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Post by jumperhop on May 22, 2015 8:47:57 GMT
Is it possible in situations like this where there is no "sex" involved that he could not be a pedophle? My assumption that you never hear the whole story in cases like this. And it's usually worse than it's portrayed. I have strong beliefs in once a pedophile always a pedophile. That there is no reform. Anyone with any physiological back ground weigh in? Jen
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Post by justkat on May 22, 2015 9:52:24 GMT
I'm another who's not ever watched the Duggar program. I have on occasion read a thread about them here or on TwoPeas. Not that it makes a difference but I'm confused about one thing after reading this thread and the linked article...... It's my understanding that he wasn't 14 when this happened. The way I read the police report was that he was 14 when the alleged abuse came to light/police interview but that he was about 10 when the abuse actually occurred. I don't recall the page number but the report states the officer asking him to describe why he's being interviewed and he says something like "well about 4 years ago...". So I took that to mean 14 at interview minus 4 years would make him 10? So he'd have been a child himself, again not that it makes a difference. But am I reading it wrong? I'm just confused.
I can kind of see his parents wanting to protect all their kids, especially if they're all very young. But in a situation like this they truly failed them all if they did nothing, no counseling etc for any of the children.
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Post by Kelpea on May 22, 2015 10:35:53 GMT
How dare anyone excuse his and his parents' disgusting heinous actions when there are FIVE girls who are now likely going to be in therapy for years and who also have an increased chance of drug or alcohol abuse due to the molestations? Add their lack of self worth due to the betrayal of their own parents who didn't protect them, and finish with the fact that they are unlikely to have normal loving relationships with men, and you have a trifecta of HELL that these poor victims never anticipated if someone, namely their parents, had looked after them.
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Post by christine58 on May 22, 2015 10:48:16 GMT
Who said that the girls were his sisters? Is he a 'normal' 14yr old boy? My son would have known better at that age but under the severe restrictions under which these kids live, he had little to no access to anything outside his home. I'm certainly not condoning his behavior I just think they are other facets to this. These kids are socially very immature...especially with sexuality. My son goes to a conservative private school but he certainly had access to older 'kids' at that age and the internet. I think the duggar kids are so limited to the REAL outside world that it makes me sad. No way to learn or ask other KIDS about things. Jim Bob have him the birds and bees talk the night before his WEDDING! Unbelievable. SMH WTF gavinsmom Would you feel the same if this was your DAUGHTER? Delta Dawn Bullsh*t
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by back to *pea*ality on May 22, 2015 10:58:55 GMT
I haven't read most if the thread, but I have questions- How many of you defended and supported Lena Dunham when her revelations of sexual "curiosity" with her little sister came out? She never faced charges. She never had parents that got her and her sister to counseling. Hell, she's proud of it to this day. She was raised a sick twisted person and is proud to still be a sick and twisted person. Is outrage only reserved for those whom you can pin the "hypocrite" badge upon? Or is it okay to engage in same sex molestation, because it's cool to be gay or bi now? Or perhaps it's just not considered molestation when a girl does it, especially one raised by sexually loose and morally bankrupt parents. Ones raised by Christian parents, well they better never step outta line one iota, because that makes them evil, horrible people. There is no excuse for Josh's actions, but by all accounts he has atoned for it, sought help for it, and he should be allowed to put it behind him, as should the girls. Should we all have our lives ruined by terrible mistakes made in childhood? With regard to the reference to Lena Dunham, she wrote in her book- The passages cited include one that describes an incident when Dunham was seven and her sister was one and playing on the driveway. Dunham writes that “curiosity got the best” of her and she opened her sister’s vagina only to call for her mother when she found the toddler had “six or seven pebbles in there”. “My mother didn’t bother asking why I had opened Grace’s vagina,” Dunham wrote. “This was within the spectrum of things that I did.” In another passage that has attracted critics she describes trying to persuade her sister to “kiss her on the lips for five seconds” by offering gifts of sweets or coins. “Basically, anything a sexual predator might do to woo a small suburban girl, I was trying,” wrote Dunham. I think she and Josh Duggar are equally disturbing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 11:02:56 GMT
First, what kind of people protect one kid who's a molestor at the expense of their other children that were molested?
Sick
After reading this whole thread, I am beyond gobsmacked at some of the excuse making going on. Teenage "hormones?" Poor Anna?? SMDH
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 22, 2015 11:08:15 GMT
What the hell difference does it make how old someone is when they are sexually abused? Wrong is wrong, no matter the age. My god. I am NOT talking about the sexual abuse. I am talking about making the victims' names public. Sigh. Nobody was suggesting that the victims' names should be made public so I don't quite understand what point you are making.
