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Post by aj2hall on Dec 6, 2022 2:17:10 GMT
This is alarming, too www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/12/04/trump-constitution-republicans/“It’s a distinctive statement. It sort of says the quiet part out loud — that he has no reverence for the country, for anything other than himself,” Tribe said. “This is like saying, ‘You want to see an insurrection? I’ll show you an insurrection. I’ll just tear the whole thing up.’ ”And this opinion asks the question - why now? Why is Trump suggesting to terminate the constitution now? www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/12/05/trump-constitution-2020-election-hunter-biden/So why is Trump making this extraordinary and extraordinarily antidemocratic claim now? Three reasons. First, his supporters have rallied around new details involving the limits on an anti-Biden story in 2020. Second, the midterm elections reinvigorated his claims about election fraud. And, third, his path back to the Republican nomination — much less the White House — is less certain now than at any point since he left office. In other words, the 2024 nomination is not the gimme that Trump had hoped it would be. His path back to the presidency is less direct than it was even six months ago, with Republicans beginning to (however gently) suggest that a page should be turned.
Hence Trump’s new — obviously futile — call to simply be reinstated. It’s a moment in which there’s a lot of right-wing fury at perceived leftist elites, energy that could be perhaps redirected to his own benefit. And it’s a moment in which Trump might reasonably think that relying on the will of voters is not his surest path back to power.
So why not simply throw out the voice of voters entirely? How could the Founding Fathers object to that?
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 6, 2022 3:53:54 GMT
Somehow, I think Trump's statement overshadowed the news that he failed to disclose a $19 million loan from a company connected to North Korea. Or maybe, people are just tired of him and his unethical, unscrupulous business practices. www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2022/12/04/trump-owed-hidden-debt-while-in-office/?sh=9fa7de7b30eaThe documents, compiled by the Trump Organization and obtained by the New York attorney general, show a previously unreported liability of $19.8 million listed as “L/P Daewoo.” The debt stems from an agreement Trump struck to share some of his licensing fees with Daewoo, a South Korean conglomerate that partnered with Trump on a project near the United Nations headquarters in New York City.
There’s little doubt that if the world had known about the debt while Trump was president, it would have sparked conflict-of-interest concerns, perhaps heightened by Daewoo’s historical ties to North Korea. (In the mid-1990s, the firm was the only South Korean company permitted to operate a business inside the country.) Most people as rich as Trump would not be heavily influenced by a $20 million loan. Regardless, the fact that the former president managed to keep the debt secret for so long underscores how weak the government’s ethics safeguards are, how difficult they are to strengthen—and how easily Trump could barrel right through them as he runs for president again in 2024.
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Post by Merge on Dec 6, 2022 13:36:56 GMT
More re: runoffs, special elections, etc. as an attempt to disenfranchise certain voters. The runoff system in GA was specifically designed to dilute the power of black voters. wapo.st/3BcWKdg (gift article) But I’m sure voting harder will help. Nothing else can be done, right? How does all this fit into Trump’s ongoing efforts to discredit the 2020 and other elections? GOP office holders use their lies about corruption and malfeasance to justify even stricter laws that effectively disenfranchise more people. And we can see here that these attempts to disenfranchise poor and working people - many of whom are people of color - go right back to the Jim Crow south.
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peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
Posts: 3,835
Jun 26, 2014 17:47:08 GMT
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Post by peppermintpatty on Dec 6, 2022 17:09:06 GMT
FOX news won't even talk to him on the air. They are relegating him to Fox.com.
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Post by Merge on Dec 6, 2022 21:30:36 GMT
FOX news won't even talk to him on the air. They are relegating him to Fox.com. Wait, so Fox is effectively deplatforming him? Where is the hue and cry about freedom of speech?
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Post by onelasttime on Dec 7, 2022 1:31:37 GMT
I just read on this thread that gerrymandering matters in every election, at every level. I’m wondering just exactly how
Just so happens I still have the sample ballot for the last election. It’s helpful in showing what district I’m in for various candidates.
For governor, Lt. Governor, Secretary of State, Controller, Treasurer, AG, Insurance Commissioner, US Senator, & Superintendent of Public Instruction. There are no districts listed which means my vote will be counted with the rest of the voters for the entire state to determine the winner of these races.
I’m in district 2 for the State Board of Equalization.
I’m in district 4 for my representative in the House.
I’m in district 12 for my representative in the State Assembly.
I’m in district 1 for my representative for the City Council for the city I live in.
