Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 23, 2015 1:09:53 GMT
I keep coming back to the assurances about the counsel he received from his church, from family friends, from a counsellor - how much help he received after the incidents. No mention of help for his victims, no mention of counselling for those who probably needed it most. Just a bit about how the girls forgave him.
Him, him, him.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 2:32:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 1:18:01 GMT
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 2:32:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 1:23:46 GMT
You know what has been dwelling on my mind all day.. is the repeated insistence from the Duggars that Josh has been forgiven by his victims. The more I think about it, the more uncomfortable I am with this idea that these girls forgave him, completely and on her own. I just don't buy it. I think any family that exerts this level of control over their children, and protects and PROMOTES the abuser in their family over the victims, likely didn't really give the victims any choice but to "forgive". I agree. I been thinking about how this could be the start of a sick cycle of abuse that just will keep going on. Say Josh and Anna's son does this same thing in a few years to one of his sisters (or vice versa)..it gets found out and it will just be the same thing of sweeping it under the rug and the victim will have to forgive. I don't think this is a **Start** of a cycle. I think it is a well established cycle from previous generations. Won't surprise me to have it come out that one or both parents were molested as children and had it handled in the same way. (Not saying I think siblings molesting siblings is normal because it isn't)
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Post by Scrapper100 on May 23, 2015 1:29:38 GMT
The more I hear the more sickened I am. At first I thought it was a long time ago let it go for the victims sake now I just find it so disturbing. Somewhere I read that one of the victims was 5 thst is beyond disturbing. I just hope he doesn't touch his daughters I can't imagine knowingly marrying someone who did this.
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julieb
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,845
Jul 3, 2014 16:02:54 GMT
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Post by julieb on May 23, 2015 1:34:37 GMT
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Post by Tamhugh on May 23, 2015 1:34:48 GMT
I can't find it now, but I read an article recently about one of the other boys courting. There was a comment that he had gone to some sort of "program" for awhile and people seemed to believe it was a camp to "pray away the gay" or handle some other worldly issue with him. I keep wondering now if it is true and if he did something bad as well. Those thoughts lead me right back to, "who was molesting the boys in that house to turn them into molestors". I really hope that all of the children receive counseling and not just a short time with a family friend, doing menial labor to cure them.
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 23, 2015 1:35:52 GMT
The scandal with Bill Gothard has been public knowledge....the new connection is that it is where Josh attended for "faith healing". Shaking. My. Damn. Head. kelbel827 , I agree with you that the girls were coached. There is no way that they would have responded so similarly. The only other explanation I have is that the investigating officer was feeding them the answers rather than interviewing them. Eg. Do you hate math? Yes, of course. Either way, it sucks.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 2:32:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 1:38:33 GMT
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 23, 2015 1:54:24 GMT
Tamhugh, look at the Daily Mail article that Scrappower linked above. It talks about Joseph (?) going to one of the Gothard programs.
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Gravity
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,233
Jun 27, 2014 0:29:55 GMT
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Post by Gravity on May 23, 2015 1:57:11 GMT
I agree, Ashley. And in reading the comments on that blog - which are just making me crazy! - there is so much praying for Josh and so little mention of the girls. They are ostensibly fans/supporters of the family, yet lack concern for the family members who are the true victims in this situation. It's amazing how faith blinds.
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valincal
Drama Llama
Southern Alberta
Posts: 5,768
Jun 27, 2014 2:21:22 GMT
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Post by valincal on May 23, 2015 2:12:54 GMT
It's amazing how faith blinds. Are there any non-Christians defending him? After all, we heathens are supposed to support this kind of behaviour, right?
