Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 21:45:23 GMT
In my life I've only known 3 other people who were so bend on "understanding" and "can't follow the logic" All three were admitted alcoholics. Your inability to see a gray area has me seriously considering the likelihood you are an alcoholic. Flavorings were never meant to consumption in quantities to give a buzz or relax someone. Beer and wines are. Desserts and other foods are developed to market alcohol thats main purpose is for drinking. I don't want my child developing a taste for beer/wine. That is not hard to understand unless you have a drinking issue and feel everyone must drink in order to make your consumption seem more normal. Ok thanks for the head up I didn't realize that having wine in my beef stew made me a closeted alcoholic!! For what it's worth my normal consumption of wine is usually a glass with a meal maybe once every couple of week if that. I never touch spirits or beer for the simple fact that I don't like the taste of it. I do like beer in cooking but that is there to enhance the flavours of other ingredients. If you can distinctly taste the wine or beer in your cooking then you've used to much. It's there to enhance not overpower! No. You did not read what I wrote. I did NOT say having wine in your beef stew made you a closet alcoholic. Drinking a daily glass of wine does not either. 1) It is the inability to understand there are people who don't AND 2) the inability to understand there are gray areas, like flavorings, that seem inconsistent. 3) Then demanding that if anyone uses flavorings like vanilla or peppermint but otherwise abstains from alcohol are somehow being difficult... Those are the points that will make me question your relationship with alcohol as being unhealthy.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Mar 18, 2015 21:49:57 GMT
not difficult, volt, but confusing. moveablefeast actually did give a more full explanation, although I personally still don't understand the distinction.
How can you go from 'we genuinely don't understand what you're saying; please say it a different way' right to 'unhealthy relationship with alcohol'?? That's a pretty big leap, there...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 21:52:49 GMT
Ok thanks for the head up I didn't realize that having wine in my beef stew made me a closeted alcoholic!! For what it's worth my normal consumption of wine is usually a glass with a meal maybe once every couple of week if that. I never touch spirits or beer for the simple fact that I don't like the taste of it. I do like beer in cooking but that is there to enhance the flavours of other ingredients. If you can distinctly taste the wine or beer in your cooking then you've used to much. It's there to enhance not overpower! No. You did not read what I wrote. I did NOT say having wine in your beef stew made you a closet alcoholic. Drinking a daily glass of wine does not either. 1) It is the inability to understand there are people who don't AND 2) the inability to understand there are gray areas, like flavorings, that seem inconsistent. 3) Then demanding that if anyone uses flavorings like vanilla or peppermint but otherwise abstains from alcohol are somehow being difficult... Those are the points that will make me question your relationship with alcohol as being unhealthy. But you can also say that using wine & beer in cooking is a flavouring too. The wine,the beer,the whiskey AND the vanilla are all classed as alcohol. No one is questioning the reason why people DRINK alcohol,they are questioning the reason why some alcoholic flavouring are more acceptable than others.
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Dalai Mama
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La Pea Boheme
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Mar 18, 2015 21:53:31 GMT
Huh? Hops aren't an intoxicating substance neither is cream. I just can't follow this logic. Vanilla extract is actually on the lower side of some - Peppermint is almost 93% alcohol - you're saying because the peppermint isn't intoxicating that would be okay? And to the poster above - I am well aware that you can buy non-alcoholic vanilla - but most don't, and I was trying to understand the logic of the differentiation. . And as an aside, most imitation vanilla is also usually made with alcohol (they just use an artificial flavoring to substitute for real vanilla, but it's still alcohol based. Although again, one CAN buy it non-alcoholic). In my life I've only known 3 other people who were so bend on "understanding" and "can't follow the logic" All three were admitted alcoholics. Your inability to see a gray area has me seriously considering the likelihood you are an alcoholic. Flavorings were never meant to consumption in quantities to give a buzz or relax someone. Beer and wines are. Desserts and other foods are developed to market alcohol thats main purpose is for drinking. I don't want my child developing a taste for beer/wine. That is not hard to understand unless you have a drinking issue and feel everyone must drink in order to make your consumption seem more normal. She doesn't agree with your decidedly puritanical viewpoint and you accuse her of being an alcoholic? Are you fucking kidding me?
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cakediva
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Making the world a sweeter place one cake at a time!