A lot of districts.
Anyway, that means that my vote for each district is added with the rest of the votes for that particular district to determine a winner.
Just say for giggles sake let’s say each of the 4 districts I’m in is gerrymandered toward Republicans and I’m a Democrat.
Just exactly how does voting in 4 gerrymandered districts going to affect my vote for the candidates that are not in a district? My vote for the Democrats will be added to all the other voters who voted for Democrats in the entire state to determine a total/winner. So it really doesn’t matter how the district is gerrymandered when it comes to non district candidates. It only affects those candidates that are in a specific district. Right?
As far as voter suppression goes, yes it does affect elections. But does anybody know by how much. In this country between 30-40% of eligible voters do not vote. And that % estimate may be low.
The question is how much is due to voter suppression and how much is that due to “I can’t be bothered”? Does anyone know?
So what has a greater impact on the elections, voters who have too many obstacles thrown in their way so they say the hell with it. Or those who have no obstacles making it harder for them to vote but can’t be bothered to vote?
I shouldn’t have to say it, but I do not support any type of gerrymandering or any unnecessary voting laws that make it harder for people to vote. It’s just plain wrong. And it should be seen as un-American by all Americans.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Dec 7, 2022 3:06:43 GMT
FOX business is bailing on him.. Fox Business host Stuart Varney used his monologue on Tuesday to lash out at former President Donald Trump's desire to terminate parts of the U.S. Constitution over his 2020 presidential election loss. In a subsequent post, Trump tried to walk back his remarks, but Varney said that it was too late. "He was talking about terminating parts of the Constitution," the host noted. "That plays right into the Democrats' hands. He's trying to walk it back today. But the damage has been done." www.rawstory.com/stuart-varney-trump-constitution/
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Post by Merge on Dec 7, 2022 3:39:39 GMT
I just read on this thread that gerrymandering matters in every election, at every level. I’m wondering just exactly how Just so happens I still have the sample ballot for the last election. It’s helpful in showing what district I’m in for various candidates. For governor, Lt. Governor, Secretary of State, Controller, Treasurer, AG, Insurance Commissioner, US Senator, & Superintendent of Public Instruction. There are no districts listed which means my vote will be counted with the rest of the voters for the entire state to determine the winner of these races. I’m in district 2 for the State Board of Equalization. I’m in district 4 for my representative in the House. I’m in district 12 for my representative in the State Assembly. I’m in district 1 for my representative for the City Council for the city I live in. A lot of districts. Anyway, that means that my vote for each district is added with the rest of the votes for that particular district to determine a winner. Just say for giggles sake let’s say each of the 4 districts I’m in is gerrymandered toward Republicans and I’m a Democrat. Just exactly how does voting in 4 gerrymandered districts going to affect my vote for the candidates that are not in a district? My vote for the Democrats will be added to all the other voters who voted for Democrats in the entire state to determine a total/winner. So it really doesn’t matter how the district is gerrymandered when it comes to non district candidates. It only affects those candidates that are in a specific district. Right? As far as voter suppression goes, yes it does affect elections. But does anybody know by how much. In this country between 30-40% of eligible voters do not vote. And that % estimate may be low. The question is how much is due to voter suppression and how much is that due to “I can’t be bothered”? Does anyone know? So what has a greater impact on the elections, voters who have too many obstacles thrown in their way so they say the hell with it. Or those who have no obstacles making it harder for them to vote but can’t be bothered to vote? I shouldn’t have to say it, but I do not support any type of gerrymandering or any unnecessary voting laws that make it harder for people to vote. It’s just plain wrong. And it should be seen as un-American by all Americans. 1. Gerrymandering matters for statewide elections because it affects who has the majority in the state lege and how much, who has the majority on the state board of education and thus the power, etc. In Texas, for example, about 45-47% of people vote for Democrats in statewide elections, but our share of the state lege is held to about 30% due to gerrymandering. This often means that Republicans in our state have not just a majority, but a supermajority, which means there is no standing in the way of whatever agenda they want to pass. In a state where there are no citizen ballot initiatives and new legislation can only be suggested and passed by the elected legislators, this matters a lot. 2. Gerrymandering matters nationwide because based on statewide voting numbers for Democrats are not reflected in our congressional delegation. We should be sending more Democrats to congress than we are able to do because of the way our congressional districts are set. 3. Gerrymandering matters because after decades of realizing that the state will make sure they always have long lines and multiple hoops to jump through, that auntie got removed from the voter rolls for no reason, that grandma is disabled and requires assistance but her application for a mail-in ballot was mysteriously lost or rejected because she can't remember which form of ID she used to register to vote in 1972, and that the state is going to make sure that your