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Post by brina on May 23, 2015 22:09:20 GMT
the Duggars are all about blaming the victims - or all women. The reason they dress the way they do is to not tempt men. They teach their girls that it is their responsibility to dress modestly because men cannot control their impulses - they have a word for it - I cannot remember.
But think about it - their girls have been molested by their brother but have been told repeatedly that they have to be careful not to tempt men. Their brother was not punished for his actions. I can imagine that in a child's mind they believe exactly what BuckeyeSandy said - that they share blame.
I just remembered - defraud. When women show too much skin they are guilty of defrauding men.
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on May 23, 2015 22:10:06 GMT
I can't believe as nurturing and protective women are supposed to be that they could actually hear about such a horrendous situation and blame the victims.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 22:22:58 GMT
I didn't know there was another thread.
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Post by jumperhop on May 23, 2015 22:31:44 GMT
Please write your State officials and let them know we need stricter laws for minors who commit sexual crimes. I know of a boy in my previous state who raped his 3 year old sister and is not on the sexual offender because he was a minor. This needs to change. Jen
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 22:35:33 GMT
I really don't think that BuckeyeSandy meant that the girls were at fault. She clearly didn't know the facts of the case and assumed that it was just a situation of "playing doctor" where everyone was a willing participant. She shouldn't have spoken up when she didn't know what she was talking about, but I don't think it is fair to beat her down because of it. Why can't people just correct her instead of tearing her to pieces? How does that further anyone's enlightenment? Julie I didn't know there was another thread, I thought Hop2 was referring to the Duggars or someone close to them blaming the 4 year olds. I couldn't imagine the words and twisted logic that would have to take place for that to happen. I've read the thread where BuckeyeSandy posted and it's clear to me she is not blaming 4 year olds for being molested.
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Post by bostonmama on May 23, 2015 22:38:04 GMT
The 5th girl who wasn't a member of the Duggar family... Why didn't her parents feel compelled to hold Josh accountable, I wonder? Same fundamentalist mindset perhaps? Fear of going against the Duggars?
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Post by greenlegume on May 23, 2015 22:38:43 GMT
I really don't think that BuckeyeSandy meant that the girls were at fault. She clearly didn't know the facts of the case and assumed that it was just a situation of "playing doctor" where everyone was a willing participant. She shouldn't have spoken up when she didn't know what she was talking about, but I don't think it is fair to beat her down because of it. Why can't people just correct her instead of tearing her to pieces? How does that further anyone's enlightenment? Julie yeah . . . NO She most certainly did blame the victims. It's right there in her post. Your unwillingness to read it or believe it doesn't mean it didn't happen. And she never once mentioned playing doctor. Why on earth would you twist yourself up trying to excuse the kind of cruelness it takes to blame a 5 y.o. child for being molested? Or the nastiness she lobbed at every single abuse victim with that blame? Really? You want to excuse that away? While you have every right to do that, don't get all upset that people won't join you.
