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Post by jumperhop on May 20, 2015 1:15:55 GMT
I spent 15 bucks on sushi today I probably should have donated that money to charity. I have been looking at houses in the 400k range maybe I should look at a mobile home instead and donate the difference. jen This is not even remotely the same thing and you bloody well know it. All I am saying is that we don't know what they do for charity. Jen
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Post by stampbooker on May 20, 2015 1:24:27 GMT
Well like I said on page 2, people are always going to find things they don't like, and lump people together unfairly. All I can do is live the life that I believe God wants me to live. This means having a kind heart, an open mind, and being generous to those in need. If some people don't like that, too bad, so sad for them. I'm just going to be me. Like Patrick Swayze said, nobody puts scrappin mama in a box. I don't think it is unfair to assume you believe in the bible when you claim to be a christian. What is unfair is to expect others to know which parts you are going to cherry pick when engaging in a conversation. Don't want lumped in with Christians, don't call yourself one. It's also unfair to assume you know what is being cherry picked when you are not an expert on what the Bible teaches. Julie
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Post by jumperhop on May 20, 2015 1:32:14 GMT
Well, I would agree with that too, but that is not what I said. What I said was church (not salvation) was about the relationships we have with other believers (not God). What does the Bible say? Does it say to go to a for services for weekly help? No, never. It tells us to encourage each other every day so that we will not be hardened by sin. (Hebrews 3:13) That is how we make sure we are on the right path. It has nothing to do with religious services. It is about discipleship, relationships.
tried to quote a thousand times. I see thanks for sharing. jen
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on May 20, 2015 1:43:31 GMT
I read on the FAQ that it's in/near Kansas city. It's just gross. It's a Methodist church, which I somehow find surprising. I agree!
The mega churches I have seen are non-demonminational Christian or Protestant. I have never seen a Catholic mega church. There are a few big ones in Maryland and they are Protestant I think. One is Methodist Episcipalian. We have a Catholic church near us we 10,000 members, but the church is not overly large at all.
There is a Mega Catholic Church quite near where this church is being built, and interestingly a large islamic center being built near by.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on May 20, 2015 1:50:24 GMT
Wow. Just think if they'd only built an 80 million dollar building, 13 million could've gone to their wonderful "outreach." What if they'd spent 40 million? How many people could've been helped? my thought exactly. For half of what they are spending they could build just as big.. perhaps not as fancy of a church and they could help the poor! On the Facebook page they say they plan on raising 200 million in the next 10 years after the build the church... HEY how about you have raised half that NOW! This just reminds me of the story of Jesus and the temple... I honestly can not envision that he would support this type of building at all.
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Post by monklady123 on May 20, 2015 2:04:47 GMT
Wow. Just think if they'd only built an 80 million dollar building, 13 million could've gone to their wonderful "outreach." What if they'd spent 40 million? How many people could've been helped? It all depends on what goes into the facility and what they will do with it. Again, to harp on McLean Bible Church, whose facility probably cost 2-3 times that in the OP, they use the large state-of-the-art meeting rooms and worship halls to hold a free of charge Accessibility Summet - which is a weekend long conference for teachers, care-providers, families of, and people with disabilities to attend. They have numerous workshops EACH YEAR and serve many many many in the community. Temple Grandin was the keynote speaker a few years ago and she took a tour of Jill's House after her talk. It just so happened that my boys were there that weekend for respite care. We had just watched the Temple Grandin movie with Claire Danes a month earlier and my higher functioning son then did all the research he could on Temple. This is the child who was a in self-contained autism classroom in his early elementary years, yet starting in kindergarten would help the teachers with their computer issues. Anyhow, Temple was touring the facility - no one introduced her to the kids, because they didn't think they'd have a clue, but ds#1 ran up to her and said, "You're Temple Grandin!" To which, according to Jill's House staff, she didn't show any surprise, but simply said "Yes, I am." Here is a