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Pearl Clutcher
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Post by back to *pea*ality on May 22, 2015 11:11:45 GMT
For those of you who have opined that Josh Duggar atoned for mistakes in childhood can you explain what you mean by that?
Was he charged with his crime, convicted and served time?
Is he on a sexual predator list to make sure the community is on notice?
Did he attend counseling sessions to overcome his deviant behavior?
Did he do anything financially to support victims with counseling expenses?
If all he did was pray about it, I am not sure that is going to cut it as far as atonement.
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moodyblue
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Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on May 22, 2015 11:17:52 GMT
You said it wasn't the same. So yes you did. No. You misunderstood what I was talking about. I was talking about allowing the information to become public. I don't necessarily think it is right for minors or adults names to be basically published, but I think an adult might be able to handle it better. I was NOT talking about the abuse at all. This was NOT at all clear from your post. And your LOL seemed really out of place.
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Post by hop2 on May 22, 2015 11:36:31 GMT
I keep thinking about Anna. Wondering if she knew of any of this before marrying him. She must be concerned for her children, for their future financially, and as a family. I guess it remains to be seen if she'll stand beside him. She's one of the few who seemed genuine. She must be devastated. She says she and her father did know. She issued a statement as well. see that's the weirdest thing I've heard in this whole thread. The absurd totally most unbelievable thing. I mean my dad didn't really play a part in whom I married, but I can not imagine him just sitting by and remaining quiet if I were marrying an admitted child molester. He would have moved heaven and earth to change my mind. Would have tried to forbid me to do so. He would have sent me away or tried to. I can't wrap my Brain around that. Gosh there's some sick, sick people in this world. It's astoundung really.
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stittsygirl
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Post by stittsygirl on May 22, 2015 11:39:46 GMT
Is it possible in situations like this where there is no "sex" involved that he could not be a pedophle? My assumption that you never hear the whole story in cases like this. And it's usually worse than it's portrayed. I have strong beliefs in once a pedophile always a pedophile. That there is no reform. Anyone with any physiological back ground weigh in? Jen Just because there was (apparently) no kind of intercourse involved, doesn't mean Josh or others like him can't be pedophiles. When a predator knows they'll have long-term access to their victim/victims, they often start out very slowly "grooming", and most of the time that includes discreet fondling, that can progressively become more invasive. From what I understand (anyone who watches the show can correct me), the Duggars eventually had their girls sleeping dormitory style, and a some point fully-clothed. That could have been their way of trying to protect the girls from their son (or their son from their "vixen" daughters - I don't understand how their minds work) when they found out about the molestations. If they hadn't discovered it, who knows how far Josh would have eventually gone with his sisters or other accessible children.
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Post by Merge on May 22, 2015 11:43:03 GMT
I think everyone involved in this tragic situation is a victim of the extreme and warped belief system in which they've been raised. Do they still have responsibility for their actions? Yes, of course.
But when we set aside good sense and reason and rely solely on dogma, superstition and tribalism, bad things happen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 11:46:26 GMT
One thing that came to me now at 5 am, the parents knew they had this pervert in the family and yet they went on to have another clown car of children. So not only did they sweep under the rug the evidence and information that Josh was a molester, but they opened themselves up to more potential victims. Way to go Ma and Pa Duggar. Keeping them safe in in the family for years to come!
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MerryMom
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Post by MerryMom on May 22, 2015 12:11:42 GMT
10 pager
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Post by jamielynn on May 22, 2015 12:27:15 GMT
I really have enjoyed the show ... Up to this point.
I've always disliked Josh, his wife annoys me and I feel she puts on a big show for the cameras how calm she is. Jim Bob is skeevy.. That said I enjoy seeing the rest of them.
I imagine this started as normal teen curiosity, with no outlet ... No girls at school to like or experiment with. Little outside contact. At which point he became a repeat predator. I believe he likely was abused as well to repeatedly behave this way. Sadly, all the lives have changed with his actions. I hope all victims are doing well and able to overcome this. I hope they have had professional counseling and the family hasn't considered their own counseling appropriate and brushed it under the rug.
I can say after reading this today I hate the parents for this. How could you ever protect a predator, even if he is a child ... When you know there are victims and more potential victims in your home?
I can hardly believe that They classify this as a teenage mistake! That's having a drink, smoking a cigarette, sneaking out late, skipping school. A teenage mistake is not a classified crime. ... A very serious one at that!
