Poll who do you think won the VP debate?

I thought they were both polished, prepared & professional.
It is too close to call IMO

I don’t think either one of them changed someone’s vote, or even made someone contemplate changing their vote. You could tell Walz lacked debate experience.

Totally agree.. but man. Walz seems to misremember and embellish enough to be on the Trump ticket.

It was very clear one was an Ivy League attorney and one is a “regular” guy. But damn, it was masterful how he put Vance on the spot asking about the winner of the 2020 election and making it clear that 1) Vance is so far up Trumps ass that he won’t step out of “line” and speak the truth. 2) For that reason alone (and in addition to many other reasons) Vance isn’t qualified to be VP.

I hate this election. I am sooooo sick of all these people.

For the benefit of all the Pea’s panties and ass cracks, I am voting for Kamala Harris/Tim Walz. And I HATE myself for it. No need to start in on me.

Also, I agree with PP that this debate did nothing to change my mind. Other than make me even more mad at having to vote for Harris/Walz.

I am firmly in the camp that Vance is a snake/sleaze/weird. But if I wasn’t “informed….” He had a good night. I do think it may have eased some people’s minds that a “sane” person will be a cheeseburger/heartbeat away from being President.

I don’t think Walz would make any better of a President than Trump.

He’s wayyyyyy Pollyanna. Dude. This is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. We aren’t all living in Minnesota.

I guess it depends on what the debate is for, when the debate is, and who is debating. Most times, a VP debate doesn't affect elections. I think that if we weren't less than 40 days till the election, it would have made a bigger deal. Most people, I would think, pretty much know by now who they are voting for. If maybe this debate had happened months ago, lacking debate experience could have really hurt the candidate. Especially if the opponent was a really polished debater. 

When you tell a blatant lie, are called on it, and your response is, "You weren't supposed to fact check me!" you lost the debate in my mind.
At least in this debate, it was not full of blathering on and on and calling people names and making fun of people. But sheesh. Did Vance actually answer even one question? The way he kept blaming everything on immigrants made my skin crawl.

I have a super sweet, lovely, amazing Mexican daughter in law who is doing everything right to live here legally, and the rhetoric coming from Vance and Trump scares the shit out of me.

I feel this was like most "regular" political debates. There was an ebb and flow and strengths and weaknesses for both of them. Some people will be drawn to the style of one over the other. Most think the one that is "their guy's" VP won. I will say that I have seen a couple people who are voting for Trump say that they liked the debate. Of course they think Vance won, but they liked the quality and tone of both men.

I don't think Walz is Pollyanna at all, and I agree that Minnesota is, ya know, part of the US. We aren't a bunch of silly dopes living in a self-contained Walz-land, but it is what he knows and where he has honed his skills. He is definitely not a schmuck. He is a natural with the people. He is smart and authentic, but not a gifted debater. Vance is also smart, but he is incredibly inauthentic and unnatural with people. He is a more gifted debater.


ETA:  Being a good traditional debater is helpful, but I don't think it really matters all that much.  Trump was never a good debater---he was better at commanding a debate and directing the narrative than he is now, but being a "good" traditional debater? No.  He sucks.   Many still think he "won" debates though.  

Why do you HATE, capital letters... yourself?

I don't know if you have ever seen the Lord of the Rings movies, familiar with the books. But for those that don't the central point is there is this McGuffin, a Ring of Power, that corrupts those that come in contact with it, that must be destroyed. One scene, the most powerful elf in the land is offered the ring and after she imagines herself wielding the ring, she backs away, reasserts herself and expresses her relief by congratulating herself for passing the test. "I passed the test." She is relieved, she is content, she is pleased with her reaction when faced with the choice.  She does not get mad at herself, another term you used to describe yourself.

We aren't a land filled with magic, dwarves, orcs and elves. But this is one of those situations where as humans we are being tested. Will people recognize that their preferred style of government is not on the ballot? One party has turned itself over to the sliver of the population that has existed long before now, that has typically been rejected, who desires authoritarian power. Will people recognize that in situations like this, their vote does not mean they support a candidate or their platform but they have assessed a clear and present danger from one side that MUST be rejected and are actively participating in that rejection. Is your vote based on recognizing not only different levels of dangers but different types of danger? Then shouldn't you be congratulating yourself for recognizing that democracy, human rights are at stake. In the recent GA decision regarding abortion, the judge stated "women aren't community property." It's 2024, that this has to even be stated because enough words have been spent, some by the GOPs nominees for President and VP, that makes it not so certain that this is a universal thought. In the United States of America. Isn't separating yourself from your typical circle, and going outside of your comfort zone characteristics of independent thought, backed up through action? Is that worthy of HATE, capital letters?

