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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 13, 2024 17:26:51 GMT
I have been wondering how the peas (regardless of where you live) feel about continued aid or military help for Israel and Ukraine, especially when compared to comments that I see on social media. I am trying to make this poll as thorough as possible, while, as someone else said when starting a poll, giving anonymity to those who want it. Feel free to explain your answer. ETA that I was trying to make one of the Ukraine answers "We should give Ukraine whatever they need" but messed up. Trying to change that.
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Post by allison1954 on Feb 13, 2024 17:40:03 GMT
I think that we need to spend more on the southern border. I am not against money to Ukraine and Israel but not in the quantities in the proposed bill. It had like 60 B to Ukraine, 17 to Israel and only 20 for our southern border
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amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,447
Jun 27, 2014 12:39:18 GMT
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Post by amom23 on Feb 13, 2024 18:01:34 GMT
I'm not sure how to answer your poll because I feel we should give whatever it takes to Ukraine to help defend themselves against Russia. I'm a mixed bag regarding Israel.
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pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,247
Jun 19, 2022 16:48:04 GMT
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Post by pantsonfire on Feb 13, 2024 18:06:48 GMT
I didn't select as no option fits.
We should greatly reduce the amount of money given to Ukraine.
And we need to step away from the Gaza/Israel/Palestinian conflict.
It has been going on for years. And both sides are to blame. It passes me off that we are funding a country (Israel) to murder innocent lives (Palestinian). But Palestine needs to just stop too.
I am sick of funding these conflict wars that last year's.
We have soooooooo many things that need to be fixed here.
Democrat btw and that is all I'm going to say on this.
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huskergal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,437
Jun 25, 2014 20:22:13 GMT
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Post by huskergal on Feb 13, 2024 18:07:19 GMT
I am in favor of money going to Ukraine. I think it we need to know exactly how it is being spent. I know a great deal is being spent on our weaponry.
I am in favor of very limited money going to Israel until they stop slaughtering civilians.
I am not sure about the border. I think there is some hysteria about what is actually happening. We need a border policy. Republicans won't pass a policy because of Trump.
I didn't vote.
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Post by lisae on Feb 13, 2024 18:08:28 GMT
I'm not sure how to answer your poll because I feel we should give whatever it takes to Ukraine to help defend themselves against Russia. I'm a mixed bag regarding Israel. I'm also a definite yes on Ukraine. Israel? I would need to know more about how the money is being spent and what they already have to defend themselves.
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 13, 2024 18:20:09 GMT
I think that we need to spend more on the southern border. I am not against money to Ukraine and Israel but not in the quantities in the proposed bill. It had like 60 B to Ukraine, 17 to Israel and only 20 for our southern border Curious how you expect that to happen? Republicans last fall insisted on money for the border before they would pass aid for Ukraine and Israel. There was a bipartisan deal on the table that included all 3. Republican Senators rejected the bill and House Republicans refused to even bring the bill to the floor. After insisting on an immigration deal as part of the package, Republicans rejected the deal. Now they're refusing to pass a bill without border security? The Senate passed aid for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan but Republicans will refuse to bring the aid only bill to the floor.
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Post by allison1954 on Feb 13, 2024 18:23:34 GMT
I don’t expect to have an answer. None of the options for so I explained that while I am not against some aid to Ukraine and Israel, I do think we need to spend more at home I totally think the Republicans are pulling total dickhead moves.
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Post by ntsf on Feb 13, 2024 18:31:27 GMT
I believe in more aid to ukraine as long as they need it.. and to taiwan. I consider putin to be the new hitler.. so any money we spend to defeat him is worth it. I think we need to put a pause to money to israel.. I don't think that will happen.. but it seems the only way to get their attention to start cooperating on movement to stop slaughtering people.
I think the border is a separate deal and there are so many myths and untruths surrounding it that I think we need to start funding small steps.. not a massive bill. do things that work.. like helping in the countries people are coming from. make legal paths available, as they are now mostly out of reach of ordinary people. btw, I saw one article recently that the statistics are that most fentanyl and other drugs are brought into the us by us citizens at regular entry points. the republicans are not interested in solutions.. they are interested in screaming their lies.
