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Post by jeremysgirl on Apr 7, 2024 14:36:54 GMT
Wow! Ok Merge I don't dye my hair, I only wear makeup on special occasions, I don't dress in the latest fashions because I try very hard to shop ethically and sustainably which involves a lot of second hand shopping, and I have a grandchild. I'm 48 years old. And you just called me old. By busy definition I'll never be old unless I get Alzheimer's because feeding my brain and being open to change is something I'm constantly doing and I don't see my entire personality changing unless I completely lose my faculties. So which is it? Am I old? Or am I young? This whole thread screams...not me, not me, not me! |
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Post by allison1954 on Apr 7, 2024 14:38:00 GMT
Why do people get so hung up on being old? Why is it so hard to admit that you (general) are old? Why can't it be an objective measure? Like 65 is retirement age so that is old? I just don't even understand people's sensitivity to this. Why are people hung up on being called overweight? Why can't that also be an objective measure? To me, it is because the older or infirm physically are not " seen" or are treated as lesser than. When you become an older woman ( 70+) . it becomes generally apparent that you are invisible. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Apr 7, 2024 14:41:07 GMT
Why do people get so hung up on being old? Why is it so hard to admit that you (general) are old? Why can't it be an objective measure? Like 65 is retirement age so that is old? I just don't even understand people's sensitivity to this. Why are people hung up on being called overweight? Why can't that also be an objective measure? To me, it is because the older or infirm physically are not " seen" or are treated as lesser than. When you become an older woman ( 70+) . it becomes generally apparent that you are invisible. I'm an overweight person. Fat actually. I am well beyond overweight. And I don't have a problem with you calling me that either. It is an objective measure. You can't see the irony that many of you are no longer seeing people because you deem them whatever you call "old?" |
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Post by smasonnc on Apr 7, 2024 14:43:59 GMT
I live in Florida. So does every elderly person in the country, or so it seems. I see a wide spectrum of what I would call "elderly." The grocery store looks like "The Night of the Living Dead." Sometimes I'm shocked to find that someone who seems "old" is younger than I am. Other times, I'm amazed at how active and engaged older people are. I do find as I've gotten older, I have acquired the superpower of invisibility. I could rob a bank and nobody would be able to identify me except as "an elderly woman." Fine. Getting old is a privilege denied to many. I think definitely 85+. 80-84 is a grey area to me. I was reading an article about an 80 year who was traveling alone and got ill (she had a stroke). Many comments said 80 was too old to travel alone, 80 is too fragile, 80 should give up traveling, etc. Health willing, I hope to still be traveling in my 80’s. I think traveling alone at any age is risky. And strokes and heart issues happen to all ages. And then, l’ll read an article about an elderly man who was robbed. The elderly man was 65. WTH? 65 is not elderly. Grey area? Quite literally.  I hear people 65 being referred to as "elderly" all the time. I'm three years older than my sister but she has smoked, has health problems, and has let her hair go white. She's had a much harder life than mine. She could be my mom. That said, I am starting to have some physical issues that are giving me a glimpse of what is to come. |
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Post by Merge on Apr 7, 2024 15:23:37 GMT
So much this. My mom had a gray perm and a grandchild on the way at 50. I'm 51 and have no such thing going on. My sister is 46 this year and when people see us together, even five or ten years ago, they think she is the older sister. She has gone completely gray, dresses in frumpy clothes, and most definitely has allowed her world to become very small and closed off from new ideas. I have no problem with being the age I am and am happy to lean into the "crone" years of womanhood. I tend to think we are most powerful at an older age. I am certainly more authentically myself than I've ever been before, and I give no fucks about what anyone thinks of me. That's powerful. It allows me to advocate better on behalf of others, too. Continuing to be active, mentally and physically, will hopefully allow that to continue for many years. Interestingly enough, I don't see that as old. I see that as feeling comfortable with oneself and not giving a damn. I started to go grey early 40s. I can not color my hair due to allergies. But my grey doesn't make me old. It's just hair. Heck 30 yr Olds are getting grey coloring lol I don't dress in latest fashion. Not my thing. I found my style and enjoy it. Tee shirts and shorts or jeans and tee or sweater. Doesn't make me old. Again, there are 20 yr Olds I know who dress "frumpy." Yeah, you’re right - it’s not really about the gray hair. It’s more about the smallness of mind or low self esteem some allow to come with it. But at least with some women, including my mother for sure, there is a belief that they are not worthy of the effort and expense of maintaining their hair color if they wanted to. My mom used to say that spending any money or effort on her appearance was like putting lipstick on a pig. I find that sad. The woman who pet sits for us, by contrast, is all gray and wears ratty, shapeless clothes. But she is simply too caught up in caring for animals and humans to make time for appearances. She’s a voracious reader and consumer of information and is very broadminded. So I don’t see her the same way. |
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Post by Merge on Apr 7, 2024 15:27:35 GMT
I wanted to say also that I think the reason we’re so afraid of being called old is that as women, we’ve internalized the idea that our value lies only in our sexual attractiveness and fertility.