Shouldn't your hate be directed externally, instead of internally? Are you letting yourself down, or did others fail you long before your ballot is cast?

ETA:  This is what I meant in another post about some people's identity being so tied to political parties, even when their rights are on the line.  Some people will not even then, consider breaking away.  If you are a person who is choosing to be one who does, that doesn't make you worthy of self-hatred.  

What in the hell are you talking about?

You don’t even know me to make assumptions about my circle, going outside myself or assigning my decision to independent thought.

What the actual hell???

Btw- in 2018 (while Trump was President) Medtronic (one of Walz’s MN star companies), outsourced 4 entire product lines to South America. Several years earlier, the acquired Covidien and moved their headquarters FROM MN to Ireland.

I’m sick of being lied to. I’m sick of twisted and half truths. And I’m REALLY sick of politicians being given passes telling full out lies- and just because the other guy is a “bad guy” doesn’t make it ok.

Keep telling yourself that. None of these people have the best interests of hard working and contributing Americans in mind. And all the nauseating “blame it on immigrants” and “golly gee- we had a plan (finally… that we don’t have a clue if it would be useful- Medtronic was convinced they would see savings in two years on the product lines they moved to Mexico…. I know for a fact that 4 years later they were still bleeding money due to that decision) just gets old. The pandering, the catch phrases, the rhetoric. It just gets old.

And no- I didn’t bother with the Lord of the Rings Trilogy. Too busy operating in the real world, thanks.

I am interested to hear why you are even more mad at "having" to vote for Harris/Walz.

I think this is a terrible comparison.  Walz and Trump are not evenly remotely close.

Setting aside politics, Walz actually knows how to govern and would surround himself with experienced, intelligent people.  Aside from a few members of his nutty family, no one is saying he's a danger to democracy, he's unfit to serve or he's not qualified.

Trump is only in it for himself.  He used his position to line his own pockets with millions of dollars. A second term would be even worse.

Trump will surround himself with people whose only qualification is their loyalty to him (Jared and Ivanka, for example).  If elected to a second term, it will be even worse. There will be no guard rails.  The Supreme Court essentially gave him immunity.  He will use the Justice Department, FBI, IRS and other departments to go after anyone who speaks out against him.   40 of his close former advisors spoke against him and refuse to endorse him.  

Jan 6 alone should disqualify Trump from ever holding office again.  

Trump himself has even said he will be a dictator and you will never have to vote again.

Trump has said he will prosecute "at the maximum level" Google for showing bad stories about him.  Conservatives losing their minds over what they consider censorship from social media should pay attention.  Trump will use the government to censor media unfavorable to him.  Echoes of 1930's Germany.  He refers to the media as fake news, the enemy of the people, lamestream media.  He calls journalists scum, the absolute worst etc.  He's said the press should be thoroughly scrutinized and pay a big price. Bannon and Patel, advisors to Trump have openly talked about going after the press. A second Trump term would be a war on free press.  Vance is just as bad.  He asked the Merrick Garland and Anthony Blinken to investigate Robert Kagan for insurrection and an attempt to bring about civil war.  What did Kagan do?  Kagan, a Republican who left the party because of Trump, wrote an op-ed in The Washington Post and warned about the dangers of a 2nd Trump presidency.

Have you read any of Project 2025?  Trump didn't write it, but it was written for him and he will take a lot of the actions.  Eliminate the Departments of Education, Commerce, NOAA, FEMA etc.  He will do everything he can to destroy the federal government. Deport 11 million people, even some here legally.  Deporting people and imposing tariffs will most likely send the economy into a recession.  Trump would sign a national abortion ban.  Restrict the use of abortion drugs.  I know I said to set aside politics, but it's really hard to ignore Trump's own plans and all of the terrible plans conservatives have written for him.

Not to mention, Trump is obviously suffering some kind of cognitive decline.  He's slurring words, forgetting words, making up words etc.

Trump has also made to clear to Americans and everyone around the world that he can be bought for a price.

It's not exaggerating to say he will upset world peace and likely start World War 3.  He will withdraw the US from NATO and allow Putin to take over parts of Ukraine, if not the entire country.  And who knows what kind of disastrous situation he could create in the Middle East.  He will only make the situation there worse.

