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Post by scrapmaven on Feb 16, 2024 20:49:50 GMT
I deleted my post, because I realize I typed when I was really upset. I don't argue with antisemitism, because it's a waste of my good energy. I'm just as upset today. When I see a friend leave due to antisemitism I can't stay silent. Op, if you would just openly tell us that you hate Jews I'd respect your honesty. You are not a nice person and I have no use for anything you say. elaine, don't let ignorance and hatred drive you away. Stand strong with those of ud who are fighting against hate. I'm Jewish. I'm not the devil. sideways, you sound antisemetic.if you're trying not to, then rethink your words.
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Post by sideways on Feb 16, 2024 21:03:54 GMT
I deleted my post, because I realize I typed when I was really upset. I don't argue with antisemitism, because it's a waste of my good energy. I'm just as upset today. When I see a friend leave due to antisemitism I can't stay silent. Op, if you would just openly tell us that you hate Jess I'd respect your honesty. You are not a nice person and I have no use for anything you say. elaine , don't let ignorance and hatred drive you away. Stand strong with those of who are fighting against hate. I'm Jewish. I'm not the devil. sideways , you sound antisemetic.if you're trying not to, then rethink your words. How so? Be specific. What EXACTLY is it that I said that is anti-Semitic.
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pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,247
Jun 19, 2022 16:48:04 GMT
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Post by pantsonfire on Feb 16, 2024 21:13:16 GMT
I'm just trying to figure out where the ignorance and hate is.
Aren't we big girls with our big girl panties on?
I see a bigger problem with peas coming to threads to throw out anger and hurtful words and call others names.
No where in this thread has anyone been ignorant or hateful.
The majority of us are fed up with how Israel is handling the on going conflict. You can indeed be pro Jewish supporter yet anti war crimes by Israel.
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pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,247
Jun 19, 2022 16:48:04 GMT
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Post by pantsonfire on Feb 16, 2024 21:13:36 GMT
I deleted my post, because I realize I typed when I was really upset. I don't argue with antisemitism, because it's a waste of my good energy. I'm just as upset today. When I see a friend leave due to antisemitism I can't stay silent. Op, if you would just openly tell us that you hate Jess I'd respect your honesty. You are not a nice person and I have no use for anything you say. elaine , don't let ignorance and hatred drive you away. Stand strong with those of who are fighting against hate. I'm Jewish. I'm not the devil. sideways , you sound antisemetic.if you're trying not to, then rethink your words. How so? Be specific. What EXACTLY is it that I said that is anti-Semitic. This. Because it's not.
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Post by sideways on Feb 16, 2024 21:20:03 GMT
How so? Be specific. What EXACTLY is it that I said that is anti-Semitic. This. Because it's not. I’d just like to know exactly what “sounds” anti-Semitic in anything I’ve written. I’m told I “sound” that way with no explanation as to what I said that makes me sound that way. Unless any criticism of Israel in any way is considered anti-Semitic. I can differentiate between Israel and Jews the same way I can Hamas and Palestinians.
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Post by scrapmaven on Feb 16, 2024 21:31:16 GMT
I said my piece and I have nothing more to offer.
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Post by sideways on Feb 16, 2024 21:35:04 GMT
I said my piece and I have nothing more to offer. You’re going to claim that what I said is anti-Semitic, basically calling me an anti-Semite and when I ask for you to specify what exactly makes my words anti-Semitic, you refuse. Because I don’t like innocent people being killed, I’m anti-Semitic. Ok. Fucking coward. Go fuck yourself.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 16, 2024 21:35:16 GMT
To Ukraine-yes. To Israel, which is our ally-yes with conditions, because of Netanyahu and his cadre of right wingers. Aid must go into Gaza. But having said that, I believe that Hamas must be eliminated.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 16, 2024 21:39:52 GMT
But what else can you call it? With what is going on currently, and what went on in the 1940s and 1960s, is just that. Israel is taking out Palestinians and Palestine. What they have done goes way beyond war ethic codes. When the UN and countries and others are calling for a cease fire because there is no turning back, the situation is very grave. No side is right here but Israel is doing way more harm to Palestine. Israel is trying to justify their actions. There is no justifying what they have done. There is nothing anti-semetic about it. It's calling Israel out for their horrific war crimes. Palestinians have no home. Exactly. Scrapmaven may have deleted that comment because I don't see it now. The idea of a Jewish nation sounds like a good plan, except that there were people already living there, and at the time Jewish people were not the majority. That had to change somehow. That happened in part by pushing the others out and not allowing them to come back to their homes (and subsequently changing laws to give Jews more rights, etc) and bringing more Jews in. I consider that to be ethnic cleansing but am curious what others would call it. ETA that that statement also does not mean that I hate all Jews, or that I support Hamas. I can understand why Palestinians would want to fight back, but Hamas has not been helpful at all for their cause or for Palestinians as a whole. Palestinians have not been innocent in getting things to where they are today. I strongly believe that both sides are going to have to recognize and acknowledge where things have gone wrong--and their roles in it--in order to move forwards. Right now, though, the situation in Gaza is dire and It needs to stop. I mean, for that matter, you could say that about the US-or a lot of other countries. What did settlers here to to the natives that were already living here? Nothing good.
