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Post by MichyM on Dec 8, 2022 20:55:56 GMT
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Post by Merge on Dec 8, 2022 20:56:52 GMT
Yes, only one person said that as I recall. It was just an example. I guess my question for the rest is - if a pretty, blonde American woman visiting a conservative Arab country was caught in what appeared to be an act of adultery and sentenced to death by stoning, would everyone be so on board with “she did the crime, let her take the punishment?”I think most of us recognize that some other country’s laws or punishments amount to human rights violations, and that we have some obligation to see that our citizens don’t have their rights violated abroad because some dictator wants to make a point. I'll be honest (and said in the nicest way possible) this feels like a straw man argument to me. Really? Why? You don't think it could happen? Stoning is still a legal (though rare) form of punishment in some middle eastern countries. What if the woman had been taken up by the morality police for letting her hijab slip and died in their custody? Hard to call that a straw man argument. Let's take a real life example - Jamal Kashoggi. He criticized the Saudis, and paid a terrible price for it via their "justice" system. One might argue that being kidnapped and brutally murdered is not a justice system, but if often is what passes for justice in Saudi if you piss off the wrong people. Similarly, what passes for a justice system in Russia really isn't one. (If we want to take the Biden administration to task on something, I strongly disagree with the guidance to not hold the Saudi prince responsible for Kashoggi's death.) I guess we should have just left the Saudis to it. I mean, Jamal should have known better than to participate in accurate journalism about them, right?
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Post by katlady on Dec 8, 2022 20:59:39 GMT
Does that mean he became a US citizen (I thought you had to be to serve in the US armed forces). You can serve in the US military with a green card. It doesn't automatically make you a US citizen though.
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Post by MichyM on Dec 8, 2022 21:04:46 GMT
I'll be honest (and said in the nicest way possible) this feels like a straw man argument to me. Really? Why? You don't think it could happen? Stoning is still a legal (though rare) form of punishment in some middle eastern countries. What if the woman had been taken up by the morality police for letting her hijab slip and died in their custody? Hard to call that a straw man argument. Let's take a real life example - Jamal Kashoggi. He criticized the Saudis, and paid a terrible price for it via their "justice" system. One might argue that being kidnapped and brutally murdered is not a justice system, but if often is what passes for justice in Saudi if you piss off the wrong people. Similarly, what passes for a justice system in Russia really isn't one. (If we want to take the Biden administration to task on something, I strongly disagree with the guidance to not hold the Saudi prince responsible for Kashoggi's death.) I guess we should have just left the Saudis to it. I mean, Jamal should have known better than to participate in accurate journalism about them, right? Respectfully, I think it's a straw man argument in that it has nothing to do with Griner and her case. My son is gay. He has visited countries where being gay is illegal with strong consequences. He is bright enough not to engage in PDAs in those countries. What happened to K hashoggi with the Saudis has nothing to do with what happened to Griner with Russia. There is no comparision.
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ddly
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,019
Jul 10, 2014 19:36:28 GMT
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Post by ddly on Dec 8, 2022 21:08:15 GMT
This is great but I would love to see Paul Whelan released.
