scrapngranny
Pearl Clutcher
Only slightly senile
Posts: 4,861
Jun 25, 2014 23:21:30 GMT
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Post by scrapngranny on Sept 17, 2024 15:41:45 GMT
As I look back, I allowed my now 50ish age kids way too much TV time during the day, and I regret it. It was an easy way to keep them occupied so I could get things done. Now I wish I spent more time interacting with them and making memories. The damn telephone drove me nut when they were teens. Now it’s their turn to manage their kids. I must say they have a much better job managing gaming and phone time than I did. No devices M-F was a great start. Each generation seems to have their mine fields to navigate. The lack of time kids are able to focus is doing real damage to their brains.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 17, 2024 15:51:16 GMT
They prefer to meet up with friends in person - but the lack of places to do that and for my girls, the lack of a driver's license, makes online socialising easier. And TBH, I'm on the same bench except all my friends live on the computer This makes sense too. I also think there are a lot of parents who are nervous about their children venturing out into the world, as well. (Not that that's you.)
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Post by epeanymous on Sept 17, 2024 15:53:11 GMT
Unpopular opinion alert: it's useless to tell parents to limit screen time in the current context in which we're telling parents to raise their children. The key difference between the childhoods people experienced in the 1960s/1970s/1980s and now is that children had a lot of independence and less supervision. There are a zillion reasons for that, good and bad -- parents take much more interest in connecting with their kids emotionally and supporting their kids in learning emotional and social skills, which is good. We're also much less sanguine about a lot of genuine childhood hazards, like drowning and automobile accidents. The extent to which kids have less independence because of amplifying threats of things like abduction is probably less of a great development. But think about this -- parents used to be very comfortable sending relatively young children out for the day without supervision, and letting them wander after school, whereas now, things that were very normal in the childhoods of boombers and Gen X would garner CPS and police attention.
So what that means is kids are at home, in the home, with only their families, a lot more (or they are at structured activities, which is part of why so many kids are in structured activities, by the way). Parents spend *a lot* more time with their kids than they did a few generations ago. It's not that easy for parents to devote all of their time in the home to entertaining their kids, obviously, so you're left with the array of things you can do at home unsupervised. My kids have a *lot* of Lego sets. But this is a lot of why I think it's not that helpful to just say "parents should limit media use" -- a lot of the alternatives that were available when we were young aren't available now. It's also the case that kids 100% should be supported in learning responsible media use, and for many careers, media use is integral. I spend all of my time researching online, not with hard-copy books like I would have back in the day, and promoting my work is now a social media project (I've gotten two book collaboration projects literally off of Twitter).
So, I guess I can say at the same time that I don't think overreliance on social media is great, but I think there are explanations for how we are here right now that involve more structural change than telling kids to put their phones away.
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huskergal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,441
Jun 25, 2014 20:22:13 GMT
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Post by huskergal on Sept 17, 2024 16:01:59 GMT
My 26 year old daughter has a 4-year old daughter. She is the worst. She is on her phone constantly. If it is your DD on the phone, she is setting a poor example for her DD. I live in an older neighborhood that has become very popular with young families. One of my frequent complaints is that I see these young moms pushing strollers daily...with their heads their phones just scrolling away. Makes me want to open the door and scream PUT THE D@MN PHONE DOWN! I don't though as I am civilized. With their heads in the phone they are not fully aware of any dangers on their walk (stray dogs, crazy drivers, etc). But they are also missing out on precious time to interact with their children. Talking to them helps them to build their language skills and knowledge - even when they are tiny babies. Phone addiction is real. I have told her multiple times to get off her phone.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Sept 17, 2024 16:19:44 GMT
Just yesterday there was an older man with his little grandson.. Maybe about 3 yrs.. they were at a small playground with a jungle gym, slide, steps, tubes type thing... The man was talking on his phone but paying little to no attention to the little boy. The boy even walked up to him several times looking up at him. I am yelling at my window, 'PUT THE PHONE DOWN'... The little boy did walk away and out the gate and down the short sidewalk. The man finally noticed and they left shortly. All the kid wanted was some interaction..
