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Post by jenjie on Jul 8, 2015 0:41:48 GMT
I totally disagree with the comments that it's better to be silent. I was very, very hurt by those who remained silent. A simple I'm sorry for your loss is much, much better than silence. And personally I was much more hurt than those who were silent and/ or missing than any awkward attempt at comfort. I understand that. I'm sorry.
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Post by jenjie on Jul 8, 2015 0:42:29 GMT
I am one of those who never knows the right thing to say. I know that there is no way that there are words that can come close to what I really want to say. I am sure that I muck it up and it loses something in the translation. This is the point where I hope that my intent comes through. I feel like it if I say I am sorry for your loss, it sounds so trite and insincere...but what I really mean is that I can not even begin to understand your grief and I am heartbroken for you and the loss of the anchor in your life. But even that doesn't do it really. ![:crying:](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/t4lmEAqHtTO6q6ksSmvP.jpg) I'm sorry is enough.
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Post by jenjie on Jul 8, 2015 0:45:17 GMT
Thank you for this. I like how you said "focus on those who responded perfectly." Yes. I know I could keep that OP up and nobody would think less of me. But for my sake i have no business being ugly about people who were trying to be kind, no matter how foolishly they came across. In the grand scheme of things I can't let that be the thing that robs me of peace. Thank you for your kindness/ I did see the OP and thought it was a tiny little bit out of character for you but not at all what I would call "ugly". You are normally the perfect picture of the strength and grace through all of this. BUT!!!!!!!!!!! What they said to you was very, very insensitive and you are only human and it is normal to feel offended a little. No, you should not hold on to those feelings but those feelings, in my opinion, are totally, TOTALLY justified. For me, it was not only the comments but the person saying them that made them so painful. Do not be hard on yourself for venting here... HUGS to you. Thank you for being honest. And you are probably right. Especially about that one comment my mother made about hospice. This was out of the blue when I hadn't even informed her of anything. People who have earned the right by walking it out with us get to talk to me about the hard things.
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Post by jenjie on Jul 8, 2015 0:53:16 GMT
I missed the OP but I can't imagine your being ugly. You have handled this situation with such grace and dignity. If you need a safe place to vent, this is a good one. I didn't say it on the other thread, but I am so sorry for your loss. Fred was a wonderful man who will be greatly missed. May his memory be a comfort. Thank you
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Post by jenjie on Jul 8, 2015 0:57:54 GMT
I'm sorry people have upset you. They do mean well. Try to save it all up as stuff you can laugh about later on (and bring to the peas ... it's okay) (although I didn't see the OP, so maybe it was really beyond the pale) and not let it really hurt. I'll tell you one thing ... I know people said some weird things to me when my DH died, but 20 years on, I really don't remember who said what. What I do remember is the people I thought were friends that I never heard a word from. Ever again. ![:thumbdown:](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/SCylSBljj3e3QKjxF2vn.jpg) Lucy I'm sorry. ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/mYSUyHtG9Jrcmm_ydVcK.jpg) I'm begInning to understand. You know what, my intention in bringing it to the board was to laugh. About the dog. I showed my girlfriends who were horrified but we all laughed! But then I brought in things that actually hurt me and I took it too far so I knew I had to pull back.
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Post by jenjie on Jul 8, 2015 1:02:23 GMT
I've dealt with more than my fair share of death and loss and have heard countless stupid things. What finally helped me not explode was to realize that as thoughtless as they were, they meant well, and they probably didn't have the experience with loss to help them know better, so in a way I was glad for them that they DIDN'T really have any perspective because it meant they hadn't gone through that kind of grief. Looking at it that way made me stop wanting to pop someone. But that doesn't make whatever they said ok, and I'm sorry that you're having to endure pain induced by this on top of your already great pain. Lots of people begin a phrase intended to console with "at least...." I know that no matter what the "at least," even a very good "at least," you'd still rather have your Fred back and that's ok. We're missing him with you and for you. I'm so sorry for your loss. He sounds like he was a great man and he left a wonderful legacy. The way you speak of him speaks to his goodness, and to the great love you shared. Some people also just deal with grief differently. My husband cringed at a few things his immediate family said when his Dad died. It wasn't that they hadn't experienced the loss, it's just that their perspective was different. The "better place" is a good example. His mother took great comfort in her husband of almost 50 years being in a better place and said it A LOT. There's no doubt at all she was in pain and grieving and that provided comfort to her. Unfortunately, my husband doesn't have the same faith in an afterlife as his mother, and so those words offered zero comfort to him and at times were down right abrasive. That's interesring. I don't love "a better place " much myself. I don't mind if you say it to me but when it comes from people who believe as strongly as I do, "a better place" sounds vague and weak. I know it's just semantics. My gf used that on me the other day, somebody I am really close with. I joked with her that she could do better than that. And don't worry We talk every day, I didn't pounce on the ONE thing she said to me.
