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Post by pjaye on Dec 18, 2022 22:43:31 GMT
is a teeth-baring misogyny toward Meghan Of course you're going to white knight for her - while at the same time ignoring the real deal directed at Camilla.
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Post by pjaye on Dec 18, 2022 23:13:09 GMT
I'm pretty sure someone said they'd wished he married a quiet, motherly type instead of a beautiful, accomplished woman. Ah no. talk about revisionist history and projecting things that aren't there. In case you think this is some sort of "gotcha' moment, here's my exact quote from their engagement thread: Let's recap that - it will be hard for an American to fit into the VERY TRADITIONAL ENGLISH society - yep, I was right about that This marriage will be MORE STRESSFUL and harder work than her last one - I was right again, and because of these two things I felt he would be better off with someone who was already brought up understanding British society and traditions. And Meghan says "as an American" many times in the Netflix show, and she mocks having to curtsy, so clearly she found the cultural differences significant. And Harry still has not stopped talking about his mother and how Meghan is like his mother and how he's like his mother and his kids are like his mother...and he wasn't doing that at the time as much, but it was clear to me back then and still is now that he's looking for a mother replacement in his life...so yes, I felt he needed to marry someone motherly and nurturing to help him deal with his issues around that. He thinks it's Meghan but it's not, she gaslights him...and you see her doing it in that reality show. I never said "instead of" because it's entirely possible to have these qualities and be an accomplished woman those things are not mutually exclusive. Lots of British women are accomplished in their careers and are also mothery/nuturing. That's your problem if you think women can only be one or the other. Also a big problem that you don't think nurturing motherly women are beautiful...perhaps go look up the current Princess of Wales. I thought at the time that as a result of the stress of the role and her not fitting that they would divorce...because back then I couldn't foresee a scenario where Harry would leave his family. So currently I'm wrong about that - I predicted one would leave, but instead they both did.
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Post by mom on Dec 19, 2022 2:56:15 GMT
Can you give a specific example of misogyn toward Meghan thats been posted here? Most everyone liked her at some point in the past and wanted her to do well. I can't be bothered to look at what has been posted in this specific thread, but plenty have expressed their belief that Meghan should be blamed for Harry leaving, as if it wasn't what he wants, which is pretty classic misogyny. Calling it Megxit and making her the bad one rather than listening to what Harry is saying and accepting they are equal partners in their relationship and decisions. I'm pretty sure someone said they'd wished he married a quiet, motherly type instead of a beautiful, accomplished woman. I think many people (not just Peas) saw that Harry was happy before Meghan because he was always smiling in photos, etc and there was never a word about not wanting to be there. Then Meghan came along and all of that changed. Is it all her fault? I doubt it. But the public can only go on with what Harry was putting out in the public at the time. He seemed happy and enjoying his life in public. If thats not what Harry was actually feeling, then well, thats on him for putting on a happy face when he wasnt happy. And I am just gonna say this -- Harry isn't the brightest bulb in the box. There is no way Harry would have moved to the US without Meghan. Harry reminds me of the type of man who does need a 'motherly wife'. I doubt he could figure his own way out of a paper bag. I think both are responsible for where they are in now, as well as how the public view them. At the end of the day, if they were to just go live their life and be quiet for a bit, the general public would be more likely to be sympathetic and want to listen. But as it is, every time they talk their story changes, and people are tired of them playing the victim. And RE: marrying someone who is quiet and motherly --- that is not exactly what was said. And when you read the original post, it wasn't said in a hate filled way. The reality is there were going to be many, many challenges for the two of them no matter what. From different religions, to different cultures, different social classes, different realities of what 'life' is like.
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Post by smasonnc on Dec 19, 2022 3:37:36 GMT
That still does not mean people who disagree with actions do so because she is female. People don’t dislike her because she’s a woman. They dislike her because she is a fame-craving, self-serving, narcissist who is not always truthful. I wouldn’t call it “classic misogyny “ at all. I’ve experienced misogyny and this isn’t it.