preferred party is never going to have real power in the state, people just give up. Even if we had elected Beto, the Texas state government is set up so that the lege wields most oof the power, and the heavily gerrymandered legislature was never going to allow Beto to pass the bills he wanted to pass. People understandably feel hopeless. We can't quantify for certain how much suppression works, but clearly it does or the GOP wouldn't be so committed to doing it. We can quantify pretty easily the effect that extreme gerrymandering has when we compare statewide vote totals with the percentage of representation in the state house and senate and our US congressional delegations. This has to stop, and it's going to take federal legislation supported by national Dems to do it. Whether or not anyone cares about Texas' 40 electoral votes or its seats in the house and senate, real people in Texas are suffering under the laws the GOP can pass here because they've made it nearly impossible for Dems to stop them. We are American citizens, and we deserve the protection of our federal government. Y'all also shouldn't discount the fact that lots of Texas liberal voters are fed up and frustrated at being ignored by the national party. That has a suppressive effect. Younger voters especially feel that the national Democrats aren't helping them, so why vote for them? Codify Roe. Make tertiary education affordable instead of telling them they're entitled whiners for wanting to participate in the middle-class economy. Enact strong voting rights legislation so they have a chance at helping themselves. Then you might see better turnout from GenZ. (You know what doesn't help? Smug little lectures. If you're not interested in helping them, they'll find someone who is.)
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 7, 2022 3:47:20 GMT
Gerrymandering matters at every level. It disenfranchises voters. At the state level, it keeps Republicans in power in state legislatures, allowing them to pass voter suppression bills, more than 500 in the last 2 years. Republicans most likely have a net gain of 16-17 seats in the US House because of gerrymandering. Florida alone probably gained 4 Republican seats because DeSantis gerrymandered the districts. Enough seats that Democrats might have the majority in the House, if districts were more fairly drawn. The balance of power in the House will affect how much the Democrats can accomplish in the next 2 years. The Republicans will be able to endlessly investigate the administration. The endless Benghazi investigations negatively impacted Clinton's campaign. The Republican investigations will probably have a negative impact on Biden or another Democratic nominee in the 2024 election. In the south, especially, racial gerrymandering is a big problem. It suppresses and disenfranchises minority voters and leads to underrepresentation. The votes of minorities are diluted. Gerrymandering also leads to more partisan politics, more solidly red or blue districts and fewer competitive ones. We end up with politicians like MTG or Lauren Boebert because they're in safe Republican districts. It's one of the reasons politicians are no longer accountable. We all lose. www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/gerrymandering-explainedwww.rockthevote.org/explainers/gerrymandering/www.npr.org/2022/11/11/1136166820/the-impact-of-redistricting-and-new-congressional-maps-on-the-midtermseta - I didn't see Merge's post before I posted. She explained it really well. Gerrymandering effects every election, not just US House races.
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 7, 2022 4:55:14 GMT
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Dec 7, 2022 5:02:10 GMT
Yes, there needs to be continued work to get voter rights and election reform passed nationally ASAP. It would be great if it could be done now, before the Congressional session ends. I know, wishful thinking!!
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 7, 2022 11:03:42 GMT
Also wanted to point out that living in a blue district in a blue state drawn by an independent committee of citizens is not the same thing as gerrymandered districts in red states. Living in area that leans heavily blue is not the same as living in a red state where your vote is discounted or diluted.
Maybe you could make the argument that a Republican voter in a deeply blue district is similar to living in a gerrymandered red state. However, there’s an important difference. Politicians in California are not trying to dilute or discount the vote of some citizens.
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Post by hop2 on Dec 7, 2022 11:52:34 GMT
This is alarming, too www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/12/04/trump-constitution-republicans/“It’s a distinctive statement. It sort of says the quiet part out loud — that he has no reverence for the country, for anything other than himself,” Tribe said. “This is like saying, ‘You want to see an insurrection? I’ll show you an insurrection. I’ll just tear the whole thing up.’ ”And this opinion asks the question - why now? Why is Trump suggesting to terminate the constitution now? www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/12/05/trump-constitution-2020-election-hunter-biden/So why is Trump making this extraordinary and extraordinarily antidemocratic claim now? Three reasons. First, his supporters have rallied around new details involving the limits on an anti-Biden story in 2020. Second, the midterm elections reinvigorated his claims about election fraud. And, third, his path back to the Republican nomination — much less the White House — is less certain now than at any point since he left office. In other words, the 2024 nomination is not the gimme that Trump had hoped it would be. His path back to the presidency is less direct than it was even six months ago, with Republicans beginning to (however gently) suggest that a page should be turned.
