TankTop
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Jun 28, 2014 1:52:46 GMT
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Post by TankTop on May 31, 2024 14:31:44 GMT
My advice… run.
If she is unwilling to do that she needs to set her own firm boundaries.
Example: If your mom is at the meeting I will excuse myself.
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Post by kristi521 on May 31, 2024 14:48:40 GMT
Been there, done that. Had I known at the time the impact his mom's behaviour had on my husband growing up, I never would have married him. So many unresolved issues and lots of trauma. We split up six years ago, were together 18 years and it never got better. She was always a drama queen and it was exhausting. Imagine how traumatic your daughter's boyfriend's childhood must have been with such a dramatic mother. Your daughter needs to think long and hard if she is willing to deal with this in the long run. It gets exhausting quickly and it can take years for her to see/notice how his mother's behaviour has impacted his way of seing life and dealing with things. I could go on and on and on, but maybe your daughter could see a therapist to help her figure out the next steps? This!!!! There have been some serious issues caused in our marriage because of a narcissistic father in law (and step mom) that have only increased over time. |
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SweetieBsMom
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Post by SweetieBsMom on May 31, 2024 14:51:01 GMT
I agree with the Peas consensus. Like everyone is in agreement  It's on him to set boundaries with his mom not your daughter. If he doesn't do it, your daughter can try but I doubt they will be respected by the mom. This is a hill I would die on. The way the mother is acting now is a HUGE red flag. If she's this bad now, it's only going to get worse. As someone suggested, read the Reddit MIL forum. The stories are NUTS. |
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Post by dnkmmw on May 31, 2024 14:55:11 GMT
Backstory... DD (24) has been dating said BF (27) for a little over a year now. His mother is horrible and is always asserting herself into their relationship. She's passive aggressive, overbearing, and sometimes downright aggressive. She thinks she knows everything, has to be the best at everything, and is just toxic. She talks shit about my DD to her son all the time. It has reached a fever pitch, and my DD doesn't know what to do. She needs advice from the wise peas! The current situation is that he is trying to move out from his mother's house and have his own house built. (DD lives alone in a very small one-bedroom apartment) DD and BF want to get married at some point in the future (a year or so from now). DD and BF are designing this house together with the intention of this being their home after they get married. DD and BF have a builder's meeting next week and his mother wants to come. BF even had the nerve to ask my DD if that would be okay because his mother is relentlessly hounding him with questions and her opinions. Obviously, it is not okay with DD. The mother will take over the meeting as she bulldozes every conversation. His mother does not want him to have anything nicer than what she has and is jealous. DD thinks that she is jealous that her son is creating a life that she wishes she could have and apparently doesn't want him to move out. BF has tried to set boundaries several times and his mom cries and backs off for about a day and then the cycle continues. He has a lot on his plate with working and going to school full time. He is very stressed out and DD feels bad that he is stuck in the middle between a "war" with DD and his mom. My DD doesn't know how much more of this she can take. She loves him and doesn't want to break up. The have zero issues in their relationship except for his mom. For those of you that have monsters for mother in laws what would you tell your younger self? If you have read all this...thank you. I have a very difficult mother-in-law. She's been in my life over 30 years. She's different though, she was never as in-your-face as it sounds like your DD is experiencing. She likes to create panic and drama. She does also want to have her way and will push for that. Looking back, I see that my husband didn't always stand up for me, but it was much more minor things, and he probably didn't see them as a big deal. Now, he would absolutely back me up and a lot of that is because of things she's done in the more recent past. What I would tell my younger self is that I shouldn't trust her and give myself permission to back away from his parents. We are currently estranged having no contact for nearly 3 years, but I could have avoided a lot of damage had we backed away sooner. I fear for your daughter. These are big issues and, as others have mentioned, if he won't back her now, it will only get worse. Finally, you mentioned that she feels like he's "in the middle" I feel as though that's the wrong perspective. Unless he wants his mom there, which is different problem, he should be able to tell his mother these things as much for his own well-being as for your daughter's. |
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Post by Lexica on May 31, 2024 15:24:43 GMT
I agree, she has a boyfriend problem because he cannot or will not stand up to his mother. I would recommend she have a serious talk with him about how her (the mother’s) relationship with him is not healthy. I think the couple should go to counseling for him to get another opinion and to learn how to handle his mother. You can’t really blame him at this stage because she has to have been this way with him all of his life and he never learned how to become his own man. If she wants to marry him, she should make sure he is capable of changing the relationship he has with his mother. She is going to be a nightmare to be around and I think it will get worse once they have children. I would caution her to let him deal with his mother. She may be tempted to say something to her herself, but I am a firm believer in a couple each dealing with their own family issues. She can be supportive of her boyfriend and have his back by encouraging him to stand up for himself, but let him be the one to draw the line.