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Post by scrapmaven on Apr 7, 2024 15:37:16 GMT
My hair has a tiny bit of gray, but really you can't tell unless you look carefully. I am disabled and have been since my 40's. So, I often use assistive devices when I'm out and about and I have a limp. At the airport last week people were so helpful w/my walker and letting me sit. In my mind I'm quite youthful. Most people don't know that I'm in my 60s, probably because of my hair and my skin. As teens we weren't allowed to wear makeup and that is paying off now. Also, I refuse to be old when I am still so young on the inside.
I feel like I'm in my 40's, but I know that I'm in my 60's. I think "old" is more of a mental state. My mil was young until she was 89. Then she was old. If we're fortunate enough to grow old we'll physically decline and some of us will mentally decline. Though that's not true for all old people. I know someone who rode her bike to the tennis court every day until she was almost 90. You're as old as you feel and as young as you think. |
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Post by crazy4scraps on Apr 7, 2024 15:44:42 GMT
Why do people get so hung up on being old? Why is it so hard to admit that you (general) are old? Why can't it be an objective measure? Like 65 is retirement age so that is old? I just don't even understand people's sensitivity to this. To me, “old” is not about the actual age. I’m 50 and I remember my mom at 50 and she was FAR older than me at the same age. Old, to me, is more of a mindset where your world gets smaller and less interesting, new experiences aren’t fun or desirable anymore, you are set in your ways and not still learning. One could become old at 40 or at 95. I’m fine with my age and am not worried about that number getting bigger. But I hope I’m not “old” for decades. When my mom was 50, she broke her wrist roller skating on the sidewalk outside our house so she was definitely not old, LOL.  In fact, when I turned 21 my mom took me to Las Vegas for my birthday and the woman ran circles around me. She was 61! I have pictures of my grandma (her mom) when she was in her mid 60’s and you would have thought that she was much, much older. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Apr 7, 2024 15:45:59 GMT
I wanted to say also that I think the reason we’re so afraid of being called old is that as women, we’ve internalized the idea that our value lies only in our sexual attractiveness and fertility. You are 110% right. I agree wholeheartedly. So why can't we stop doing it to one another and ourselves? Every time we discuss things like this it makes me sad. Because I hold this board and most of you in very high regard and I have not a clue what most of you look like or how old you actually are. |
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Post by **GypsyGirl** on Apr 7, 2024 15:52:14 GMT
To me, “old” is not about the actual age. I’m 50 and I remember my mom at 50 and she was FAR older than me at the same age. Old, to me, is more of a mindset where your world gets smaller and less interesting, new experiences aren’t fun or desirable anymore, you are set in your ways and not still learning. One could become old at 40 or at 95. I’m fine with my age and am not worried about that number getting bigger. But I hope I’m not “old” for decades. Well said. Although I am 67, my mindset is more of someone who is 50. I truly feel that much younger and am taken aback when I have to actually give my age! I don't mind being in my 60's and enjoy some of the things that have come with age - being more confident, able to speak my mind more, having total control of my time (retired) and being able to roll with what life throws me much more easily. There are no grandchildren at this point and I honestly won't be surprised if I never have any. And I am totally fine with that. |
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Post by quinlove on Apr 7, 2024 16:01:10 GMT
Why do people get so hung up on being old? I’m fine with my age and am not worried about that number getting bigger. But I hope I’m not “old” for decades. Well, actually, I AM worried about that number getting bigger. Please - let my number get bigger. Dear God, please let my age get old and then a little bit more old. I’m good with it, really I am. No complaining here. thank you 🙏 |
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,941
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Apr 7, 2024 16:10:39 GMT
Why do people get so hung up on being old? Why is it so hard to admit that you (general) are old? Why can't it be an objective measure? Like 65 is retirement age so that is old? I just don't even understand people's sensitivity to this. because there's so much negativity that is associated with being "old": you're closer to death; you hold less financial weight in our society so you're irrelevant in many markets; you can't procreate so you're considered less attractive; people want to take away your ability to drive, your capacity to make decisions about your home, your health... Aging in American society is difficult so putting it off on "10 years older than me" makes total sense to me. |
