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Post by FuzzyMutt on Jun 18, 2024 4:18:47 GMT
My husband… ….spiraling out from there. I don’t know where to turn or what to do. I don’t have magic words. I’m raising a 22 year old son as well… working through it. I saw your last post and wanted you to know you’re not alone, and I am thinking of you. Maybe just tell your husband it’s late and it’s just not a time you have the energy to help him to process this his way.. talk tomorrow. * I obvs don’t know him, or you, so this is a vanilla suggestion. Assuming he’s generally a reasonable person but you’re both going through your own versions of disappointment, anger, fear and frustration. Also, I don’t know your story, and I can’t imagine how much more complex it must be to be struggling with parenting a child requiring so much intervention after the trauma of losing a child. Hugs ❤️ |
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Post by shescrafty on Jun 18, 2024 4:42:00 GMT
My husband… ….spiraling out from there. I don’t know where to turn or what to do. I don’t have magic words. I’m raising a 22 year old son as well… working through it. I saw your last post and wanted you to know you’re not alone, and I am thinking of you. Maybe just tell your husband it’s late and it’s just not a time you have the energy to help him to process this his way.. talk tomorrow. * I obvs don’t know him, or you, so this is a vanilla suggestion. Assuming he’s generally a reasonable person but you’re both going through your own versions of disappointment, anger, fear and frustration. Also, I don’t know your story, and I can’t imagine how much more complex it must be to be struggling with parenting a child requiring so much intervention after the trauma of losing a child. Hugs ❤️ Thank you all for your kind words. I am usually the one who wants to settle things and talk/get mad at night so I would have no place asking him not to. I understand that for right now as it is not his norm. I just don’t know how we can dig out and how much of the heavy lifting anybody will do. We are always waiting for our son to rise to the occasion and every time he doesn’t it is devastating. I don’t even mean to do something spectacular-just keep his word. In this case it was getting to work on time. |
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wellway
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Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Jun 18, 2024 6:48:40 GMT
From your first post I wondered if your son had adhd and if he had time blindness.
He has adhd and he has depression and more importantly, he is not on medication for adhd. It is really unrealistic to expect a neurodivigent person to act in a neurotypical way.
Time management is a known issue for adhd people.
I would ask you to look up the rates of adhd among homeless people and the prison population. Kicking him out is not going magic away the adhd and get him to pull his socks up because his brain does not work like that. He is probably doing the best he can under the circumstances, he is not neurotypical. Having adhd is hard and lonely and all encompassing.
What is his objection to medication?
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Post by shescrafty on Jun 18, 2024 9:53:36 GMT
From your first post I wondered if your son had adhd and if he had time blindness. He has adhd and he has depression and more importantly, he is not on medication for adhd. It is really unrealistic to expect a neurodivigent person to act in a neurotypical way. Time management is a known issue for adhd people. I would ask you to look up the rates of adhd among homeless people and the prison population. Kicking him out is not going magic away the adhd and get him to pull his socks up because his brain does not work like that. He is probably doing the best he can under the circumstances, he is not neurotypical. Having adhd is hard and lonely and all encompassing. What is his objection to medication? He stopped taking it once he turned 18. The subject has been broached but we dealt with so many different things between Covid, remote college that turned into failing, and leading to this that they anxiety and depression became the main issue. I am terrified for him and for our family. I understand the negative impacts of any mental health disorder and this is why I have been awake all night in a state of utter fear. |
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Post by christine58 on Jun 18, 2024 10:07:42 GMT
Do you think any of his behaviors over the years have anything to do with his sister‘s illness and then death? Google The Glass Child. I first heard about it was in a blog I follow about a mom and her family and their autistic son.
It also sounds like your husband is still struggling with the loss of his daughter, which is completely understandable. That’s something that will never go away, but it sounds like he holds a lot of anger over what family did or did not do.
You and your husband probably should go to therapy and if you can get your son to go with you, that would be great. He needs to be on ADHD meds. Would he maybe be agreed to a trial?
