomorrow. Perhaps not *as* much as you would spend on your sons, if it really is a lot, but nice not token. Maybe don't think as it being about her, but the spirit of the season? I agree with this. Being kind is never wrong. I think you should include pjs for her if everyone wears the pjs at the same tie - otherwise it will be awkward.
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Post by epeanymous on Nov 8, 2022 2:03:29 GMT
As someone who is in that position of having been the despised girlfriend (now wife of 25 years), I never expected or was put off by getting smaller and fewer gifts at the holidays (although we're Jewish so there aren't really gift-giving holidays that have the emotional freight of Christmas). It was and is the unkindness that I resent, and that is how they have talked to me and what they say about me, not what they do and do not buy for me.
I think that a small gift/gift card is totally fine. I think I agree with the poster upthread who suggested coordinating but not matching pjs for the family so that you can get her pjs but maybe not have everyone literally in the same ones (although if the tradition is hard-core everyone-must-match, I'd just do it).
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quiltz
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Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on Nov 8, 2022 2:07:15 GMT
You could also consider couple gifts since they're living together. Stuff for the house, games, restaurant cards, etc. Be very careful about a couple gift for their home. You mentioned that she has kicked him out and that he does pay 1/2 of the rent. Make gift more "consumable" or "disposable" and not permanent to the point that when (if) they split up, your son will not have to fight for a gift that was given by you. Movie gift cards, restaurant gift cards, and stuff they can enjoy together but not such a permanent gift like a board game or small appliance that would either be (possibly) fought over and/or remembrance of their time together afterwards.
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Deleted
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Oct 5, 2024 22:48:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 2:11:30 GMT
Good for you for being willing to be civil for your DS's sake, that would be REALLY tough with what she pulled and how serious it was.
You've gotten good advice but I'd add that I wouldn't match for gf/bf what I spend on my own kids. For example, last year we spent about $500 on our kids and about $150 on adult bf's (HS gf/bf I'd maybe do $50-$75). Last year was the first year we did a joint gift for oldest DD and her bf who have lived together for 3 years, and spent about $600 total (which was one large joint item plus a few additional items for each) for them combined. There is no talk of getting married but we essentially treat them like they are, plus we wanted to start to decrease the amount we spend as she's approaching upper 20's and now that we felt we would spend an equal amount on her and her bf.
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Post by mom on Nov 8, 2022 2:11:45 GMT
Stocking- yes Pjs- hard for me to answer because we’ve never done that and I can’t imagine a group of adults sitting around in matching pj’s. Maybe ask DS what he thinks on that one? Gift - a few things to open would be generous of you but not to the same value as your son’s gifts, nope. Well, technically the PJs aren't all matching. LOL But everyone gets a new set of PJs on Christmas Eve. They tell me what style they want, and I then go pick them. I asked DS1 what he thought and he said include her and to pick some out for her. Id be willing to let this tradition go, but both of my kids want it to continue.
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Post by mom on Nov 8, 2022 2:14:20 GMT
Good for you for being willing to be civil for your DS's sake, that would be REALLY tough with what she pulled and how serious it was.
You've gotten good advice but I'd add that I wouldn't match for gf/bf what I spend on my own kids. For example, last year we spent about $500 on our kids and about $150 on adult bf's (HS gf/bf I'd maybe do $50-$75). Last year was the first year we did a joint gift for oldest DD and her bf who have lived together for 3 years, and spent about $600 total (which was one large joint item plus a few additional items for each) for them combined. There is no talk of getting married but we essentially treat them like they are, plus we wanted to start to decrease the amount we spend as she's approaching upper 20's and now that we felt we would spend an equal amount on her and her bf. I am really trying to do the right thing. But I admit -- it's hard and probably something I will need to work on with my therapist. LOL But I also know if we dont include her and do what's right, we could lose access to our son, so I prefer to try and make this work.