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Rhondito
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Post by Rhondito on May 31, 2024 16:21:01 GMT
Been there, done that.
It will not get better. Her BF needs to stand up to his mother yesterday, if not, she'll run over him/your daughter from here on out.
If he won't put a stop to it now, your daughter needs to walk away or understand this will be her life.
My exMIL was like this; She didn't like that I took one of her baby boys away from her. She went so far as to tell him "it's not too late for an annulment" when he was sent overseas on a deployment after our wedding.
I have to give him credit - he told her not to make him choose between his mother and his wife because she would not win, and he kept his word when she kept meddling. He cut her off. But get this - when he came back stateside she somehow figured out where he was stationed, AND CALLED THE BASE COMMANDER saying she couldn't get in touch with him!
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Post by snoopy on May 31, 2024 16:22:31 GMT
It seems that your DD really loves her BF and is clearly planning a future with him. Unfortunately, I have to agree with everyone else who suggests that your DD needs to reevaluate this relationship. This situation will not resolve until the BF can set firm boundaries with his mother. This could potentially be a nightmare if your DD and her BF plan to have children in the future.
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Post by scrapmaven on May 31, 2024 16:22:42 GMT
I always tell my boys that you don't just marry the girl. You marry the entire family. His mother is the dominant person in his life and unless he sets clear boundaries then she will continue to be the dominant person. I thought of the following questions because a close family member had horrible in-laws and I learned from that experience.
Questions for your dd to consider:
Is your dd going to be content w/bf's mother designing the new house? Everything your dd wants to do will be shot down by the potential mil who will be contrary, because she wants your dd to be unhappy and leave her son alone.
-Will she be content spending holidays and lots of time w/someone who will be abusive and controlling?
-Does she want to spend years w/someone and a potential grandma who resents your daughter for stealing her son?
-When she has conflict w/his mom will your dd be OK if her bf doesn't do anything to support your dd?
-As his mom gets older is your dd willing to take care of her and take her to appts, or do personal care for a woman who is so awful to her?
-Will your dd be ok if her mil treats the grandkids badly or talks badly about your dd to the grandkids?
These are all things to consider. At 24 she's still so young and it's hard to think about spending 30 or 40 years w/someone who is so controlling and insulting. A person close to me married into this situation and it was horrible. She ended up helping a great deal and as her mil got old she was even nastier. If her bf sets boundaries then the relationship could be fine, but w/o couple's therapy that might be hard for him. Being in love just isn't enough.
You're such a sweet person and your dd deserves a great life ahead, not a complicated, dysfunctional mess. I truly hope that her bf will stand up to his mom and that this relationship can blossom. Your dd's overall happiness and well being comes first.
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Post by Miss Ang on May 31, 2024 17:23:39 GMT
Some mamas have a hard time cutting the cord with their sons. He can change this by approaching mom with love and and respect for her but at the same time showing love and respect for his relationship; he needs to make it crystal clear to mama that he is an adult and his relationship and the adult decisions he is now making are for him and your daughter. He can still love his mom without including her in every detail and decision of his life.
If he's not willing to do that now there is a .0001% chance he will do it later. No matter how much she loves him, your daughter needs to understand that he is ALWAYS going to put mama's wishes above hers and that will be a very unhealthy marriage. It will not get better.