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wellway
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Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Jun 18, 2024 10:10:37 GMT
shescrafty, hugs, I understand. Truly, I do. What are his strengths? Maybe, looking at the issue another way will provide a possible solution. As far as meds go, maybe he will come around. Dropping them at 18 sounds like " I want to control decisions about me" kind of thing.
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Post by shescrafty on Jun 18, 2024 10:13:46 GMT
All of this is what I know in mybheartbisbtrue. But dealing with them in the midst of a crisis is another and is so overwhelming
And to add to it my husband and I have an Alaskan cruise planned that leaves next week. So our trip which has been so planned for and exciting now has an overwhelming shadow across it. We are going with other friends and have been planning all of our excursions, etc and now it will be absolute shit. We can’t get refunded and I don’t want to cancel. It feels like one more thing being ruined by our son.
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Post by peasapie on Jun 18, 2024 11:14:33 GMT
One of the things I learned along the way is that I can’t control what my adult children do, and I needed to accept and leave room for them to decide how to live their life. Giving them that power is strengthening for everyone. Put up guide rails - living home means getting and keeping a job and paying some rent. Any job will do, and all jobs teach us lessons. (My husband worked in a factory for five years before he decided to get himself to law school.). Don’t compare his life progress with what his friends are doing Go on your trip. Show your son you believe he can figure things out for himself and that you’ll be there to support him as he figures it out.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 18, 2024 11:20:03 GMT
Try your best to enjoy your cruise. When you get back, there will be time to talk to your son. Then, if you haven’t done it already, give your son some responsibilities, such as a modest amount of rent, his own car insurance, etc.
I am sorry for your troubles.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 18, 2024 11:20:49 GMT
One of the things I learned along the way is that I can’t control what my adult children do, and I needed to accept and leave room for them to decide how to live their life. Giving them that power is strengthening for everyone. Put up guide rails - living home means getting and keeping a job and paying some rent. Any job will do, and all jobs teach us lessons. (My husband worked in a factory for five years before he decided to get himself to law school.). Don’t compare his life progress with what his friends are doing Go on your trip. Show your son you believe he can figure things out for himself and that you’ll be there to support him as he figures it out. This ^^^^ |
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Post by lesserknownpea on Jun 18, 2024 12:02:00 GMT
You and your husband have been through so much. Your heartbreaking time during your DD’s illness must have made your DH feel so helpless, I remember you sharing here so vividly.
We do the best we can raising our children, but at a certain point, we have to trust them. And it’s hard. I know your husband is especially upset about the lying, but why did he feel he had to lie? He couldn’t face disappointing you again.
Go enjoy the trip. Thinking of your son as ruining it is exactly what you don’t want to do. Instead, reframe it as , perfect timing: you definitely need a vacation away from worrying about all this!
Your son is healthy. It sounds like he is sweet, and kind, and has marketable skills. He’s immature, which is understandable, considering the ADHD, and anxiety. You cannot expect him to be on the same schedule as kids who do not have these impediments. It’s not logical. Pushing, threatening, pleading are not going to make him mature faster any more than begging a tomato to redden up will.
When you get home from Alaska, I hope you all can go to therapy and talk about your emotions, expectations, and don’t forget to include yourself, you have been taking care of everyone else’s needs at the expense of your own for a long time now.
You are not failures as parents and your son is not a failure. And he will do fine, give him time, and do what Merge said.