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Feb 13, 2024 18:36:05 GMT
To be perfectly honest, I’m of two minds on Ukraine funding. I recognize the importance of defeating Putin because the danger also exists for our NATO allies at the border. We cannot allow Putin to succeed. On the other hand, we seem to have no idea how much longer this war will go on. I can understand how some people might ask how long are we to support this and how many more billions will we spend on this? I think those are legitimate questions.
Re Israel, I’m not against sending funds, but if they’re to be used to kill more Palestinian civilians and create more illegal settlements in the West Bank, then my answer is no. I just think we cannot continuously send billions without imposing some conditions that Israel has to abide by.
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 13, 2024 18:51:26 GMT
Here's why I think we need to send money to Ukraine
1. Aid for Ukraine sends a clear message to Putin that he can't just take over a sovereign country. If Putin is emboldened and attacks a NATO ally, the conflict could dramatically escalate. Sending money now could help prevent a future conflict
2. The money is a drop in the bucket compared to the overall federal budget
3. Sending money with strengthen the European coalition. Without it, the European alliance could weaken
4. With Ukraine being a major exporter of grain, global food security has been threatened by the war
That doesn't mean that aid should be unlimited, there should be some kind of exit strategy. The war has already lasted longer than expected, we need to seriously and realistically evaluate how long it might continue
Israel is complicated and I don't know what the right answer is. I support giving aid to Israel with conditions that will protect innocent people in Gaza.
Regrettably, as far as immigration and the southern border, nothing will happen with the Republicans in charge of the House. Trump doesn't want to solve anything, he wants to campaign on it. A sign of how the Republicans are not serious, they're trying to impeach Secretary Mayorkas again.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 13, 2024 18:56:10 GMT
One thing that I read (I think in a comment from Adam kinzinger) is that the money for Ukraine isn’t just cash. It is putting a dollar amount on the weapons and other items that we are giving them. Most of which are older and being phased out, and that are/were made in the US. So the $$ that we see are a little misleading. I also think that there is a benefit to us in helping Ukraine. Someone on tv said recently that it was the best defense strategy we have had in a long time, and I agree with that.
As for Israel, I think they should have been held accountable for the way they treated Palestinians decades ago. The whole idea of Israel as a Jewish nation state was based on the idea of ethnic cleansing and that hasn’t gone well. At times I want us to just cut them off completely, but I know that gives the other countries in the region license to attack. But with the current Israeli government and seeing Israelis blocking food and other aid from going to Gaza, I am getting more pissed. I’m not happy that we are supporting them and getting the blame for their actions. Netanyahu is going to take Israel down and the US with him when Trump wins due to biden’s support for Israel. I would be ok with giving them what they need for the iron dome but nothing more.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 13, 2024 19:02:18 GMT
I'm not sure how to answer your poll because I feel we should give whatever it takes to Ukraine to help defend themselves against Russia. I'm a mixed bag regarding Israel. I thought I had two different options for Ukraine but once I hit finish I realized they both said the same thing. If someone knows how to edit the poll let me know.
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Post by Bridget in MD on Feb 13, 2024 19:03:42 GMT
I didn't select as no option fits. We should greatly reduce the amount of money given to Ukraine. And we need to step away from the Gaza/Israel/Palestinian conflict. It has been going on for years. And both sides are to blame. It passes me off that we are funding a country (Israel) to murder innocent lives (Palestinian). But Palestine needs to just stop too. I am sick of funding these conflict wars that last year's. We have soooooooo many things that need to be fixed here.
Democrat btw and that is all I'm going to say on this. A part of me feels we need to continue to help Ukraine bc Russia won't stop if they succeed in overtaking them. I would like to see what other countries do as well. Israel and Palestine - I've heard basically Israel "owns" our politicians, which is why we can't just stop funding, but I can't remember and am too lazy to go look up (I am pretty sure it was a TIkTok about a book on the situation). I agree that both are not innocent, but feel like if you show any support to Palestine, you are called anti-Semetic, or racist.