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Post by sideways on Feb 16, 2024 21:41:39 GMT
I'm just trying to figure out where the ignorance and hate is. Aren't we big girls with our big girl panties on? I see a bigger problem with peas coming to threads to throw out anger and hurtful words and call others names. No where in this thread has anyone been ignorant or hateful. The majority of us are fed up with how Israel is handling the on going conflict. You can indeed be pro Jewish supporter yet anti war crimes by Israel. Apparently not. Israel can do no wrong. To think otherwise is anti-Semitic.
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Post by scrapmaven on Feb 16, 2024 21:42:57 GMT
We should be giving Ukraine anything they need. Much of it will be spent here in the US anyways, as was already pointed out. Putin has no intention of stopping with Ukraine if he’s allowed, so they should be given anything they need to defend themselves. Israel shouldn’t be given jack shit. I’m so pissed that they’re being allowed to murder innocent people. Spare me any “But, Hamas…” comments. Any money that is being given to that region should be in the form of aid to Palestinian civilians. If anyone wants to call me anti-Semitic because I find what Israel is doing is abhorrent, that’s fine. It wouldn’t be the first time. This was the post, sideways. If you're being called anti semetic, again then what is it that's causing people to accuse you of that? I should have answered you sooner.
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Post by sideways on Feb 16, 2024 21:53:35 GMT
We should be giving Ukraine anything they need. Much of it will be spent here in the US anyways, as was already pointed out. Putin has no intention of stopping with Ukraine if he’s allowed, so they should be given anything they need to defend themselves. Israel shouldn’t be given jack shit. I’m so pissed that they’re being allowed to murder innocent people. Spare me any “But, Hamas…” comments. Any money that is being given to that region should be in the form of aid to Palestinian civilians. If anyone wants to call me anti-Semitic because I find what Israel is doing is abhorrent, that’s fine. It wouldn’t be the first time. This was the post, sideways . If you're being called anti semetic, again then what is it that's causing people to accuse you of that? I should have answered you sooner. I’ve posted more than that. You’ve just chosen to ignore those posts. Yes, Hamas attacked Jewish people. It was abhorrent and disgraceful and HAMAS should be held accountable. Not Palestinian people. How is killing and starving thousands of innocent people holding Hamas accountable? But, yeah…I’m an anti-Semite because I think Israel is going way fucking overboard. They’re not defending themselves anymore. It’s gone way beyond that and they shouldn’t be given any funding to continue to kill innocent people. Don’t tell me they don’t have the intelligence to specifically target Hamas without causing the widespread death and destruction they’ve caused. I’m not buying.
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pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,247
Jun 19, 2022 16:48:04 GMT
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Post by pantsonfire on Feb 16, 2024 22:09:01 GMT
Exactly. Scrapmaven may have deleted that comment because I don't see it now. The idea of a Jewish nation sounds like a good plan, except that there were people already living there, and at the time Jewish people were not the majority. That had to change somehow. That happened in part by pushing the others out and not allowing them to come back to their homes (and subsequently changing laws to give Jews more rights, etc) and bringing more Jews in. I consider that to be ethnic cleansing but am curious what others would call it. ETA that that statement also does not mean that I hate all Jews, or that I support Hamas. I can understand why Palestinians would want to fight back, but Hamas has not been helpful at all for their cause or for Palestinians as a whole. Palestinians have not been innocent in getting things to where they are today. I strongly believe that both sides are going to have to recognize and acknowledge where things have gone wrong--and their roles in it--in order to move forwards. Right now, though, the situation in Gaza is dire and It needs to stop. I mean, for that matter, you could say that about the US-or a lot of other countries. What did settlers here to to the natives that were already living here? Nothing good. I did pn page 2. What the US did to native Americans. What the US did to Japanese Americans during the war. What Hitler did to Jews. What happened to Armenians. What happened to Protestant Irish persons. Or unwed mothers.