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Post by greenlegume on May 23, 2015 22:44:58 GMT
To all who agree, PLEASE contact TLC. The crazy fundies are out in full-force shrieking about forgiveness, second-chances, and supposed christian bashing. The fate of the show isn't about religion, it's about criminal child molestation, and the network needs to hear some rational voices telling them to stop sanctioning it. I am beyond grossed out about what Josh did. Horrible!! Just horrible!!! More than anything, my heart breaks for the girls... the girls have been my focus through this. They most be mortified to have this revealed. My sweet 15 year old niece is the biggest Duggar fan. She just adores and looks up to the girls (even though she does not agree with all their extreme ideas). In fact, some of the family are scheduled to visit not far from here next month. Her parents already have a hotel booked and were planning the details for the four our drive to meet them. My daughter and I were going to meet up with them on their trip and have a fun summer weekend (the only fun we have planned for the summer). I feel sad for their young fans like my niece and daughter. The two of them love Jill so much, they picked small gifts from her wedding registry to be sent to her and she sent two very sweet handwritten thank you notes. As far as TLC, I am guessing they will cancel the show. If given the choice to go on without Josh, I would guess the whole family would allow it to cancel. They seem like a "take us all or none" type of family to me. I do not agree with the plea to contact TLC. That seems extreme and dramatic. When it cancels, several people will be hurt by this, not just Josh... Your outrage is with Josh and his parents but the cameramen, producers, sound, editors, etc...etc... etc.. will be hurt. ALSO!! Those sisters, those sweet girls, those precious girls that MY niece and daughter look up to, those girls that everyone wants justice for.... will be hurt (assuming they were getting a check for each show). They are a family of 21 plus 3 spouses and nearly 6 grandchildren. MOST of those people are completely innocent and do not deserve the hate. --just for the record, I am NOT a "crazy fundie" I think they might surprise you on that front. The cameramen, producers, sound, editors, etc. will not be hurt. They'll simply be assigned to another show. There are plenty of trashy fame whores and hypocritical religious posers out there, and TLC is all too willing to put them on the air. Save your pity for the victims of Josh Duggar. They need it-not even their parents would protect them or look out for them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 22:50:38 GMT
I really don't think that BuckeyeSandy meant that the girls were at fault. She clearly didn't know the facts of the case and assumed that it was just a situation of "playing doctor" where everyone was a willing participant. She shouldn't have spoken up when she didn't know what she was talking about, but I don't think it is fair to beat her down because of it. Why can't people just correct her instead of tearing her to pieces? How does that further anyone's enlightenment? Julie yeah . . . NO She most certainly did blame the victims. It's right there in her post. Your unwillingness to read it or believe it doesn't mean it didn't happen. And she never once mentioned playing doctor. Why on earth would you twist yourself up trying to excuse the kind of cruelness it takes to blame a 5 y.o. child for being molested? Or the nastiness she lobbed at every single abuse victim with that blame? Really? You want to excuse that away? While you have every right to do that, don't get all upset that people won't join you. Let's take into account her years of history here of rational thought and logic. Let's take into account her words that she "made an assumption that they were close in age", which more than likely, the logic in that continues on that she thought they were both willing participants in a playing doctor scenario, not a molesting scenario. I'm taking into account her history and her words, to not assume BuckeyeSandy has been hiding a sick twisted mentality all this time and has suddenly morphed into a demented person who blames a 4 year old for being a victim of molestation. I mean come on.
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Post by greenlegume on May 23, 2015 22:56:11 GMT
yeah . . . NO She most certainly did blame the victims. It's right there in her post. Your unwillingness to read it or believe it doesn't mean it didn't happen. And she never once mentioned playing doctor. Why on earth would you twist yourself up trying to excuse the kind of cruelness it takes to blame a 5 y.o. child for being molested? Or the nastiness she lobbed at every single abuse victim with that blame? Really? You want to excuse that away? While you have every right to do that, don't get all upset that people won't join you. Let's take into account her years of history here of rational thought and logic. Let's take into account her words that she "made an assumption that they were close in age", which more than likely, the logic in that continues on that she thought they were both willing participants in a playing doctor scenario, not a molesting scenario. I'm taking into account her history and her words, to not assume BuckeyeSandy has been hiding a sick twisted mentality all this time and has suddenly morphed into a demented person who blames a 4 year old for being a victim of molestation. I mean come on. You do whatever you like. I'm not a spreadsheet keeper, but right now I almost wish I was. I've never really thought of her past posts as being rich with logic or reason, but if that's your impression, more power to you. I've also seen BuckeyeSandy post some other outrageous shit in the past*, and this just seals the deal for me. When people show me who they are, I believe them. *and of course now I can't remember specifics, but even if I had irrefutable proof of other shit she said someone would try to excuse her actions. What she said today is out there and it totally speaks for itself. Her follow up post makes it abundantly clear that she is refusing to look at the facts in this case. She's still calling the whole thing malicious gossip. I mean, come on.