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Post by Zee on Jun 18, 2024 12:15:17 GMT
All of this is what I know in mybheartbisbtrue. But dealing with them in the midst of a crisis is another and is so overwhelming And to add to it my husband and I have an Alaskan cruise planned that leaves next week. So our trip which has been so planned for and exciting now has an overwhelming shadow across it. We are going with other friends and have been planning all of our excursions, etc and now it will be absolute shit. We can’t get refunded and I don’t want to cancel. It feels like one more thing being ruined by our son. Believe me, I have been there with our adult son. It's infuriating when you let it be, but he can sit on the back burner while you and DH enjoy your vacation. On the bright side, you have a house sitter. He's obviously been struggling too or he wouldn't bother to hide in the garage to avoid telling you the truth. I'm glad you are pursuing therapy with him. I'm sure your daughter's death was a trauma that no one has fully recovered from, and that grief might look different for all three of you. Please take the vacation as a way to get a little breathing room and perspective on your son's situation, rather than mourning his entire future. He's only 22, all is not lost. As I said in the other thread about our struggling adult children, it feels shameful to have an adult child who can't seem to get it together, but I am over feeling that way. |
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Post by shescrafty on Jun 18, 2024 12:42:23 GMT
All of this is what I know in mybheartbisbtrue. But dealing with them in the midst of a crisis is another and is so overwhelming And to add to it my husband and I have an Alaskan cruise planned that leaves next week. So our trip which has been so planned for and exciting now has an overwhelming shadow across it. We are going with other friends and have been planning all of our excursions, etc and now it will be absolute shit. We can’t get refunded and I don’t want to cancel. It feels like one more thing being ruined by our son. Believe me, I have been there with our adult son. It's infuriating when you let it be, but he can sit on the back burner while you and DH enjoy your vacation. On the bright side, you have a house sitter. He's obviously been struggling too or he wouldn't bother to hide in the garage to avoid telling you the truth. I'm glad you are pursuing therapy with him. I'm sure your daughter's death was a trauma that no one has fully recovered from, and that grief might look different for all three of you. Please take the vacation as a way to get a little breathing room and perspective on your son's situation, rather than mourning his entire future. He's only 22, all is not lost. As I said in the other thread about our struggling adult children, it feels shameful to have an adult child who can't seem to get it together, but I am over feeling that way. The shame is exactly where we are. He has been paying $1500 a month rent. $500 goes to us, $500 towards a house, and $500 towards the car. He never would have saved any for the car if that had not been at my insistence. Now my husband says he wants to return the car (2 months old) and he can buy a beater from the money he gets and deal with that. Even with giving us rent he always wasted his money on video games-like thousands over the past 2 years. Hence he has no buffer to fall back on to keep up any payments. Which is infuriating as well as he still made about $1800 AFTER paying us the $1500. He just did not choose to save any in his own. We have tried all the right path stuff and that is why my DH is done. I am just numb. It’s not that I am not reading and agreeing with everyone, it’s that I KNOW you are right and it is so so hard still to be in the position especially when I can’t deal with my own feelings because my husband is so mad. So I feel like I am walking on eggshells right now. Last night I know nobody slept. I slept on the couch which seemed to upset my DH, but I was so restless that I knew we would keep each other awake. My son did make a therapy appt and I am going to try and telehealth it in with him. That is as far as we are right now. |
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Post by Susie_Homemaker on Jun 18, 2024 13:12:37 GMT
My husband wants to kick him out immediately. I can't speak to your son specifically, but this is not a terrible idea. It might not feel like it to a mama's heart, but it might be the thing he needs. You don't tell him you're kicking hit out, you tell him that you trust him to figure it out and to be able to succeed on his own. He (general) needs the safety net taken away and to know (lie for now) that he can do this on his own. It's sink or swim time. (Again, I don't know your son, this is just some good general advice that can and does work for some adult kids) |
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Post by mikklynn on Jun 18, 2024 13:22:20 GMT
I'm so sorry. I think you are on the right track with therapy for everyone.
Is there any way you can go on your cruise, with the understanding that you and your DH will just table all discussions about your son for that one week? My DH and I did that when our DS got kicked off a band trip and we were out of state on vacation. We decided to not let our kid ruin our trip. We flew him to us, explained we were not allowing his poor decision making to ruin our trip. All consequences would be discussed when we got home. We were able to salvage the trip.
I realize the trip is not at the top of your worries, but the cooling off period may be helpful.
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Post by ntsf on Jun 18, 2024 14:57:30 GMT
I haven't read it and I don't know if your son would read a book, but the Holderness family dad wrote a book about adhd and how he now sees it as his superpower and how he managed it to be a strength in his life, not a detriment. they are a social media posters.. won the Amazing race.
just an idea while you are on a cruise. my son has adhd and is still building his life at 37.. we. have been supportive.. but boy does he believe in the meds helping him. he bounced in and out of our house. but by being supportive.. it has given him confidence to tackle stuff.
