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Post by Outspoken on May 26, 2015 18:49:16 GMT
nope, not a hill I'd want to die on but, I'm not a rule follower I respect your honesty about not being a rule follower. I am curious, though. Do you believe you are above rules? Everyone else should follow them, but not you? Also, if you get caught breaking a rule, do you accept your punishment? (Assuming there is punishment). Do you have children? If so, are they allowed to be rule breakers as well? Again, these are not questions intended to offend, I'm just curious. I believe some rules are ridiculous! But, I also understand that if I break them, and punishment is given, I must accept that as well.
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Post by shannoots on May 26, 2015 18:49:46 GMT
I haven't had an adult lie like that but I have had them talk about things I don't agree with and don't think my kids should hear. Instead of calling out the adult, I talk to my kids about it later. We have had some really good discussions when this kind of thing happens. We all talk and I ask questions and get my kids to think about it. For example, that might have been a small lie but what if the kid had been driving an actual car? That probably would have led into a bigger discussion on lying and consequences. I can't control other people but I can turn it into a learning experience for my kids.
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Post by Miss Lerins Momma on May 26, 2015 18:50:37 GMT
I read the OP as confronting the other adult in front of her kids, not the whole group. I have no problem with doing this and probably would have done it myself. Depending on my history with the person, I may have called them out in front of the group or done it privately. I also call out my adult friends for reading texts while driving or not wearing seatbelts . It isn't so much that the adult let a 15 year old drive that bugs me, but that they lied about the age to several other adults. I might not always agree with the rule, but I do want to model rule following behavior to my kids. We jet ski on the AZ side of Lake Havasu because the kids only needed to be 12 to ride by themselves (CA side is 16).
I called them out on it when I made my kids get off the golf cart, as soon as I found out about it. It was only me, my kids, the adult and the kid they were letting drive around. Not like a big group of people. Just the parties involved! Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
I did let the other adults that they lied too know how old the kid actually was, but not in front of my kids. I just walked up and let them all know he was 15, wouldn't be 16 until December and that was it. No other discussion.
Again, I don't care what people do on their own golf carts, but having my kids along for the ride when they were stopping and lying to other people who questioned his age was the biggest deal to me. I was fine with keeping it to myself and just making my kids get off the golf cart at first. But then they wanted to argue with me (in front of my kids) when they were lying and totally in the wrong.
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MDscrapaholic
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,592
Location: Down by the bay....
Jun 25, 2014 20:49:07 GMT
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Post by MDscrapaholic on May 26, 2015 18:56:10 GMT
I am a rule follower too, and I think you were right to call them out about it but maybe not in front of everyone.
Here's a thought... What if something had happened while the 15-year old was driving the golf cart? Who is responsible then? The cart owner or the person who lied? Some people think lying is okay until they get caught, and sometimes these little lies can have big consequences if someone gets hurt.
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Post by jumperhop on May 26, 2015 18:57:08 GMT
I am calling you out! There are no golf carts in camping! I would have said something. And around the kids to so they knew I wasn't ok with lying. Jen
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Post by femalebusiness on May 26, 2015 19:00:31 GMT
Well, I hope to talk to them and private, not in front of the kids or other family members. But I think I would've had to of said the same thing. I do get what you are saying but I believe that if someone lies in public they need to be called out in public...right now. None of that waiting to do it in private. The kids heard the lies, they should hear the call out. I hate liars.
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MerryMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,562
Jul 24, 2014 19:51:57 GMT
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Post by MerryMom on May 26, 2015 19:01:32 GMT
I would have said something similar to the person, but not in front of the kids or others. I would have told my own kids that lying about the age was wrong and that I handled it. However, you seemed hell-bent on "calling out" or "confronting" the person about the lie, so I guess you did what you thought best, but it seems like a lot of history is affecting your response.
I wouldn't say I was hell-bent on calling the person out. But the person lies a lot (there is history & I'm sure it affects my better judgement), so I just couldn't bite my tongue any longer, especially since my kids were involved. I came around the corner and caught them on the golf cart with the kid driving and it was a knee-jerk reaction to get my kids off the golf cart and to say something in front of everyone involved. The adult and the kid came back around wanting to argue about it after I made my kids get off the golfcart (in front of my kids who had by then told me that they were lying to others about him being 16) and at that point it escalated. It would have been better if the kids weren't present for all of it, but they have to know that lying is wrong. As a parent, I feel it is my job to teach them right from wrong, whereas the other adult, just wants to everyone to like them no matter what the consequences are.