Hence Trump’s new — obviously futile — call to simply be reinstated. It’s a moment in which there’s a lot of right-wing fury at perceived leftist elites, energy that could be perhaps redirected to his own benefit. And it’s a moment in which Trump might reasonably think that relying on the will of voters is not his surest path back to power.
So why not simply throw out the voice of voters entirely? How could the Founding Fathers object to that?They objected to being ruled without representation most especially by a monarchy over 230 times between 1775-1783
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 7, 2022 14:42:22 GMT
Another reason why it's never as simple as vote harder. Stacy Abrams in Georgia was a rock star at registering voters in both run off elections. The electoral map is changing. Georgia and Ohio have become more solidly red. Georgia, Arizona and New Mexico are more purple. Democrats need to shift with shifting demographics. And voter registration drives are critical. www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/12/07/raphael-warnock-georgia-democratic-senate-map/And Beto may have lost again, but Democrats and Texas need more politicians like him, Stacy Abrams and Fetterman. Younger, a little unconventional and able to reach out to independents and moderates. In Texas, Democrats can't win with just Democratic voters. Democrats need to invest in Texas and hopefully, long term, they can shift the state. But Texas Democrats need help. And they need federal voting rights and a federal bill to end gerrymandering. If the Democratic state legislatures had the courage to flee the state, the US Senate should be able to find the will and courage to pass federal voting rights. Although campaign finance reform and term limits are unlikely to happen, it would help Democrats in states like Texas. www.nytimes.com/2022/08/19/us/beto-orourke-texas-governor.html
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Post by Merge on Dec 7, 2022 14:58:22 GMT
Also wanted to point out that living in a blue district in a blue state drawn by an independent committee of citizens is not the same thing as gerrymandered districts in red states. Living in area that leans heavily blue is not the same as living in a red state where your vote is discounted or diluted. Maybe you could make the argument that a Republican voter in a deeply blue district is similar to living in a gerrymandered red state. However, there’s an important difference. Politicians in California are not trying to dilute or discount the vote of some citizens. Yes, I frequently hear the argument that Texas is balanced out by blue states that are gerrymandered. That's absolute crap to me. First of all, Democrats having an outsized majority in New York does nothing to alleviate the suppressive effect of gerrymandering in Texas or the imbalance in our state houses. Secondly, I don't want New York's Democrats to pick US representatives purportedly on behalf of disenfranchised Democrats elsewhere. We deserve to elect our own representation. Texas' Democrats have a more urgent understanding of the issues we face here - many of which have become the subject of national controversy - and can better represent us in DC than Democrats from elsewhere can. I would imagine that Republicans in blue states would feel much the same way. We need to end extreme partisan gerrymandering everywhere.
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 7, 2022 16:10:35 GMT
McConnell finally spoke about Trump's statement, but it fell short of condemnation and he didn't say if he would support him in 2024. www.npr.org/2022/12/06/1141096473/mcconnell-trump-terminate-constitution"Anyone seeking the presidency who thinks that the Constitution could somehow be suspended or not followed, it seems to me would have a very hard time being sworn in as president of the United States," McConnell said at the top of his remarks to reporters on Capitol Hill.
McConnell did not answer if he would ultimately support Trump if he were the 2024 GOP nominee, and instead reiterated his same remarks.