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Post by mom on Nov 8, 2022 2:16:56 GMT
As someone who is in that position of having been the despised girlfriend (now wife of 25 years), I never expected or was put off by getting smaller and fewer gifts at the holidays (although we're Jewish so there aren't really gift-giving holidays that have the emotional freight of Christmas). It was and is the unkindness that I resent, and that is how they have talked to me and what they say about me, not what they do and do not buy for me. I think that a small gift/gift card is totally fine. I think I agree with the poster upthread who suggested coordinating but not matching pjs for the family so that you can get her pjs but maybe not have everyone literally in the same ones (although if the tradition is hard-core everyone-must-match, I'd just do it). I am trying to do what's right, and DH and I have agreed that we will bend over backwards to make her feel welcome as long as DS1 has chose her. DS2 is really, really mad still, so I suspect he wont be around much when she is at the house. And no matching pjs....just new pjs.
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momto4kiddos
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Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
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Post by momto4kiddos on Nov 8, 2022 2:16:59 GMT
As I've gotten older, I've realized that I would rather err on the side of kindness. Especially, when dealing with someone who did not have the opportunities I did. For a person who has had it rough, and I could afford it, I would make it a nice Christmas. Even if they disappeared out of my life tomorrow. Perhaps not *as* much as you would spend on your sons, if it really is a lot, but nice not token. Maybe don't think as it being about her, but the spirit of the season? I agree with this, maybe not spending a much, but making them feel included yes. I realize there are very valid reasons you do not care for her, but i'd say do it for your ds. One of my ds had a girlfriend who he dated and she actually lived with us for a time. She had a rough upbringing and I was always kind to her and included her. It became evident she wasn't the one for him but I continued to be inclusive and kind. Never gave it much thought, but recently he made a comment to the girl he's been with for the last few years about how good we are to people. So while we were just being kind and didn't feel like we were doing anything special, apparently it didn't go unnoticed. So for this reason I say do it for your ds.
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Post by mom on Nov 8, 2022 2:21:34 GMT
I’ve been in this situation. I get it. I agree with you to err on the side of they may get married and have kids. Yes to the stocking, yes to the PJ’s, yes to the small gift, or even several small gifts so she’s not left watching everyone else unwrap a pile of gifts. You want to be sure he feels supported in the relationship. Even though you dislike her. Believe me, I get it. Your child needs to feel supported so he can make his own decision about her and not react to your dislike. He may just marry her and you’ll have to grit your teeth for years. Just think about how many members here talk about how their MIL never liked them, and treat them like crap. So many horrible stories here.Every time I read one of those stories, I wonder what the MIL sees that makes her dislike the pea involved. The stories also include the pea pulling the DH away from his “horrible family”. Now I’m not saying you’d be that horrible family, but think long term.
I’ve been there. Watched my DD struggle with two terrible relationships that have had serious effects on her mental health. As much as we despised each of these young men, she had to see it for herself and not feel she was fighting us too. We included them in every get together, as much as it killed us to do so. ETA: You are not encouraging the relationship if you kindly include her. You’re supporting your son. You seriously have no idea how any times I have thought about those posts. LOL DH & I have already decided we are going to smile and make her feel welcome. I know she can control how much we see our son, and how much a part of his life we are included in.
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Post by mom on Nov 8, 2022 2:27:15 GMT
here's my 2 cents (and sorry if it seems harsh): Do we spend the same amount on the GF? Heck No. she is not even the wife or fiancee. Do a nice gift card and call it a day? yes and "nice" would be generous considering what happened during the incident. Do more than just a gift card but less than what sons get? Nope. gift card is fine. remember how she was during the incident. she's lucky she's getting a gift card at all. oh, and the PJ thing--- like i said, she's not a wife or fiancee. no PJ's unless you are trying to put on a show for instagram or FB and then that's on you if she thinks she just got elevated to wife or fiancee status. Not harsh at all. And honestly, I feel the same way as you - which is why I was asking here. I *know* I am emotional about it and wasn't sure how to balance it all (including to be nice and including her with her thinking all was forgiven and forgotten).
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Ryann
Pearl Clutcher
Love is Inclusive
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May 31, 2021 3:14:17 GMT
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Post by Ryann on Nov 8, 2022 2:30:27 GMT
I would do whatever you would do for a DS girlfriend that you really like/love. Anything less than that may still look “less than” in the eyes of your DS. He’s the one you are supporting when including her, not necessarily them/her.