picture of Temple and my son: One simply does not know by the price tag of a building whether or not a large number people will be helped there at no cost to them. Whether or not it will be "worth it." It simply isn't a fair judgement to make. Show me a balance sheet of what is spent on the facility and what is spent on outreach, and then make a decision. Elaine, very cool about meeting her and that your son recognized her. -- I have my own theological disagreements with McLean Bible (for ex., they preach the prosperity gospel that so many mega churches preach), but no one can argue that they don't do good things with their money. Jill's House is one of those. I knew about it even before you posted because one of the teachers in the self-contained autism room at the school where I sub a lot mentioned it to me one day. So when you first posted about it I said "hey, I know that place!" Anyway, that graphic a few pages back was very interesting -- the one with the housing/salary of various mega-church pastors, and quotes from them. I have no idea how Lon Solomon lives but clearly he believes in using some of his church's assets for a wonderful ministry.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
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Post by raindancer on May 20, 2015 2:24:06 GMT
I don't think it is unfair to assume you believe in the bible when you claim to be a christian. What is unfair is to expect others to know which parts you are going to cherry pick when engaging in a conversation. Don't want lumped in with Christians, don't call yourself one. It's also unfair to assume you know what is being cherry picked when you are not an expert on what the Bible teaches. Julie LOL. Really? This is such a bizarre reply. Does your bible teach that you get to cherry pick what suits you then? Because if not your argument is absurd. I wasn't "cherry" picking, I was showing you where in your bible it said stuff about not tithing being stealing, and stealing being a commandment, and breaking commandments will get you a one way ticket to hell. Not only is that pretty much the opposite of cherry picking, I thought that was pretty basic knowledge of anyone with even the most basic understanding of christianity. (Which I exceed considering I was one for years, still not a theologian by any stretch, but still not just some random person with no understanding at all)
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on May 20, 2015 2:34:07 GMT
Wow. Just think if they'd only built an 80 million dollar building, 13 million could've gone to their wonderful "outreach." What if they'd spent 40 million? How many people could've been helped? It all depends on what goes into the facility and what they will do with it. Again, to harp on McLean Bible Church, whose facility probably cost 2-3 times that in the OP, they use the large state-of-the-art meeting rooms and worship halls to hold a free of charge Accessibility Summet - which is a weekend long conference for teachers, care-providers, families of, and people with disabilities to attend. They have numerous workshops EACH YEAR and serve many many many in the community. Temple Grandin was the keynote speaker a few years ago and she took a tour of Jill's House after her talk. It just so happened that my boys were there that weekend for respite care. We had just watched the Temple Grandin movie with Claire Danes a month earlier and my higher functioning son then did all the research he could on Temple. This is the child who was a in self-contained autism classroom in his early elementary years, yet starting in kindergarten would help the teachers with their computer issues. Anyhow, Temple was touring the facility - no one introduced her to the kids, because they didn't think they'd have a clue, but ds#1 ran up to her and said, "You're Temple Grandin!" To which, according to Jill's House staff, she didn't show any surprise, but simply said "Yes, I am." Here is a picture of Temple and my son: One simply does not know by the price tag of a building whether or not a large number people will be helped there at no cost to them. Whether or not it will be "worth it." It simply isn't a fair judgement to make. Show me a balance sheet of what is spent on the facility and what is spent on outreach, and then make a decision. It is possible to do good works.. and by all accounts they do good works and still "overspend" on renovating and adding to the church. It is very possible to spend a lot less money on the same size facility. Just check out the flyover on their website. It is completely over the top.. I'm glad you had a wonderful experience with the mega church in McLean but if they spent 270 million dollars to build a church... then they are wrong as well. It is no necessary to spend that much money on a building in order to do the good that they do. I would say it again... WWJD? I don't think he would have built $93million dollar churches when there is so much poverty in the world.