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Post by Merge on Dec 8, 2022 21:11:04 GMT
Really? Why? You don't think it could happen? Stoning is still a legal (though rare) form of punishment in some middle eastern countries. What if the woman had been taken up by the morality police for letting her hijab slip and died in their custody? Hard to call that a straw man argument. Let's take a real life example - Jamal Kashoggi. He criticized the Saudis, and paid a terrible price for it via their "justice" system. One might argue that being kidnapped and brutally murdered is not a justice system, but if often is what passes for justice in Saudi if you piss off the wrong people. Similarly, what passes for a justice system in Russia really isn't one. (If we want to take the Biden administration to task on something, I strongly disagree with the guidance to not hold the Saudi prince responsible for Kashoggi's death.) I guess we should have just left the Saudis to it. I mean, Jamal should have known better than to participate in accurate journalism about them, right? Respectfully, I think it's a straw man argument in that it has nothing to do with Griner and her case. My son is gay. He has visited countries where being gay is illegal with strong consequences. He is bright enough not to engage in PDAs in those countries. What happened to K hashoggi with the Saudis has nothing to do with what happened to Griner with Russia. There is no comparision. Thank you for the spelling correction. I think you're wildly naive if you don't believe that your son - if he were someone of a high profile or political importance - could be imprisoned in those countries just on the suspicion of engaging in homosexual behavior. A fond glance, an overly familiar pat on the back, going into the same hotel room. Justice there is not like justice here. I think there's a strong comparison. We're dealing with two countries whose justice systems are largely unjust, and who have a record of imprisoning or killing Americans for political purposes rather than to deter crime. Are the specifics of the cases the same? No. But in broad strokes, we're dealing with Americans being treated unjustly by any basic human rights standards. We have a vested interest in not allowing that to happen. Our own laws require us to treat foreign prisoners by our own human rights standards, and we have to insist that our citizens in other countries receive the same treatment.
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Post by mom on Dec 8, 2022 21:19:31 GMT
Not to get in a pissing match with you, but who (besides our resident Trump supporter) is insinuating she shouldn't have been brought home because they dont agree with her politics? What I am reading is that people are taking Griner at her word when she said she had the drugs and that if you break a law in another country then you should accept their punishment. Yes, only one person said that as I recall. It was just an example. I guess my question for the rest is - if a pretty, blonde American woman visiting a conservative Arab country was caught in what appeared to be an act of adultery and sentenced to death by stoning, would everyone be so on board with “she did the crime, let her take the punishment?”
I think most of us recognize that some other country’s laws or punishments amount to human rights violations, and that we have some obligation to see that our citizens don’t have their rights violated abroad because some dictator wants to make a point. Yes, let her take the punishment. I've lived in Russia (as a minor without my parents there) and even then (mid nineties), I knew not to do anything that would break a law, not to appear to be indifferent to Russian culture and history or draw attention to myself. I was well aware that I was a guest of their country and whatever the laws were at home, while I was there I had to follow their laws and customs. As an adult who travels internationally, I know that I have to be prepared to be above board, everywhere I go and to evaluate the risks of a country before I go (considering political climate, risks with cartel, etc). Does it mean I think we shouldn't as a country fight for other countries to be more humane in their treatment of criminals and for them to have a more fair justice system? No. I think you can hold both ideas to be true. But until any changes are made, when in you're in another country, you follow their rules and be prepared to accept their punishments for breaking their laws.
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Post by MichyM on Dec 8, 2022 21:22:34 GMT
Respectfully, I think it's a straw man argument in that it has nothing to do with Griner and her case. My son is gay. He has visited countries where being gay is illegal with strong consequences. He is bright enough not to engage in PDAs in those countries. What happened to K hashoggi with the Saudis has nothing to do with what happened to Griner with Russia. There is no comparision. Thank you for the spelling correction. I think you're wildly naive if you don't believe that your son - if he were someone of a high profile or political importance - could be imprisoned in those countries just on the suspicion of engaging in homosexual behavior. A fond glance, an overly familiar pat on the back, going into the same hotel room. Justice there is not like justice here. I think there's a strong comparison. We're dealing with two countries whose justice systems are largely unjust, and who have a record of imprisoning or killing Americans for political purposes rather than to deter crime. Are the specifics of the cases the same? No. But in broad strokes, we're dealing with Americans being treated unjustly by any basic human rights standards. We have a vested interest in not allowing that to happen. Our own laws require us to treat foreign prisoners by our own human rights standards, and we have to insist that our citizens in other countries receive the same treatment. I cannot disagree with your first paragraph, though I do not care for, nor agree with your assessment that I am naive of the ways of the world. Beyond that, I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Post by myshelly on Dec 8, 2022 21:23:58 GMT
Not to get in a pissing match with you, but who (besides our resident Trump supporter) is insinuating she shouldn't have been brought home because they dont agree with her politics? What I am reading is that people are taking Griner at her word when she said she had the drugs and that if you break a law in another country then you should accept their punishment. Yes, only one person said that as I recall. It was just an example. I guess my question for the rest is - if a pretty, blonde American woman visiting a conservative Arab country was caught in what appeared to be an act of adultery and sentenced to death by stoning, would everyone be so on board with “she did the crime, let her take the punishment?” I think most of us recognize that some other country’s laws or punishments amount to human rights violations, and that we have some obligation to see that our citizens don’t have their rights violated abroad because some dictator wants to make a point. 100% yes, I would be on board with taking the punishment. Americans need to realize that we don’t have a right to visit the whole world. If there is a country with backwards laws and unfair punishments, don’t go there. The solution is not that the American government should swoop in to negotiate for every American who gets arrested abroad, the solution is Americans should stop acting like idiots when they travel. This deal sets a bad example. It sets a bad example to people who think they will be rescued from ridiculous situations by virtue of being Americans and it lets enemy countries know that our government will negotiate for our citizens.