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Post by sabrinae on Nov 8, 2022 2:39:00 GMT
I’ll echo the yes on the stocking and pjs. Those are easy inexpensive ways to include her. Yes on the gift bit you don’t need to spend the same amount as in your sons. I’d go middle of the road — a nice gift or two and then some smaller less expensive things. If your son views your actions as not being inclusive you could easily end up cut out of much access. How many times here do we see responses saying to protect your immediate family and limit contact with in-laws/extended family if the perception is that part of the immediate family isn’t being g treated appropriately.
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Post by bc2ca on Nov 8, 2022 2:40:26 GMT
Stockings - yes Pj's - yes Gifts - no I wouldn't spend the same amount, but I might make an effort to have the same # of gifts. That's because we go around in a circle with each person opening a gift and it would be awkward if she had significantly fewer gifts. As a former girl friend and even now a DIL, I wouldn't expect my in-laws to spend the same amount on me that they do their son. I'm sorry your DS is still with this girl, but he has chosen her and wants her to be part of the Christmas he is used to having so I would do my best to give that to him. Hope that makes sense.
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Post by hjs on Nov 8, 2022 2:46:41 GMT
Pj’s absolutely yes.
Gift - treat her as one of the family. If cost is a n issue, you can spend somewhat less than for the sons, but I would try to have fairly equal numbers if gufts
I am saying this as the poor relative/ friend that sat and watched everyone else open multiple gifts as I had one token gift. I to this day hate Christmas in part due to this.
Also, if this girl (or any others to follow) become a DIl, you don’t want to start out as seeing her as less than. Welcome to the family is my MO. Whether I like them or not, it is not my decision who they attach to.
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Post by scrapmaven on Nov 8, 2022 3:08:18 GMT
I'm honestly getting emotional reading this thread. Buy her cheap thrift store pajamas and other crap that will make her happy enough not to take it out on your son. Make it a game. How much can you buy her for $50? You'd be surprised at the crap you can find at the dollar store. She's not a decent person, so don't break the bank. Do the minimum, so that your son sees you supporting his choice. Pour yourself an extra glass of wine and pretend to be welcoming. UGH. Save your money for a kind, wonderful woman who will focus on your son's happiness and well being. I am so sorry that she's still part of his life. It must be so very invalidating for you. ((((HUGS)))).
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Post by mom on Nov 8, 2022 3:55:28 GMT
I'm honestly getting emotional reading this thread. Buy her cheap thrift store pajamas and other crap that will make her happy enough not to take it out on your son. Make it a game. How much can you buy her for $50? You'd be surprised at the crap you can find at the dollar store. She's not a decent person, so don't break the bank. Do the minimum, so that your son sees you supporting his choice. Pour yourself an extra glass of wine and pretend to be welcoming. UGH. Save your money for a kind, wonderful woman who will focus on your son's happiness and well being. I am so sorry that she's still part of his life. It must be so very invalidating for you. ((((HUGS)))). It is soooo hard. Just in the last month has his medicine really started kicking in (we had to change some since he was hospitalized) and I am seeing some positive movement in his mood and energy level. I am hoping (and praying) he will see his value. For the last few months, you can really tell he is just putting up with her because she's there vs. actually in love with her and it absolutely breaks my heart - for her and him. They both deserve more but neither seem to want to change anything.
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Post by 950nancy on Nov 8, 2022 4:10:44 GMT
Stocking: yes PJ: no Gift: I don’t think you spend as much for gifts for girlfriend/boyfriend as you do for your children. I change it if kids get married. Gift card is fine, but perhaps a small gift to open. ETA: perhaps ask her if she wants the matching PJs. We did once we knew that the gf was a keeper and we wanted them to feel like part of the family. BUT, in this case, I would say that whatever you spend on the other gf is what you spend on this gf. I'd ask your son about the pjs. It isn't a lot to make it seem like you are trying to include her. ETA: Just saw you already did this. Not sure why he'd want to include her at Christmas ih he's getting kicked out. Sounds like a tough situation all around.
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Post by gar on Nov 8, 2022 9:36:39 GMT
How does she feel about you guys? Does she seem to like you, to enjoy spending time with you...will she want to wear the PJs?
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Post by bessieb on Nov 8, 2022 9:56:05 GMT
not read everyone else replies but my initial thoughts are
Stocking yes PJ yes present - something small to open but treat the same as the GF who isnt there (gift card?). This one has had the "extra' of the stocking and pjs becasue she is there but the main gift treat them the same?