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Post by greenlegume on May 23, 2015 23:03:25 GMT
I think they might surprise you on that front. The cameramen, producers, sound, editors, etc. will not be hurt. They'll simply be assigned to another show. There are plenty of trashy fame whores and hypocritical religious posers out there, and TLC is all too willing to put them on the air. Save your pity for the victims of Josh Duggar. They need it-not even their parents would protect them or look out for them. This past Tuesday they had a special episode where they introduced the team of people behind the show. Most have been on the show since the beginning. They all seemed like such a close team. I feel bad that they will be out of work. and yes..I am beyond discussed that their parents did not protect them after knowing this happened. My pity is mostly for the victims...the sweet girls..but I can't help but feel sorry for the others that will be hurt by the show ending. It's nice that you're concerned for the people who work on the show, but really, you're over-dramatizing. They will be assigned to other shows. They're not going to be thrown out on the street. My pity is reserved for the molestation victims who were thrown to the wolves. And you're completely naive if you think TLC didn't have a hand in that.
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Nink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,955
Location: North Idaho
Jul 1, 2014 23:30:44 GMT
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Post by Nink on May 23, 2015 23:05:30 GMT
yeah . . . NO She most certainly did blame the victims. It's right there in her post. Your unwillingness to read it or believe it doesn't mean it didn't happen. And she never once mentioned playing doctor. Why on earth would you twist yourself up trying to excuse the kind of cruelness it takes to blame a 5 y.o. child for being molested? Or the nastiness she lobbed at every single abuse victim with that blame? Really? You want to excuse that away? While you have every right to do that, don't get all upset that people won't join you. Let's take into account her years of history here of rational thought and logic. Let's take into account her words that she "made an assumption that they were close in age", which more than likely, the logic in that continues on that she thought they were both willing participants in a playing doctor scenario, not a molesting scenario. I'm taking into account her history and her words, to not assume BuckeyeSandy has been hiding a sick twisted mentality all this time and has suddenly morphed into a demented person who blames a 4 year old for being a victim of molestation. I mean come on. I'm sorry, but when someone blames the victim for their molestation (and she VERY clearly DID), I don't care what kind of history you have on the board, as far as I'm concerned you've dropped to the bottom rung of the ladder. That is inexcusable.
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Post by greenlegume on May 23, 2015 23:23:47 GMT
It's nice that you're concerned for the people who work on the show, but really, you're over-dramatizing. They will be assigned to other shows. They're not going to be thrown out on the street. My pity is reserved for the molestation victims who were thrown to the wolves. And you're completely naive if you think TLC didn't have a hand in that. You pity just the victims. I pity all the INNOCENT people that will be hurt by this whole thing (not Josh, JBob, and Michelle). I feel pleading for people to contact TLC is "over-dramatizing", you feel my concern is "over-dramatizing" but the two of us are on the same side of the debate, for sure. Absolutely. We may disagree on some of the extraneous issues, but I am glad that we are on the same side of the major debate.
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Just T
Drama Llama
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Jun 26, 2014 1:20:09 GMT
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Post by Just T on May 23, 2015 23:33:46 GMT
Sorry, but NO. 5 year olds "play doctor." 14 year olds do not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 0:28:16 GMT
Sorry, but NO. 5 year olds "play doctor." 14 year olds do not.
I'm sure it was a figure of speech meant to encompass something that wasn't molestation, not a declaration that they were actually "playing doctor". Probably why stampbooker put it in quotes.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 1:39:12 GMT
me as one of the few posters. You couldn't be more wrong. I am not familiar with the Jack Schaap case. However, let me tell you it is not just religious people who blame the girls. I know this for a fact because I was a 16 year old girl that was sexually assualted by my step father for several years. Many people blamed me. Not one person who knew stepped in to help me and it was well known in my family and even in my (small) town. People accused me of seducing him. My mother kicked me out. None of these people were religious. It is not a religious point of view. I never tell anyone this story, and I can't even believe I am telling it here. I know I was not at all at fault. But I don't tell people because it is common in our culture to assume that the girl is to blame or at least partially responsible. It is not just the religious culture that perpetuates this, I can assure you of that. Julie Any teenager can take off her clothes in front of whomever she want at age 16, she can do a strip tease, but it is always the ADULT who approaches her who is wrong. Sixteen 14, 12, 8 etc is NOT seducing an adult. It is always the adult's responsibility to tell her to put her clothes back on and stop what she are doing. To me it is absolutely cut and dry. A child is never asking for it. A child is not sexy. A child is a victim. The girl is never to blame. Or a young boy for that matter. A 16 year old cannot seduce a normal man aged 20+. It's called self-control, knowing what's right from wrong, and having assholes who come on to young victims put in jail. Anyone who blames a child for this should lose their parental rights. Clearly they can't tell the difference between healthy and pervert. I am sorry this happened to you. My heart goes out to you and I pray you can live the rest of your life happily ever after. You are loved here.