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Jun 26, 2014 11:53:40 GMT
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Post by cakediva on Mar 18, 2015 21:54:29 GMT
The part that I am still struggling with is one of the MOST common baking ingredients is a minimum of 30% of alcohol by volume (vanilla extract). I just looked up the recipe for my ultimate vanilla cupcake frosting. 2 teaspoons of extract for 12 cupcakes. As the extract has 2-3x the amount of alcohol as Bailey's they're actually HIGHER in alcohol content than the Bailey's ones. I completely understand the perception issue - it's essentially alcohol marketing to kids, which I totally understand a parent being against. BUT from a purely alcohol standpoint I still don't get it - most baked goods have trace amounts of alcohol in them. I guess I shouldn't be surprised though. I was reading the comments about a chicken dish once that called for a cup of white wine. A commenter asked if she could substitute Marsala for the white wine as she doesn't drink alcohol. How substituting something with twice the amount of alcohol is better doesn't make sense to me, but clearly did to her. But how many people are actually using REAL vanilla, instead of the artificial kind? That style is way less expensive, and has no alcohol in it.
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Post by gritzi on Mar 18, 2015 21:58:57 GMT
So very true! I was raised in an ultra strict, religious home. My parents would have been beyond livid had those cupcakes been brought in & served to myself & other students. We weren't allowed to dine at restaurants that served alcohol. So, I know an appointment would have been made with at least the teacher & principal, if not the superintendent.
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Deleted
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Apr 27, 2024 0:58:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 22:01:22 GMT
In my life I've only known 3 other people who were so bend on "understanding" and "can't follow the logic" All three were admitted alcoholics. Your inability to see a gray area has me seriously considering the likelihood you are an alcoholic. Flavorings were never meant to consumption in quantities to give a buzz or relax someone. Beer and wines are. Desserts and other foods are developed to market alcohol thats main purpose is for drinking. I don't want my child developing a taste for beer/wine. That is not hard to understand unless you have a drinking issue and feel everyone must drink in order to make your consumption seem more normal. She doesn't agree with your decidedly puritanical viewpoint and you accuse her of being an alcoholic? Are you fucking kidding me? Nope. I'm not kidding. The only people I've had push the issue like she has have all be self admitted alcoholics. that is MY experience. Everyone else has always been able to see/understand the shades of gray.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Mar 18, 2015 22:08:02 GMT
my take on your response, volt, is be that you don't seem to know very many people. There are billions of people in the world who probably couldn't follow your logic with this and not all of them can be alcoholics.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Mar 18, 2015 22:46:55 GMT
People are forgetting that in the cupcake thread, they cupcakes would be for her daughter and a few friends, not the entire class. That, to me, makes it different - though I`d agree that in order to allow even a few underage friends to have one, you need to check with the parents.
In our district, this wouldn`t be an issue. A teacher wouldn`t think to ask questions about a student having a cupcake in their lunch that was sent from home.
When I was a kid, we were served things like spaghetti sauce with wine in it and we were allowed beer battered fish.
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Post by scrapsotime on Mar 18, 2015 23:15:51 GMT
My only reason for not sending cupcakes made with alcohol is the zero tolerance policies that schools have now. If the school found out they were Bailey's cupcakes I'm pretty sure the response would be over the top. Children have been suspended for some of the dumbest things since zero tolerance polices have been implemented.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 23:19:09 GMT
People are forgetting that in the cupcake thread, they cupcakes would be for her daughter and a few friends, not the entire class. That, to me, makes it different - though I`d agree that in order to allow even a few underage friends to have one, you need to check with the parents. In our district, this wouldn`t be an issue. A teacher wouldn`t think to ask questions about a student having a cupcake in their lunch that was sent from home. When I was a kid, we were served things like spaghetti sauce with wine in it and we were allowed beer battered fish. Nothing was said in the OP about it being just for her daughter and a few friends. It was taking the left overs without any specification on how many constitute left over.
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Mar 18, 2015 23:26:02 GMT
If by 'seeing shades of grey' you mean following your logic, apparently I'm an alcoholic too.
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quiltz
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Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on Mar 18, 2015 23:29:20 GMT
If by 'seeing shades of grey' you mean following your logic, apparently I'm an alcoholic too. I guess I am one too. I like to put a can filled 1/2 of beer under the whole chicken while bbqing.