You could have gotten your children out of the golf cart and then said to the adult in charge, "I will talk to you about this later" and then had the conversation later on. It appears that you "called out" or "confronted" a little more strident than necessary. You appear to want us to validate how you handled it. I don't disagree with ensuring my children's safety, and in your removing your children from the golf cart. But you also need to model correct behavior to your children on HOW to respond appropriately to the rule breaker. No???
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Post by mlynn on May 26, 2015 19:31:15 GMT
In those circumstances, you did not really have a choice. Personally I would not have allowed the kids to go with the adult family member. They have a history of questionable behavior.
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tanya2
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1604
Posts: 4,427
Jun 27, 2014 2:27:09 GMT
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Post by tanya2 on May 26, 2015 19:32:47 GMT
nope, not a hill I'd want to die on but, I'm not a rule follower I respect your honesty about not being a rule follower. I am curious, though. Do you believe you are above rules? Everyone else should follow them, but not you? Also, if you get caught breaking a rule, do you accept your punishment? (Assuming there is punishment). Do you have children? If so, are they allowed to be rule breakers as well? Again, these are not questions intended to offend, I'm just curious. I believe some rules are ridiculous! But, I also understand that if I break them, and punishment is given, I must accept that as well. no offense taken No, I do not believe I am above the rules. However in a lot of cases I feel many rules should just be guidelines. So many rules are just WAY too restrictive, and have been put in place because of a lack of general common sense! Needed to protect the stupid from themselves. I'm not a real black or white person but instead think that rules should have some bend to them depending upon the situation. Not sure where I draw the line on that actually, again totally depends on the situation. And my dh is FAR more liberal on this theory than I am, in fact we clash on some things over it occasionally. Being with him as long as I have been probably has contributed to my level of corruption on this LOL. And yes I have 2 kids, 15 & 19. I'm sure some will think I'm a horrible mom for how much freedom they are given in certain regards to rules. But it works for us & they are great kids. Do I accept my punishment if caught? Sure I do. As an example I'll confess, I just got a speeding ticket last week. Doing 94 in a 60 km zone. Yup I did it. Did I do it purposely - well kind of but admit I was preoccupied & didn't realize I was going as fast as I was, although I KNEW I was speeding. And totally didn't see the cop. So fine - my bad. I paid it, no fuss at all. ETA - this was on a country road, not in the city! Yikes, I don't go that fast on residential streets!! LOL As for a slightly underage driver in a golf cart, honestly to me not a big deal in the slightest. My dh has a golf cart & both my kids have been allowed to drive it around the field behind our house since they were 10. Sure not on a road, but in the case of a campground I wouldn't even think twice about it. My dd won't be eligible for her G1 learners permit until her 16th birthday in August, but I have thought about taking her to the near by farmers market parking lot when they're closed to let her practice driving a bit.
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Post by elaine on May 26, 2015 19:49:32 GMT
Kids can drive a car out on the roads at 15 with a permit and an adult in the car so to me a golfcart campground with an adult in the cart is no biggie and I definitely wouldn't cause drama over it.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 17:20:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 19:55:39 GMT
I love me some rules. I eat rules for breakfast. I'm also uncomfortably over protective. However, I'm having a hard time getting wadded over this, even the lying. As long as an adult was on the cart, no biggie.
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Post by eventhinker on May 26, 2015 20:02:36 GMT
In this situation I completely agree. In fact it happened with my family - my kids and their cousins. My sister really caused me grief because i wouldn't let my kids go if I knew the 15 year old was going to drive it.
I do think there is a teachable moment though for families when other members lie - we approached it with the age old "if Susie jumped off the bridge, would you do the same?"
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Post by littlemama on May 26, 2015 20:04:36 GMT
If someone was breaking a rule, and lying to others about it, in front of your children, would you call them out on the lie (a family member if that makes any difference)?
We had some drama while camping over the weekend. Where we camp, kids have to be 16 to drive the golf carts. This has been a rule since I was a kid, so over 15 years. Everyone in the whole campground knows the rules and they make sure it's enforced. My kids were on a golfcart with a family member who was letting a 15 year old drive. And anytime someone stopped them to ask if the kid was 16 (which several people did), the adult lied and said he was 16 (my kids told me about it because they know he isn't 16 yet).