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Post by jinxmom2003 on May 24, 2015 2:10:32 GMT
And now news that the Arkansas police destroyed the old record. Admitting that this is not their normal procedure. Too many red flags that this family is not what is claims to be.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 2:19:13 GMT
I was one of those nervous parents. I guess I was a helicopter mom. I didn't leave my son with babysitters other than DS' grandparents in Japan and my parents but only occasionally. After my classmate had been molested by the choir director of our church (her own father) I was freaked out by all men. It is a bit irrational yes but I trusted my gut and I know my son has been safe his entire life. This is what worked for me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 3:57:56 GMT
And now news that the Arkansas police destroyed the old record. Admitting that this is not their normal procedure. Too many red flags that this family is not what is claims to be. I bet *someone* made a copy of the file before it was destroyed. But yeah, totally shady that this happened.
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on May 24, 2015 15:45:05 GMT
And now news that the Arkansas police destroyed the old record. Admitting that this is not their normal procedure. Too many red flags that this family is not what is claims to be. I bet *someone* made a copy of the file before it was destroyed. But yeah, totally shady that this happened. I'm not sure what the benefit of destroying it *now* would even be. Do they think with the records destroyed it will now go back to being an "unsubstantiated" internet rumor? Are they going to ask that the Internet be destroyed next, so the copies floating around on the net no longer exist? Can't they just accept they can no longer control this?
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Post by greenlegume on May 24, 2015 16:04:58 GMT
I bet *someone* made a copy of the file before it was destroyed. But yeah, totally shady that this happened. I'm not sure what the benefit of destroying it *now* would even be. Do they think with the records destroyed it will now go back to being an "unsubstantiated" internet rumor? Are they going to ask that the Internet be destroyed next, so the copies floating around on the net no longer exist? Can't they just accept they can no longer control this? Their attempt at destroying the records didn't accomplish much of anything except once again showing the world who and what they really are. Playing shady and calling in a favor like that at this point was beyond stupid. The entire redacted report is out there on the internet, and that means it will never go away. Like busypea said, I'm sure someone has a copy of the non-redacted report. Which, really, no one needs. It's obvious who his victims were. He and his parents have already admitted it. The Duggars and their apologists will keep spinning, lying, and whatever else. Sadly, there will always be people out there who are completely incapable of sourcing and reading and thinking for themselves. You can't fix stupid. The more pressing problem here is the damage that the Duggars and like cultists have done to further and sanction molestation. And the unspeakable evil and cruelness they have heaped upon molestation victims.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 16:26:12 GMT
I'm not sure what the benefit of destroying it *now* would even be. Do they think with the records destroyed it will now go back to being an "unsubstantiated" internet rumor? Are they going to ask that the Internet be destroyed next, so the copies floating around on the net no longer exist? Can't they just accept they can no longer control this? Their attempt at destroying the records didn't accomplish much of anything except once again showing the world who and what they really are. Playing shady and calling in a favor like that at this point was beyond stupid. The entire redacted report is out there on the internet, and that means it will never go away. Like busypea said, I'm sure someone has a copy of the non-redacted report. Which, really, no one needs. It's obvious who his victims were. He and his parents have already admitted it. The Duggars and their apologists will keep spinning, lying, and whatever else. Sadly, there will always be people out there who are completely incapable of sourcing and reading and thinking for themselves. You can't fix stupid. The more pressing problem here is the damage that the Duggars and like cultists have done to further and sanction molestation. And the unspeakable evil and cruelness they have heaped upon molestation victims. Yup. The records are out there. Having them destroyed just makes them look like shady mcshadesters. That have way too much political control. The judge that destroyed them was appointed by Huckabee. Coincidence? Doubtful.