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Post by amp on Dec 19, 2022 4:27:49 GMT
I can't be bothered to look at what has been posted in this specific thread, but plenty have expressed their belief that Meghan should be blamed for Harry leaving, as if it wasn't what he wants, which is pretty classic misogyny. Calling it Megxit and making her the bad one rather than listening to what Harry is saying and accepting they are equal partners in their relationship and decisions. I'm pretty sure someone said they'd wished he married a quiet, motherly type instead of a beautiful, accomplished woman. I think many people (not just Peas) saw that Harry was happy before Meghan because he was always smiling in photos, etc and there was never a word about not wanting to be there. Then Meghan came along and all of that changed. Is it all her fault? I doubt it. But the public can only go on with what Harry was putting out in the public at the time. He seemed happy and enjoying his life in public. If thats not what Harry was actually feeling, then well, thats on him for putting on a happy face when he wasnt happy. And I am just gonna say this -- Harry isn't the brightest bulb in the box. There is no way Harry would have moved to the US without Meghan. Harry reminds me of the type of man who does need a 'motherly wife'. I doubt he could figure his own way out of a paper bag. I think both are responsible for where they are in now, as well as how the public view them. At the end of the day, if they were to just go live their life and be quiet for a bit, the general public would be more likely to be sympathetic and want to listen. But as it is, every time they talk their story changes, and people are tired of them playing the victim. And RE: marrying someone who is quiet and motherly --- that is not exactly what was said. And when you read the original post, it wasn't said in a hate filled way. The reality is there were going to be many, many challenges for the two of them no matter what. From different religions, to different cultures, different social classes, different realities of what 'life' is like. Exactly.
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Post by pjaye on Dec 19, 2022 5:02:49 GMT
They dislike her because she is a fame-craving, self-serving, narcissist who is not always truthful The lying that's my sticking point. They tell outright lies. And then a whole bunch of people come forward to counter their lies and they in turn get attacked. It defies belief. The privacy issue... In this Vogue article: www.vogue.com/article/why-prince-harry-and-meghan-markle-chose-to-live-in-montecito-californiaSo in their own words they said they wanted to "remove the public interest/media intrusion into their lives" I think a very logical and justified interpretation of that, is they wanted to keep their lives private. We'd already seen several instances of that - Archies birth and Christening, where they said these things were "private" Now they are saying "we never asked for privacy"...maybe not in those exact words, but what else does "removing public interest and media intrusion" mean then? You don't think people should be interest in your life and you don't want it reported in the media that's what privacy is! I have been quite clear all along and said I never thought they wanted privacy - they just wanted to control the narrative and be paid for the public interest in them. I actually don't have an issue with that, plenty of famous people do it, but don't do it and pretend it's something else. And where I think Harry is hypocritical is about selling your private photo & stories etc for money...he criticizes others for doing it WHILE he's doing. They criticize her father for doing it...and it's no different to what they are doing right now "we'll give you money in exchange for your story and some photos" Thomas did it to cash in on being Meghan's father, and now Harry's doing to it cash in on being the King's son. Same same.
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Post by bc2ca on Dec 19, 2022 21:31:38 GMT
I think many people (not just Peas) saw that Harry was happy before Meghan because he was always smiling in photos, etc and there was never a word about not wanting to be there. Then Meghan came along and all of that changed. Is it all her fault? I doubt it. But the public can only go on with what Harry was putting out in the public at the time. He seemed happy and enjoying his life in public. If thats not what Harry was actually feeling, then well, thats on him for putting on a happy face when he wasnt happy. Wow, most people I know put on a happy face. How often do we hear after some dies by suicide "they seemed so happy"? Both DH and I were happy before we met but we both knew something was missing IYKWIM. Finding each other did change everything. And more than a few of his family blamed me for us moving away. The reason we live 1000+ miles away from family is he needs the physical space and boundaries from his family and I support him. I think he needs a nice motherly English girl. I guess "nice motherly English girl" and "sophisticated, accomplished woman" do bring up different images for me. Meghan has clearly proved both to be warm, caring, sophisticated and accomplished. I'm willing to take Harry's word on that over your opinion. YMMV And, FWIW, I don't think a nice motherly English girl would touch the RF with a ten foot pole. Anyone raised in England has seen first hand the vicious way someone coming into the RF is treated and would give Harry a hard pass.