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Post by katlaw on Feb 13, 2024 19:06:03 GMT
A large portion of the money that the US promises to Ukraine is used to send weapons that are US made. So US factories and workers are benefiting from the aid in terms of jobs which give people money which moves into the US economy when people spend their paycheque on goods in the US. It is also used to station US forces in strategic areas to protect NATO borders. It is not sending a pile of money to Ukraine. Putin has made it very clear he intends to take back countries that became independent with the fall of the USSR. Should Russia completely take over Ukraine no one believes he will stop there. The NATO countries in the surrounding area are all vulnerable and should Russia invade any of them we are all at war. Refusing to provide aid to Ukraine is a watershed moment in US history and the Republicans who are blocking aid and saying it is because there is no southern border bill are giving Russia a win that could have a lasting impact on the world.
Billions of US taxpayer dollars are invested in providing secure borders. U.S. Customs and Border Protection is the largest law enforcement agency in the US, larger than the FBI, US Marshals, DEA, ATF and the Secret Service combined. A border wall and more border patrol agents are just political talking points because when it really comes down to it you have a number of politicians who are blocking changes.
Providing aid to Ukraine does not take away from improving southern border security. Improving southern border security does not take away from resources that could be used to aid Ukraine. The two issues are not tied together. You can have both.
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Post by Bridget in MD on Feb 13, 2024 19:07:14 GMT
I'm not sure how to answer your poll because I feel we should give whatever it takes to Ukraine to help defend themselves against Russia. I'm a mixed bag regarding Israel. I thought I had two different options for Ukraine but once I hit finish I realized they both said the same thing. If someone knows how to edit the poll let me know. I was going to say, it seemed the 2 Ukraine options said the same thing, so I wasn't sure...
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Post by Merge on Feb 13, 2024 19:09:32 GMT
I agree with what most others have said -
We need to continue sending money to Ukraine. I don't know for how long, but Putin can't be allowed to win.
Additional aid for Israel needs to be dependent on an agreement to leave Palestinian civilians in peace.
We need more funding for our southern border, AND the only enforcement presence there should be federal. Funding should cover the additional needed both to house and process asylum seekers and give them their hearings in a timely manner. That funding should be contingent on Greg Abbott ending the campaign stunt debacle that is Operation Lone Star.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 13, 2024 19:12:19 GMT
Another thing that I think should be considered with Ukraine is, are we giving them wha they need in order to WIN the war? Or just enough for them to fight the war? That goes for what the whole world has given. The EU hasn’t followed through with what they said they would give them, either.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 13, 2024 19:13:49 GMT
I didn't select as no option fits. We should greatly reduce the amount of money given to Ukraine. And we need to step away from the Gaza/Israel/Palestinian conflict. It has been going on for years. And both sides are to blame. It passes me off that we are funding a country (Israel) to murder innocent lives (Palestinian). But Palestine needs to just stop too. I am sick of funding these conflict wars that last year's. We have soooooooo many things that need to be fixed here.
Democrat btw and that is all I'm going to say on this. A part of me feels we need to continue to help Ukraine bc Russia won't stop if they succeed in overtaking them. I would like to see what other countries do as well. Israel and Palestine - I've heard basically Israel "owns" our politicians, which is why we can't just stop funding, but I can't remember and am too lazy to go look up (I am pretty sure it was a TIkTok about a book on the situation). I agree that both are not innocent, but feel like if you show any support to Palestine, you are called anti-Semetic, or racist. I have also seen similar comments on social media but don’t know how much credibility to give them. That is partly why I started this poll. On social media there are a lot of trolls and people from varying countries that make comments that are often not true. If anyone here has more info on these statements that would be great.
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pilcas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,236
Aug 14, 2015 21:47:17 GMT
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Post by pilcas on Feb 13, 2024 19:21:20 GMT
We need to continue sending military aid to Ukraine. If you pay attention to what Putin has been saying, Ukraine was only the first on his list, and he is a firm believer in hybrid war. there is a reason why Poland has the strongest army in Europe. Israel, I’m quite iffy about. I’m not seeing them quite as the victim as they portray themselves. Both sides brought themselves to the point there are in.