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on May 23, 2015 2:25:47 GMT
The scandal with Bill Gothard has been public knowledge....the new connection is that it is where Josh attended for "faith healing". Shaking. My. Damn. Head. kelbel827 , I agree with you that the girls were coached. There is no way that they would have responded so similarly. The only other explanation I have is that the investigating officer was feeding them the answers rather than interviewing them. Eg. Do you hate math? Yes, of course. Either way, it sucks. I am thinking it had to do with how he asked the questions. "where do you live?" "who lives there?" do you have any pets? where do you go to school? who is your teacher? what is favorite/ least favorite subject? do you play any games with your brothers and sisters? it looks like he had a standard list he worked off of with each child. Then he summarized their answers in the same format. While it is odd many had the same fave/ least fave subject, the rest of the answers would be the same. I know in private Christian schools and home schools spelling is pushed heavy, I had spelling tests twice a week until the day I graduated. So perhaps that's why they so readily answered spelling. And who likes math? Haha.
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 23, 2015 2:27:06 GMT
Did you read the comments at the end? We need to recruit those people to be RFPs. My favourite was "Boy, that Kate Gosselin seems like a real nice lady, doesn't she?" (I am trying to find something else to focus on now).
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Post by katiekaty on May 23, 2015 2:28:30 GMT
Mike Huckabee, GOP President candidate wannabee came out in support of the Duggars. I may have to think my Republican support in the next election. he definitely is not getting my vote. As a child/teenager who was sexually abused, you never get over it and you never really forgive the abuser. You never ever trust them again and you definitely would never allow another child near. AND I don't think GOD forgives abusers. I don't think there is way for forgiving someone that can do that kind of damage to someone's psyche-you can move on with your life, but it is always inside the victim. I also believe that that evil remains inside the abuser just waiting for an opportunity to show itself again. There is a special place in Hell for them.
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 23, 2015 2:34:03 GMT
The scandal with Bill Gothard has been public knowledge....the new connection is that it is where Josh attended for "faith healing". Shaking. My. Damn. Head. kelbel827 , I agree with you that the girls were coached. There is no way that they would have responded so similarly. The only other explanation I have is that the investigating officer was feeding them the answers rather than interviewing them. Eg. Do you hate math? Yes, of course. Either way, it sucks. I am thinking it had to do with how he asked the questions. "where do you live?" "who lives there?" do you have any pets? where do you go to school? who is your teacher? what is favorite/ least favorite subject? do you play any games with your brothers and sisters? it looks like he had a standard list he worked off of with each child. Then he summarized their answers in the same format. While it is odd many had the same fave/ least fave subject, the rest of the answers would be the same. I know in private Christian schools and home schools spelling is pushed heavy, I had spelling tests twice a week until the day I graduated. So perhaps that's why they so readily answered spelling. And who likes math? Haha. But that's not how you conduct a a child abuse interview with young children. Can you imagine a child disclosing ongoing sexual abuse to someone who peppered them with yes/no questions!? Not likely, right? The interviews were crap. Instead of asking direct questions, the officer should have been trying to get those children to talk more. Instead of "who lives there" it should be "tell me about your family" etc.
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Post by Peace Sign on May 23, 2015 2:38:28 GMT
Culty cult cult cult.
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Post by myshelly on May 23, 2015 2:38:58 GMT
I am thinking it had to do with how he asked the questions. "where do you live?" "who lives there?" do you have any pets? where do you go to school? who is your teacher? what is favorite/ least favorite subject? do you play any games with your brothers and sisters? it looks like he had a standard list he worked off of with each child. Then he summarized their answers in the same format. While it is odd many had the same fave/ least fave subject, the rest of the answers would be the same. I know in private Christian schools and home schools spelling is pushed heavy, I had spelling tests twice a week until the day I graduated. So perhaps that's why they so readily answered spelling. And who likes math? Haha. But that's not how you conduct a a child abuse interview with young children. Can you imagine a child disclosing ongoing sexual abuse to someone who peppered them with yes/no questions!? Not likely, right? The interviews were crap. Instead of asking direct questions, the officer should have been trying to get those children to talk more. Instead of "who lives there" it should be "tell me about your family" etc. That's not how professional, trained, up to date officers conduct interviews with children. But in this case...