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peabay
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Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Jun 18, 2024 15:14:48 GMT
One of the things I learned along the way is that I can’t control what my adult children do, and I needed to accept and leave room for them to decide how to live their life. Giving them that power is strengthening for everyone. Put up guide rails - living home means getting and keeping a job and paying some rent. Any job will do, and all jobs teach us lessons. (My husband worked in a factory for five years before he decided to get himself to law school.). Don’t compare his life progress with what his friends are doing Go on your trip. Show your son you believe he can figure things out for himself and that you’ll be there to support him as he figures it out. This is exactly what I was going to say. I can't tell you how many times I've laid in bed, awake in the middle of the night, worrying about one of my adult children, saying "I can't control this. I can't control this." The sooner we let go, the sooner we soothe ourselves. I'm not saying it's easy - but for your own mental health you have to let him take control of it all. That being said, I would still do a family therapy appointment, since he is living with you and there are family systems components here. Sending my best - omg, our kids can make us insane. I feel your pain and I understand it completely. |
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Post by bunnyhug on Jun 18, 2024 15:44:47 GMT
I'm reading Jessica McCabe's book How To ADHD, and it's been really helpful in understanding that not everyone's ADHD looks the same--my kids and my own present radically differently, and we're all closely related! She also has a YouTube channel of the same name that's very conversational and approachable but also packed with well researched and presented info. I'd recommend it for you and for your dh.
ADHD is a disability, and expecting someone to just 'figure out' how to deal with all of the challenges it presents is not realistic or fair ... it's like telling someone with a visual impairment to just look at the directional signs to find their way through a huge office building multiple stories high ... Your kid probably carries a great deal of shame for not being able to make it in the regular world in a regular way, and lying is a self defence mechanism (although not an effective one!). Finding a good psychologist or psychiatrist (who has experience and knowledge about ADHD) that your son connects with is crucial. This isn't a "pull yourself up by your boot straps" kind of situation for him, and expecting him to do so is just setting him up for failure and shame and more lying. Add in the trauma of having ADHD and trying to learn online during the pandemic, and the grief from the loss of his sibling, and your ds is probably doing pretty well at holding himself together as much as he can.
Good luck to you and your dh and ds. Nothing about this is easy, and it won't get easier without professional help, but it can get more manageable and tolerable if you can all work together.
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Post by sunnyd on Jun 18, 2024 15:54:34 GMT
#1 Make the decision to go on your trip and don't let your son's issues overshadow your fun. That is something you have control of. You 100% need to do this for yourselves.
#2 Feel free to ignore this or chat with your therapist if it strikes ya. Because of all you've been through with your daughter you may be parenting from a place of fear, which is totally normal. You are having big reactions because society has told us what is acceptable and normal. Our ego tells us that if our kids "fail" to meet society's standards, we failed. If our kids are successful we are ok. We all want to be ok. Ego is the part of our brain that judges, compares, feels superior or inferior, and identifies itself with external “things”. We were all raised to believe that if we didn't succeed our parents wouldn't be proud of us and maybe wouldn't love us as much. Your son getting fired, being late, lying is triggering your ego. All you can do is take responsibility for your feelings by noticing, feeling and reflecting instead of reacting.
#3 He will figure it out.
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ddly
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 10, 2014 19:36:28 GMT
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Post by ddly on Jun 18, 2024 15:54:39 GMT
I’m sorry, that is hard. Sometimes kids just take a while to find their way. Totally this! It took my daughter a little bit. It was so hard for me but I stood by her and always let her know how much I loved her. She’s an amazing person now and she just keeps getting better! |
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kate
Drama Llama
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Location: The city that doesn't sleep
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Jun 26, 2014 3:30:05 GMT
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Post by kate on Jun 18, 2024 16:08:26 GMT
We are in a similar boat. Military is not an option. I'm strongly suggesting a year of service along the lines of AmeriCorps - it would be meaningful to my social-justice-minded kid, it includes student loan payment forbearance, and it might give some marketable skills to my brilliant but very lost young adult.