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Post by jenjie on Jul 8, 2015 1:05:01 GMT
Don't compare the death of your pet to the death of a loved one. No matter how much you love your dog and it's a member of your family. Just don't. It won't come off well. Something similar happened to me after my daddy died. I met some friends for dinner about a week after he passed away; one of them had a dog that had died the day before. As we were waiting for our table, she said something to me along the lines of "it's been a rough week." I thought she meant rough for me so I replied, "It really sucks." Then she said, "I don't know what I'm going to do without her (dog) - I've had her 10 years" and then went on and on about it. I just stared at her then turned and walked away. I hadn't seen her at all since my dad died - she didn't mention one word to me about him. Nothing. My feelings were so so hurt. ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/mYSUyHtG9Jrcmm_ydVcK.jpg) Please know that I am so very sorry you are going through this and I've been thinking about and praying for you and your children. <3 ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/mYSUyHtG9Jrcmm_ydVcK.jpg) . That's not right. I'm sorry.
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Post by jenjie on Jul 8, 2015 1:06:10 GMT
I didn't see the original post, but from my experiences as a hospital chaplain I can probably come up with all sorts of possibilities as to what it was people said. Mostly people are just thoughtless. And I don't mean that in a totally negative way -- many of them are most likely very nice people. But they are just not thinking, therefore they are "thoughtless". One of the worst I think, said in total sympathy and love, is "I know exactly how you feel." Well, no you don't. You might have had a similar experience but we are all individuals and no one feels exactly like another person does. I understand that the motivation behind saying that is "I've had this same experience, so I can empathize with you, and I understand you..." But, better to just say "I am so sorry" and leave it at that. If the person knows you also lost your husband/child/mother they might say "Didn't your mother die last year?" and *then* you can refer to that. But you don't get to bring it up first, certainly not early in the person's grieving. Anyway, I am very sorry. I hope your church is continuing to support you as they did before your dh died, and that you have good friends and family around you. Oops. I have written exactly what you said not to say right after your post. My husband of almost 30 years passed away suddenly just over four months ago. I was not trying to be insensitive by saying I understand her situation. I hope it didn't come across that way. You did NOT do what she is talking about. You are speaking from your own place of experience and hurt. I'm so sorry .
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Post by jenjie on Jul 8, 2015 1:07:30 GMT
Jen, I am sorry for whatever was said to you. I truly am. I do get where you are coming from because in weeks or a couple of months I will be in your shoes. My mom is nearly gone. She is still alive, but her mind is gone. The cancer is spreading as well so, yeah, I hear you. (And I just lost my dog a month ago ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/Q_m8lDOvc_3Le3r1GKdf.jpg) ) One thing I asked the Peas when the grief was bad (when my sister died) "When is it going to get better? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) " and they said it would get better soon. It was day two after she had passed and I wanted it to GO AWAY. I wanted to be done with this whole grief process! EFF the GRIEF! They promised me it would go away...and you know what? It did. Gradually every day life got better. (I am crying as I write this so please bear with me). I am broken hearted you lost Fred. All of us Peas grew to love him and were praying, wishing, rooting for him in whatever capacity we could. I wish in the days to come that God grants you warmth to heal your sorrow and brings to mind little things and big things Fred said that made you fall in love with him. My prayers are with you and your family. :love:X1000! Thank you. I'm sorry you have to walk this road.