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Post by Linda on Sept 17, 2024 16:20:31 GMT
I also think there are a lot of parents who are nervous about their children venturing out into the world, as well That was certainly true when I was raising kids (mine are almost 18, 24, and 32) and more so today. I horrified my peers by allowing my kids to play in the yard by themselves (while I was in the house). I remember dropping DD17 off at Girl Scout events (that weren't intended to be parent-child events) and her being the only kid in her troop without a parent in tow -this was Brownies so 2nd/3rd grade. As a Girl Scout leader taking girls camping (4-6th graders)- I had ones who could ONLY go if mum went too and others that couldn't go because mum wouldn't go and wouldn't send the kid alone ...I always had sufficient chaperones in place so no parents were needed.
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Post by Linda on Sept 17, 2024 16:23:48 GMT
Unpopular opinion alert: it's useless to tell parents to limit screen time in the current context in which we're telling parents to raise their children. The key difference between the childhoods people experienced in the 1960s/1970s/1980s and now is that children had a lot of independence and less supervision. There are a zillion reasons for that, good and bad -- parents take much more interest in connecting with their kids emotionally and supporting their kids in learning emotional and social skills, which is good. We're also much less sanguine about a lot of genuine childhood hazards, like drowning and automobile accidents. The extent to which kids have less independence because of amplifying threats of things like abduction is probably less of a great development. But think about this -- parents used to be very comfortable sending relatively young children out for the day without supervision, and letting them wander after school, whereas now, things that were very normal in the childhoods of boombers and Gen X would garner CPS and police attention. So what that means is kids are at home, in the home, with only their families, a lot more (or they are at structured activities, which is part of why so many kids are in structured activities, by the way). Parents spend *a lot* more time with their kids than they did a few generations ago. It's not that easy for parents to devote all of their time in the home to entertaining their kids, obviously, so you're left with the array of things you can do at home unsupervised. My kids have a *lot* of Lego sets. But this is a lot of why I think it's not that helpful to just say "parents should limit media use" -- a lot of the alternatives that were available when we were young aren't available now. It's also the case that kids 100% should be supported in learning responsible media use, and for many careers, media use is integral. I spend all of my time researching online, not with hard-copy books like I would have back in the day, and promoting my work is now a social media project (I've gotten two book collaboration projects literally off of Twitter). So, I guess I can say at the same time that I don't think overreliance on social media is great, but I think there are explanations for how we are here right now that involve more structural change than telling kids to put their phones away. When I talked with DD24 about the article, she said a lot of this. And she had more freedom growing up and less media than her peers.
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MorningPerson
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,550
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Jul 4, 2014 21:35:44 GMT
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Post by MorningPerson on Sept 17, 2024 16:28:33 GMT
I see a lot of older generations just as intensely focused on their phones as the younger kids, while sitting on a throne of hypocrisy that their childhood was far superior (but what about their adulthood?)This is such a good point, and it kind of hits me between the eyes. How much time am I wasting on my phone when there are so many more valuable things I could be doing? It's not just the kids.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 17, 2024 16:44:53 GMT
epeanymous I don't disagree with much of what you say. I do absolutely see how much the smartphone has changed socialization and the dynamics of raising children has also limited their opportunities to socialize outside the home (there are pluses and minuses to a less free range childhood), but I still don't see how this is an argument against applying limits to usage. If it wasn't raining or there wasn't a seriously below zero day, we were outside, doing all manner of things unsupervised. But on home days, my parents were not entertaining us, we were not engaged with our peers at all, and somehow, we found things to entertain ourselves. There really are a million things kids can do outside of play outside and structured activities. And I think it's terrible that we as a society seem to have lost these hobbies in favor of the cellphone scroll. I can have downtime, disengaged from everyone outside my home and fill my time quite easily. And you are a busy professional woman with a bunch of kids. I am not thinking you are spending 4-7 hours a day on Twitter to make your contacts. The article shows the numbers of hours these kids are online. It may be in 5 minute increments throughout their 16 hours awake, but still, I'm not thinking you are engaging like this. You do have limits. You manage it. That's what I'm thinking needs to happen here. I would also like to see us step back as a society too and scale down our expectations. Like with my boss or my mom. Not only do we need to steer kids into activities that are fulfilling outside of the scroll, we need to empower everyone to be able to push pause on the intrusion that being online all the time is. And again, I really liked your post. Lots of nuances. And refreshing perspective. Good discussion.