I wish the other kids well (not Josh) and hope TLC pulls the show. Removing Josh from it is not appropriate, Jim Bob and Michelle are as guilty of crime for failing to report timely and need to be removed as well.
I hope this isn't too much stress for the other kids to handle especially the pregnant sister/new mom.
I can't imagine TLC wasn't aware? When a person goes on tv don't they do long interviews for PR about anything that could hit the media?
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Post by peatlejuice on May 22, 2015 13:08:42 GMT
I'm another who's not ever watched the Duggar program. I have on occasion read a thread about them here or on TwoPeas. Not that it makes a difference but I'm confused about one thing after reading this thread and the linked article...... It's my understanding that he wasn't 14 when this happened. The way I read the police report was that he was 14 when the alleged abuse came to light/police interview but that he was about 10 when the abuse actually occurred. I don't recall the page number but the report states the officer asking him to describe why he's being interviewed and he says something like "well about 4 years ago...". So I took that to mean 14 at interview minus 4 years would make him 10? So he'd have been a child himself, again not that it makes a difference. But am I reading it wrong? I'm just confused. According to the police reports, this occurred around 2003. The family also said in their statement that this happened twelve years ago. He is 27 now, so that would put him at 14-15 when he committed the crimes.
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Julie W
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Post by Julie W on May 22, 2015 13:26:54 GMT
I really have enjoyed the show ... Up to this point. I've always disliked Josh, his wife annoys me and I feel she puts on a big show for the cameras how calm she is. Jim Bob is skeevy.. That said I enjoy seeing the rest of them. I imagine this started as normal teen curiosity, with no outlet ... No girls at school to like or experiment with. Little outside contact. At which point he became a repeat predator. I believe he likely was abused as well to repeatedly behave this way. Sadly, all the lives have changed with his actions. I hope all victims are doing well and able to overcome this. I hope they have had professional counseling and the family hasn't considered their own counseling appropriate and brushed it under the rug. I can say after reading this today I hate the parents for this. How could you ever protect a predator, even if he is a child ... When you know there are victims and more potential victims in your home? I can hardly believe that They classify this as a teenage mistake! That's having a drink, smoking a cigarette, sneaking out late, skipping school. A teenage mistake is not a classified crime. ... A very serious one at that! I wish the other kids well (not Josh) and hope TLC pulls the show. Removing Josh from it is not appropriate, Jim Bob and Michelle are as guilty of crime for failing to report timely and need to be removed as well. I hope this isn't too much stress for the other kids to handle especially the pregnant sister/new mom. I can't imagine TLC wasn't aware? When a person goes on tv don't they do long interviews for PR about anything that could hit the media? This exactly. This sums up my feelings.
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 22, 2015 13:29:51 GMT
Is it possible in situations like this where there is no "sex" involved that he could not be a pedophle? My assumption that you never hear the whole story in cases like this. And it's usually worse than it's portrayed. I have strong beliefs in once a pedophile always a pedophile. That there is no reform. Anyone with any physiological back ground weigh in? Jen The clinical definition for a diagnosis of pedophilia requires that the person be at least 16 and attracted to prepubescent (usually under 11) children. It is also a sexual PREFERENCE for young children as opposed to just a crime of opportunity. (Many child molesters are not pedophilies just disgusting opportunists). Josh doesn't meet the criteria based on the incidents that we know about as he was 14 however, we also know that pedophilia emerges during puberty so this may have been his starting point. That's why it would be important for him to get assessment and treatment....so that someone could assess if he does pose a threat to all the young women in his family.
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AmeliaBloomer
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on May 22, 2015 13:35:03 GMT
My god. I am NOT talking about the sexual abuse. I am talking about making the victims' names public. Sigh. bluerain: If it helps, I understood your comments in this thread from the start. Not sure why/how they got misconstrued. I agree that there are privacy issues involved with release of this kind of information, even implied breach or privacy, and especially for minors. It's a complicated issue, of course, but it makes complete sense that victims could have a range of opinions about privacy, and that the opinions within that range are all legitimate. Your opinion is certainly not an indication of callousness.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on May 22, 2015 14:21:27 GMT
My god. I am NOT talking about the sexual abuse. I am talking about making the victims' names public. Sigh. Nobody was suggesting that the victims' names should be made public so I don't quite understand what point you are making. She (blue rain) said (in several posts) that the records shouldn't have been made public so as not to "out" the victims. Scrap power said she wanted to scream from the roof tops about her abuser and even wanted to take out an ad in the newspaper. I think blue rain then assumed that scrappower must have been an adult when the assault occurred and said that "it wasn't the same". Naming underage victims versus naming of age victims. I think reputable news agencies don't reveal the name of rape victims no matter the age. I think people misunderstood her line of thought though it's really clear to me re-reading it. I would stand corrected if many people read ALL of her posts and still see it differently. Otherwise it kinda sucks to be thought such a callous person.