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Post by jenjie on Jul 8, 2015 1:10:43 GMT
I just came back so I'm not sure what's going on but I didn't want to back out without saying I'm sorry for your loss Jen. Thank you Sam. My husband passed this week after 8 months of cancer. The folks at Pennsylvania Hospital at 8th and Spruce took excellent care of us.
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quiltz
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Post by quiltz on Jul 8, 2015 1:13:27 GMT
jenjie, I could write a book of things to not say, not do and what to do when many years ago my mom passed from cancer and 3 weeks later my dd was killed in a single car collision (where she was a passenger, she was a sr in hs).
Let your imagination go wild and you will still not hit all the bits that were and still are said about me. This month my dd would have a significant birthday. It really hurts that this special birthday will not be recognised, as it would be if she were still alive. A friend doesn't "get" why I am reluctant to help her with the planning & helping for her dd's same significant birthday. I should be "over it by now". Guess I am not over it by now and doubt that I will ever be "over it".
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caro
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Post by caro on Jul 8, 2015 1:18:34 GMT
Speaking of insensitive people, when my DH died, I was pregnant with our second child. Two women from my church at the time asked to come by. I said sure. Well, they used it as a time to catch up with each, laughing and talking about things I was not a part of. Plus, they each had recently had babies and never acknowledged my pregnancy. It was hurtful and weird for me and I had a difficult time forgiving and forgetting it. Since that time, both of these women suffered extreme loss. I've often wondered what might have been said to them during their grief.
I have forgiven but obviously not forgotten as it's been 40 years.
As I said in my earlier post, I know I've said insensitive things to people even though I know better. I'm glad you can joke and laugh about this subject with your good friends. It helps.
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eleezybeth
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Post by eleezybeth on Jul 8, 2015 1:22:44 GMT
Doh! No she didn't. Really? Is this normal selfish behavior for this person or out of character? I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but uhm, what?? Sadly, my mother is a one-upper and I can totally see her doing this.
When my father died, my brother and I were both young adults. A friend of my dad's approached us and said, "Well the stress you kids gave him finally killed him." I love me some good sarcasm and I am totally giving her the benefit of the doubt and calling it sarcasm vs. her just being a royal biatch. But we know the truth... it really hurt my brother and honestly I don't know if he's ever recovered from that comment.
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Post by flanz on Jul 8, 2015 1:23:08 GMT
I read it. I just want to let you know I understand. Very few people know the right words at the right time. Their bungled attempts hide their own pain, discomfort, or need to make it better. Focus on those who responded perfectly. Hopefully, the others will learn from them. I am sorry for your loss. You grace is admirable. But you are also allowed to be angry and throw pillows. You are allowed to be upset about what others said. You are allowed to feel what you feel. This is a new experience for you. Go easy on yourself. Take care. Thank you for this. I like how you said "focus on those who responded perfectly." Yes. I know I could keep that OP up and nobody would think less of me. But for my sake i have no business being ugly about people who were trying to be kind, no matter how foolishly they came across. In the grand scheme of things I can't let that be the thing that robs me of peace. Thank you for your kindness/ I did not see your OP, Jenjie, but I do think people put their feet in their mouths sometimes because they just don't know any better, not that they are trying to be cruel. Regardless, words do hurt sometimes, and you are wise to feel the hurt and then you can really let it go instead of letting it fester. Sounds like you've quickly moved through that process. (((HUGS)))
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Post by blarneygirl on Jul 8, 2015 1:23:27 GMT
jenjie, I could write a book of things to not say, not do and what to do when many years ago my mom passed from cancer and 3 weeks later my dd was killed in a single car collision (where she was a passenger, she was a sr in hs).
Let your imagination go wild and you will still not hit all the bits that were and still are said about me. This month my dd would have a significant birthday. It really hurts that this special birthday will not be recognised, as it would be if she were still alive. A friend doesn't "get" why I am reluctant to help her with the planning & helping for her dd's same significant birthday. I should be "over it by now". Guess I am not over it by now and doubt that I will ever be "over it". I'm saying a prayer for you while you pass through this difficult month. I'm aghast that your friend can't understand this.