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breetheflea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,591
Location: PNW
Jul 20, 2014 21:57:23 GMT
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Post by breetheflea on Sept 17, 2024 17:43:41 GMT
Oldest DD (19) got her phone when she turned 13 I think. She was having to use her school issued I-pad to email me to come pick her up and it was not working out very well (wifi issues.) No interest in social media at all, just like her dad... Second DD (17) got her phone when she started 6th grade maybe? I went to some event on Saturday, and while I was gone DH had decided to take her to the phone store without telling me... She has Facebook only to spy on me that I'm not posting about her and Snap Chat. DS (15) got his phone when he was 12 because from when he gets on the bus at 8, to when school starts (9:30) I'd like to check in and make sure he's alive and not kidnapped. He's not on the bus for 90 minutes, he's sitting at another school waiting for a transfer bus. He has no social media but has problems regulating his screen use... it's always been a problem with him. He also has ADHD. DS (11)no phone. This morning threw a big fat tantrum because he didn't take the trash out yesterday and lost his screen time for the week. The whining the entire way to school this morning... It makes me think maybe the hour a day of screen time he has is too much. There isn't a lot of stuff for kids to do here. In high school I used to hang out in coffee shops, that doesn't work so well when they're mostly drive-ups and it rains 9 months out of the year... I could not find any summer activities for older DS this past summer, all the summer programs seem to stop at age 12, and he is not sporty. I am the social media user in the house (Facebook) and would like to drop Instagram but I have one sister who only uses Instagram and otherwise I'd never see what my nephew and niece look like (they live in Florida, I live in Washington.) I probably do spend too much time on the computer...
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Post by Zee on Sept 17, 2024 18:56:32 GMT
As I look back, I allowed my now 50ish age kids way too much TV time during the day, and I regret it. It was an easy way to keep them occupied so I could get things done. Now I wish I spent more time interacting with them and making memories. The damn telephone drove me nut when they were teens. Now it’s their turn to manage their kids. I must say they have a much better job managing gaming and phone time than I did. No devices M-F was a great start. Each generation seems to have their mine fields to navigate. The lack of time kids are able to focus is doing real damage to their brains. You may feel that way about how you raised your kids but I'm 52 and pretty much raised myself, as did many many others my age. I can assure you most of us don't feel that our lives would have been better if only our mothers had limited our TV time. A large percentage of us has divorced parents and we had to take responsibility for ourselves and younger siblings and that's just the way it was. But I was always very independent ("fiercely" independent, as my mom puts it) and didn't feel neglected or that I needed more parenting than I got. As far as kids today, there is no going back without social media so it's best to help them navigate in a healthy manner as best as we can. Gen Z seems especially good at complaining, I hate to say it. I have an older-GenZ (26). He's quite different from his younger-Millennial sister (30).