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Post by elaine on May 20, 2015 2:52:40 GMT
It all depends on what goes into the facility and what they will do with it. Again, to harp on McLean Bible Church, whose facility probably cost 2-3 times that in the OP, they use the large state-of-the-art meeting rooms and worship halls to hold a free of charge Accessibility Summet - which is a weekend long conference for teachers, care-providers, families of, and people with disabilities to attend. They have numerous workshops EACH YEAR and serve many many many in the community. Temple Grandin was the keynote speaker a few years ago and she took a tour of Jill's House after her talk. It just so happened that my boys were there that weekend for respite care. We had just watched the Temple Grandin movie with Claire Danes a month earlier and my higher functioning son then did all the research he could on Temple. This is the child who was a in self-contained autism classroom in his early elementary years, yet starting in kindergarten would help the teachers with their computer issues. Anyhow, Temple was touring the facility - no one introduced her to the kids, because they didn't think they'd have a clue, but ds#1 ran up to her and said, "You're Temple Grandin!" To which, according to Jill's House staff, she didn't show any surprise, but simply said "Yes, I am." Here is a picture of Temple and my son: One simply does not know by the price tag of a building whether or not a large number people will be helped there at no cost to them. Whether or not it will be "worth it." It simply isn't a fair judgement to make. Show me a balance sheet of what is spent on the facility and what is spent on outreach, and then make a decision. It is possible to do good works.. and by all accounts they do good works and still "overspend" on renovating and adding to the church. It is very possible to spend a lot less money on the same size facility. Just check out the flyover on their website. It is completely over the top.. I'm glad you had a wonderful experience with the mega church in McLean but if they spent 270 million dollars to build a church... then they are wrong as well. It is no necessary to spend that much money on a building in order to do the good that they do. I would say it again... WWJD? I don't think he would have built $93million dollar churches when there is so much poverty in the world. In our part of the country, where the dinky townhouse I live in is worth $380K, that is the cost of property and building. A 15' x 15' yard. No covered parking. It sucks. Jesus would be appalled, as many of us are. But it is the cost of living here. Many meeting halls, sanctuaries, youth outreach facility, administrative offices, parking structures, school facilities, etc., are all part of the Church campus. For that much property and structure, that is just what things cost in Northern VA right outside of DC. There are different populations in need and different ways to meet those populations. In this instance, with how well-used those facilities are by the general public, in addition to the church members, not to mention their ministry and service to the disabled in VA, MD, and DC, I don't think Jesus would begrudge them. There are a number of DC politicians who attend the church, they wouldn't attend the small church in the suburbs, sad, but true, and I'm glad that their awareness is raised to our issues. There are so few church congregations who make a point of serving the disabled. It is more popular to build houses, run food banks, distribute clothes. I'm sure if McLean did more of all those things in a public way, no one would have a problem with it. But our kids drool, they are in wheel chairs, they yell at restaurants. They stim, flap, groan, carry stuffed anumals even though they are teens. As families with disabled children, we are in desperate need of help but not one other freaking church in our area is willing to provide respite care for our families. Not one other freaking congregation in our area cares about the happiness of our children or the health of our marriages. They are willing to preach the Bible, but do absolutely freaking nothing in terms of ministry to the disabled living in their own community. So would Jesus would be happier with all the hundreds/thousandsof churches in my area that cost much less to build but want nothing to do with my family or my kids? The poor are NOT the only in need of ministry and compassion - I think Christ was clear on that. ETA: FWIW, I worked for 7 years, up until this year, at Fairfax Co Public Schools Parent Resource Center - the center's purpose is to serve parents of kids in special education. A large portion of my job was to research and find community resources and opportunities for parents and their kids with disabilities. I am VERY familiar with what is available in our area - that was how I found out about Jill's House before it opened - and how sorely lacking we are in respite for families with kids with disabilities. McLean Bible Church and JSSA (Jewish Social Services Agency) are the only two religious-affiliated groups in the area offering services. JSSA doesn't do respite, but has social skills groups, and summer camps for disabled kids. THAT, IMO, is a bigger sin than how much all the various churches and synagogues spend on their buildings.