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Ryann
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Love is Inclusive
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Post by Ryann on May 31, 2024 17:39:37 GMT
Backstory... DD (24) has been dating said BF (27) for a little over a year now. His mother is horrible and is always asserting herself into their relationship. She's passive aggressive, overbearing, and sometimes downright aggressive. She thinks she knows everything, has to be the best at everything, and is just toxic. She talks shit about my DD to her son all the time. It has reached a fever pitch, and my DD doesn't know what to do. She needs advice from the wise peas! The current situation is that he is trying to move out from his mother's house and have his own house built. (DD lives alone in a very small one-bedroom apartment) DD and BF want to get married at some point in the future (a year or so from now). DD and BF are designing this house together with the intention of this being their home after they get married. DD and BF have a builder's meeting next week and his mother wants to come. BF even had the nerve to ask my DD if that would be okay because his mother is relentlessly hounding him with questions and her opinions. Obviously, it is not okay with DD. The mother will take over the meeting as she bulldozes every conversation. His mother does not want him to have anything nicer than what she has and is jealous. DD thinks that she is jealous that her son is creating a life that she wishes she could have and apparently doesn't want him to move out. BF has tried to set boundaries several times and his mom cries and backs off for about a day and then the cycle continues. He has a lot on his plate with working and going to school full time. He is very stressed out and DD feels bad that he is stuck in the middle between a "war" with DD and his mom. My DD doesn't know how much more of this she can take. She loves him and doesn't want to break up. The have zero issues in their relationship except for his mom.For those of you that have monsters for mother in laws what would you tell your younger self? If you have read all this...thank you. I agree with the previous poster that your DD needs to reframe this. The issue isn't the mom, it's the BF. While the BF can't control his mom, he can control how he responds/how he interacts with her. If he's unable or unwilling to place boundaries (and stick to them) regardless of his mom's "feelings", that's a LOT of baggage for their relationship to carry into the future. |
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Post by mom on May 31, 2024 17:47:23 GMT
I’m late to this thread and I’m sure someone has already said this….
BUT boyfriends mom is doing this because HE lets her. If he didn’t allow her to be talk bad about your daughter, then she wouldn’t be so comfortable doing it. I’m not saying he can completely control his mom but he has more control than he is asserting.
He’s a grown ass man at 27 - it’s time he acts like one and cut the strings (and relationship if need be) to his mom. She wouldn’t have opinions on every if he wasn’t telling her everything.
Honestly, my advice to your daughter is to pay attention to the red flags that are being shown. They won’t go away and if he can’t handle his mom now, then she’s signing up for a lifetime of headaches and drama.
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Post by smasonnc on May 31, 2024 18:04:07 GMT
DD has enough red flags for a parade, especially since the woman talks s#*t about her to the BF. She talks shit about my DD to her son all the time. Dealbreaker. BF has tried to set boundaries several times and his mom cries and backs off for about a day and then the cycle continues. Toxic, using tears to inflict guilt. He has a lot on his plate with working and going to school full time. He is very stressed out and DD feels bad that he is stuck in the middle between a "war" with DD and his mom. DD feels bad? Wait what? He's making her feel guilty because he can't man up and set boundaries. Poor angel. It must be hell watching his mom light into his girlfriend and there's "nothing he can do about it." His flaccid response to all this is another red flag and it sounds like he's gaslighting your daughter into thinking it's her fault. Mom started the war. The only way it ends is the "nuclear option" where he cuts her off until she learns how to behave, which doesn't sound likely. A guy can only have one Number One woman in his life. Choose wisely. |
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Post by **GypsyGirl** on May 31, 2024 18:16:07 GMT
Missed this somehow. She talks shit about my DD to her son all the time. And he tells your DD what she says???  Oh hell no! To me that is worse than anything his mom is doing. He does not value your DD if he is sharing these negative comments at all. Add in all the other stuff and this is a doomed relationship IMO. It's like he is enjoying seeing the two women pitted against each other - over him. Honestly, your DD would be wise to take a break from this relationship and get some counseling to find out why she feels badly for him being in the middle of a "war". That 'war' exists because he has allowed it to. She has nothing to feel badly for. |
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The Birdhouse Lady
Drama Llama
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Posts: 7,414
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Jun 30, 2014 17:15:19 GMT
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Post by The Birdhouse Lady on May 31, 2024 19:49:37 GMT
You guys!! Thank you so much. There is so much wisdom here. I am going to have her read all of the responses. She is working today but tomorrow we are spending the day together.
I could hardly sleep last night thinking about this.
So many of you have spoken the words I could not come up with.
I will update the thread later on the outcome.
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Post by mikklynn on May 31, 2024 20:01:15 GMT
I agree with the others who stated that she has a boyfriend problem. If he doesn't put a stop to the behavior, the relationship is doomed. I would suggest that he gets therapy to learn how to set and maintain boundaries with his mother. Your DD should not involve herself financially in the house purchase until things change.