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 17, 2024 19:15:38 GMT
Zee I mean this was a survey, so Gen Z opinions were asked. It wasn't just complaining
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Post by melanell on Sept 17, 2024 19:21:53 GMT
Interesting article today with a survey of Gen Zers on technology: (should be a gift link if I've done it right) Gen Z has regretsI have been reading all the books, studies, etc I can get my hands on lately regarding computer based applications and uses. Everything from email to social media. If you need a statistic, I probably have it. I am concerned. I am concerned about things I see with the children. I am concerned about the effects of technology on myself. I see over and over again, people agreeing that technology is out of control and harming them, but I see very few actually making any effort to change that. Not just for the kids, but themselves. I see a lot of older generations just as intensely focused on their phones as the younger kids, while sitting on a throne of hypocrisy that their childhood was far superior (but what about their adulthood?). I just see a lot of talk and no action. Anyone want to weigh in? Well as someone who has always refused to carry a phone on my person at all times, I agree. I have carried a phone in the car since they stopped being a bag you had to plug in. And if I am alone somewhere unfamiliar, and/or if my kids are in school, I carry my phone while out and about. It blows people's minds, but I'm perfectly happy. DH & I do own a smart phone--just one between us, but it's a cheap one that lives in the car. It's only in the last 2 years we've had it. Before then we kept a flip or slide style non-smart phone in the car. Man, for years and years we had the cheapest phone plans imaginable! It was awesome. I paid $5.95 every 3 months for years. Definite nice side-effect of my phone aversion. I agree that older people are just as likely to have questionable phone habits as younger people. I stopped going out to eat with one family member a generation older than me because they wouldn't put the blasted phone down once they got their first smart phone. Before that they were lovely to have a meal with. Afterwards, not so much. Mostly I worry about how the constant social media interaction can be hard on people, especially those already struggling with self-esteem, self-confidence, time management, impulse control, etc. I do think there are some great things about having a smart phone in your pocket. What gets me is how often I notice people not using the phones for those purposes. When people have such an enormous amount of information at thier fingertips all of the time, and they don't access it--that's what blows my mind.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 17, 2024 19:28:17 GMT
I completely agree that it isn't just the kids. I know for myself I am constantly thinking that I should cut down on my social media usage in order to be more productive and reduce stress, but I never seem to do a very good job at that. My kids aren't too bad, surprisingly. I have twin brothers who (along with their wives) have very different expectations for their kids regarding screen time. One is very strict and only allows an hour or so a day of any screens. Their kids do engage in play and are well behaved, but when we are with them I notice that screen time is a very big thing for them. They talk about it way more than my kids and get very upset if they think they have been "cheated" out of their screen time. It's like since it is not allowed it is more of an issue than if they had less restrictions. The other brother has two kids and all they do is play video games in their rooms. Their mom brings their food to their rooms and they did not really interact with my mom and stepdad when they were visiting them from out of state. One does do some sports but the other does not and seemingly doesn't have many other interests. My mom says that me/my kids are in the middle of the two. We have not had any real guidelines or restrictions on screen time over the years, but my kids have not been obsessive about it. They are in sports, go ride bikes and hang out with their friends, do other social things.
I see a lot of kids through my work who are more obsessed with screens and that is about all they do. I think that can be a concern for a lot of reasons, but for most kids I think teaching them responsible use of phones and other screens is better than having strong restrictions (unless the kids are really young). Teaching them respectful use (not having the phone at the dinner table, talking to others instead of being on their phone in social situations, good night time habits, etc) is more effective and helpful as they get older. The phones aren't going anywhere.
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Post by questioning on Sept 17, 2024 19:35:21 GMT
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Post by questioning on Sept 17, 2024 19:55:14 GMT
Not just for the kids, but themselves. I see a lot of older generations just as intensely focused on their phones as the younger kids, One thing I notice about the GenZ around me is they are actively spending less time on social media. The number of them taking up needlepoint, knitting, quilting to avoid screen time seems to be growing. Even Mahjong groups are growing in that age group. The owner of a local needlepoint store said that she hears many of them say they don't want their babies and young children to see them using screens as much, as part of their efforts to give the children less screen time. Mother of GenZ here, and I agree. My young adults play board games, one has resurrected their D&D group, and cook for friends. They also hike and have their preferred gyms. I'm the one reporting to them news about old friends because we moms stay in contact on FB or other social media.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 17, 2024 20:16:54 GMT
For anyone who wants to read about the inside workings of Facebook and Instagram so you can get an idea of why I'm skeptical about any efforts on the platforms parts to stop the ills of social media, I suggest reading Broken Code by Jeff Horwitz.