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Post by MichyM on Dec 8, 2022 21:28:26 GMT
Yes, only one person said that as I recall. It was just an example. I guess my question for the rest is - if a pretty, blonde American woman visiting a conservative Arab country was caught in what appeared to be an act of adultery and sentenced to death by stoning, would everyone be so on board with “she did the crime, let her take the punishment?” I think most of us recognize that some other country’s laws or punishments amount to human rights violations, and that we have some obligation to see that our citizens don’t have their rights violated abroad because some dictator wants to make a point. 100% yes, I would be on board with taking the punishment. Americans need to realize that we don’t have a right to visit the whole world. If there is a country with backwards laws and unfair punishments, don’t go there. The solution is not that the American government should swoop in to negotiate for every American who gets arrested abroad, the solution is Americans should stop acting like idiots when they travel.This deal sets a bad example. It sets a bad example to people who think they will be rescued from ridiculous situations by virtue of being Americans and it lets enemy countries know that our government will negotiate for our citizens. We totally agree on this.
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Post by Merge on Dec 8, 2022 21:28:38 GMT
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Post by katlady on Dec 8, 2022 21:32:20 GMT
Our own laws require us to treat foreign prisoners by our own human rights standards, and we have to insist that our citizens in other countries receive the same treatment. Yes, we treat foreigners by OUR standards. Other countries are treating foreigners by their standards. We don't have a right to tell other countries how to treat people. It would be great if every country did not treat people like dirt, but that is not going to happen. We (Americans) just need to be aware of the pitfalls of traveling to certain parts of the world and behave appropriately for the country we are visiting.
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Post by Merge on Dec 8, 2022 21:35:22 GMT
Yes, only one person said that as I recall. It was just an example. I guess my question for the rest is - if a pretty, blonde American woman visiting a conservative Arab country was caught in what appeared to be an act of adultery and sentenced to death by stoning, would everyone be so on board with “she did the crime, let her take the punishment?” I think most of us recognize that some other country’s laws or punishments amount to human rights violations, and that we have some obligation to see that our citizens don’t have their rights violated abroad because some dictator wants to make a point. 100% yes, I would be on board with taking the punishment. Americans need to realize that we don’t have a right to visit the whole world. If there is a country with backwards laws and unfair punishments, don’t go there. The solution is not that the American government should swoop in to negotiate for every American who gets arrested abroad, the solution is Americans should stop acting like idiots when they travel. This deal sets a bad example. It sets a bad example to people who think they will be rescued from ridiculous situations by virtue of being Americans and it lets enemy countries know that our government will negotiate for our citizens. You do realize that Texas is now a place with "backward laws and unfair punishments," right? I find your comment about what "Americans need to realize" pretty rich considering that you've stated here multiple times and in multiple ways that you don't care who suffers or has to pay in order for you to go where you want when you please. Most people traveling abroad do not believe that they've entered a "ridiculous situation." They're just traveling, or doing their jobs, or whatever. The vast majority of Americans who travel abroad are not made into political pawns. I mean, do you realize what would happen here in Texas if all the oil company people were told they could no longer travel to Saudi because of its laws? Like it or not, we do a LOT of business there, and in other conservative Muslim countries.
