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Post by gavinsmom on May 22, 2015 2:39:09 GMT
I didn't see any of those details in the police report link I read. I agree with the disgust over his actions...I just look at the bigger picture to figure out what drives people to their actions
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Post by greenlegume on May 22, 2015 2:41:46 GMT
I didn't see any of those details in the police report link I read. I agree with the disgust over his actions...I just look at the bigger picture to figure out what drives people to their actions Pretty ironic that you're calling this a lynchmob when you're the one who hasn't read the factual reports. As for your "understanding," I'll bet it would be a lot different if your child was one of the victims. Or, maybe not. Whatever, indeed. Your excuse making is despicable. What happened to personal responsibility? It doesn't matter what "drove him" to molest others. He made a CHOICE to molest his sisters and someone else. IT'S WRONG.
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Post by doesitmatter on May 22, 2015 2:42:49 GMT
How could they not at the very least remove him from their home and their children? all children? Ugh. Sadly treatment is very ineffective in pedophiles- though I would have still gotten him treatment, but obviously he is a pedophile / ill and can't control his actions and needs to be in a residential program and or prison, he cannot be in the general public. Anna made a statement that she and her family were of this before they married... wtf? And has children with him? I fear there will be so many more victims come forward. Side note - I wonder if they got so strict about the whole no touching/kissing after this happened to try and prevent it? Not that is would work but just wondering if this contributed to that? I dunno. Years and years ago back when Dr. Phil did real life stories...a women came on the show with her teenage son and said she was worried because she suspected her son had fondled his little sister and she needed help and didn't know what to do. He had fondled her while "tickling" her ... The mother didn't actually have proof until he admitted it to Dr Phil. The mom didn't allow him to be alone with the child but knew that she had to report her suspicions and protect her daughter and other children. She asked Dr. Phil what he could do to help. The teen boy was devastated that he had fondled his sister once and admitted that he didn't trust himself to control his desires. He said he knew was sick and didn't want to hurt his sister. He had said how would give anything to not be this person. It was awful and heartbreaking. They did several psych tests and lie detectors and impulse control tests and psych analysis. Dr. Phil explained that he could no longer be in the home - that he couldn't go back to the house after the show, not for 1 minute. I think he was 16? He placed him in a residential treatment center that was locked down like a prison for offenders but more treatment based. He was very clear that he could not and should not be around children ever and the teen agreed. The kid was so sickened and upset by his own thoughts and desires. It was heart wrenching. I wonder what happened and if the boy / now man is still there. How the little girl is? And the mom? Dr. Phil had said if he truly didn't want to be an offender he would need to stay in a treatment center ..indefinitely... that the mom could and should visit etc. but not children obviously. If I were ever in this situation I pray I would handle it as well as this mother. She really wanted to protect her daughter and get help for her son. No doubt it crushed her but she did what had to be done. In my opinion this was the only choice. But for the grace of God go I.
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 19:41:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 2:42:50 GMT
Whatever. The whole thing is just sad. I don't even like the Duggars but I can certainly have some basic human understanding of why some people do the things that they do...and apparently I'm an unfit parent because of it No one called you an unfit parent. The rest... it's just not worth it. For whatever reason, it makes you feel better to "understand" why he did this and attribute it to his weird upbringing.
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 4,050
Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on May 22, 2015 2:43:38 GMT
Who is defending criminal behavior? My point was I can UNDERSTAND how this COULD happen given the nature of their lifestyle. These kids are freakishly immature and repressed about sexuality. A boy with crazy teenage hormones, a sexually repressive 'religion'/belief system, no outlet for information/curiosity fact checking, no privacy for dealing with your own damn body...recipe for disaster! He SHOULD have been punished! But a public hanging NOW doesn't erase the problem. And for ME..fondling breasts is WAY better in my minds cubicle than genitals. It's all wrong...but that just seems much worse to me. Abuse is abuse just like a sin is a sin but we all have our own levels of atrocity You are!!!!!!!! You have more excuses for Josh than even he came up with. I really challenge you to change the way you feel about sexual abuse. Imagine telling a victim "O sweetheart he just touched your breasts not your vagina it will be okay" or "Yeah I know your parents told you sex was for marriage but Josh is soooo sheltered...you understand right?" It sounds fucking ludicrous because it is.
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Post by SallyPA on May 22, 2015 2:44:01 GMT
So disgusting.