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Post by shescrafty on Jun 18, 2024 16:19:41 GMT
#1 Make the decision to go on your trip and don't let your son's issues overshadow your fun. That is something you have control of. You 100% need to do this for yourselves. #2 Feel free to ignore this or chat with your therapist if it strikes ya. Because of all you've been through with your daughter you may be parenting from a place of fear, which is totally normal. You are having big reactions because society has told us what is acceptable and normal. Our ego tells us that if our kids "fail" to meet society's standards, we failed. If our kids are successful we are ok. We all want to be ok. Ego is the part of our brain that judges, compares, feels superior or inferior, and identifies itself with external “things”. We were all raised to believe that if we didn't succeed our parents wouldn't be proud of us and maybe wouldn't love us as much. Your son getting fired, being late, lying is triggering your ego. All you can do is take responsibility for your feelings by noticing, feeling and reflecting instead of reacting. #3 He will figure it out. I live in a place of fear completely. When my husband was yelling about kicking him out I said I already lost one child and am not risking things to lose another to suicide. And it feels so so shameful. Going to college graduation parties if his friends while he is getting fired from a good job. It’s like we cant ever just enjoy him because we are always waiting for the next bad thing to happen. I never relax-ever. I am always in a state of fear that has now gone into full blown panic. And b/c my husband is so irrational right now it is just weighing so heavy on me because I am trying to support both of them but neither of them support me. I appreciate all the kind words-I really do! |
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Post by flanz on Jun 18, 2024 16:21:58 GMT
My heart is breaking for you.
Please try to find a way to go out and do something purely for your own well being. Would a massage help? Time in a lovely park or other setting to just breathe and enjoy the sunshine or ________? A good walk/talk/cry with a friend?
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Post by epeanymous on Jun 18, 2024 16:32:02 GMT
I’m sorry, that is hard. Sometimes kids just take a while to find their way. Honestly, this is true. I can’t tell you the number of amazing law students I have had who went through long periods of effing before making it to college or after graduating. It is hard as a parent. |
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Post by eventhinker on Jun 18, 2024 17:42:45 GMT
My son failed out of college because he didn’t go to class, the whole getting up for things. We moved him back home gave him a three month deadline for employment of any kind. He got a job at Walmart. 9 years. He’s still there. He is happy, secure, and 29 years old. His sense of personal responsibility is 10000% better than before. He was what I call late-blooming. Yes he also lied about how things were going. We can joke about that now.
The kicker? For his shift he gets up at 3 am. And he does it every single day, without help from his partner.
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caangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,736
Location: So Cal
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Post by caangel on Jun 18, 2024 18:13:33 GMT
#1 Make the decision to go on your trip and don't let your son's issues overshadow your fun. That is something you have control of. You 100% need to do this for yourselves. #2 Feel free to ignore this or chat with your therapist if it strikes ya. Because of all you've been through with your daughter you may be parenting from a place of fear, which is totally normal. You are having big reactions because society has told us what is acceptable and normal. Our ego tells us that if our kids "fail" to meet society's standards, we failed. If our kids are successful we are ok. We all want to be ok. Ego is the part of our brain that judges, compares, feels superior or inferior, and identifies itself with external “things”. We were all raised to believe that if we didn't succeed our parents wouldn't be proud of us and maybe wouldn't love us as much. Your son getting fired, being late, lying is triggering your ego. All you can do is take responsibility for your feelings by noticing, feeling and reflecting instead of reacting. #3 He will figure it out. I live in a place of fear completely. When my husband was yelling about kicking him out I said I already lost one child and am not risking things to lose another to suicide. And it feels so so shameful. Going to college graduation parties if his friends while he is getting fired from a good job. It’s like we cant ever just enjoy him because we are always waiting for the next bad thing to happen. I never relax-ever. I am always in a state of fear that has now gone into full blown panic. And b/c my husband is so irrational right now it is just weighing so heavy on me because I am trying to support both of them but neither of them support me. I appreciate all the kind words-I really do! Right now you need to take care of you. Get a therapy session for you. You need guidance in how to deal with your DH and DS, not how to help them but how you can deal with their behavior so that you can keep your mental health. When you are healthier then you will be in a better place to help others. You don't seem to be in that place now. |
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Post by shescrafty on Jun 18, 2024 18:25:11 GMT
I just had a calm talk with my husband. I laid out that I have had mental health issues, HE has had them, so as adults it is irresponsible to just say he is just lazy when the both of us needed outside help for our own struggles. He agreed and I think that seemed to click in.