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Post by Zee on Sept 17, 2024 20:20:50 GMT
Zee I mean this was a survey, so Gen Z opinions were asked. It wasn't just complaining I'm answering with my opinion. I work with a lot of them. They have many wonderful qualities, including being more inclusive and open. But they complain a lot more than older people about things we took for granted, such as valuing a strong work ethic. I'm like, shut up and go to work. That's not always a bad thing, though, because we'd all still be working 16 hours a day at the paper mill from the age of six if no one ever complained about hard work. But at times...it's a little ridiculous and I can't help but feel a lot of them are just too soft. They struggle more with life, responsibility, etc. They feel more hopelessness than we did. I think in part that is because they reinforce this idea amongst themselves. Then again, if I knew I'd be 55 before I could even think about owning a house ever unless my parents gifted me one, I might feel hopeless too. Yet they see other 27 year olds on IG with three kids and perfectly curated homes and feel envy. Interesting discussion, as I really can see both sides.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 17, 2024 20:28:20 GMT
melanell I can raise my hand and tell you that I struggle wholeheartedly with time management (ADHD) and impulse control (bipolar). It is hard for me to manage and navigate technology. I have developed a lot of systems and adaptations but sometimes just as I can one thing in place, it seems like another piece falls off the rails. I do much better at all or nothing than I do with moderation. Like eating for example, I can either cut the sugar completely out of my diet or I can eat 10 cookies twice a day. I will never be a one cookie kind of girl. So this is partly why this issue is so very frustrating for me. Because there are things I can't escape, like work IMs. While I do have neurodivergent issues, I do not think I'm alone in struggling with technology. And these survey responses (in the article) validate that others do too. I just wish there were some guidelines, some suggestions, some solutions. It's why I've been on this huge investigative binge to try to solve my issues.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 17, 2024 20:35:00 GMT
iamkristinl16 I agree with you on teaching responsible use. But I liken this to alcohol. Society says teach responsible use. And many of us actively try to. But some people can't use responsibly. And some people who think they can, still can't. And you can completely abstain without penalty. I don't think we can with technology. And that's just adults. Now put drinks in the hands of children and tell them to do it responsibly. Seems like a big job for parents, government, peers, companies, the media.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Sept 17, 2024 20:50:38 GMT
I have often thought about how much nicer things would be if I could set up a board just for my family members. You can create a private FB group that is secret for just your family members/people you select. I've done that with several groups of friends and it's wonderful!
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Post by mollycoddle on Sept 17, 2024 21:15:10 GMT
I am against devices for young children in general. I saw too many verbally delayed young kids who had access to their parents’ phones use the phone instead of age-appropriate toys. The technology is addictive, and although it is fine for practicing skills(alphabet, numbers, etc)for older kids, it is not good for very young ones. It does not build social skills, for example. That needs to be done in person, with other kids.
I have no expertise on social media, but seeing how nasty it can be for adults, it would seem prudent to limit it for kids. But that is probably impossible in this day and age.
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Post by Linda on Sept 17, 2024 22:59:34 GMT
I agree that older people are just as likely to have questionable phone habits as younger people. I was just at physical therapy and there was another patient there being evaluated - he was making and taking phone calls the entire hour I was there. We have not had any real guidelines or restrictions on screen time over the years, but my kids have not been obsessive about it. They are in sports, go ride bikes and hang out with their friends, do other social things. I did have some restrictions during the school week for mine - especially my oldest - because he had trouble setting limits for himself. But I think the biggest thing we did was provide lots of opportunities for non-screen activities - we did lots of artwork and family games and family puzzles and baking/cooking and playing outside and reading (I read aloud to my kids through middle school) and so on. Now I was a SAHM so I did have more time for that than many parents do and I did homeschool each of them at different times. And that's a privilege not all families have - we sacrificed to make it happen but even so, we were privileged. They didn't have a ton of extracurriculars because nothing here is walkable and we only had one driver (who worked fulltime) but they did do Scouts. My young adults play board games, one has resurrected their D&D group, and cook for friends. They also hike and have their preferred gyms. Mine too - except their preferred gyms are Pokemon Go (so tech related)
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 18, 2024 13:07:29 GMT
I read this article this morning. It's a bit nasty and sarcastic but it's worth reading. Lucky You!