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 23, 2015 2:41:18 GMT
Mike Huckabee, GOP President candidate wannabee came out in support of the Duggars. I may have to think my Republican support in the next election. he definitely is not getting my vote. As a child/teenager who was sexually abused, you never get over it and you never really forgive the abuser. You never ever trust them again and you definitely would never allow another child near. AND I don't think GOD forgives abusers. I don't think there is way for forgiving someone that can do that kind of damage to someone's psyche-you can move on with your life, but it is always inside the victim. I also believe that that evil remains inside the abuser just waiting for an opportunity to show itself again. There is a special place in Hell for them. I can't imagine that Mike Huckabee came out in support of Josh a without some serious strategic discussions about his position. And, that scares the shit out of me. Hopefully his strategic analysts have this move wrong.
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 23, 2015 2:43:41 GMT
But that's not how you conduct a a child abuse interview with young children. Can you imagine a child disclosing ongoing sexual abuse to someone who peppered them with yes/no questions!? Not likely, right? The interviews were crap. Instead of asking direct questions, the officer should have been trying to get those children to talk more. Instead of "who lives there" it should be "tell me about your family" etc. That's not how professional, trained, up to date officers conduct interviews with children. But in this case... Was it the same officer that his dad knew from the car lot? SMDH again.
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Post by hop2 on May 23, 2015 2:51:41 GMT
Hmm was there a movie about that? I'd swear I saw a TV movie about that but I could be wrong.
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NoWomanNoCry
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,856
Jun 25, 2014 21:53:42 GMT
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Post by NoWomanNoCry on May 23, 2015 2:55:06 GMT
I agree. I been thinking about how this could be the start of a sick cycle of abuse that just will keep going on. Say Josh and Anna's son does this same thing in a few years to one of his sisters (or vice versa)..it gets found out and it will just be the same thing of sweeping it under the rug and the victim will have to forgive. I don't think this is a **Start** of a cycle. I think it is a well established cycle from previous generations. Won't surprise me to have it come out that one or both parents were molested as children and had it handled in the same way. (Not saying I think siblings molesting siblings is normal because it isn't) Well that could be very well true as well. Whole thing is so sad.
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Post by hop2 on May 23, 2015 2:55:18 GMT
Mike Huckabee, GOP President candidate wannabee came out in support of the Duggars. I may have to think my Republican support in the next election. he definitely is not getting my vote. As a child/teenager who was sexually abused, you never get over it and you never really forgive the abuser. You never ever trust them again and you definitely would never allow another child near. AND I don't think GOD forgives abusers. I don't think there is way for forgiving someone that can do that kind of damage to someone's psyche-you can move on with your life, but it is always inside the victim. I also believe that that evil remains inside the abuser just waiting for an opportunity to show itself again. There is a special place in Hell for them. I can't imagine that Mike Huckabee came out in support of Josh a without some serious strategic discussions about his position. And, that scares the shit out of me. Hopefully his strategic analysts have this move wrong. Well After a look at the comments on that FB page I'm not so sure, there seems to be a very long list of people who have been sharing flavor aid with the Duggars I guess the question is how many
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Post by jumperhop on May 23, 2015 3:04:07 GMT
Is it possible in situations like this where there is no "sex" involved that he could not be a pedophle? My assumption that you never hear the whole story in cases like this. And it's usually worse than it's portrayed. I have strong beliefs in once a pedophile always a pedophile. That there is no reform. Anyone with any physiological back ground weigh in? Jen Just because there was (apparently) no kind of intercourse involved, doesn't mean Josh or others like him can't be pedophiles. When a predator knows they'll have long-term access to their victim/victims, they often start out very slowly "grooming", and most of the time that includes discreet fondling, that can progressively become more invasive. From what I understand (anyone who watches the show can correct me), the Duggars eventually had their girls sleeping dormitory style, and a some point fully-clothed. That