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Post by katlady on Apr 7, 2024 16:17:01 GMT
Why do people get so hung up on being old? Why is it so hard to admit that you (general) are old? Why can't it be an objective measure? Like 65 is retirement age so that is old? I just don't even understand people's sensitivity to this. I was thinking about this and the word “old”. It does have negative meanings when applied to people. It can mean useless, worn out, something to be discarded, etc. So I am more hung up about the word than actual age. I rather be called a senior citizen than called old. Now I do joke occasionally about being old, especially at the gym where SO and I are a couple of the oldest members. But in general our society does look down at “old” people as disposable and invisible, just my opinion. ETA - I should have just read peabay’s post first because I agree with her. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Apr 7, 2024 16:20:03 GMT
I'm not disagreeing with either of the comments above. But we are society. Change begins with you/your attitude.
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Post by Zee on Apr 7, 2024 16:23:54 GMT
I wanted to say also that I think the reason we’re so afraid of being called old is that as women, we’ve internalized the idea that our value lies only in our sexual attractiveness and fertility. You are 110% right. I agree wholeheartedly. So why can't we stop doing it to one another and ourselves? Every time we discuss things like this it makes me sad. Because I hold this board and most of you in very high regard and I have not a clue what most of you look like or how old you actually are. Or, to take that a step further, it's not the "being attractive" anymore, it's the idea of being useless or worthless. I don't think I'm going out on a limb when I say that most of the women here seem to be totally ok with no longer being considered sexually attractive or fertile, but most of us want to feel like we still have some worth beyond being a sex object or a mommy. I personally will be the first to admit that I'm vain and getting older and don't want to become a withered dumpy gray old lady at the age of 52. I don't care about being "sexy" but I do want to look good for my age, meaning healthy and active and as attractive as still possible. Things still firm. Face made up, hair shiny. Can get things done. Runs circles around lots of people still. Not hiding my age, but not giving in to it, either. I don't expect young people to call me young but they can admire that I'm still putting in the work and running the show. My grandma is my role model. She had 7 kids and umpteen grandkids but was never just about being one thing. She had a business and acted and wrote books and articles and painted and was active for women's rights and was somehow still active in the church, did the peace march, took her own name back in both divorces, volunteered, was prominent in the local arts scene, didn't need no man. And she always had her face and hair done and dressed smart and kept herself very active. |
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scrappinmama
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,130
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Apr 7, 2024 16:25:19 GMT
It's all subjective. Yesterday my soon to be 94 year old mom said my 88 year old uncle was too young to die.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,941
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Apr 7, 2024 16:27:49 GMT
I'm not disagreeing with either of the comments above. But we are society. Change begins with you/your attitude. I wish that was true. Change begins with Madison Avenue deciding we're a worthwhile market; it begins with the dismantling of the patriarchy that makes women over the age of 50 (remember Don Lemon and his recent comments?) invisible and irrelevant. Me saying "I'm 59 and I don't care" doesn't matter. Sadly, it really doesn't. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Apr 7, 2024 16:33:55 GMT
Zee said: it's the idea of being useless or worthless. I'm not disagreeing with this assessment driving this. But really does a face full of makeup and a lack of gray hair equal this for you? Because maybe that's where the disconnect is for me during these discussions. These are just not things I equate at all with anyone's use or worth. And I'm not putting down anyone's wanting to put on makeup, I don't think it hurts anyone and I do from time to time too. But I just feel like it was such a focus in your post after what was a very intriguing (and I agree with) lead.