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Post by Zee on Sept 18, 2024 16:57:08 GMT
I really do believe that AI merging with humans will be the end of humanity as we know it. But I can't say I much care. Dinosaurs became birds, we'll become robots. The earth might become a better place, or it might not.
I am absolutely grateful to be able to find my way around a strange city and translate English to Spanish to have a quick conversation with a patient. I like being able to know things I couldn't otherwise, like what song that is and when the next season of whatever starts. I like being able to look up symptoms and get an idea of what a mystery rash might be, what treatment might be best, whatever.
I also get myself out into nature and make time to be creative. I like to be able to instantly snap a pic of a beautiful bug and ID it and share it on IG or with my kid across the country or whatever. It's not all doom and gloom.
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3boysnme
Full Member
Posts: 405
Aug 1, 2023 13:28:26 GMT
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Post by 3boysnme on Sept 18, 2024 17:42:08 GMT
I really do believe that AI merging with humans will be the end of humanity as we know it. But I can't say I much care. Dinosaurs became birds, we'll become robots. The earth might become a better place, or it might not. I am absolutely grateful to be able to find my way around a strange city and translate English to Spanish to have a quick conversation with a patient. I like being able to know things I couldn't otherwise, like what song that is and when the next season of whatever starts. I like being able to look up symptoms and get an idea of what a mystery rash might be, what treatment might be best, whatever. I also get myself out into nature and make time to be creative. I like to be able to instantly snap a pic of a beautiful bug and ID it and share it on IG or with my kid across the country or whatever. It's not all doom and gloom. I definitely agree with the sentence I've bolded. I love all the convenience of having a mini-computer/camera in my back pocket, but I really HATE AI! You can't tell what is fake or real anymore. I understand Photoshop, but the photos posted these days are just TOO perfect. AI might be great for some things, but there's a lot more that I can see being used for unscrupulous acts. There needs to be something in place to counteract that. Someone could use AI to make it look like someone committed a crime. Or something else insidious. Or maybe there already is something that will prevent that sort of thing from happening. Sorry, just my ramblings.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 18, 2024 18:29:21 GMT
I also get myself out into nature and make time to be creative. I think this is the key and I think we are actually seeing a lot of people returning to things that "ground" them and allow them to express themselves. I think this is the whole key of living in harmony with technology. It's not all doom and gloom. I agree. But balance. That's the trick. And sometimes I think some of this is still so new, (at least for me) we haven't yet learned quite how to balance it.
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Post by Zee on Sept 18, 2024 18:43:13 GMT
I also get myself out into nature and make time to be creative. I think this is the key and I think we are actually seeing a lot of people returning to things that "ground" them and allow them to express themselves. I think this is the whole key of living in harmony with technology. It's not all doom and gloom. I agree. But balance. That's the trick. And sometimes I think some of this is still so new, (at least for me) we haven't yet learned quite how to balance it. Last night I went for a walk to collect some wildflowers to dry (in silica) for art projects and I found a deer bone on the side of the road. THIS IS THE SHIT I LIVE FOR! Someone (an animal, not an actual someone) made off with the raccoon skeleton down the hill before it was clean enough to collect the skull though. Bummer.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 20, 2024 19:58:21 GMT
The "rules/etiquette/mores" regarding technology need to be rewritten. And I think everyone knows it but no one is acting. I disagree. My rule is if I pay for it, I choose when and how to use it. If someone else doesn't understand my rule, that's on them. I don't expect anyone to answer me immediately just as I would not expect them to answer a telephone call when I choose to call them. Nothing needs to be written or rewritten. Do you work? Because that's all well and good on your private time but knowledge workers really don't have this level of agency. And you've never been involved in any kind of dinner or visiting where someone has pulled out their phone?
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Post by chaosisapony on Sept 20, 2024 21:58:16 GMT
We have two Gen Z new hires at work now and they are fascinating. I read books on my Kindle, they buy physical books. Neither of them use social media and both prioritize taking trips over most other things I would have spent money on at their age. I have a lot of hopes for younger people to not be as addicted to technology as older folks are. Maybe since they will have grown up with it, it just won't be as big of a deal to them.
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