A DUI and lying about when he was in China or his service record don't even remotely equate to all of the terrible things that Trump has said or done or will do.  Walz is not a danger to democracy, he will not be an authoritarian or a dictator.  He will not try to overturn the results of an election. He will not use the federal government to seek revenge.  He will not use the federal government or his position to line his own pockets.  He has not been convicted on 34 felony counts or indicted on 90 additional charges.

I agree with this.  But 1995 is almost 30 years ago, not 20 (how is that possible?!) lol. I also don't see what else needs to be set straight about his service record.  That has already been addressed and I have read from a number of service members that his situation is not unusual.  

Is Walz perfect? No.  But I strongly disagree that he doesn't have the good of the people and the country in mind.  He seems to be a very genuine person and DOES care about and for people.  I don't know how people get anything other than that when they listen to him talk or see what he has done in politics. 

Walz lied yet again about some ish that shouldn’t even have to matter.. but it seems to be a serious pattern. And instead of own it, he got flustered and annoyed at being called on it. If it was that meaningful to him, as he tried to sell it… he should have known whether he was there or not. Just like all the lies that come out of Trump’s mouth, the lies that came out of Hillary’s mouth (“she landed under sniper fire.” Bullshit.) Lies and more lies.

Still no one offered any information about the “huge issue” of child care. Really? They keep saying it’s an issue. It’s an issue for the American people.. but none of these politicians want to actually talk about it. Walz.. well, ya know… we will throw some (taxpayer) money at it. Not enough. We know that. Oh, and knowing that if you increase the demand (money available) but not the supply (root cause….) it’ll just drive it up while draining more money out of the pockets of actual taxpayers… Now back to sob story about immigrants.

Same thing with housing. Yay. Tax cut/rebate whatever.. I guess I’ll just be paying $25k more for my house. I have access to the GI Bill loan Walz mentioned. Sure! Buy your house for no money down- if you can get it/ chosen by seller. Those VA loans are rife with obstacles and regulations (not a bad thing) and often closing doesn’t happen, so sellers (especially in a tight market) avoid them. Oh… plus you have lots more PMI (which hasn’t been tax deductible since tax year 2021. As short sighted and bad in the long run as student loans. Hurts a lot more when you are in a city where the “starter homes” if you can find one, start at 400-500k plus. Yeyyyyy keep interest rates super high, no plan for supply that has been down by several million for the last 15 years… throw (taxpayer) money at it! Back to sob story about immigrants

Same thing with groceries. Medical. Drugs, and even

Preemptive strike on Iran (no answers.) Iran is on the cusp (literally a week or max two) of being a nuclear power. Why? Trump bad policy by both the Trump and Biden administration. Trump (ended JCPOA participation because he felt it was beneficial to Iran financially. Why has it taken the Biden administration 3.5 years (and counting!) to actually address this issue?

Harris isn’t Biden. Period. And it was annoying as hell that Vance kept referring to her administration as if she were president. And the phrase “border czar” sets my teeth on edge. Walz kept going back to the damn border bill that was squashed. In part (but not always) because Vance kept going back to illegals (yes- I said that.) But no one wanted to talk about exactly what that deportation looks like. I see splitting of families (due to deportation) to be the choice of the parents. Just because the kid is a US citizen doesn’t mean they are stuck here and can’t travel with their parents to where they (parents) are legally supposed to be.

Literally a less chaotic and better strategy of not me-ism - let me distract…” look how bad he other guy is” than actual ideas than the last Presidential debate.

Why am I “mad?” Neither candidate represents me.
Neither candidate even comes close to representing me.

I believe abortion is healthcare and shouldn’t be legislated-at all.
Period.

And right now- that’s the only reason I’m voting. And yes- it pisses me off to know that I am voting for candidates that have no problem flushing all my efforts to remove myself from generational poverty down the toilet, to pay for the poor choices of others.

I am furious that the Republican Party has allowed themselves to be the party of Trump. That the Republican Party has pushed out, actively or by decision not to associate- many leaders I could get behind. Nikki Haley was a fantastic option and these damn delusional Trumpers voted for a felonious asshole instead. And here we are.

Just picked you out of the Pea pile.. and since I brought up the almost DUI, it follows that you are directing at me.

Nitpicky is pointing out he didn’t get the DUI he should have gotten because he had no issue benefiting from the good ol boy version of law enforcement. Be better informed.

Nitpicky is pointing out that there are a ton of people who are voting for Harris/Walz (and only slightly happier that they don’t have to vote for Biden) and it’s not “close” or about Hillary.

I would love to see Trump in prison. Have no intention of voting for him.