Guess I shouldn't use that meat in chicken salad sandwiches. Someone might become drunk or an alcoholic by eating a sandwich, which, by the way has yeast in the bread - bread made with yeast that has been fermented. O the horrors!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 23:29:30 GMT
my take on your response, volt, is be that you don't seem to know very many people. There are billions of people in the world who probably couldn't follow your logic with this and not all of them can be alcoholics. ahhmm.. I spend 20 years as a military wife, the six years before that at a large university and as a teacher's wife. Those aren't life styles that go well with not knowing people. The circle of people I knew radically changed every year. I don't isolate myself. I've also not really felt the desire to make a logical presentation. The question was simply would you allow your kids to eat this. And the answer is no. Everyone I've run into has been able to accept that answer without me having to make a logical presentation that covers every area they see as being at odd with my "don't fee that to my kid". I don't want you to feed my kids stew with wine, beer battered fish, or a cupcake with guinness/baileys. Only four people out of a potential thousand in my life have ever made it an issue that needs to be logical. 3 who were admitted alcoholics and Darcy. THe op of the other thread said nothing about the cupcake being in her daughters lunch. It sounds much more like a class share type of thing for a class party than lunch of 2 or 3 good friends that you know.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Mar 19, 2015 0:17:19 GMT
my take on your response, volt, is be that you don't seem to know very many people. There are billions of people in the world who probably couldn't follow your logic with this and not all of them can be alcoholics. ahhmm.. I spend 20 years as a military wife, the six years before that at a large university and as a teacher's wife. Those aren't life styles that go well with not knowing people. The circle of people I knew radically changed every year. I don't isolate myself. I've also not really felt the desire to make a logical presentation. The question was simply would you allow your kids to eat this. And the answer is no. Everyone I've run into has been able to accept that answer without me having to make a logical presentation that covers every area they see as being at odd with my "don't fee that to my kid". I don't want you to feed my kids stew with wine, beer battered fish, or a cupcake with guinness/baileys. Only four people out of a potential thousand in my life have ever made it an issue that needs to be logical. 3 who were admitted alcoholics and Darcy. THe op of the other thread said nothing about the cupcake being in her daughters lunch. It sounds much more like a class share type of thing for a class party than lunch of 2 or 3 good friends that you know. Your continued pushing of the theory of me being an alcoholic just makes you look foolish. I asked for the logic behind different alcohols being treated differently for those with supposed "zero tolerance" views who actually consumed alcohol. I suppose it's the classic case of if you can't support your theory, attack the opponent.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Mar 19, 2015 0:19:38 GMT
People are forgetting that in the cupcake thread, they cupcakes would be for her daughter and a few friends, not the entire class. That, to me, makes it different - though I`d agree that in order to allow even a few underage friends to have one, you need to check with the parents. In our district, this wouldn`t be an issue. A teacher wouldn`t think to ask questions about a student having a cupcake in their lunch that was sent from home. When I was a kid, we were served things like spaghetti sauce with wine in it and we were allowed beer battered fish. Nothing was said in the OP about it being just for her daughter and a few friends. It was taking the left overs without any specification on how many constitute left over. Perhaps you missed this on the first page of the thread 20 hours ago: I made St. Patrick's day cupcakes for a party tonight and had some leftovers. My daughter asked to bring a couple into school tomorrow to share with her friends. I said no, my husband said I was silly as there wasn't enough alcohol in them to bother anyone.
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Post by chaosisapony on Mar 19, 2015 0:23:21 GMT
I generally don't cook with alcohol. Not because of any actual objection, I just don't care for the taste of beer or wine so I don't keep it in the house and I'm not going to buy a bunch just to use a cup or so in a recipe. I just substitute broth. I don't even particularly like the taste of a beer batter, I prefer other batters.
I didn't know that vanilla extract had alcohol in it. You learn something new everyday.
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quiltz
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,692
Location: CANADA
Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on Mar 19, 2015 0:25:28 GMT
In my life I've only known 3 other people who were so bend on "understanding" and "can't follow the logic" All three were admitted alcoholics. Your inability to see a gray area has me seriously considering the likelihood you are an alcoholic. Flavorings were never meant to consumption in quantities to give a buzz or relax someone. Beer and wines are. Desserts and other foods are developed to market alcohol thats main purpose is for drinking. I don't want my child developing a taste for beer/wine. That is not hard to understand unless you have a drinking issue and feel everyone must drink in order to make your consumption seem more normal. How does it work when you eat out? How do you know the exact ingredients in everything that you consume.