When I found out what was going on, I confronted the adult in front of my kids, letting them know that my kids weren't allowed to be on the golf cart unless the adult was driving and the adult (and kid driving) of course got all defensive and said the kid was almost 16. I said "you know the rules." To me, almost 16 is NOT 16 (he won't be 16 until December, so it's not like his birthday is next week or something). I just repeated myself, that almost is not 16, so it's not good enough and the fact that they were lying to other adults who questioned it, while in front of my kids, who know the truth just made it even worse. I don't care what a person does on their own golfcart but when my kids are involved, then I do care.
Breaking rules and flat out lying about it is wrong to me, especially in front of younger and very impressionable kids.
What would the Peas have done in this situation?
A 16 year old is not an adult anyway, so I don't know that I would have addressed the lying, but I sure as heck would not want my child riding on a golf cart driven by a 15 OR 16 year old!! (I am the parent of a 17 year old, and although I know my ds is a very cautious driver, I would completely understand someone not wanting their child to be driven by him due to his age)
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peaname
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,390
Aug 16, 2014 23:15:53 GMT
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Post by peaname on May 26, 2015 20:05:39 GMT
It doesn't matter if you agree with the rule or not the rule is sixteen. I would tell my kids that they're not allowed to ride with the fifteen year old and that we follow rules in this family. But I wouldn't argue or cause drama with the other parents it's not worth it.
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Post by Miss Lerins Momma on May 26, 2015 20:05:56 GMT
Well, I hope to talk to them and private, not in front of the kids or other family members. But I think I would've had to of said the same thing. I do get what you are saying but I believe that if someone lies in public they need to be called out in public...right now. None of that waiting to do it in private. The kids heard the lies, they should hear the call out. I hate liars. That's exactly how I feel!
If you are going to lie to others, be prepared to be called out on it. No tip-toeing about it. My kids heard the lies, they need to know that the lies will be called out.
And you all are right with the insurance questions... what if something would have happened to my kids while they were on the golf cart with an underage driver driving it... who would have been responsible then?!
I do agree that some rules are too restrictive, but the "have to be 16 to drive a golf cart" rule has been in effect since I was a kid. So everyone who owns a camp there, knows the rules! This adult owns a camp and has since I was a kid and they know the rules, and they have known the rules since their own children were little!
I can't stand a liar either... that along with the fact that they lie about a lot of other stuff, probably helped contribute to my knee-jerk reaction of saying something in front of my kids.
And to the one who said I should model
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Post by Outspoken on May 26, 2015 20:13:21 GMT
I respect your honesty about not being a rule follower. I am curious, though. Do you believe you are above rules? Everyone else should follow them, but not you? Also, if you get caught breaking a rule, do you accept your punishment? (Assuming there is punishment). Do you have children? If so, are they allowed to be rule breakers as well? Again, these are not questions intended to offend, I'm just curious. I believe some rules are ridiculous! But, I also understand that if I break them, and punishment is given, I must accept that as well. no offense taken No, I do not believe I am above the rules. However in a lot of cases I feel many rules should just be guidelines. So many rules are just WAY too restrictive, and have been put in place because of a lack of general common sense! Needed to protect the stupid from themselves. I'm not a real black or white person but instead think that rules should have some bend to them depending upon the situation. Not sure where I draw the line on that actually, again totally depends on the situation. And my dh is FAR more liberal on this theory than I am, in fact we clash on some things over it occasionally. Being with him as long as I have been probably has contributed to my level of corruption on this LOL. And yes I have 2 kids, 15 & 19. I'm sure some will think I'm a horrible mom for how much freedom they are given in certain regards to rules. But it works for us & they are great kids. Do I accept my punishment if caught? Sure I do. As an example I'll confess, I just got a speeding ticket last week. Doing 94 in a 60 km zone. Yup I did it. Did I do it purposely - well kind of but admit I was preoccupied & didn't realize I was going as fast as I was, although I KNEW I was speeding. And totally didn't see the cop. So fine - my bad. I paid it, no fuss at all. ETA - this was on a country road, not in the city! Yikes, I don't go that fast on residential streets!! LOL As for a slightly underage driver in a golf cart, honestly to me not a big deal in the slightest. My dh has a golf cart & both my kids have been allowed to drive it around the field behind our house since they were 10. Sure not on a road, but in the case of a campground I wouldn't even think twice about it. My dd won't be eligible for her G1 learners permit until her 16th birthday in August, but I have thought about taking her to the near by farmers market parking lot when they're closed to let her practice driving a bit. See, all of that makes total sense to me. But, saying you aren't a rule follower, to me, was a tad exaggerated. By that, I mean, you aren't going around breaking rules on purpose, then screaming you're the victim! And for the record - slow down, young lady!