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Apr 7, 2024 16:38:24 GMT
To me, “old” is not about the actual age. I’m 50 and I remember my mom at 50 and she was FAR older than me at the same age. Old, to me, is more of a mindset where your world gets smaller and less interesting, new experiences aren’t fun or desirable anymore, you are set in your ways and not still learning. One could become old at 40 or at 95. I’m fine with my age and am not worried about that number getting bigger. But I hope I’m not “old” for decades. You're redefining it. Old means having lived a long time. That's it. What you're describing is someone failing to evolve. I could argue that those who are dying their hair to cover up gray are failing to evolve. This is the whole problem I'm talking about. People are taking an objective measure and making it mean something about themselves based on their own personal biases. It seems very fear-based to me. Not to mention that many people use it to judge others. I think there are lots of opinions on this- and perspective is different for all of us. I agree with busy - she said exactly the way I feel, only better than I had verbally thought through it. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Apr 7, 2024 16:39:39 GMT
I'm not disagreeing with either of the comments above. But we are society. Change begins with you/your attitude. I wish that was true. Change begins with Madison Avenue deciding we're a worthwhile market; it begins with the dismantling of the patriarchy that makes women over the age of 50 (remember Don Lemon and his recent comments?) invisible and irrelevant. Me saying "I'm 59 and I don't care" doesn't matter. Sadly, it really doesn't. It does though. Because that's you giving a hand up to the women around you at the very least. And it is only by mass adoption of individual attitudes that change group norms. |
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Post by Zee on Apr 7, 2024 16:51:56 GMT
Zee said: it's the idea of being useless or worthless. I'm not disagreeing with this assessment driving this. But really does a face full of makeup and a lack of gray hair equal this for you? Because maybe that's where the disconnect is for me during these discussions. These are just not things I equate at all with anyone's use or worth. And I'm not putting down anyone's wanting to put on makeup, I don't think it hurts anyone and I do from time to time too. But I just feel like it was such a focus in your post after what was a very intriguing (and I agree with) lead. I'm just addressing that we don't all do those things to be "sexy" or miss our fertility. We might want to be seen as "put together", still vibrant and active, and therefore, still "useful" in our own eyes. Can you be useful without trying to remain "attractive"? Absolutely! But I'm only addressing some possible reasons WHY some women might want to bother when others think it's just about missing being a sex object. For me anyway, it's not that. But I admit that I'm too vain to throw in the towel just yet. |
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Post by Linda on Apr 7, 2024 16:53:04 GMT
I think this has been an interesting discussion and I agree with much of what jeremysgirl said. If we (individually or as a society) don't like how old is perceived - then we need to push back against that but pushing the age that "old" is back a decade and then another decade isn't the way to do it. We need to embrace the different stages of life and acknowledge that we have value at ALL ages. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Apr 7, 2024 16:54:15 GMT
Zee said: it's the idea of being useless or worthless. I'm not disagreeing with this assessment driving this. But really does a face full of makeup and a lack of gray hair equal this for you? Because maybe that's where the disconnect is for me during these discussions. These are just not things I equate at all with anyone's use or worth. And I'm not putting down anyone's wanting to put on makeup, I don't think it hurts anyone and I do from time to time too. But I just feel like it was such a focus in your post after what was a very intriguing (and I agree with) lead. I'm just addressing that we don't all do those things to be "sexy" or miss our fertility. We might want to be seen as "put together", still vibrant and active, and therefore, still "useful" in our own eyes. Can you be useful without trying to remain "attractive"? Absolutely! But I'm only addressing some possible reasons WHY some women might want to bother when others think it's just about missing being a sex object. For me anyway, it's not that. But I admit that I'm too vain to throw in the towel just yet. At least you're honest. 😉😘 (And there is absolutely nothing wrong with you taking care of yourself however you want.) |
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Post by Zee on Apr 7, 2024 16:59:37 GMT
I'm just addressing that we don't all do those things to be "sexy" or miss our fertility. We might want to be seen as "put together", still vibrant and active, and therefore, still "useful" in our own eyes. Can you be useful without trying to remain "attractive"? Absolutely! But I'm only addressing some possible reasons WHY some women might want to bother when others think it's just about missing being a sex object. For me anyway, it's not that. But I admit that I'm too vain to throw in the towel just yet. At least you're honest. 😉😘 (And there is absolutely nothing wrong with you taking care of yourself however you want.) Totally honest about that. Lol. But I wanted to stress that it's not about trying to attract sex partners or missing being fertile (I had my tubes tied when I was 26, really don't miss being fertile at all, heh). I do want to be viewed as an attractive put-together lady. Not a raving beauty, perhaps a little weathered, but still putting in the effort to look her best (and by extension, do her best--right or wrong, looking the part is half the battle). |
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Post by lisae on Apr 7, 2024 17:04:29 GMT
"Old" is getting older every year. Like most children, I thought my teachers were old and most were probably in their 40's at most. For most of my life I would have said 70's but now 80's for sure and I may have to revise that to late 80's.