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Post by Laurie on Dec 19, 2022 21:39:12 GMT
I used to like her and was team Meghan. I used to like Harry more than William. Now I don't care for her and I don't care for him either. Has nothing to do with anything other than the image they are putting out there. FWIW, I hold him more responsible for this than her. I feel he wanted out and she was the means of getting there. If anything I feel some sympathy towards her as I feel he is letting her be his scape goat. Maybe trying to keep his hands clean to not burn any bridges.
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Post by pjaye on Dec 19, 2022 22:04:22 GMT
And, FWIW, I don't think a nice motherly English girl would touch the RF with a ten foot pole. Catherine Middleton did.
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Post by bc2ca on Dec 19, 2022 22:35:22 GMT
And, FWIW, I don't think a nice motherly English girl would touch the RF with a ten foot pole. Catherine Middleton did. FWIW, I never would describe Catherine as a nice, motherly English girl and think she would have been horrified by that description in her 20s. Yes, Catherine did soldier through to join the RF, but I do wonder if she considers it worth it in the end. Always having to feed the media must be exhausting. Because if you don't feed it, they will turn on you. And now she has three children and has to decide if she is going to protect George over Charlotte and Louis.
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Post by gar on Dec 19, 2022 23:39:58 GMT
FWIW, I never would describe Catherine as a nice, motherly English girl and think she would have been horrified by that description in her 20s. Yes, Catherine did soldier through to join the RF, but I do wonder if she considers it worth it in the end. Always having to feed the media must be exhausting. Because if you don't feed it, they will turn on you. And now she has three children and has to decide if she is going to protect George over Charlotte and Louis. It’s not like that at all these days. They have an arrangement so to speak with the media - they share pre planned special occasions such as the children’s first days at school etc and then they’re pretty much left alone. When did you last see a long lens pap shot of them?
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Post by pjaye on Dec 20, 2022 0:01:49 GMT
FWIW, I never would describe Catherine as a nice, motherly English girl and think she would have been horrified by that description in her 20s. Yes, Catherine did soldier through to join the RF, but I do wonder if she considers it worth it in the end. Always having to feed the media must be exhausting. Because if you don't feed it, they will turn on you. And now she has three children and has to decide if she is going to protect George over Charlotte and Louis. Why do you hate mothers so much? Why in your world is that such a negative statement that means someone is uneducated, unsophisticated, frumpy and dull? You have such a narrow, biased view with regards to that word...something you should work on. I think Catherine is an excellent representation of modern motherhood and I think she'd love that statement, especially considering her main area of focus has been in early childhood development. She clearly loves being a mother....and at the same time she is poised, sophisticated and accomplished, they aren't mutually exclusive. Being motherly is not an insult. Being kind, caring, nurturing and supportive of others are all fantastic qualities and worthy of praise and being proud of. She's also strong, has never shied away from the challenges of her role in the Royal family and based on what we see - she always looks genuinely happy and laughs a lot. I don't for a minute think she has to prioritize one child over another...that's another very dysfunctional statement and something a dysfunctional adult like Harry thinks is what happens in families.
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Post by wordfish on Dec 20, 2022 0:42:11 GMT
is a teeth-baring misogyny toward Meghan Of course you're going to white knight for her - while at the same time ignoring the real deal directed at Camilla. I was unaware this was about “the real deal directed toward Camilla,” whatever in the world that means. I actually like Camilla. I like the reading initiative and I love that she has a bolt hole. I’ve also ignored the current Kardashian drama on this thread, as well as whether King Charles is going to reduce his guest count for the coronation and which royal child dresses the best. Since this thread is not about any of these things to the best of my knowledge, it makes sense to me to ignore these things. I accept that others do not share my view of the Harry and Meghan thing. I don’t demand others accept the same thing for themselves. But at least if you could make an attempt at something approaching, let’s say, reasonably coherent, it would be a better discussion.
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Post by shamrockpea on Dec 20, 2022 1:00:41 GMT
I watched it. I found them to be both very likable. I appreciate their openness and willingness to discuss mental health issues which helps other people. Kudos to them both. I do hope things work out with their families.