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scrappinmama
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,022
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on May 26, 2015 20:16:47 GMT
I probably would have talked to him in private, but I think you were totally fine with the way you handled it. I would talk to my kids about it as well, since they heard the lie.
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Post by apeacalledliz on May 26, 2015 20:29:36 GMT
If you saw them on the cart and immediately called out the adult for lying, how the heck did you know they had been lying to other campers about the driver's age? You were in your camper while all this was going on, then you came out to see them on the cart with the young driver and stopped them and got your kids off right? How did you know in that moment?
To me I would probably have just retrieved my kids, told them they aren't supposed to ride with anyone who is 16 yet and been done with it. But that's me, I'm not a huge rule follower when it comes to minor stuff.
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Post by scrapsuzy on May 26, 2015 20:35:45 GMT
I would've done exactly what you did, regardless of the issue. But given that it was about driving a golfcart, I especially would've. I live in a city where we have 90 miles of cartpaths, and more than half of the households own golfcarts (but don't necessarily play golf). Underage drivers are a HUGE problem here... heck, even the legal-age teen drivers are a problem on the paths. So I feel particularly strongly about this issue.
But whatever the issue, and with the additional history you've given... yeah, I would've done the same as you.
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Post by Miss Lerins Momma on May 26, 2015 20:47:12 GMT
If you saw them on the cart and immediately called out the adult for lying, how the heck did you know they had been lying to other campers about the driver's age? You were in your camper while all this was going on, then you came out to see them on the cart with the young driver and stopped them and got your kids off right? How did you know in that moment? To me I would probably have just retrieved my kids, told them they aren't supposed to ride with anyone who is 16 yet and been done with it. But that's me, I'm not a huge rule follower when it comes to minor stuff.
When I saw them on the cart, I made my kids get off immediately. I said something right then and there, that the kid was not old enough to drive and that the adult "knew the rules". Me and my kids went into our camper right then. My kids then told me that the adult had been lying to whoever stopped them and told them the kid was 16, when he was not. The adult and the 15 year old then came to our camper door, to confront us. That is when I told them that lying was wrong (my kids told me about them lying when they came in the camper). I didn't know they were lying (or that the 15 year old was driving until after the fact).
I did retrieve my kids as soon as I knew what was going on and made sure the adult knew why I was retrieving my kids.
My niece, who also camps down there, just turned 16 in March, the month before the camping season started. No one let her drive a golf cart until she was actually 16, like the rules state. Like I said, we all know the rules and those rules have been in place since I was a child.
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Post by pierkiss on May 26, 2015 20:57:00 GMT
No, I do not call people out on things in a public manner. It never achieves good results.
Honestly I wouldn't have said a word, except to my own children about not lying, that it's wrong, you have to be 16, blah blah blah. Then I would have made sure they didn't ride with that other adult and kid the rest of the trip.
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Post by apeacalledliz on May 26, 2015 20:57:57 GMT
That makes more sense and in that case, no I wouldn't have said anything additional after the fact. When I retrieved my two I would have said to them "you aren't allowed to ride with people who aren't 16 yet" and taken them inside. Your point has been made and there is very little drama... I really hate drama though and I certainly don't like being in the middle of drama.
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Post by eebud on May 26, 2015 21:06:23 GMT
We have a very similar situation at the lake club. The rule is that they have to be a licensed driver so it doesn't really matter how old they are as long as they are legal. People still let their kids drive golf carts and they are risking the state police coming in and handing out tickets as well as the Corp of Engineers stopping us from using golf carts on the roads. There have also been some fairly bad golf cart accidents. Young kids have turned their gold carts over taking curves too fast. We had someone turn over a golf cart a few months ago and sent 3 people, including an infant, to the hospital via ambulance. Thankfully, they were all released a few days later but it was scary. Lots of blood all over the road. Golf carts, while they can be fun for kids, can also be dangerous. The state considers the roads inside the club to be public roads and the rules of the road have to be followed which is why the driver must be licensed. If someone has a learner's permit, they can drive a golf cart with an adult the same way they can drive a car.
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sharlag
Drama Llama
I like my artsy with a little bit of fartsy.