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Post by stampbooker on May 20, 2015 2:54:03 GMT
It's also unfair to assume you know what is being cherry picked when you are not an expert on what the Bible teaches. Julie LOL. Really? This is such a bizarre reply. Does your bible teach that you get to cherry pick what suits you then? Because if not your argument is absurd. I wasn't "cherry" picking, I was showing you where in your bible it said stuff about not tithing being stealing, and stealing being a commandment, and breaking commandments will get you a one way ticket to hell. Not only is that pretty much the opposite of cherry picking, I thought that was pretty basic knowledge of anyone with even the most basic understanding of christianity. (Which I exceed considering I was one for years, still not a theologian by any stretch, but still not just some random person with no understanding at all) I am not accusing you of cherry picking. I am saying you shouldn't accuse others of cherry picking what the Bible teaches, when you do not know what it teaches. The things you are saying that the Bible teaches are not true. The Bible doesn't teach that Christians should tithe. This is simply not true. That is an concept of the old covenant and Christians are under the new covenant. So a Christian who doesn't believe in tithing is not "cherry picking" they believe what scripture teaches. Tithing is not a New Testament teaching. Believers are supposed to give cheerfully and generously as they are able to those who need. That is what the NT teaches. You can pick verses out of the Bible to prove just about anything. The Bible, just like any book, wasn't meant to be read and understood by picking phrases out of context. As a Christian I am not under the laws of the Old Testament. Julie
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on May 20, 2015 3:36:15 GMT
LOL. Really? This is such a bizarre reply. Does your bible teach that you get to cherry pick what suits you then? Because if not your argument is absurd. I wasn't "cherry" picking, I was showing you where in your bible it said stuff about not tithing being stealing, and stealing being a commandment, and breaking commandments will get you a one way ticket to hell. Not only is that pretty much the opposite of cherry picking, I thought that was pretty basic knowledge of anyone with even the most basic understanding of christianity. (Which I exceed considering I was one for years, still not a theologian by any stretch, but still not just some random person with no understanding at all) I am not accusing you of cherry picking. I am saying you shouldn't accuse others of cherry picking what the Bible teaches, when you do not know what it teaches. The things you are saying that the Bible teaches are not true. The Bible doesn't teach that Christians should tithe. This is simply not true. That is an concept of the old covenant and Christians are under the new covenant. So a Christian who doesn't believe in tithing is not "cherry picking" they believe what scripture teaches. Tithing is not a New Testament teaching. Believers are supposed to give cheerfully and generously as they are able to those who need. That is what the NT teaches. You can pick verses out of the Bible to prove just about anything. The Bible, just like any book, wasn't meant to be read and understood by picking phrases out of context. As a Christian I am not under the laws of the Old Testament. Julie So the ot is obsolete essentially? Then why use it at all?
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Post by scrapqueen01 on May 20, 2015 4:14:17 GMT
The Old Testament is the history of God's people and interaction with them. It tells of all the prophesies of Jesus' coming that were fulfilled when he came into the world. It shows why we needed a savior to begin with. It was impossible to keep all 600+ of the laws. The law shows us our sins. Once we see our sin we come to a place where we see we need a savior.
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Post by snowsilver on May 20, 2015 5:26:26 GMT
Couple of things really struck me here. One: We regularly see posts on this forum from non-Christians stating that Christians have no right to "judge" anyone. The old "judge not that ye be not judged" text is quoted fairly regularly (even though the context is completely misused). But here we have many Peas quite happily judging Christians for spending THEIR money how they please. Interesting I think. Maybe even hypocritical.
Two: While I am not a fan of huge amounts being spent on mega-churches, I still have to wonder if those of you who are saying God would NEVER approve of such spending have ever actually read the Bible! Because if you have you would be familiar with both the Wilderness Tabernacle and Solomon's Temple (and later Herod's Temple which is the temple Jesus taught in). Both the Wilderness Tabernacle and Solomon's Temple were built with EXACT directions from God--right down the the minute detail. Might want to check out cost of both of those. Makes a mere $93 million look puny. And remember--these temples were designed directly BY God, Himself. Moses (and later David and Solomon) followed blueprints laid down by God. I mean we're talking solid gold walls and fixtures, piles of jewels, etc. etc. Herod's temple which was considered far inferior to Solomon's was one of the wonders of the world in its magnificence and glory. One can only wonder what Solomon's temple looked like! And most certainly God must have approved of this as the Shekinah glory rested in the Most Holy Place until the day of Christ's crucifixion. Jesus, Himself, taught in that temple frequently! And there were plenty of poor people in Jerusalem during that time--yet Christ never said a single admonishing word about the temple being too expensive.