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Post by AussieMeg on Jul 8, 2015 1:26:06 GMT
Jenjie, I didn't see your OP, but I'm sorry that people have said insensitive things that have hurt you. And I am truly sorry about the loss of your Fred. You know what, this place can be your safe place, where you can come and vent as much as you need to. We're not going to think any less of you if you let out a bit of frustration every now and then. Even though we're really all strangers, we all know that you do have a good heart. And now here is my funny/SMH moment: My sister died when she was only 16yo. At her funeral, my maternal grandmother said to my dad "Don't worry Bill, worse things happen at sea." ![:shocked:](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/JvSt42CUoZ9LG952aAaF.jpg) Now, I'd hazard a guess that my dad would think that nothing in this world was worse than having to bury his daughter. He's never forgotten (or forgiven, probably) that comment.
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Post by flanz on Jul 8, 2015 1:31:38 GMT
jenjie, I could write a book of things to not say, not do and what to do when many years ago my mom passed from cancer and 3 weeks later my dd was killed in a single car collision (where she was a passenger, she was a sr in hs).
Let your imagination go wild and you will still not hit all the bits that were and still are said about me. This month my dd would have a significant birthday. It really hurts that this special birthday will not be recognised, as it would be if she were still alive. A friend doesn't "get" why I am reluctant to help her with the planning & helping for her dd's same significant birthday. I should be "over it by now". Guess I am not over it by now and doubt that I will ever be "over it". How very tragic. Sending you hugs and good wishes. (((HUGS)))
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Post by AussieMeg on Jul 8, 2015 1:33:13 GMT
In my twenties, I remember when my grandmother was dying..I went to go see her one last time and I knew it was the last time and that within hours, she would be gone. I sat there holding her hand and talked about work. WORK. I still beat myself up over it. I did tell her I loved her and all but I couldn't bring myself to say goodbye. See, this is one I'm going to take exception with. I'm a new grandmother, and I can imagine nothing better on my last day than having my grandchild sit with me and tell me about their day. Let this one go @carblover443. ![:love:](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/W4b_Om5roEadLiOzGo_l.jpg) @carblover443 I totally agree with MorningPerson, 100%. I am *certain* that your grandmother would have loved hearing about your life, your work, just normal day to day stuff. She knew you loved her. That's all that matters. When my sister was dying, my parents left me alone in her room to say my goodbyes. I couldn't speak. I just sat there holding her hand. There's a teeny tiny part of me that wished I had been able to talk to her. But she knew I loved her. I promised myself that I would not feel guilty about anything that was or was not said.
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Post by choppedliver on Jul 8, 2015 2:43:33 GMT
I just came back so I'm not sure what's going on but I didn't want to back out without saying I'm sorry for your loss Jen. Thank you Sam. My husband passed this week after 8 months of cancer. The folks at Pennsylvania Hospital at 8th and Spruce took excellent care of us. I'm so sorry Jen. Hope this isn't one of the stupid things people say, but at least he was in an excellent hospital so he was given the best possible chance.
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Post by jenjie on Jul 8, 2015 2:47:15 GMT
jenjie, I could write a book of things to not say, not do and what to do when many years ago my mom passed from cancer and 3 weeks later my dd was killed in a single car collision (where she was a passenger, she was a sr in hs).
Let your imagination go wild and you will still not hit all the bits that were and still are said about me. This month my dd would have a significant birthday. It really hurts that this special birthday will not be recognised, as it would be if she were still alive. A friend doesn't "get" why I am reluctant to help her with the planning & helping for her dd's same significant birthday. I should be "over it by now". Guess I am not over it by now and doubt that I will ever be "over it". Ahhhh I remember you sharing your dear dd with us. It won't be the same but if you'd permit us to celebrate her with you, maybe share some stories about her on or around her birthday. Is her name Cassie? Please forgive me if I remembered incorrectly.
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Post by jenjie on Jul 8, 2015 2:48:49 GMT
Thank you Sam. My husband passed this week after 8 months of cancer. The folks at Pennsylvania Hospital at 8th and Spruce took excellent care of us. I'm so sorry Jen. Hope this isn't one of the stupid things people say, but at least he was in an excellent hospital so he was given the best possible chance. He was. I felt so stupid after I told you what hospital but I felt like I had to give them a plug in case you ever have to go there. LOL. Their food is nasty though.