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Post by pjaye on Dec 20, 2022 1:03:51 GMT
says Seanna the person who's communication style is 'word salad': That is the stance I am taking with you: Can I? Yes. Will I? No. If you see it elsewhere, then you already understand. You're the one who's always talking to herself in circles...and I see your ability to comprehend is now failing you as well. Time to move on if you can't keep up.
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Post by PeachStatePea on Dec 20, 2022 1:40:37 GMT
I watched the whole thing. So much was ignored, like the fact that Meghan was previously married. Her bio went from high school graduation to a role on Suits with nothing in between. I also found it strange when they talked about going somewhere private, just the two of them, like Africa or Tyler Perry's house, and yet they obviously had a photographer with them filming everything. Huh?? Who takes a videographer along on a private trip? When they were at Tyler Perry's house and were complaining about the paps getting photos, yet someone is standing right there with them filming the whole thing! It just seems weird.
I thought there would be a lot more criticism of the Royal Family than was shown. In the Oprah interview Harry mentioned that for a while Charles had refused to take his calls. Why?? Why would a father cut off communication with his son? Something major had to have happened between them but there was no mention of it. Maybe because it wouldn't look good for Harry?
The whole thing was so one-sided; the constant victimhood, the constant self-absorption, the complete lack of responsibility for anything they've done, overall I don't think it showed them in a good light.
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Post by wordfish on Dec 20, 2022 1:58:38 GMT
says Seanna the person who's communication style is 'word salad': That is the stance I am taking with you: Can I? Yes. Will I? No. If you see it elsewhere, then you already understand. You're the one who's always talking to herself in circles...and I see your ability to comprehend is now failing you as well. Time to move on if you can't keep up. I am pretty confident I communicate what I intend to communicate. It’s what enrages you so, pjaye. So no actual acknowledgment of the weirdness of your rather bizarre and left-field Camilla comment, then? What’s next? You order me to cease and desist engaging you in a discussion again? I actually don’t generally engage you, at your request.
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Post by pjaye on Dec 20, 2022 2:02:15 GMT
So much was ignored, like the fact that Meghan was previously married Yes the complete erasure of her previous relationships was interesting, She was with Trevor for 7 years and married for two and was living with Corey until (or just before depending on who you believe) she hooked up with Harry. She acts like this "newlywed" thing is all new to her and such a big adjustment but it isn't, she's been living with a man for the last 10 years. Again, it depends on what you choose to believe but Harry does touch on it in the show about Charles asking him to "put it in writing". The stories are the Charles was tired of being used as a bank, and that the only time Harry called him was to ask for money - so he started refusing to take his calls and asked him to email him first instead. The background to that is that obviously when they are members of the RF they don't have regular salaries. H&M were getting some money from the public sovereign grant which is used when they carry out public duties...but the rest of their money for their private use comes directly from Charles. That's why Harry says "he's in control of the money"...well yes he is, someone has to be.
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MDscrapaholic
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,590
Location: Down by the bay....
Jun 25, 2014 20:49:07 GMT
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Post by MDscrapaholic on Dec 20, 2022 2:17:10 GMT
I watched it. I found them to be both very likable. I appreciate their openness and willingness to discuss mental health issues which helps other people. Kudos to them both. I do hope things work out with their families. I thought the same thing. It was entertaining to watch. It amazes me that so many are up in arms about people they don't know personally. Today we're talking about H&M, tomorrow it'll be someone else. Who cares? Let them live.
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Post by Bridget in MD on Dec 20, 2022 2:29:32 GMT
I havent and most likely won't watch the documentary but I was wondering, what do people think of the disgusting comment by Jeremy Clarkson? Are they rally around MM/Harry more now? Does that make them more believable? JC has now trotted a "dear me, my bad! I'll have to do better" apology that I find almost as deplorable as his orignal comment of hating MM on a cellular level and wishing to trot her out naked, so people can throw things at her, GOT style. people.com/royals/jeremy-clarkson-condemned-meghan-markle-comments-after-attending-lunch-queen-camilla/IMO that is the kind of comment the royal palace should totallt squash down and reprimand, just like Lady Susan. but I guess they won't? I also totally think it was no coincidence that a bunch of the RF wore that cranberry color to Catherine's concert - kind of like a silent rebuttle to MM's comment that she never wore color and also you weren't supposed to wear the same color as members of the RF. They may not be making actual worded statements to the press, but boy a picture speaks a thousand words!