Reading some of the comments here, I have been reminded of the horror of some of the disciples (Judas) when Mary poured the perfume on Jesus' feet. That perfume was worth more than a year's wages! And some of the disciples complained that many poor could have been fed for the cost of that perfume. Seems to me that Jesus completely disagreed with them. I don't think God disapproves of magnificent structures being built to honor Him.
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
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Post by anniebygaslight on May 20, 2015 6:04:16 GMT
Hideous and obscene. The only positive I can see is that it will have provided employment for a number of people for maybe a couple of years. It looks like something from Star Trek.
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Post by Skypea on May 20, 2015 7:19:01 GMT
It is no necessary to spend that much money on a building in order to do the good that they do. I would say it again... WWJD? I don't think he would have built $93million dollar churches when there is so much poverty in the world.
How do you know? Do you know the cost of the land? the quality of the materials? the cost of construction in that area? check on it per sf.
As for WWJD - what did He say to those who thought expensive oils shouldn't be used to anoint Him? but someone said that the oils could be sold and money used to help the poor. Jesus said the poor will always be with us...
How about the Temple King Solomon built?
While I don't think one should be overly extravagant, in this day and age the cost depends on a lot of factors.
How many complaining about the cost of the church are also complaining about the $s our government spends to keep and protect unused buildings? paying 'employees' not to do work? paying them while they watch porn? or use taxpayer money for other luxuries and vices? gallivanting around in planes at the expensive of the taxpayer? staying in extreme luxury hotels at our expense? giving them undeserved bonuses? bonuses at all when they make good money and get good benefits to do a job! keeping them employed when they've cheated, lied and stole from taxpayers?
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Gennifer
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Post by Gennifer on May 20, 2015 8:04:08 GMT
This is one of the reasons I am so against organized religion. I came across this image today, referencing the newest completed LDS temple. There are almost 150 of these buildings worldwide, and this is one of 17 in Utah alone. (I haven't verified the stats on this, but they don't seem unrealistic to me.) They've recently announced plans to build a temple in Haiti, which sickens me. I just cannot believe that the money will be spent on that, rather than helping to meet basic human needs in an area that desperately needs it.
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Post by gar on May 20, 2015 8:06:19 GMT
Extravagant churches just seem so incredibly self serving.
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stittsygirl
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Post by stittsygirl on May 20, 2015 10:32:03 GMT
Extravagant churches just seem so incredibly self serving. And apparently so is the god several people here choose to worship and excuse. Just one of the many reasons I'm unable to believe in such an arrogant, pretentious being - who blesses so arbitrarily and would condone or even demand ostentatious monuments built to his/her/its glory over much more humble places of worship, where the money saved could provide even more tangible relief to those in actual need. Yeah, I'll pass.
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Post by maryland on May 20, 2015 10:45:46 GMT
Sounds like a great church, Elaine! Yes. Their focus on Ministry is "walking the walk" in terms of many of Christ's teachings, IMO. The fact that they ARE a mega church gives them the financial and person-power to do many outreach activities that smaller churches just wouldn't be able to. My point being that not all mega churches are the same - just as all smaller congregations aren't the same - in terms of goals, values, and practices. If you asked me 18 years ago when we were living under the shadow of Focus on the Family in Colorado Springs if I would ever want to have anything to do with a mega church, I would have LOLd. The McLean Bible church has changed my preconceived notions of what mega churches can be. That's wonderful hearing about a church that helps the community so much! The members of that church should be proud of what they are doing for the community. Great story, thanks for sharing.
My niece's prom took place at a mega church near them (Calvert County, MD area). I once read that the DC area had one of the highest numbers of mega churches. Not sure if that has changed?