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iowgirl
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Post by iowgirl on May 31, 2024 20:06:21 GMT
The have zero issues in their relationship except for his mom. That is one big whopper of an issue. A relationship ending issue. She could be miserable for many years. I would NOT enter into any real estate contracts as a couple without being married. Any lawyer will tell you to NEVER do this. Do not go into purchasing/building a house jointly if you are not married. I am not clear if they are doing this jointly or if he only is paying the cost. I can't begin to stress this - DO NOT JOINTLY BUY/BUILD a house unless you are legally married. I would get the Mother issue completely sorted out before even thinking about getting engaged. It is not going to get better. IT WILL NOT GET BETTER. My advice to her is to begin ending the relationship now, which I know is so hard to do. If her boyfriend truly loves her, he will deal with his mother. If he can not do that, end the relationship and cut your losses. |
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The Birdhouse Lady
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Post by The Birdhouse Lady on May 31, 2024 20:11:53 GMT
The have zero issues in their relationship except for his mom. That is one big whopper of an issue. A relationship ending issue. She could be miserable for many years. I would NOT enter into any real estate contracts as a couple without being married. Any lawyer will tell you to NEVER do this. Do not go into purchasing/building a house jointly if you are not married. I am not clear if they are doing this jointly or if he only is paying the cost. I can't begin to stress this - DO NOT JOINTLY BUY/BUILD a house unless you are legally married. I would get the Mother issue completely sorted out before even thinking about getting engaged. It is not going to get better. IT WILL NOT GET BETTER. My advice to her is to begin ending the relationship now, which I know is so hard to do. If her boyfriend truly loves her, he will deal with his mother. If he can not do that, end the relationship and cut your losses. My DD is not involved in the money aspect of this new build. My daughter bought her own multi-family dwelling when she was 22. She lives in part and the rest in rented out. My dd is no dummy!! She knows financially mixing money before marriage is a big no no. |
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The Birdhouse Lady
Drama Llama
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Posts: 7,414
Location: Alaska -The Last Frontier
Jun 30, 2014 17:15:19 GMT
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Post by The Birdhouse Lady on May 31, 2024 20:13:21 GMT
After reading all these posts, I see that he is also the problem. I hadn't really seen it that way until now, and it is now crystal clear.
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Post by mollycoddle on May 31, 2024 20:43:36 GMT
I agree with the others who stated that she has a boyfriend problem. If he doesn't put a stop to the behavior, the relationship is doomed. I would suggest that he gets therapy to learn how to set and maintain boundaries with his mother. Your DD should not involve herself financially in the house purchase until things change. Excellent point about getting involved financially. Just…no. |
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Post by mollycoddle on May 31, 2024 20:46:02 GMT
After reading all these posts, I see that he is also the problem. I hadn't really seen it that way until now, and it is now crystal clear. To be fair to him, it is difficult to deal with a bulldozer mother. I know. BUT he is a grown-ass adult now, and he needs to make some decisions. I really suggest therapy. It can help so much. |
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Post by christine58 on May 31, 2024 21:07:20 GMT
After reading all these posts, I see that he is also the problem. I hadn't really seen it that way until now, and it is now crystal clear. To be fair to him, it is difficult to deal with a bulldozer mother. I know. BUT he is a grown-ass adult now, and he needs to make some decisions. I really suggest therapy. It can help so much. he has to be getting something out of this relationship, toxic or non-toxic that he has with his mother or it would’ve stopped a long time before now. She needs to really seriously think about continuing in this relationship. She should not get engaged or marry him for a long time because even if he says he’s gonna take care of this with his mother until she sees actual long-term change, it’s just gonna go right back to the same behavior. |
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Post by crazy4scraps on May 31, 2024 21:15:29 GMT
I agree with everyone else. My MIL was toxic but not in those ways. This is definitely a BF problem because he won’t man up and tell his mom her antics won’t fly anymore. Dude needs counseling ASAP to help give him the tools to handle this. I’m sure it really doesn’t help that he’s 27 years old and still living in mommy’s house, that definitely contributes to his mom having the upper hand.
I think if I were DD, I would tell him that if he doesn’t get counseling it is a deal breaker for the relationship going forward. If he can’t choose her now he won’t choose her later. Make him choose now before she gets even more invested.
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Post by questioning on May 31, 2024 22:30:15 GMT
Maybe I'm jaded by our current housing market - is able to afford this house because he's been rent free for years? If so, that might be a cause for his mother to feel entitled.
Even if that's the case, I'm glad your DD is willing to confront the problem before it's too late.
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Post by MichyM on May 31, 2024 22:36:49 GMT
Yeah, I think that him living at home at age 27 has not helped the relationship between he and his mother mature at all. I wish your daughter all the best, and I cannot imagine this guy cutting the cord quickly since he IS still at his parent's home, but maybe he will.