Help me understand how this works though. IF CPS or police or whatever had been involved back then, what exactly would they do with a 14 year old minor? I mean certainly he would not have been charged with a felony at 14? Right? Just intensive counseling? Just wondering.
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Post by gavinsmom on May 22, 2015 2:43:58 GMT
Calling me an unfit parent is despicable...you don't know me....I forgot that the pod is full of perfect people parenting perfectly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 2:45:13 GMT
I keep thinking about Anna. Wondering exactly how much she knew before marrying him. She must be concerned for her children, for their future financially, and as a family. I guess it remains to be seen if she'll stand beside him. She's one of the few who seemed genuine. She must be devastated.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 2:46:03 GMT
This photo is from 2002. Look at how young those girls are. Makes me sick.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 2:47:06 GMT
I keep thinking about Anna. Wondering if she knew of any of this before marrying him. She must be concerned for her children, for their future financially, and as a family. I guess it remains to be seen if she'll stand beside him. She's one of the few who seemed genuine. She must be devastated. She says she and her father did know. She issued a statement as well.
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Post by greenlegume on May 22, 2015 2:47:21 GMT
Once again, no one called you an unfit parent.
And yes, your excuse making absolutely is despicable.
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Post by gavinsmom on May 22, 2015 2:48:10 GMT
Did I disagree that it is wrong and disgusting? Not in any way..just tried to look at the bigger picture in a very unusual family/group dynamic. WHY was he driven to act this way? Was their sexually repressive lifestyle a contributing factor? Would he have made different choices if sexuality and hormones were discussed and addressed as these kids entered puberty?
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Post by greenlegume on May 22, 2015 2:48:40 GMT
I keep thinking about Anna. Wondering exactly how much she knew before marrying him. She must be concerned for her children, for their future financially, and as a family. I guess it remains to be seen if she'll stand beside him. She's one of the few who seemed genuine. She must be devastated. I didn't get this feeling at all when I read her statement in People.
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Post by M~ on May 22, 2015 2:50:54 GMT
Every pig has its day, or so it seems...
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Post by gavinsmom on May 22, 2015 2:51:24 GMT
Saying I hopefully don't have a daughter...and then any kids is basically saying that I'm unfit to parent. And that is a hostile and immature remark...expressing a wider point of view does not make me unfit to parent. Sexual abuse had touched me personally...maybe that's WHY I look at what makes people tick...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 2:51:31 GMT
Did I disagree that it is wrong and disgusting? Not in any way..just tried to look at the bigger picture in a very unusual family/group dynamic. WHY was he driven to act this way? Was their sexually repressive lifestyle a contributing factor? Would he have made different choices if sexuality and hormones were discussed and addressed as these kids entered puberty? Do you look for the cause for other abusers? Are you quick to place the blame elsewhere in those cases? Or do you generally think that a sexual abuser is accountable for their own actions? Why are you so invested in absolving him of responsibility?
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Post by doesitmatter on May 22, 2015 2:52:41 GMT
I keep thinking about Anna. Wondering exactly how much she knew before marrying him. She must be concerned for her children, for their future financially, and as a family. I guess it remains to be seen if she'll stand beside him. She's one of the few who seemed genuine. She must be devastated. I didn't get this feeling at all when I read her statement in People. I read a quote about where she said she knew. I am baffled that she went forward to marry him and have children etc. I thought the quote was in People? It was a solid source and part of the family's official statement today.
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Post by doesitmatter on May 22, 2015 2:54:09 GMT
I didn't get this feeling at all when I read her statement in People. I read a quote about where she said she knew. I am baffled that she went forward to marry him and have children etc. I thought the quote was in People? It was a solid source and part of the family's official statement today. www.people.com/article/josh-duggar-molestation-accusations-duggars-respondAnna Duggar From People.com "I can imagine the shock many of you are going through reading this. I remember feeling that same shock," she says. "When my family and I first visited the Duggar home, Josh shared his past teenage mistakes. I was surprised at his openness and humility and at the same time didn't know why he was sharing it. For Josh, he wanted not just me but my parents to know who he really was – even very difficult past mistakes." But Anna said she had confidence that the counseling her husband received "changed his life." "He continued to do what he was taught. who Josh really is – someone who had gone down a wrong path and had humbled himself before God and those whom he had offended," she says. "Someone who had received the help needed to change the direction of his life and do what is right."
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Post by lumo on May 22, 2015 2:54:49 GMT
I cannot wrap my head around the fact there are people here defending his actions.