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pyccku
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Post by pyccku on May 22, 2015 14:29:50 GMT
How dare anyone excuse his and his parents' disgusting heinous actions when there are FIVE girls who are now likely going to be in therapy for years and who also have an increased chance of drug or alcohol abuse due to the molestations? Add their lack of self worth due to the betrayal of their own parents who didn't protect them, and finish with the fact that they are unlikely to have normal loving relationships with men, and you have a trifecta of HELL that these poor victims never anticipated if someone, namely their parents, had looked after them. Nah, they probably won't get therapy - after all, they're just daughters. A little bit of prayer time and talk about how all of this will bring them closer to God, then marry them off ASAP so they won't be an issue any more.
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ladymadonna
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Dec 2, 2014 2:36:39 GMT
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Post by ladymadonna on May 22, 2015 14:47:58 GMT
Another former "fan" checking in. Despite being a Christian, I have never understood their way of life and watched in fascination with no judgement. It did bother me that the older kids seemed to do more parenting than the actual parents. I was also appalled seeing the swimsuits the girls were forced to wear, the ridiculous courtships with no touching, etc. All just so over the top. Both Jim Bob and Josh always just seemed icky to me and possibly the next son in line, John David, even more so.
Honestly, I feel quite betrayed both by TLC and by the family and anyone else who had anything to do with this show. The show started in 2008, right? So this was a known fact going in! Surely TLC did in depth research on the family before beginning this dog and pony show. It just seems so completely hypocritical to pretend to be Godly and pure while hiding this all important secret. We've all talked about suspecting one of these kids was going to go nuts and rebel. Who the hell would have thought it happened before the thing even started?
As as far as Anna is concerned, I am concerned for her children, but she KNEW! That may be the most shocking fact of all for me. That this culture is so concerned with marrying off their young daughters to begin the breeding process, that this was acceptable to both her and her parents! Kind of shines a light on Anna's adolescent home life if you ask me. She must have really wanted out. And then to do all that ridiculous "first kiss" at the wedding!
Ugh, just end it already! The only other "reality" show I ever got sucked in on was Jon & Kate. We all know how that ended. Never watching TLC again!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 14:48:19 GMT
Nobody was suggesting that the victims' names should be made public so I don't quite understand what point you are making. She (blue rain) said (in several posts) that the records shouldn't have been made public so as not to "out" the victims. Scrap power said she wanted to scream from the roof tops about her abuser and even wanted to take out an ad in the newspaper. I think blue rain then assumed that scrappower must have been an adult when the assault occurred and said that "it wasn't the same". Naming underage victims versus naming of age victims. I think reputable news agencies don't reveal the name of rape victims no matter the age. I think people misunderstood her line of thought though it's really clear to me re-reading it. I would stand corrected if many people read ALL of her posts and still see it differently. Otherwise it kinda sucks to be thought such a callous person. Well lots of us thought it the other way. So it obviously wasn't that clear at all.
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amom23
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Post by amom23 on May 22, 2015 14:50:17 GMT
If this was really just a terrible teenager mistake and Josh is very sorry and has become a better person blah, blah, blah then why did he quit his current job so quickly?
I don't think TLC has any choice BUT to discontinue the show. Bummer for the Duggar's since I'd bet that TV show pays a lot of the bills.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on May 22, 2015 14:56:46 GMT
She (blue rain) said (in several posts) that the records shouldn't have been made public so as not to "out" the victims. Scrap power said she wanted to scream from the roof tops about her abuser and even wanted to take out an ad in the newspaper. I think blue rain then assumed that scrappower must have been an adult when the assault occurred and said that "it wasn't the same". Naming underage victims versus naming of age victims. I think reputable news agencies don't reveal the name of rape victims no matter the age. I think people misunderstood her line of thought though it's really clear to me re-reading it. I would stand corrected if many people read ALL of her posts and still see it differently. Otherwise it kinda sucks to be thought such a callous person. Well lots of us thought it the other way. So it obviously wasn't that clear at all. As I said before I read all of her posts on the thread I think in 10 pagers people selectively quote or even selectively read.. Scrappower what was your interpretation of her comments?