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Post by greenlegume on May 24, 2015 16:36:52 GMT
I just want to add that people who have a problem with what the Duggars (and TLC) have done NEED to speak out. TLC's FB page has posts on it that more/old? episodes are scheduled to start airing again June 1. Have no idea if this is true, since TLC is being (suspiciously) silent about cancellation, but if it is, it's beyond wrong. Every time those girls are paraded in front of the camera, they are being exploited. I can't fathom why anyone would support or endorse that. A very thought-provoking op-ed on this subject is hereand @ilovecookies linked up another good op-ed in the other Duggar thread
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Post by bc2ca on May 24, 2015 19:22:17 GMT
So glad TLC cancelled them. That whole family bugs the living shit out of me and I wasn't surprised by "a bombshell" or that family's response in dealing with it. The hypocrisy is staggering. Unfortunately, they've just been "pulled" for now. I can't find any confirmation of actual cancellation. From what I read, TLC pulled the show after General Mills pulled all their ads.
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Post by greenlegume on May 24, 2015 19:36:46 GMT
Unfortunately, they've just been "pulled" for now. I can't find any confirmation of actual cancellation. From what I read, TLC pulled the show after General Mills pulled all their ads. Yes, they've pulled it. But they haven't cancelled it. Pulling is usually temporary without also cancelling. A&E has a track record for doing the temporary pull with things like Duck Dynasty and Dog the Bounty Hunter. There are posts on fb saying A&E and TLC are owned by the same parent company. Haven't checked that out yet and verified, but if so, TLC merely pulling the show is troubling. Especially with rumors that they're set to start airing the Duggar show again June 1.
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 24, 2015 19:38:22 GMT
Unfortunately, they've just been "pulled" for now. I can't find any confirmation of actual cancellation. From what I read, TLC pulled the show after General Mills pulled all their ads. Note to self: Buy General Mills products next time I'm at the grocery store.
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Post by greenlegume on May 24, 2015 19:40:09 GMT
From what I read, TLC pulled the show after General Mills pulled all their ads. Note to self: Buy General Mills products next time I'm at the grocery store. Absolutely! I'm trying to find a list of Duggar show advertising sponsors, but it's been slow going so far.
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Post by mirabelleswalker on May 24, 2015 19:51:36 GMT
There's a petition at change.org. They list the sponsors as: Ace Hardware Party City Arm & Hammer (cat litter) King's Hawaiian Cortizone 10 Progressive Insurance Kohl's (department store) Choice Hotels Firehouse Subs Philadelphia Cream Cheese Pure Leaf Tea Walgreen's Minute Maid ( part of the COCA COLA COMPANY!) Payless Shoes Beauty Rest Mattress Sherwin WIlliams Frontline Plus link to petition
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Post by greenlegume on May 24, 2015 19:52:36 GMT
There's a petition at change.org. They list the sponsors as: Ace Hardware Party City Arm & Hammer (cat litter) King's Hawaiian Cortizone 10 Progressive Insurance Kohl's (department store) Choice Hotels Firehouse Subs Philadelphia Cream Cheese Pure Leaf Tea Walgreen's Minute Maid ( part of the COCA COLA COMPANY!) Payless Shoes Beauty Rest Mattress Sherwin WIlliams Frontline Plus link to petitionThank you!!!!
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Nanner
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,987
Jun 25, 2014 23:13:23 GMT
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Post by Nanner on May 24, 2015 21:46:29 GMT
There's a petition at change.org. They list the sponsors as: Ace Hardware Party City Arm & Hammer (cat litter) King's Hawaiian Cortizone 10 Progressive Insurance Kohl's (department store) Choice Hotels Firehouse Subs Philadelphia Cream Cheese Pure Leaf Tea Walgreen's Minute Maid ( part of the COCA COLA COMPANY!) Payless Shoes Beauty Rest Mattress Sherwin WIlliams Frontline Plus link to petitionThank you for posting that. I have signed it.
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