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pilcas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,236
Aug 14, 2015 21:47:17 GMT
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Post by pilcas on Feb 13, 2024 19:25:34 GMT
Another thing that I think should be considered with Ukraine is, are we giving them wha they need in order to WIN the war? Or just enough for them to fight the war? That goes for what the whole world has given. The EU hasn’t followed through with what they said they would give them, either. No, I don’t think we have given them what they need to win the war, the fear of escalation has kept us from doing all we can, plus no doubt internal issues have also had something to do with that.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 13, 2024 19:26:19 GMT
I thought I had two different options for Ukraine but once I hit finish I realized they both said the same thing. If someone knows how to edit the poll let me know. I was going to say, it seemed the 2 Ukraine options said the same thing, so I wasn't sure... I apparently am terrible at creating polls because I also thought I made it so you could choose two options (so as to choose one for Ukraine and one for Israel).
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Post by **GypsyGirl** on Feb 13, 2024 19:26:53 GMT
We need more funding for our southern border, AND the only enforcement presence there should be federal. Funding should cover the additional needed both to house and process asylum seekers and give them their hearings in a timely manner. That funding should be contingent on Greg Abbott ending the campaign stunt debacle that is Operation Lone Star. I am also strongly in favor of a worker visa permit of some type for those pouring across the border. And while we are at it, can we please have some term limits on the position of Governor of Texas???
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lizacreates
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,862
Aug 29, 2015 2:39:19 GMT
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Post by lizacreates on Feb 13, 2024 19:30:29 GMT
Another thing that I think should be considered with Ukraine is, are we giving them wha they need in order to WIN the war? Or just enough for them to fight the war? That goes for what the whole world has given. The EU hasn’t followed through with what they said they would give them, either. Probably because of war fatigue. The sentiment is growing here in the US as well. I know that in Europe, citizens are grappling with high costs of living and are reasonably questioning why funds that could help at home are being spent elsewhere. And I think it’s also the fact that we’re (by we, I mean the US and EU) not seeing signs of progress. I mean, let’s be honest…there’s a deadlock in Ukraine. Neither side is really advancing to a degree where the geopolitical experts can predict what’s to come. Opinions are all over the place. All it is right now is a war of attrition. Thus, countries’ commitment (which was spectacularly high in the beginning) is waning.
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Post by monklady123 on Feb 13, 2024 19:38:28 GMT
I couldn't vote because I would need more than one answer and your poll wasn't set up to accept more than one.
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Post by myshelly on Feb 13, 2024 20:34:40 GMT
This poll is flawed just as badly as morecowbell’s
Why combine Ukraine and Israel into one poll? How is anyone supposed to answer how they feel about two topics when you can only choose one answer?
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Post by Merge on Feb 13, 2024 20:37:54 GMT
We need more funding for our southern border, AND the only enforcement presence there should be federal. Funding should cover the additional needed both to house and process asylum seekers and give them their hearings in a timely manner. That funding should be contingent on Greg Abbott ending the campaign stunt debacle that is Operation Lone Star. I am also strongly in favor of a worker visa permit of some type for those pouring across the border. And while we are at it, can we please have some term limits on the position of Governor of Texas??? I am pleased that you agree about the border and issuing work permits, because I think your politics are a bit more conservative than mine. 🥰 Yes to term limits and let’s end partisan gerrymandering while we’re at it, shall we?
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 13, 2024 20:49:59 GMT
This poll is flawed just as badly as morecowbell’s Why combine Ukraine and Israel into one poll? How is anyone supposed to answer how they feel about two topics when you can only choose one answer? Did you read my responses about my intentions with the poll vs how it ended up? Do you have any helpful ideas on how to change the poll now because I don’t see how it can be edited.
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Post by **GypsyGirl** on Feb 13, 2024 20:52:58 GMT
I am pleased that you agree about the border and issuing work permits, because I think your politics are a bit more conservative than mine. 🥰 Yes to term limits and let’s end partisan gerrymandering while we’re at it, shall we? I'm more middle of the road in most things in life including politics, rather like a Switzerland. However, on certain topics I can be downright far left liberal! To the ending partisan gerrymandering, I'll add a hearty AMEN! And while I am asking for term limits, can we please have some on Congress members???
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cjinmo
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Aug 1, 2022 18:32:57 GMT
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Post by cjinmo on Feb 13, 2024 20:56:55 GMT
I think it is imperative that we continue to help Ukraine in order to prevent Russia from attacking our NATO allies and then be forced to become really involved in a war against Russia. I am ready to stop supporting Israel as the are committing war crimes against Palestine. I feel both parties are equally responsible.
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