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hannahruth
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,688
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Aug 29, 2014 18:57:20 GMT
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Post by hannahruth on Nov 8, 2022 10:06:21 GMT
More than a gift card, less than what DS gets This would be my choice. This ^^^ it includes her but not to the amount of your DS and you don’t want him to think any less of you if she feels left out.
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Post by cannmom on Nov 8, 2022 10:53:52 GMT
If you want to do something different than pjs; but still similar, you could get a T-shirt to wear with pajama pants. I have been doing funny Life is Good shirts, but you could do Christmas themed ones also. If you do go with the pajamas I would buy for her also. I wouldn’t spend the same amount on her, but would make sure she had things to open. A gift card to somewhere she like to shop and some less expensive things and call it good.
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Post by gillyp on Nov 8, 2022 12:05:55 GMT
It's easy sitting here on the outside making suggestions. I agree with mostly everyone, pjs yes, stocking yes, gifts of a value you find acceptable yes. You say she's never had a Christmas like you have. Maybe you will show her a family life that she secretly aspires to and maybe things will improve a little with her and DS for her being included? I admit my teeth would be very firmly gritted after all that has gone on but kindness costs nothing and I applaud you for being so considerate.
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peabay
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Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Nov 8, 2022 12:26:58 GMT
Stocking- yes Pjs- hard for me to answer because we’ve never done that and I can’t imagine a group of adults sitting around in matching pj’s. Maybe ask DS what he thinks on that one? Gift - a few things to open would be generous of you but not to the same value as your son’s gifts, nope. Well, technically the PJs aren't all matching. LOL But everyone gets a new set of PJs on Christmas Eve. They tell me what style they want, and I then go pick them. I asked DS1 what he thought and he said include her and to pick some out for her. Id be willing to let this tradition go, but both of my kids want it to continue. The one year I thought my kids were over it (and they run 30 y/o down to 20) they were so upset that I didn't get everyone pjs. So, everyone still gets them - even the boyfriends. They don't match any more - it's usually just pj bottoms with cute t shirts but they want them! Traditions run deep.
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Post by guzismom on Nov 8, 2022 12:39:23 GMT
My daughter is bringing her boyfriend, whom we like, to our house for a week around Xmas. He will have gifts under the tree; but we will not spend no where NEAR what we will spend on the DD on him. Simple as that...
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Post by silverlining on Nov 8, 2022 16:36:42 GMT
I agree with yes on pjs, stockings, and a few gifts to open but not of the same value as the gifts you give your sons. I'm glad the pjs aren't matching, so you can buy something you think she would like, but it wouldn't be matching with your son.
I hope your son feels better and better and realizes he deserves so much more in a partner. I don't know how to say this without being cheesy...I hope he will see how loving and kind and generous you are, even with someone you don't like, and realize he could have a partner who treats people like you do.
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milocat
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Location: 55 degrees north in Alberta, Canada
Mar 18, 2015 4:10:31 GMT
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Post by milocat on Nov 8, 2022 16:57:04 GMT
I agree with most, stocking and pjs yet. No not a gift of the same value as your son, not just because of the history. As the years go on I would increase the value of the gift, for any girl/boyfriend.
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Post by scrapmaven on Nov 8, 2022 17:19:10 GMT
mom it has to be your ds's choice. Maybe w/his meds and therapy he'll see her for what she is. Meanwhile, the more you support him the more he'll include you in his life. At this point, it's all about keeping him close, so that you can keep an eye on him. She's not a keeper, by any means. This is temporary.
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Post by auntkelly on Nov 8, 2022 17:53:54 GMT
I hope it all goes well. You are very kind.
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Post by airforcemomof1 on Nov 8, 2022 19:09:42 GMT
Yes to pajamas and stockings and gifts to open. I would keep the number of gifts equal and I would rather spend too much than too little. You don’t want to regret spending too little after the fact. It is Christmas after all. How would you want your son to be treated if it were reversed?
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Anita
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Jun 27, 2014 2:38:58 GMT
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Post by Anita on Nov 8, 2022 19:47:35 GMT
I'd do the stocking and pjs for inclusion's sake and get several smaller gifts. Then keep smiling and gritting your teeth, hoping he eventually comes around. Good luck. I've been there and know how much it sucks.
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