We did agree that he needs to move out but not in the midst of this chaos. We are making a plan for September. That will give him time to solidify a job, we will figure out the car to get it wholly out of DHs name, and get a decent place to live. It will hopefully also help him find the right meds and get steps with a therapist.
I also asked my husband if he could compartmentalize our trip and he said he would try. Nothing is perfect but I feel I explained my viewpoint in a sensual manner.
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Post by worrywart on Jun 18, 2024 18:39:08 GMT
Will ds have any responsibilities at home when you are gone (pets etc)? It may be good for him to have a few things to keep him busy and his mind occupied.
I can sympathize with all of your feelings and have felt all of those emotions trying to launch my own child. I don't ever think it is wrong to err on the side of a child's mental health -- ever. There have been a few times that I have been in that constant panic mode due to my child's choices. It is overwhelming.
Please try and enjoy your trip as much as possible. It will probably be good to have some time apart. ((hugs))
edit: I'm glad that you had a productive conversation with dh and it is good to have a plan partially in place.
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Post by questioning on Jun 18, 2024 19:27:57 GMT
I just had a calm talk with my husband. I laid out that I have had mental health issues, HE has had them, so as adults it is irresponsible to just say he is just lazy when the both of us needed outside help for our own struggles. He agreed and I think that seemed to click in. We did agree that he needs to move out but not in the midst of this chaos. We are making a plan for September. That will give him time to solidify a job, we will figure out the car to get it wholly out of DHs name, and get a decent place to live. It will hopefully also help him find the right meds and get steps with a therapist. I also asked my husband if he could compartmentalize our trip and he said he would try. Nothing is perfect but I feel I explained my viewpoint in a sensual manner. I've been catching up,it seems others have said all that I could add. I love your first paragraph above. ETA I have said this exact thing to my ADD husband about our child. My "kids" have reached mid 20's and it has been a ride. Looking at their friends I don't know if there's actually any commonality in paths. My ADD kid stopped meds during college because he didn't think he needed it to focus (ahem) and now has started again because he recognizes how it helps him manage. It's like the rest of life, we just don't recognize it until it happens. Some of the currently on track friends will graduate , find jobs and mates and have devastating divorces or losses midlife, while the slow rooters develop fantastic relationships or careers during those years. In the end most seem to find their place and time. Beating ourselves up trying to see the future in the current day doesn't help anyone. Have a sensual  vacation. I hope your son is also able to use the time to regroup. |
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Post by hopemax on Jun 18, 2024 20:03:58 GMT
One thing from reading this board, whether it be about a parent, a sibling, a partner/spouse or a child... an adult can have all the tools in the world, but if they won't use them, you can't change that. And when the person devotes too much energy trying to control the situation anyway... their mental health, and the relationships with the other people in their circle suffer.
Safety nets are a great thing for avoiding the most traumatic and fatal of consequences. But I wonder sometimes, if people are trying to use them to prevent all matter of uncomfortable situations and struggles, when those are important in the process of maturation and aging, even for neurodivergent folks. Part of that, also, is you an adult learning to give up the parenting role. You mention he has a girlfriend and friends. Sometimes they are more effective at getting messages across, even implied ones, just in how they function in life vs specifically vocalized, when young people are finally forced into, "Mom isn't going to step in this time."
Hopefully, your therapist can give you the tools you need to swim through this.
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vacation. I hope your son is also able to use the time to regroup.