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Apr 7, 2024 17:06:01 GMT
I'm not disagreeing with either of the comments above. But we are society. Change begins with you/your attitude. I wish that was true. Change begins with Madison Avenue deciding we're a worthwhile market; it begins with the dismantling of the patriarchy that makes women over the age of 50 (remember Don Lemon and his recent comments?) invisible and irrelevant. Me saying "I'm 59 and I don't care" doesn't matter. Sadly, it really doesn't. I already gave my opinion on what I think is “old” but I just have to comment… (Mindset not a number, and I waded in when it wasn’t about women- it was about old people.) Anyway- I had to look up why I care what Madison Avenue thinks of me, lol lol and honestly that couldn’t be less meaningful to me. And Don Lemon? Even more irrelevant. I asked both my son and daughter if they knew who he is, neither did. Maybe that’s the definition of old. Holding on to old versions of what’s important? Maybe for my grandmother those things would have mattered. For me, they don’t. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Apr 7, 2024 17:06:32 GMT
At least you're honest. 😉😘 (And there is absolutely nothing wrong with you taking care of yourself however you want.) Totally honest about that. Lol. But I wanted to stress that it's not about trying to attract sex partners or missing being fertile (I had my tubes tied when I was 26, really don't miss being fertile at all, heh). I do want to be viewed as an attractive put-together lady. Not a raving beauty, perhaps a little weathered, but still putting in the effort to look her best (and by extension, do her best--right or wrong, looking the part is half the battle). Yeah I get that. I think like peabay said maybe clearer that it's wrapped up in patriarchy. God knows I'm all aboard the train to take down patriarchy. 😂 ETA: I went back and I don't think it was peabay. But someone said the P-word and that's the button I want to press. 😉 |
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Post by lisae on Apr 7, 2024 17:10:34 GMT
Wow! Ok Merge I don't dye my hair, I only wear makeup on special occasions, I don't dress in the latest fashions because I try very hard to shop ethically and sustainably which involves a lot of second hand shopping, and I have a grandchild. I'm 48 years old. And you just called me old. I bought all new makeup about 3 years ago and now I'm wearing far less of it. Too much makeup especially concealer was making me look older not younger. However, I do color my hair. I think minimizing the gray is the single biggest thing you can do to keep from looking old. I worked with a woman who had gone gray very young due to a medical condition. She had beautiful gray hair and was a beautiful woman. She did, I hate to say it, always look older though than she was at least at first glance. If you studied her face, you could see it was a lot younger. Hair is the first thing you notice and that first impression defines the age people assign you. |
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pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,310 
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Post by pantsonfire on Apr 7, 2024 17:10:37 GMT
Totally honest about that. Lol. But I wanted to stress that it's not about trying to attract sex partners or missing being fertile (I had my tubes tied when I was 26, really don't miss being fertile at all, heh). I do want to be viewed as an attractive put-together lady. Not a raving beauty, perhaps a little weathered, but still putting in the effort to look her best (and by extension, do her best--right or wrong, looking the part is half the battle). Yeah I get that. I think like peabay said maybe clearer that it's wrapped up in patriarchy. God knows I'm all aboard the train to take down patriarchy. 😂 ETA: I went back and I don't think it was peabay. But someone said the P-word and that's the button I want to press. 😉 Choo Choo here comes the train. All abord! |
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Post by gar on Apr 7, 2024 17:11:35 GMT
We are very visual societies and while we may want to prove we’re still of value in ways other than just whether are we grey or not, wearing make up or not, often we need to get past that initial barrier and those instant judgements to be able to prove it in all the other ways…and our appearance may do that for us.
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In fact, when I turned 21 my mom took me to Las Vegas for my birthday and the woman ran circles around me. She was 61! I have pictures of my grandma (her mom) when she was in her mid 60’s and you would have thought that she was much, much older. 