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Post by bc2ca on Dec 20, 2022 2:51:00 GMT
FWIW, I never would describe Catherine as a nice, motherly English girl and think she would have been horrified by that description in her 20s. Yes, Catherine did soldier through to join the RF, but I do wonder if she considers it worth it in the end. Always having to feed the media must be exhausting. Because if you don't feed it, they will turn on you. And now she has three children and has to decide if she is going to protect George over Charlotte and Louis. Why do you hate mothers so much? Why in your world is that such a negative statement that means someone is uneducated, unsophisticated, frumpy and dull? You have such a narrow, biased view with regards to that word...something you should work on. I think Catherine is an excellent representation of modern motherhood and I think she'd love that statement, especially considering her main area of focus has been in early childhood development. She clearly loves being a mother....and at the same time she is poised, sophisticated and accomplished, they aren't mutually exclusive. Being motherly is not an insult. Being kind, caring, nurturing and supportive of others are all fantastic qualities and worthy of praise and being proud of. She's also strong, has never shied away from the challenges of her role in the Royal family and based on what we see - she always looks genuinely happy and laughs a lot. I don't for a minute think she has to prioritize one child over another...that's another very dysfunctional statement and something a dysfunctional adult like Harry thinks is what happens in families. I 100% stand by my bolded comment. Especially being horrified by that description when a single woman in her 20s. Talk about revisionist. Where did frumpy, uneducated and dull come into the conversation? How do we transition to me hating mothers? I adore my mother. Being a mother is the biggest joy of my life. I've raised two fabulous kids who are thankfully healthy, well-adjusted and launching into the adult world. And yes, the heir is always prioritized over the spares. And it is what makes the RF dysfunctional and why it will always be dysfunctional. Harry knows it isn't something that happens in other families and it won't be the way he raises his kids. But William and Catherine have no choice but to recognize George's birthright and Charlotte and Louis will always be forced to recognize his superiority. And, as I've said many times, I like and admire Catherine. And I also think she has some soul crushing challenges in front of her. It’s not like that at all these days. They have an arrangement so to speak with the media - they share pre planned special occasions such as the children’s first days at school etc and then they’re pretty much left alone. When did you last see a long lens pap shot of them? At this point it isn't about the pap shots, but feeding the insatiable appetite of the BM, SM and talking heads for stories. As G, C & L get older the stories will start to be about them.
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Post by pjaye on Dec 20, 2022 4:19:39 GMT
And yes, the heir is always prioritized over the spares. And it is what makes the RF dysfunctional and why it will always be dysfunctional. Harry knows it isn't something that happens in other families and it won't be the way he raises his kids. But William and Catherine have no choice but to recognize George's birthright and Charlotte and Louis will always be forced to recognize his superiority. You're buying into Harry's bullshit hook line and sinker. No-one is "superior" that's just a ridiculous statement. Harry just couldn't deal with William having a different path carved out for him...and that didn't mean in any way he was a "better" person. But thank God William was born first is all I can say! Harry seems to have inherited all the worst traits of his famous ancestor. He'd probably be chopping off heads if he could get away with it (I better spell it out for you - that's a joke. ) It can be argued that the other kids have it better - they get to choose whatever they want without some of the restrictions of the first born. Harry had the world at his feet and could have done so many things, he was free to choose whatever he wanted, but instead he's an entitled brat who's chosen to make a living out of bitching about not having the same job as his brother. Where did frumpy, uneducated and dull come into the conversation? because you've said several times that "sophisticated & accomplished" are the opposite of motherly. So that has to be what you think mothers are like.
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mamapeaah
Full Member
Posts: 326
Sept 30, 2021 4:39:02 GMT
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Post by mamapeaah on Dec 20, 2022 11:45:39 GMT
OMG they are releasing a new documentary about leaders that they didn't even create. They got it prefab and sold it to Netflix and added in a few scenes of Meghan talking. This has clips about Greta Thunberg, Nelson Mandela, Gloria Steinman etc. I don't know what to think of it except why don't they themselves go out and do something noteworthy?