Posts: 6,580
Location: Kansas
Jun 26, 2014 12:57:48 GMT
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Post by sharlag on May 26, 2015 21:09:12 GMT
I kind of agree that calling the adult out in front of everyone was drama-mongering.
But then I thought (and I've been thinking about this in relation to stuff that has gone on for years in my family)... why dignify or respect or help the liar avoid embarrassment? Maybe not on the first offense, but if the person is a continual liar (or whatever the offense...) -- why avoid a scene and let the person save face?
This struck a nerve with me, like I said, due to issues in my own family. We've always avoided confrontation and that has allowed really crappy behavior to continue for DECADES.
I know that it's not the same as a one-time liar about a golf cart. Perhaps just ignore me. It felt good typing that all out!
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Post by karen on May 26, 2015 21:19:00 GMT
I'm with you 100% on this one, including calling them out in front of your kids. ITA
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Ariana
Shy Member
Posts: 24
Nov 7, 2014 5:22:52 GMT
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Post by Ariana on May 26, 2015 21:22:07 GMT
I most definitely would have talked to them privately. I also would have talked to my kids about it privately, as well. There are two different issues going on. One is that they allowed a 15 year old to drive with your kids on board! The other is the lie. But either way, I don't think anyone on earth likes being confronted about anything with other people witnessing the confrontation.
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Post by 3dcrafter on May 26, 2015 21:41:07 GMT
I kind of agree that calling the adult out in front of everyone was drama-mongering. But then I thought (and I've been thinking about this in relation to stuff that has gone on for years in my family)... why dignify or respect or help the liar avoid embarrassment? Maybe not on the first offense, but if the person is a continual liar (or whatever the offense...) -- why avoid a scene and let the person save face? This struck a nerve with me, like I said, due to issues in my own family. We've always avoided confrontation and that has allowed really crappy behavior to continue for DECADES. I know that it's not the same as a one-time liar about a golf cart. Perhaps just ignore me. It felt good typing that all out! IMO causing a seen teaches children that we don't have to communicate in a mature way because we were either wronged,or the other person was doing something we perceive to be wrong. How we react to the other person is just as important as the explanation we give our children as to why we should or should not do something. I myself am flawed and I am(and have) going to break the rules at some point in my existence; whether I do so knowingly or not, I would hope the other person would be mature enough confront me in private, because although they may be in the right today, they might find the situation reversed in the future, when I may have to confront them; and I think they would like to have the same response from me should they find themselves in the wrong.
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Post by maryland on May 26, 2015 22:11:29 GMT
My husband and I are rule followers too. We go to the beach in the summer, and two of our kids have summer birthdays. There is a fun boat ride we do at least twice each trip. The cost for under 12 is lot less than for an adult ($7 for under 12 and $18 for over 12). Even though our girls turned 12 a week before the ride, we tell them the age and pay extra. We don't want to lie, and don't want our kids to think "badly" of us because we lied.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 17:20:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 22:57:12 GMT
I would have said something similar to the person, but not in front of the kids or others. I would have told my own kids that lying about the age was wrong and that I handled it. However, you seemed hell-bent on "calling out" or "confronting" the person about the lie, so I guess you did what you thought best, but it seems like a lot of history is affecting your response.
I wouldn't say I was hell-bent on calling the person out. But the person lies a lot (there is history & I'm sure it affects my better judgement), so I just couldn't bite my tongue any longer, especially since my kids were involved. I came around the corner and caught them on the golf cart with the kid driving and it was a knee-jerk reaction to get my kids off the golf cart and to say something in front of everyone involved. The adult and the kid came back around wanting to argue about it after I made my kids get off the golfcart (in front of my kids who had by then told me that they were lying to others about him being 16) and at that point it escalated. It would have been better if the kids weren't present for all of it, but they have to know that lying is wrong. As a parent, I feel it is my job to teach them right from wrong, whereas the other adult, just wants to everyone to like them no matter what the consequences are.
actually lying isn't wrong. in some cases it saves lives in the case of getting thrills on a golf cart, maybe not but i think in this case you over reacted but it sounds like you have issues with the person anyway
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Post by 4cliffdwellers on May 26, 2015 23:56:22 GMT
I'd have done the same thing, why sugar-coat bad behavior?
Also, I'm not sure where you are located, but here in PA, 15 year olds can NOT get their permit. You now have to be 16 to get a permit and wait at least 6 months to get your license.
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