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 7, 2022 16:31:02 GMT
If the Supreme Court allows state legislature to control federal elections, we are all doomed. A Democrat might not ever win a presidential election again. www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/12/06/north-carolina-scotus-elections-state-legislatures/Advanced by North Carolina’s Republican legislative leaders, the “independent state legislature theory” could negate a governor’s veto, end the oversight of courts enforcing the state constitution and cast doubt on citizen-implemented initiatives aimed at taking partisan politics out of map-drawing and election rules.A study by the liberal Brennan Center for Justice said that accepting North Carolina’s argument, which is supported by other Republican-led states, would endanger hundreds of state constitutional provisions and state court decisions and more than a thousand delegations of authority to officials, commissions and others.“This case is nothing less than a direct challenge to our system of checks and balances. It’s truly a fringe, fringe theory,” said Eric H. Holder Jr., who served as attorney general under President Barack Obama.www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/moore-v-harper-heads-high-courtwww.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/there-no-lite-version-independent-state-legislature-theorywww.brennancenter.org/issues/defend-our-elections/independent-state-legislature-theoryThe “independent state legislature theory” is a misreading of the Constitution, advanced in recent years by a small group of right-wing advocates, that would give state legislatures wide authority to gerrymander electoral maps and pass voter suppression laws. It has even been used as political cover to try to overturn elections. At its core, the theory challenges longstanding checks and balances on state legislatures when they make laws for federal elections. The danger that this unorthodox theory poses has risen in recent years as several sitting justices of the Supreme Court have voiced their interest in making it the new law of the land.
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 8, 2022 2:22:56 GMT
So happy he was re-elected. He's passionate about voting rights and a great speaker. And he made a great point, a counter to the Republican falsehood that voter turnout nullifies voter suppression bills. First, the Republicans pass significant and numerous voter suppression bills. Stacey Abrams and other Democrats work really hard at get out the vote drives and voter registration drives and there's a record turnout. Then Republicans say , "See, the voter suppression bills were not so bad after all." No, it just means that people were able and willing to overcome the obstacles to voting, it doesn't't mean that the obstacles are not there. www.nytimes.com/2022/12/07/us/politics/warnock-victory-speech-georgia.htmlHe addressed those who point to the results of the race as proof that there was no voter suppression in Georgia. He said that just because people stood in blocks-long lines in the cold to cast their ballots did not mean voter suppression did not exist.
“It simply means that you, the people, have decided that your voices will not be silenced,” he said.
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 8, 2022 18:40:45 GMT
This reminds me of DeSantis' effort in FL to intimidate minority voters with his arrests and his election crimes unit. Republicans should not be able to intimidate voters who they're afraid will vote against them. There have been problems with voting but not the ones for which they're accusing them. And with nearly 5 million voters, there are bound to be some problems. www.npr.org/2022/12/08/1141075863/texas-harris-county-election-criminal-investigationlocal officials in Houston say this probe is part of a multi-year Republican effort to intimidate the state's most racially diverse and populous county.
Ultimately what is happening in Texas, Griffith said, is part of a larger trend in Republican-led states. He said there has been an increase in criminalizing elections.
"These issues I think are being used to a certain extent to justify this additional involvement of law enforcement," Griffith said.
He pointed to Florida state leaders recently creating an elections crimes unit and Georgia lawmakers expanding law enforcement investigatory power in elections, which he says could intimidate voters and election workers.
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 13, 2022 4:34:38 GMT
Great summary on the fight for democracy in Ukraine & here at home heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/december-12-2022And the texts from 34 Republican members of Congress to overturn the results of the election are unbelievable. Everything from invoke Marshall law to battle cries. Most, if not all of them, are still serving in Congress. And these are only the messages Meadows turned over before he stopped cooperating. talkingpointsmemo.com/feature/mark-meadows-exchanged-texts-with-34-members-of-congress-about-plans-to-overturn-the-2020-electionMeadows’ exchanges shed new light on the extent of congressional involvement in Trump’s efforts to spread baseless conspiracy theories about his defeat and his attempts to reverse it. The messages document the role members played in the campaign to subvert the election as it was conceived, built, and reached its violent climax on Jan. 6, 2021. The texts are rife with links to far-right websites, questionable legal theories, violent rhetoric, and advocacy for authoritarian power grabs.
Mark, in seeing what’s happening so quickly, and reading about the Dominion law suits attempting to stop any meaningful investigation we are at a point of � no return � in saving our Republic !! Our LAST HOPE is invoking Marshall Law!! PLEASE URGE TO PRESIDENT TO DO SO!!
The text, which has not previously been reported, is a particularly vivid example of how congressional opposition to Biden’s election was underpinned by paranoid and debunked conspiracy theories like those about Dominion voting machines. Norman’s text also showed the potentially violent lengths to which some congressional Republicans were willing to go in order to keep Trump in power. The log Meadows provided to the select committee does not include a response to Norman’s message.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Dec 13, 2022 5:21:06 GMT
aj2hall some of the Florida cases are being dismissed. The ones who were told they could vote... Notice that DeSantis ignores the fraudulent voters from the villages. Most pled guilty. I don't think any did jail... They were GOP!
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