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 22, 2015 14:58:05 GMT
Nobody was suggesting that the victims' names should be made public so I don't quite understand what point you are making. She (blue rain) said (in several posts) that the records shouldn't have been made public so as not to "out" the victims. Scrap power said she wanted to scream from the roof tops about her abuser and even wanted to take out an ad in the newspaper. I think blue rain then assumed that scrappower must have been an adult when the assault occurred and said that "it wasn't the same". Naming underage victims versus naming of age victims. I think reputable news agencies don't reveal the name of rape victims no matter the age. I think people misunderstood her line of thought though it's really clear to me re-reading it. I would stand corrected if many people read ALL of her posts and still see it differently. Otherwise it kinda sucks to be thought such a callous person. I understood her post the first time which is why I didn't address it. My confusion is with her argument that the victims' names shouldn't be released when nobody is suggesting that they should be.
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Post by annabella on May 22, 2015 14:58:47 GMT
Who is defending criminal behavior? My point was I can UNDERSTAND how this COULD happen given the nature of their lifestyle. These kids are freakishly immature and repressed about sexuality. A boy with crazy teenage hormones, a sexually repressive 'religion'/belief system, no outlet for information/curiosity fact checking, no privacy for dealing with your own damn body...recipe for disaster! He SHOULD have been punished! But a public hanging NOW doesn't erase the problem. And for ME..fondling breasts is WAY better in my minds cubicle than genitals. It's all wrong...but that just seems much worse to me. Abuse is abuse just like a sin is a sin but we all have our own levels of atrocity I agree with you and another poster said he did this when he was 10, not 14. I do feel sorry for the victims and feel it a shame he never got counseling. However I think that was many years ago and now he sleeps with Anna so his curiosity in that department is now gone.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on May 22, 2015 15:01:41 GMT
She (blue rain) said (in several posts) that the records shouldn't have been made public so as not to "out" the victims. Scrap power said she wanted to scream from the roof tops about her abuser and even wanted to take out an ad in the newspaper. I think blue rain then assumed that scrappower must have been an adult when the assault occurred and said that "it wasn't the same". Naming underage victims versus naming of age victims. I think reputable news agencies don't reveal the name of rape victims no matter the age. I think people misunderstood her line of thought though it's really clear to me re-reading it. I would stand corrected if many people read ALL of her posts and still see it differently. Otherwise it kinda sucks to be thought such a callous person. I understood her post the first time which is why I didn't address it. My confusion is with her argument that the victims' names shouldn't be released when nobody is suggesting that they should be. Again from re-reading the thread. It looked like it was a side conversation between scrappower and bluerain. One disagreeing with the other about the anonymity that should be given to victims. I have no stake in this of course but just thought it would be helpful to not have two peas with similar and unfortunate life experiences have such a huge misunderstanding.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 15:02:59 GMT
Well lots of us thought it the other way. So it obviously wasn't that clear at all. As I said before I read all of her posts on the thread I think in 10 pagers people selectively quote or even selectively read.. Scrappower what was your interpretation of her comments? She made assumptions that I wasn't a minor (I was) when I was abused and then went on saying it was different because I wasn't. I don't care her reasoning. What she claimed was wrong. And I never said names of victims should be released. Not once. So the argument is moot. I said the abuser should be made public.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on May 22, 2015 15:03:31 GMT
Who is defending criminal behavior? My point was I can UNDERSTAND how this COULD happen given the nature of their lifestyle. These kids are freakishly immature and repressed about sexuality. A boy with crazy teenage hormones, a sexually repressive 'religion'/belief system, no outlet for information/curiosity fact checking, no privacy for dealing with your own damn body...recipe for disaster! He SHOULD have been punished! But a public hanging NOW doesn't erase the problem. And for ME..fondling breasts is WAY better in my minds cubicle than genitals. It's all wrong...but that just seems much worse to me. Abuse is abuse just like a sin is a sin but we all have our own levels of atrocity I agree with you and another poster said he did this when he was 10, not 14. I do feel sorry for the victims and feel it a shame he never got counseling. However I think that was many years ago and now he sleeps with Anna so his curiosity in that department is now gone. He was 14-15 when he molested his victims. His age is public and Jim Bob and Michelle statement to people said 12 years ago. From there it's just simple math. Also just because he is sleeping with a woman of age doesn't mean he isn't at risk to re-offend. Goodness.
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