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Post by gar on May 20, 2015 10:50:38 GMT
Couple of things really struck me here. One: We regularly see posts on this forum from non-Christians stating that Christians have no right to "judge" anyone. The old "judge not that ye be not judged" text is quoted fairly regularly (even though the context is completely misused). But here we have many Peas quite happily judging Christians for spending THEIR money how they please. Interesting I think. Maybe even hypocritical. But non Christians don't proclaim loudly that being non-judgmental is a 'rule' they have chosen to live by, whereas Christians do.
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scrappinmama
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Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on May 20, 2015 12:00:11 GMT
Well like I said on page 2, people are always going to find things they don't like, and lump people together unfairly. All I can do is live the life that I believe God wants me to live. This means having a kind heart, an open mind, and being generous to those in need. If some people don't like that, too bad, so sad for them. I'm just going to be me. Like Patrick Swayze said, nobody puts scrappin mama in a box. I don't think it is unfair to assume you believe in the bible when you claim to be a christian. What is unfair is to expect others to know which parts you are going to cherry pick when engaging in a conversation. Don't want lumped in with Christians, don't call yourself one. I see that you can't be reasoned with. Rain dancer, I sense so much anger from you. Someone who was religious must have hurt you deeply. I'm sorry if that is what made you so angry toward people who believe in God. There are some rotten people in the world. Some are Christian. Some are Jewish. Some are atheists. To lump everyone in to one group is wrong. But I see that nothing I say will get through to you. For the first time in my pea history, I'm blocking someone.
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AmeliaBloomer
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Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on May 20, 2015 12:12:29 GMT
...just like I am a Christian in the minority who supports gay marriage. If you define Christianity as Evangelical Protestantism, that's probably true. But, for example, in the US, that definition is leaving out about 100 million mainline Protestants and Catholics, all of whom identify as Christians. And opinions are definitely changing. Here're some recent statistics. (More in article.)
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Dalai Mama
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La Pea Boheme
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 20, 2015 13:08:03 GMT
My only issue with this is that churches are running themselves as for-profit businesses and being taxed as not-for-profits. Personally, I think that any not-for-profit should have to show that income earned and expenses incurred have a direct relationship with the purely charitable work that they do in order to be considered tax-free. Any income or expenses not directly related to those charitable works should be treated the same as income/expense of any other for-profit business. When the bulk of a church's income is going towards infrastructure, it should call into question their designation as a charity.
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Dalai Mama
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La Pea Boheme
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 20, 2015 13:12:41 GMT
It is no necessary to spend that much money on a building in order to do the good that they do. I would say it again... WWJD? I don't think he would have built $93million dollar churches when there is so much poverty in the world.
How do you know? Do you know the cost of the land? the quality of the materials? the cost of construction in that area? check on it per sf.
As for WWJD - what did He say to those who thought expensive oils shouldn't be used to anoint Him? but someone said that the oils could be sold and money used to help the poor. Jesus said the poor will always be with us...
How about the Temple King Solomon built?
While I don't think one should be overly extravagant, in this day and age the cost depends on a lot of factors.
How many complaining about the cost of the church are also complaining about the $s our government spends to keep and protect unused buildings? paying 'employees' not to do work? paying them while they watch porn? or use taxpayer money for other luxuries and vices? gallivanting around in planes at the expensive of the taxpayer? staying in extreme luxury hotels at our expense? giving them undeserved bonuses? bonuses at all when they make good money and get good benefits to do a job! keeping them employed when they've cheated, lied and stole from taxpayers?
Tu quoque.
And to answer that, I also complain about government spending. Got anything else?
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Dalai Mama
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La Pea Boheme
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 20, 2015 13:15:00 GMT
I don't think it is unfair to assume you believe in the bible when you claim to be a christian. What is unfair is to expect others to know which parts you are going to cherry pick when engaging in a conversation. Don't want lumped in with Christians, don't call yourself one. I see that you can't be reasoned with. Rain dancer, I sense so much anger from you. Someone who was religious must have hurt you deeply. I'm sorry if that is what made you so angry toward people who believe in God. There are some rotten people in the world. Some are Christian. Some are Jewish. Some are atheists. To lump everyone in to one group is wrong. But I see that nothing I say will get through to you. For the first time in my pea history, I'm blocking someone. Ad hominem.