One ounce of an alcoholic drink in an entire dessert will not make anyone drunk if you eat one serving.
When cooking with beer, it is usually the intensity of the malt flavouring that enhances the flavour of the meat. You can use the no-beer that is sold at the grocery store to get the malty flavouring.
Do you insist on the entire list of ingredients for all of your medications, especially liquid medications.
Yes, I would like to know the Mormon stance on alcohol, as there are very few Mormons in the area where I live.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Mar 19, 2015 0:35:05 GMT
I generally don't cook with alcohol. Not because of any actual objection, I just don't care for the taste of beer or wine so I don't keep it in the house and I'm not going to buy a bunch just to use a cup or so in a recipe. I just substitute broth. I don't even particularly like the taste of a beer batter, I prefer other batters. I didn't know that vanilla extract had alcohol in it. You learn something new everyday. I've actually found more people than not- don't realize it. It was the only time I've ever ventured into facebook controversy (unlike here, I do not argue, debate or really discuss anything on facebook). A friend posted asking for teething advice, and someone recommended rubbing vanilla extract on the baby's gums. I pointed out that it was akin to our grandparents rubbing whiskey on a baby's gum and KABOOM. It was quite ugly - and it was amazing how many people chimed in and told me how wrong I was and that it was 100% PURE VANILLA EXTRACT. And for those who keep pushing imitation as an alternative. Read the label carefully, most imitation are also alcohol based.
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Post by anonrefugee on Mar 19, 2015 0:48:11 GMT
I admire RefuPea stamina on this one... catching up on the two threads has made me a little dizzy.
And now this "Not-An-Alcoholic" Pea craves frosted cupcakes and wine.
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quiltz
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,692
Location: CANADA
Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on Mar 19, 2015 0:52:26 GMT
I have been sustaining myself by eating my Guinness cupcakes with Bailey's frosting today.
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Post by freecharlie on Mar 19, 2015 0:58:49 GMT
Hmmm, I can't be the only one who bakes with homemade vanilla instead of the extract crap?
Don't send youe kid to my house to be fed if you have a list of requirements
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Grom Pea
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 27, 2014 0:21:07 GMT
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Post by Grom Pea on Mar 19, 2015 1:13:39 GMT
In just curious for those who want to be the devils advocate for those who don't want any alcohol, do you also argue with vegans about how they must get a little bit of meat or milk in their food somewhere? I think volt again just wanted you to respect her decision as a non alcohol consumer and for some reason some people really have trouble with that. Personally I'm one of those people who dumps rum on her cakes after they're baked but if someone asked me I'd tell them and wouldn't question their decision to not consume it.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 27, 2024 0:58:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2015 1:18:15 GMT
In my life I've only known 3 other people who were so bend on "understanding" and "can't follow the logic" All three were admitted alcoholics. Your inability to see a gray area has me seriously considering the likelihood you are an alcoholic. Flavorings were never meant to consumption in quantities to give a buzz or relax someone. Beer and wines are. Desserts and other foods are developed to market alcohol thats main purpose is for drinking. I don't want my child developing a taste for beer/wine. That is not hard to understand unless you have a drinking issue and feel everyone must drink in order to make your consumption seem more normal. How does it work when you eat out? How do you know the exact ingredients in everything that you consume.
One ounce of an alcoholic drink in an entire dessert will not make anyone drunk if you eat one serving.
When cooking with beer, it is usually the intensity of the malt flavouring that enhances the flavour of the meat. You can use the no-beer that is sold at the grocery store to get the malty flavouring.
Do you insist on the entire list of ingredients for all of your medications, especially liquid medications.
Yes, I would like to know the Mormon stance on alcohol, as there are very few Mormons in the area where I live.