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Post by Merge on Dec 8, 2022 21:38:14 GMT
Our own laws require us to treat foreign prisoners by our own human rights standards, and we have to insist that our citizens in other countries receive the same treatment. Yes, we treat foreigners by OUR standards. Other countries are treating foreigners by their standards. We don't have a right to tell other countries how to treat people. It would be great if every country did not treat people like dirt, but that is not going to happen. We (Americans) just need to be aware of the pitfalls of traveling to certain parts of the world and behave appropriately for the country we are visiting. Disagree. When we allow Americans to be held as political prisoners for extended periods of time, that sends the message that Americans are fair game abroad. When we allow Americans to be held to standards based on repressive religious beliefs, it sends a message HERE that harsh punishments based on religious beliefs are legitimate. We're not talking about being kicked out of a cathedral in Rome because your shoulders aren't covered.
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Post by Merge on Dec 8, 2022 21:42:23 GMT
I'm out on this one, y'all. Said what I wanted to say. Sorry I won't be responding to any further posts.
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Post by myshelly on Dec 8, 2022 21:42:26 GMT
100% yes, I would be on board with taking the punishment. Americans need to realize that we don’t have a right to visit the whole world. If there is a country with backwards laws and unfair punishments, don’t go there. The solution is not that the American government should swoop in to negotiate for every American who gets arrested abroad, the solution is Americans should stop acting like idiots when they travel. This deal sets a bad example. It sets a bad example to people who think they will be rescued from ridiculous situations by virtue of being Americans and it lets enemy countries know that our government will negotiate for our citizens. You do realize that Texas is now a place with "backward laws and unfair punishments," right? I find your comment about what "Americans need to realize" pretty rich considering that you've stated here multiple times and in multiple ways that you don't care who suffers or has to pay in order for you to go where you want when you please. Most people traveling abroad do not believe that they've entered a "ridiculous situation." They're just traveling, or doing their jobs, or whatever. The vast majority of Americans who travel abroad are not made into political pawns. I mean, do you realize what would happen here in Texas if all the oil company people were told they could no longer travel to Saudi because of its laws? Like it or not, we do a LOT of business there, and in other conservative Muslim countries. I feel like your post has become nonsensical and devolved into a personal attack. If you’d like to return to the subject, I’d be happy to talk. If an oil man from Texas travels to Saudi, he should obey all the laws there, including laws about drugs and adultery. If he doesn’t, he should expect punishment allowed by their laws, including stoning. What exactly do you want me to find to argue with there? BG got herself into a ridiculous situation. She should not have travelled to Russia when everyone knew Russia was on the brink of war. She wouldn’t have taken drugs to a foreign country. She did. US citizens traveling within the US have rights and privileges that we aren’t discussing in this thread because they are in no way comparable to the situation at hand.
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 8, 2022 21:56:01 GMT
Wait one second. We arn't entitled to an opinion on here anymore?? unless we are an expert? come on! Freedom of speech girl. Hahahaha!!! Don't you know that the answer to that question is a big fat no??? Nobody is entitled to an opinion except the bullies here. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. You are not entitled to your own set of facts.