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Post by gillyp on Dec 20, 2022 12:35:22 GMT
Harry is to be interviewed by Tom Bradby in the New Year prior to his book launch. Tom has known him for years and is the journalist to whom Meghan said she was not ok.
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Post by Bridget in MD on Dec 20, 2022 12:48:34 GMT
OMG they are releasing a new documentary about leaders that they didn't even create. They got it prefab and sold it to Netflix and added in a few scenes of Meghan talking. This has clips about Greta Thunberg, Nelson Mandela, Gloria Steinman etc. I don't know what to think of it except why don't they themselves go out and do something noteworthy? I feel like after 2 years of not producing ANYTHING we are getting it all, right now. Podcasts, netflix specials, books, etc. LOL.
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Post by gar on Dec 20, 2022 13:26:35 GMT
Harry is to be interviewed by Tom Bradby in the New Year prior to his book launch. Tom has known him for years and is the journalist to whom Meghan said she was not ok. I might watch that - I like Tom B and hopefully he might dig a little and question some things a bit.
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Post by gillyp on Dec 20, 2022 15:21:37 GMT
Harry is to be interviewed by Tom Bradby in the New Year prior to his book launch. Tom has known him for years and is the journalist to whom Meghan said she was not ok. I might watch that - I like Tom B and hopefully he might dig a little and question some things a bit. I like TB too but I feel he will be nice and not ask the pertinent questions. We shall see. Just had a thought / I wonder how H&M’s antics would have stood up to being interviewed by Robin Day or David Frost!
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Post by **GypsyGirl** on Dec 20, 2022 16:24:43 GMT
I feel like after 2 years of not producing ANYTHING we are getting it all, right now. Podcasts, netflix specials, books, etc. LOL. It takes a good bit of time for these types of projects to be written, produced, filmed, etc. Then when you consider that the world was shut down for the first year or so after they left the RF, it's understandable that many are just now hitting the market. There is probably a sense of urgency as well. The more time that passes, the further they get from having had any time as working royals which will mean their draw will lessen with time. The feeling to me is that they are trying to strike while the iron is still warm (the hot phase has passed IMO).
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Post by bc2ca on Dec 20, 2022 16:30:02 GMT
because you've said several times that "sophisticated & accomplished" are the opposite of motherly. So that has to be what you think mothers are like. I never said these are opposites. Not even once, let alone several times. You have assumed something that is not true. Just to clarify, based on her public persona, some words I would use to describe Catherine are sophisticated, charming, compassionate, articulate, beautiful, kind, caring, warm, nice, motherly, optimistic, pleasant, agreeable, happy, devoted, strong, accomplished and protective. Looking at that list and narrowing it down to two, I do think she would be happier hearing sophisticated & accomplished over nice & motherly. YMMV
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Post by KiwiJo on Dec 20, 2022 21:20:05 GMT
OMG they are releasing a new documentary about leaders that they didn't even create. They got it prefab and sold it to Netflix and added in a few scenes of Meghan talking. This has clips about Greta Thunberg, Nelson Mandela, Gloria Steinman etc. I don't know what to think of it except why don't they themselves go out and do something noteworthy? Yes, this is the leading article in our national newspaper this morning: Jacinda Adern blindsided by Harry and Meghan Netflix doco
It’s a very interesting article about how our Prime Minister, Jacinda Adern came to involved in something led by H & M. She was interviewed by the Nelson Mandela Foundation in November 2019 with the interview to feature in print & digital books, short film & audiobook (along with Greta Thunberg, Gloria Steinman etc). She was told in March 2021 that her interview would be in a Netflix documentary, and it wasn’t until May this year that she learned H & M would be involved. Which, as the article says, nearly created a minor constitutional crisis because a current NZ Prime Minister simply cannot appear “to take the side of the renegade prince against his father King Charles, New Zealand’s Head of State.” It has put her in a difficult position, for sure, being unwittingly involved in this.
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