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 2:57:26 GMT
Sexual abuse had touched me personally...maybe that's WHY I look at what makes people tick... It's touched me too - my dad was out on bail for sex crimes against minors when he killed himself. And I can guaran-fucking-tee you that nothing in his upbringing or our family caused him to be that way. So maybe that's why I'm so offended by the making excuses and blaming others for his crimes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 2:57:54 GMT
Thanks for the info doesitmatter. I guess I overestimated her level of devastation. She knew and started a family with him regardless. With whatever motivations. This just gets more and more tragic.
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 22, 2015 2:58:17 GMT
I didn't see any of those details in the police report link I read. I agree with the disgust over his actions...I just look at the bigger picture to figure out what drives people to their actions The linked police report contains details of the police interviews. The officer was drawing pictures with at least two of the subjects he was interviewing. There were disclosures that he touched his sisters (plural) genitals, and breasts. While they were awake and asleep. I get that you were trying to say that Josh was a product of the repressed environment in which he was raised. His parents, IMHO, are just as culpable for not taking greater measures to safeguard their children and provide them with treatment. It it may help to put it in perspective....in March of 2002, Jana was 12, Jill was 10, Jessa was 9, jinger was 8, and Joy was 4 (according to the experts at Free Jinger..). Did you just vomit a little bit in your mouth?
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Post by gavinsmom on May 22, 2015 3:00:51 GMT
I do look at what drives people...doing good or evil. I was profoundly affected by a sociology class I took in college. I saw things pretty black and white way back then. It was a super small class and my professor challenged me to examine the choices people make. I learned that things aren't always as black and white as they seem. What seems painfully obvious to some isn't nearly so to others. I often watch or read documentaries about criminals...recently Jeffery Dahmer. Learning some of his back story shed some light on his crimes I'm not placing any blame except squarely where it belongs...on Josh AND his parents.
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Post by gavinsmom on May 22, 2015 3:07:01 GMT
I hope Anna always has an eye peeled for unusual behavior
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Post by greenlegume on May 22, 2015 3:09:32 GMT
I hope Anna always has an eye peeled for unusual behavior I'm surprised to see you say this when you said he didn't seem like a threat to anyone.
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Post by gavinsmom on May 22, 2015 3:13:00 GMT
I don't honestly think he is a threat....but I'm not the most trusting soul either. Have faith in the goodness of someone but don't be an idiot....
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama
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Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on May 22, 2015 3:13:04 GMT
Again...I'm not making light of a tragic situation...it just sadly doesn't surprise me given their way of life. I'm in no way condoning it or brushing it off....but the whole situation is whacked. The preaching of absolute abstinence leaves no outlet for kids to learn about sexuality. And sharing rooms 10 kids to a room? Research has shown that MOST kids/people masturbate at some point in their lives...can you imagine living in such a restrictive environment? I'm sure they would have been condemned to Hell for masturbating!!! It's just a sad sad situation...but ripe for the picking I will agree with this. I said on the very first page that with their overly sheltered lives I'm not surprised something like this happened. Teens are naturally curious, I get that. But how that curiosity goes from just normal teen shit to fondling your sisters while they sleep I won't even try to understand, and it's no where near "normal". That said, his actions disturb me greatly. But the way the family, church and police either failed to acted or deliberately covered it up is disgusts me. Sending him off to do manual labor and praying is not justice for those girls.
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Post by gavinsmom on May 22, 2015 3:18:46 GMT
I think teenagers do really stupid things sometimes....historically. A good friends 13yr old daughter recently sent a nude selfie to a boy she KNEW better but did it anyway. Kids are inherently stupid at times...it doesn't mean that they will ALWAYS be stupid. I snuck out of the house as a teen..'borrowed' a friends moms car..well HE did...none of us were licensed drivers. Stupid? You betcha! Dangerous? Absolutely. None of us are criminals and all relatively successful at life. Josh Duggars stupidity affected others...that's the real tragedy.
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Post by scrapmaven on May 22, 2015 3:20:10 GMT
I don't honestly think he is a threat....but I'm not the most trusting soul either. Have faith in the goodness of someone but don't be an idiot.... I have yet to see his goodness. Nothing about Josh Duggar screams good person.
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Post by gavinsmom on May 22, 2015 3:20:46 GMT
I'm sure HE wishes he could have 'borrowed' a playboy from someone and masturbated like most normal boys do....
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