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Post by birukitty on Dec 8, 2022 22:14:41 GMT
From what I read a while back ago Brittney was considered a celebrity to the Russians and was given lots of perks due to her connections. They said that she never had to even really go through much of a security check because of who she was/with. Then the rug got pulled out from under her when they needed to use her as a pawn. I'm thinking that is probably more the truth than anything else. It's just awful and the only ray of light in this whole thing is that she is safe at home again, with her family and loved ones. I'm sure she'll have some awful PTSD and her life will never be the same. For a mistake in trusting her employers. This makes complete sense to me. So now I'm realizing she did know she had the cannabis oil in her suitcase and she knowingly brought it into Russia. She did this because with her celebrity status she'd gotten away with it before in the past due to her perks which included a less involved security check. Because of this I think she was a complete idiot and I'm not happy with the prisoner exchange. It was against the law in Russia with severe penalties and most adults realize things can change in life-often without warning. Had Brittney never seen one episode of "Locked Up Abroad"? I don't know about you but when I was a teen in 1978 the movie "Midnight Express" came out and I never forgot it. Cured me of ever even thinking of taking anything illegal on an airplane! I think Brittany thought her "celebrity" status would protect her. I'm angry a notorious arms dealer was released from our custody and sent home to do who knows how much damage in the future to innocent lives because this young woman thought the rules didn't apply to her .
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Post by onelasttime on Dec 8, 2022 22:28:27 GMT
A couple of points… 1. Griner has said she put the two cartridges into her suitcase by mistake while rushing to pack her suitcase. If anyone has verifiable proof she is lying, please provide otherwise she should be taken her at her word. 2, From the Independent - link“In Russia, cannabis is illegal. An individual possessing less than 6 grams of cannabis or two grams of hash can be fined or jailed for up to 15 days. Possessing any more than that becomes a more serious criminal offense. Griner was accused of having less than a gram.“Being sufficiently aware that the movement of narcotic drugs is not allowed… no later than February 17, 2022 at an unspecified location under unspecified circumstances from an unidentified person [ Ms Griner] bought two cartridges for personal use, which contained 0.252 grams and 0.45 grams of hash oil, totaling 0.702 grams,” the prosecutor said during the trial, TASS reported.” 3. The maximum sentence for drugs in Russia is 10 years. She received a sentence of 9 years for being found with less than 1 gram of drugs. Which if the Independent is correct in their research the sentence, for the amount found, should have resulted in a fine and a maximum of 15 days in the slammer instead of the 9 year sentence she was given. That after waiting 10 months for a trial. Because of who she is and because Russia is not happy with the United States she was treated as a political pawn instead of some poor smuck caught with less than a gram of drugs for their personal use in their luggage. I’m not a fan of the fact that pot is now legal in some states including the one I live in. But she did nothing to deserve what has happened to her in Russia. And President Biden was right to make a deal to bring her home. Now we have to figure out what the real reason Whelan is being held and why then president trump did nothing to bring him home the last two years he was president. I mean after all trump and Putin were buddies so it should have been a simple matter to get him released. Right?
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 8, 2022 22:29:09 GMT
The crimes of Griner and Bout are unequal. However, prisoner swaps are rarely equal trades. In 2010, the US gave up 10 Russians in exchange for 4 Americans. Or, in 2014, the US traded 3 Cuban spies for 1 US intelligence officer. The inequality of the crimes does not necessarily mean that it was a bad trade. Democratic countries place a higher value on life. For whatever reason, Russia was not willing to release Whelen. I'm willing to give the Biden administration the benefit of doubt that they did everything possible to bring Whelen home as well, but Russia was unwilling to negotiate for him. There was another trade earlier this year that didn't include Whelen, a former US Marine in exchange for a Russian pilot convicted of drug smuggling. Something else to consider. the Columbian terrorists that Bout was accused of arming have blended back into society. Some of the terrorists even serve in their legislature. www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/12/08/viktor-bout-brittney-griner-farc/www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE6680KB20100709www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/12/17/371453374/prisoner-exchange-with-cuba-led-to-freedom-for-top-u-s-spywww.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/08/who-is-paul-whelan/David Whelan, Paul’s brother, said in a statement that U.S. officials told them on Wednesday that Paul wouldn’t be part of the exchange that freed Griner and expressed pessimism about the chance of seeing his brother go free.