Since my dh is actually ALLERGIC to alcohol yes we have to ask when dining out and be very cautious. It makes him very sick. And absolutely we have it in his medical charts to not have an alcohol base medication. This is really not that uncommon. BTW near-beer still has an alcohol content, so that is a no-go for him as well.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Mar 19, 2015 1:21:28 GMT
In just curious for those who want to be the devils advocate for those who don't want any alcohol, do you also argue with vegans about how they must get a little bit of meat or milk in their food somewhere? I think volt again just wanted you to respect her decision as a non alcohol consumer and for some reason some people really have trouble with that. Personally I'm one of those people who dumps rum on her cakes after they're baked but if someone asked me I'd tell them and wouldn't question their decision to not consume it. I think you're utterly misunderstanding the questioning. If my vegan friend ate beef broth, I'd be confused and would probably ask why they eat beef broth when they are a vegan. I have no problem with anyone abstaining from anything - I was inquiring on why one would abstain from one type of alcohol and not another and learned that I was an alcoholic.
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Post by moveablefeast on Mar 19, 2015 2:14:57 GMT
In just curious for those who want to be the devils advocate for those who don't want any alcohol, do you also argue with vegans about how they must get a little bit of meat or milk in their food somewhere? I think volt again just wanted you to respect her decision as a non alcohol consumer and for some reason some people really have trouble with that. Personally I'm one of those people who dumps rum on her cakes after they're baked but if someone asked me I'd tell them and wouldn't question their decision to not consume it. I think you're utterly misunderstanding the questioning. If my vegan friend ate beef broth, I'd be confused and would probably ask why they eat beef broth when they are a vegan. I have no problem with anyone abstaining from anything - I was inquiring on why one would abstain from one type of alcohol and not another and learned that I was an alcoholic. I don't think you're an alcoholic, but I do think you're being pretty obtuse. If I'm a religious person who interprets the scripture's injunction not to be drunk on wine but to be filled with the Spirit to prohibit drunkenness at all, then I may take that particularly conservatively and say that there is no "safe" amount of alcohol to be consumed whilst still avoiding drunkenness. Therefore I would decide to avoid alcoholic beverages (and probably other substances that have the possibility or likelihood of altering my judgment or other functions). But if you put a bottle of rum and a bottle of vanilla extract (about the same alcohol content) side by side on the table, I would know they were both alcohol products, but I would know there were some key differences. For example, for vanilla extract to be taxed and sold as a flavoring agent in the grocery store and not as liqueur in the package store, it has to be held to a manufacturing standard that makes it unpalatable for straight consumption. It is designed, intended, and manufactured only as a flavoring agent, and while a few people do manage to drink enough of it to get soused, it is specifically designed to avoid that potentiality. The bottle of rum, on the other hand, is manufactured as an alcoholic beverage, which if consumed as normally consumed can readily lead to drunkenness, and therefore would fall outside of my boundary on this. As a result, I could very well use the alcohol-containing flavoring agent vanilla as it was intended, with no challenge to my belief system at all, because it does not, in intent or in normal possibility, pose a risk of drunkenness. I could not use the rum as it was intended without posing an inherent risk of drunkenness. Like I said, I drink and I don't have a problem with it. But I know people who don't for this reason, and I respect that. I don't see it as inherently contradictory, because it's one of those situational personal ethics matters that doesn't fit neatly in black-and-white categories all the time.
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Post by pb on Mar 19, 2015 2:22:54 GMT
Slight thread jack: one of our finer dinning establishments has a wonderful dessert, a float made with lemon and raspberry sorbets and vodka (clearly labeled on the menu). It is heavenly but I was very glad I wasn't the driver. Then again my dad calls me a cheap date - it doesn't take much to get me sizzled.
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Post by CarolT on Mar 19, 2015 2:27:42 GMT
I want wine, cupcakes, beer battered fish, and boeuf bourguignon now... thanks a lot!
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,939
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Jun 26, 2014 23:17:22 GMT
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Post by LeaP on Mar 19, 2015 2:48:00 GMT
Another hijack: Waaaahhhh! I'm in Canada and beer/wine/spirits are expensive so I have cut back on using them in cooking. I have been thinking about buying the non-alcoholic wine, but I'm too scared it will be sweet.
I also bought my daughter a Bailey's/Guinness cupcake this morning in Seattle. I had no idea they have become so popular.
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Post by AussieMeg on Mar 19, 2015 3:02:37 GMT
Risotto without wine is just cheesy rice. And the problem with that is..... ? LOVE me some cheesy rice!! I usually don't use wine in my risotto because DD doesn't like the taste. She specifically asks me not to add wine to it. Personally I prefer it with wine (even though I am a non drinker). Most of the time I make Thai green or red curry risotto that doesn't need wine because there are so many other flavors going on.
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