could have been their way of trying to protect the girls from their son (or their son from their "vixen" daughters - I don't understand how their minds work) when they found out about the molestations. If they hadn't discovered it, who knows how far Josh would have eventually gone with his sisters or other accessible children. I have tried a dozen times to respond today and never let's me. We'll see if it works this time. I have seen a pedophile work on someone close to me me this year. Luckily it was caught in time. It was terrifying. You look back and see his meticulous slow grooming. He slowly made you believe that right was left and left was right. And had everyone fooled. I have seen the show a half a dozen times. Yes the girls have a mega room. I sure have mixed feeling about their lifestyle. One hand I admire their dedication to God. But how can they be dedicated to God if they let their children's abuser lives at home. I am a lover not a judger. But feel like you have a pass when it's something of a sexual nature. Thanks Jen
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gottapeanow
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 25, 2014 20:56:09 GMT
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Post by gottapeanow on May 23, 2015 3:26:29 GMT
I have not read the entire thread. Here is general protocol on how juvenile sex offenders should be punished according to federal guidelines. However, it does say that states can adopt stricter penalties than those listed. www.smart.gov/juvenile_offenders.htmThis government study has lots of data and statistics but no real conclusions. www.unh.edu/ccrc/pdf/CV171.pdfInformation from Pennsylvania on the treatment of juvenile and adult offenders. www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/05/supreme_court_weighing_whether.htmlAnd another study from 1999 with more interesting data and info. www.csom.org/pubs/juvbrf10.htmlI see a lot of people attacking Josh and a few people defending him. I am not doing either but looking at all kinds of verifiable data from government and reputable sources on juvenile sex offenders. Sex offender cases understandably inspire lots of emotional reactions. Even so, there are guidelines in sentencing when a juvenile is convicted. Texas basically locks them up and throws away the key. Lisa
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Post by krazykatlady on May 23, 2015 3:33:32 GMT
According to Mike Huckabee "good people make mistakes." I'm sorry but the molestation of multiple children is NOT A MISTAKE. What an idiot.
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Post by Chips on May 23, 2015 4:18:51 GMT
I two questions.
First how/why did the police report reveal Josh's name since he was a minor?
Second, why was it ever ok even to think it was ok to let a child molester be judged by God and not a court of law in the US judicial system. My mind is completely blown that Josh, his parents and who ever else knew about Josh's molestations are not being called into court about this. When did God or religion trump law?
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Post by crimsoncat05 on May 23, 2015 4:21:36 GMT
...if kids sending naked selfies to someone else's cell phone can be classified as distributing pornography, would he (had he been prosecuted or at the very least questioned by police, because it seems the case never got follow-thru) have been classified as a sex offender, even as a minor?? It is positively nauseating to think of the cover-up and all the machinations that were (possibly / most likely) at work over the years in this family, to keep it quiet enough to just be rumors. How could TLC have not known at least something about it?? Yet they aired the specials anyway, and gave them their own show.
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stittsygirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,600
Location: In the leaves and rain.
Jun 25, 2014 19:57:33 GMT
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Post by stittsygirl on May 23, 2015 4:39:03 GMT
More information about Bill Gothard, from last year, including his ties with Hobby Lobby's Green family. The Greens apparently bought the building Josh Duggar was treated in, as well as several others, for Gothard and his "ministry".
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 2:32:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 4:41:46 GMT
I two questions. First how/why did the police report reveal Josh's name since he was a minor? Second, why was it ever ok even to think it was ok to let a child molester be judged by God and not a court of law in the US judicial system. My mind is completely blown that Josh, his parents and who ever else knew about Josh's molestations are not being called into court about this. When did God or religion trump law? Josh's name is also redacted in the report.
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Post by kelbel827 on May 23, 2015 10:40:33 GMT
Thanks tduby1. That could explain it.
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