“It’s clear that the U.S. government has no concessions that the Russian government will take for Paul Whelan. And so Paul will remain a prisoner until that changes,” he said while applauding Griner’s release.
A national security official said Thursday that Whelan was never really an option for the Russians during the negotiations about freeing Griner, and that due to the nature of the espionage charges against him, Russians rejected all the proposals U.S. officials presented them. “This is not a situation where we had a choice of which American to bring home. It was a choice of bringing home one American, Brittney Griner, or bringing home none,” the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity on a call with reporters.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Dec 8, 2022 22:39:30 GMT
From what I read a while back ago Brittney was considered a celebrity to the Russians and was given lots of perks due to her connections. They said that she never had to even really go through much of a security check because of who she was/with. Then the rug got pulled out from under her when they needed to use her as a pawn. I'm thinking that is probably more the truth than anything else. It's just awful and the only ray of light in this whole thing is that she is safe at home again, with her family and loved ones. I'm sure she'll have some awful PTSD and her life will never be the same. For a mistake in trusting her employers. This makes complete sense to me. So now I'm realizing she did know she had the cannabis oil in her suitcase and she knowingly brought it into Russia. She did this because with her celebrity status she'd gotten away with it before in the past due to her perks which included a less involved security check. Because of this I think she was a complete idiot and I'm not happy with the prisoner exchange. It was against the law in Russia with severe penalties and most adults realize things can change in life-often without warning. Had Brittney never seen one episode of "Locked Up Abroad"? I don't know about you but when I was a teen in 1978 the movie "Midnight Express" came out and I never forgot it. Cured me of ever even thinking of taking anything illegal on an airplane! I think Brittany thought her "celebrity" status would protect her. I'm angry a notorious arms dealer was released from our custody and sent home to do who knows how much damage in the future to innocent lives because this young woman thought the rules didn't apply to her . Do you believe this now because of speculation from some on this thread? Or do you know for a fact that is what happened?
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Post by SockMonkey on Dec 8, 2022 22:40:41 GMT
Putting aside the armchair degrees in geopolitics some of y'all seem to have gotten from, I don't know, QVC, this thread has been disheartening.
Brittany Griner is not a druggie. She's not a bad person. She is deserving of her freedom and safety. For some folks to not see that she deserves basic human rights and a due process that is respectful of basic humanity is...wild.
Want better for the world, I beg of you.
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Post by SockMonkey on Dec 8, 2022 22:52:24 GMT
My first thought was this is a good thing. My second thought is there are a lot of people out there giving legitimacy to Russia's "justice" system. You are not fighting on the side of justice if you demand people fulfil the terms of an unfair system. Doubly so, if you don't like the person involved. For real. It's giving a "well, they sat at the front of the bus and they should have followed the rules instead because those were the rules" vibe. Either you believe in working toward a more just world, or you don't. 🤷🏼♀️
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Post by MichyM on Dec 8, 2022 22:53:20 GMT
Putting aside the armchair degrees in geopolitics some of y'all seem to have gotten from, I don't know, QVC, this thread has been disheartening. Brittany Griner is not a druggie. She's not a bad person. She is deserving of her freedom and safety. For some folks to not see that she deserves basic human rights and a due process that is respectful of basic humanity is...wild. Want better for the world, I beg of you.No one said they don't want better of the world. To insinuate that those who disagree with you are not respectful of basic humanity itself is...wild. If you want to make a difference, don't do it by breaking said country's laws and then make your country come get you if you get thrown in prison. Even if you are being made an example of (as we all know that Griner was) with an exceptionally harsh sentence. I swear, some people here (not directed towards anyone in particular) need to spend time outside of the Americas, Caribbean, and Europe. ETA: like Merge, I'm tapping out. It is OK to disagree with one another. RESPECTFULLY.