The logical fallacies in this thread abound.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on May 20, 2015 14:18:07 GMT
I don't think it is unfair to assume you believe in the bible when you claim to be a christian. What is unfair is to expect others to know which parts you are going to cherry pick when engaging in a conversation. Don't want lumped in with Christians, don't call yourself one. I see that you can't be reasoned with. Rain dancer, I sense so much anger from you. Someone who was religious must have hurt you deeply. I'm sorry if that is what made you so angry toward people who believe in God. There are some rotten people in the world. Some are Christian. Some are Jewish. Some are atheists. To lump everyone in to one group is wrong. But I see that nothing I say will get through to you. For the first time in my pea history, I'm blocking someone. LOL.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on May 20, 2015 14:19:24 GMT
I see that you can't be reasoned with. Rain dancer, I sense so much anger from you. Someone who was religious must have hurt you deeply. I'm sorry if that is what made you so angry toward people who believe in God. There are some rotten people in the world. Some are Christian. Some are Jewish. Some are atheists. To lump everyone in to one group is wrong. But I see that nothing I say will get through to you. For the first time in my pea history, I'm blocking someone. Ad hominem.
The logical fallacies in this thread abound.
Without a doubt.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on May 20, 2015 14:20:44 GMT
My only issue with this is that churches are running themselves as for-profit businesses and being taxed as not-for-profits. Personally, I think that any not-for-profit should have to show that income earned and expenses incurred have a direct relationship with the purely charitable work that they do in order to be considered tax-free. Any income or expenses not directly related to those charitable works should be treated the same as income/expense of any other for-profit business. When the bulk of a church's income is going towards infrastructure, it should call into question their designation as a charity. This is precisely my issue as well. Particularly with membership, those who give "freely" of their money should be demanding transparency. Just because someone at the top has said to you that they promise they are doing good with your money but refuse to show you how, doesn't mean they are.
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jenkate77
Full Member
Posts: 427
Jun 26, 2014 1:33:16 GMT
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Post by jenkate77 on May 20, 2015 14:21:10 GMT
I'm not bothered by it, but I normally have a hard time shaming people for spending their money on what they want to. I mean - SOMEONE is giving buckets of cash to the Kardashians, but that's their money. If they want to build a church, then they should build a church. Then again, I am Mormon, and I have no issue with us investing our money in a mall. It's not as though we worship there. I have come back to this over and over. I still don't know what the hell you are trying to say here and what the wink is for. Seriously. It just sounds so cold and so f'cking callous. I don't really even know how to address this comment. Since the Kardashians make millions being/doing nothing, then it somehow makes sense that your church takes 10% from even it's most poverty stricken members, to build a *mall*, a multi-BILLION dollar mall, ok? And don't you dare tell me that the church didn't use tithing money, because even though it wasn't "technically" tithing money, it was invested money *from* tithing that got them there. So semantics aren't necessary. And it does "take" the money, since without payment you are not a "worthy" member in full standing. I wink at the idea of worshipping at City Creek mall. It's pretty amazing, and I've only been there briefly one time. I could spend lots of time there! It's an investment. Somewhere to put the church's money. What would you like them to invest it in? And, since you don't pay tithing, why do you even get an opinion? Sure, they own a mall. But they also took care of me when I was a 19 year old widow. My point about the Kardashians is that people spend their money on all kinds of things. I spend my money on something different than you do. I like expensive makeup but I'm a pretty serious bargain grocery shopper. Someone is lining the Kardashian pockets with lots and lots of money. Someone is building a giant Methodist church. *shrug*
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 20, 2024 23:55:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 14:28:08 GMT
And this is a huge reason why I left Christianity. These types of churches are obscene. I have no problems with having a big church and outreach buildings etcetera. They are needed. But the church in the link. No. That is simply a disgrace.
I much prefer to worship God out in nature and give freely. No fancy windows or $93M building needed.
And I love when some claim the OT is not to be followed but then it is quoted left and right regarding several hot button issues these days. Especially gay marriage. Do hypocritical.
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