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pilcas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,236
Aug 14, 2015 21:47:17 GMT
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Post by pilcas on Feb 16, 2024 22:19:32 GMT
We should be giving Ukraine anything they need. Much of it will be spent here in the US anyways, as was already pointed out. Putin has no intention of stopping with Ukraine if he’s allowed, so they should be given anything they need to defend themselves. Israel shouldn’t be given jack shit. I’m so pissed that they’re being allowed to murder innocent people. Spare me any “But, Hamas…” comments. Any money that is being given to that region should be in the form of aid to Palestinian civilians. If anyone wants to call me anti-Semitic because I find what Israel is doing is abhorrent, that’s fine. It wouldn’t be the first time. This was the post, sideways . If you're being called anti semetic, again then what is it that's causing people to accuse you of that? I should have answered you sooner. Some 29,000 Palestinians have died, civilians including women and children, entire neighborhoods razed to the ground. I find this disturbing as do many others. I would find it just as disturbing if any other country instead of Israel were engaged in this extreme response. Yes, Hamas is a terrorist group, their actions are despicable, they started this whole mess, but the lack of humanity doesn’t seem all that one sided at this point. Perhaps it is time To stop calling people ugly names because it really seems like it’s just a way to shift responsibility from oneself and blame others.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 16, 2024 23:04:01 GMT
I mean, for that matter, you could say that about the US-or a lot of other countries. What did settlers here to to the natives that were already living here? Nothing good. I did pn page 2. What the US did to native Americans. What the US did to Japanese Americans during the war. What Hitler did to Jews. What happened to Armenians. What happened to Protestant Irish persons. Or unwed mothers. Exactly. This applies to so many situations, so many countries. I’ll be honest; I do not understand why the formation of Israel is different. I don’t get it.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 16, 2024 23:08:52 GMT
This was the post, sideways . If you're being called anti semetic, again then what is it that's causing people to accuse you of that? I should have answered you sooner. Some 29,000 Palestinians have died, civilians including women and children, entire neighborhoods razed to the ground. I find this disturbing as do many others. I would find it just as disturbing if any other country instead of Israel were engaged in this extreme response. Yes, Hamas is a terrorist group, their actions are despicable, they started this whole mess, but the lack of humanity doesn’t seem all that one sided at this point. Perhaps it is time To stop calling people ugly names because it really seems like it’s just a way to shift responsibility from oneself and blame others. It is disturbing and tragic. I wish that Netanyahu was not in charge. He reminds me too much of you know who. And I suspect that he figures that if he eliminates Hamas by any means necessary, then he might save his own hide(from an examination of how in the hell Oct. 7th happened.) This is just my opinion, of course.
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Post by lucyg on Feb 17, 2024 1:24:15 GMT
There are a lot of big feelings about this topic and it's good to have an open discussion about it. But if we start attacking people for asking questions and not understanding and then getting things wrong, no one will ever post anything other than what to make for dinner and their medical woes (guilty of both myself!) If someone is questioning the party line, we want them to ask questions, to seek knowledge. And if they get it wrong, there are lots here to give factual answers as to why it's wrong. Yes, we all should be better educated on this topic. When those more knowledgeable than myself post on these threads, I always appreciate it because I've learned something from someone that I respect. Thank you to those who take the time to educate us. I have great respect for your well-informed opinions. But I could not stand by without responding to the claim that Israel was founded on ethnic cleansing.
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Post by Merge on Feb 17, 2024 3:06:34 GMT
I did pn page 2. What the US did to native Americans. What the US did to Japanese Americans during the war. What Hitler did to Jews. What happened to Armenians. What happened to Protestant Irish persons. Or unwed mothers. Exactly. This applies to so many situations, so many countries. I’ll be honest; I do not understand why the formation of Israel is different. I don’t get it. I have to agree. Like with the 1619 project and accurate history regarding native Americans, I think we should be able to acknowledge that past wrongs were done without being accused of hating the current country. But I also realize I’m not as well informed on this issue as I should be, and I have great respect both for the Jewish peas here and my many Jewish friends, students, and co-workers and their families. It’s touchy. My consistent position is that every innocent person should be able to live without fear of being attacked or bombed.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 17, 2024 10:24:54 GMT
Exactly. This applies to so many situations, so many countries. I’ll be honest; I do not understand why the formation of Israel is different. I don’t get it. I have to agree. Like with the 1619 project and accurate history regarding native Americans, I think we should be able to acknowledge that past wrongs were done without being accused of hating the current country. But I also realize I’m not as well informed on this issue as I should be, and I have great respect both for the Jewish peas here and my many Jewish friends, students, and co-workers and their families. It’s touchy. My consistent position is that every innocent person should be able to live without fear of being attacked or bombed. Absolutely. Many times in history, when a new country has been formed, there was unfairness to someone. It disturbs me that I have heard people decrying Israel’s formation, as if it was different from, say, the US. I don’t see a difference.
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