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Post by SockMonkey on Dec 8, 2022 22:55:23 GMT
Putting aside the armchair degrees in geopolitics some of y'all seem to have gotten from, I don't know, QVC, this thread has been disheartening. Brittany Griner is not a druggie. She's not a bad person. She is deserving of her freedom and safety. For some folks to not see that she deserves basic human rights and a due process that is respectful of basic humanity is...wild. Want better for the world, I beg of you.No one said they don't want better of the world. To insinuate that those who disagree with you are not respectful of basic humanity itself is...wild. If you want to make a difference, don't do it by breaking said country's laws and then make your country come get you if you get thrown in prison. Even if you are being made an example of (as we all know that Griner was) with an exceptionally harsh sentence. I swear, some people here (not directed towards anyone in particular) need to spend time outside of the Americas, Caribbean, and Europe. If you think she should have rotted in a Russian prison for that minor infraction, I don't think you believe in real justice. I fully support the effort and success in bringing Griner home.
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Post by myshelly on Dec 8, 2022 23:04:26 GMT
Putting aside the armchair degrees in geopolitics some of y'all seem to have gotten from, I don't know, QVC, this thread has been disheartening. Brittany Griner is not a druggie. She's not a bad person. She is deserving of her freedom and safety. For some folks to not see that she deserves basic human rights and a due process that is respectful of basic humanity is...wild. Want better for the world, I beg of you. Actually, she IS a bad person. Have you read her history of domestic violence? She’s an abuser. I thought we were supposed to not be ok with people beating women, or is that only if the abuser is a man?
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Post by ntsf on Dec 8, 2022 23:12:16 GMT
boy.. add indonesia to the list of countries to be very wary of... sex outside of marriage is now banned. bali is worried that all the australians will no longer visit.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Dec 8, 2022 23:19:13 GMT
Putting aside the armchair degrees in geopolitics some of y'all seem to have gotten from, I don't know, QVC, this thread has been disheartening. Brittany Griner is not a druggie. She's not a bad person. She is deserving of her freedom and safety. For some folks to not see that she deserves basic human rights and a due process that is respectful of basic humanity is...wild. Want better for the world, I beg of you. Actually, she IS a bad person. Have you read her history of domestic violence? She’s an abuser. I thought we were supposed to not be ok with people beating women, or is that only if the abuser is a man? Have you read up on what happened during the altercation between Griner and her ex-wife?
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Post by myshelly on Dec 8, 2022 23:27:04 GMT
My first thought was this is a good thing. My second thought is there are a lot of people out there giving legitimacy to Russia's "justice" system. You are not fighting on the side of justice if you demand people fulfil the terms of an unfair system. Doubly so, if you don't like the person involved. For real. It's giving a "well, they sat at the front of the bus and they should have followed the rules instead because those were the rules" vibe. Either you believe in working toward a more just world, or you don't. 🤷🏼♀️ That’s a ridiculous comparison. What civil rights was BG fighting for? The right to do drugs in every country? Rosa Parks would be so proud 🙄 Do I want a more just world? Of course. Do I think that negotiating with Putin will in any way make a more just world? No.
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Post by SockMonkey on Dec 8, 2022 23:27:14 GMT
Putting aside the armchair degrees in geopolitics some of y'all seem to have gotten from, I don't know, QVC, this thread has been disheartening. Brittany Griner is not a druggie. She's not a bad person. She is deserving of her freedom and safety. For some folks to not see that she deserves basic human rights and a due process that is respectful of basic humanity is...wild. Want better for the world, I beg of you. Actually, she IS a bad person. Have you read her history of domestic violence? She’s an abuser. I thought we were supposed to not be ok with people beating women, or is that only if the abuser is a man? Even if I give you that she's a "bad person," she served her sentence for her guilty plea to disorderly conduct, took her punishment of suspension, and sought treatment. Is what you're saying that Russia should be allowed to disproportionately punish her for a minor infraction and let her rot in prison because of a charge she already had consequences for in the United States seven years ago? I just need some clarity there.
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