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kate
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Jun 26, 2014 3:30:05 GMT
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Post by kate on May 31, 2024 23:23:30 GMT
I'm VERY relieved to hear that they are not jointly financing the new house.
Now, are his parents contributing $ to this project? If so, then Mom may be thinking she has some say in the house being built how SHE thinks it should be. If DD is "just" a gf (not fiancee or wife), Mom may not think DD "deserves" a say in how the house is designed.
He needs to move out of their house ASAP so he can begin to establish himself as independent in Mom's eyes - and (this part just just MHO; you're free to disagree) so he has some experience living on his own without Mom OR wife looking after him. It might make a big difference to your DD.
I have been beyond fortunate in the in-law department. I loved and admired both of DH's parents (God rest their souls), and they were both tremendously supportive of us as a couple. I will try my best to give my kids' spouses the same courtesy, when the time comes.
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Post by coaliesquirrel on May 31, 2024 23:23:32 GMT
He needs to move out of her house - but NOT in with DD. That's so his mom sees him making a break and starting to live his own life without having reason to point her finger at DD as the cause. They need couple's counseling to see if this is something they can get through before getting married and further entangled, but I don't think the counseling will do any good at all while he's still under her roof. And that's how he's viewing it - he has to be nice to her and bend to her rule while he's still under her roof. If things change once he's not feeling indebted to her for his housing, then great. If not, head for the hills.
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Post by epeanymous on May 31, 2024 23:34:54 GMT
After reading all these posts, I see that he is also the problem. I hadn't really seen it that way until now, and it is now crystal clear. When I was processing my inlaw problems earlier in my marriage, it took a number of people very firmly telling me that what I had was a husband problem, not inlaw problems, and it took still more years for me to really believe it. If she can absorb the message now, she will save herself sooooo much grief. |
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Deleted
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Nov 28, 2024 2:54:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2024 23:38:00 GMT
You’ve received great advice on the relationship aspect so I’m going to throw out the suggestion that DD obtain a declaration of trust, cohabitation property agreement, or equivalent legal document protecting her interests if she decides to continue this relationship and moves into the property before marriage.
Financially adept people aren’t immune to overlooking the importance of interim short term asset protection. Lacking financial investment in the initial purchase doesn’t preclude her from obtaining limited residency rights and equitable interest commiserate with her contributions (however small) in the event an unforeseen tragedy or circumstance gives her boyfriend’s meddling mother controlling interest due to consanguinity laws favoring line of kinship. These agreements are often nullified upon marriage or when other protections kick in.
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peabay
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Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Jun 1, 2024 0:12:41 GMT
The ONLY way she should consider marrying him is if they go into counseling together before and if things don't change, she needs to get out.
I have a friend who is the overbearing mom. She's a widow and it's not that she's so difficult, but she just really relies on her son a lot and has always been very, very involved with him (and sort of controlling tbh). And he's put up with it because he doesn't want to hurt her (he's a really sweet guy.) Well, he met a girl who didn't like how enmeshed the two of them were (and as much as I love my friend, they were very co-dependent) and who basically told him all the things that have been suggested here.
It was a very difficult time for them all, but they came to a happy ending. My friend could see where she was overstepping (no, they didn't need to her come to their house and buy and decorate a Christmas tree as a "surprise") and he reassured her that he would always be there for her and his now wife recognized that there's nothing wrong with being close with your mom as long as there are strong boundaries.
It can work out - everyone has to be willing to own their place in the conflict and be willing to change.
I hope this works out for them!
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The Birdhouse Lady
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Post by The Birdhouse Lady on Jun 1, 2024 0:15:48 GMT
You’ve received great advice on the relationship aspect so I’m going to throw out the suggestion that DD obtain a declaration of trust, cohabitation property agreement, or equivalent legal document protecting her interests if she decides to continue this relationship and moves into the property before marriage. Financially adept people aren’t immune to overlooking the importance of interim short term asset protection. Lacking financial investment in the initial purchase doesn’t preclude her from obtaining limited residency rights and equitable interest commiserate with her contributions (however small) in the event an unforeseen tragedy or circumstance gives her boyfriend’s meddling mother controlling interest due to consanguinity laws favoring line of kinship. These agreements are often nullified upon marriage or when other protections kick in. She adamantly says she will not live with him until they are legally married. |
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Oh hell no! To me that is worse than anything his mom is doing. He does not value your DD if he is sharing these negative comments at all. Add in all the other stuff and this is a doomed relationship IMO. It's like he is enjoying seeing the two women pitted against each other - over him. 