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Post by jenjie on Jul 8, 2015 2:50:22 GMT
Jenjie, I didn't see your OP, but I'm sorry that people have said insensitive things that have hurt you. And I am truly sorry about the loss of your Fred. You know what, this place can be your safe place, where you can come and vent as much as you need to. We're not going to think any less of you if you let out a bit of frustration every now and then. Even though we're really all strangers, we all know that you do have a good heart. And now here is my funny/SMH moment: My sister died when she was only 16yo. At her funeral, my maternal grandmother said to my dad "Don't worry Bill, worse things happen at sea." ![:shocked:](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/JvSt42CUoZ9LG952aAaF.jpg) Now, I'd hazard a guess that my dad would think that nothing in this world was worse than having to bury his daughter. He's never forgotten (or forgiven, probably) that comment. [ Wait what?? Oh my.
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quiltz
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Post by quiltz on Jul 8, 2015 3:02:06 GMT
jenjie, Yes, you have remembered correctly. She was a kind and loving dd, who loved her Lord & Saviour very much. She was coming home from an Easter Sunrise Service.
Isaiah 57:1-2 has given me much comfort and peace. Perhaps these two verses will give you some comfort as well. I came across these verses from Max Lucado's book, Travelling Light. The book is a study on Psalm 23.
Wishing you the peace that passes all understanding during this difficult time. Peace be with you.
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Post by choppedliver on Jul 8, 2015 3:15:19 GMT
I'm so sorry Jen. Hope this isn't one of the stupid things people say, but at least he was in an excellent hospital so he was given the best possible chance. He was. I felt so stupid after I told you what hospital but I felt like I had to give them a plug in case you ever have to go there. LOL. Their food is nasty though. I totally get it, lol. I'm only 15 mins from there. I hear all good things about them and Jeff.
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Post by Crack-a-lackin on Jul 8, 2015 3:23:02 GMT
I think people try to do the best they can to come up with something comforting to say when faced with death. I'm sorry people didn't think things through before the spoke. When I had my first miscarriage, my SIL told me it was okay because "the baby was probably retarded or something." I know she was trying to help but I still recall those words more than 35 years later. My SIL said the exact same thing. It still hurts and it's been 23 years. I don't usually know what to say either, so I try to just say I'm sorry and let them know I'm there for them.
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Post by jenjie on Jul 8, 2015 3:27:03 GMT
jenjie, Yes, you have remembered correctly. She was a kind and loving dd, who loved her Lord & Saviour very much. She was coming home from an Easter Sunrise Service.
Isaiah 57:1-2 has given me much comfort and peace. Perhaps these two verses will give you some comfort as well. I came across these verses from Max Lucado's book, Travelling Light. The book is a study on Psalm 23.
Wishing you the peace that passes all understanding during this difficult time. Peace be with you. Thank you those are good verses. I can't bring myself to be sad for him. Just missing him and overwhelmed at what it means for us. I'm so glad I remembered Cassie's name correctly! "Cassie" wanted to insert itself on each line. I knew it would be a gift if I got it right but i didn't want to hurt you if I had made a mistake. Cassie is not forgotten.
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Post by donna on Jul 8, 2015 3:33:03 GMT
jenjie, like AussieMeg said earlier, this is your safe place. You can share whatever you need to here. I am so sorry you had to go through losing Fred and that it happened so quickly. Hugs
When my fil died suddenly of a heart attack we were so shocked. It was a difficult time for us because my dh had lost his Mom 7 years before. My fil had been taking tons of expensive vitamins because of his best friend. We found hundreds of dollars of vitamins when we were cleaning up. The best friend actually asked us if he could have all the vitamins to give to someone else because they were really good for heart health. Our mouths all hit the floor because obviously they did not work since my fil had dropped dead suddenly from a heart attack. We still talk about that 16 years later.
People just do not know how to deal with death. As a society, we just don't do a good job at teaching appropriate responses.
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Post by PEArfect on Jul 8, 2015 3:36:51 GMT
I didn't read the OP, but I can imagine. The best thing you can say is "I'm sorry for your loss." If you say, "if you need anything please let me know" actually mean it! Actions speak louder than words.
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MDscrapaholic
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Post by MDscrapaholic on Jul 8, 2015 3:47:32 GMT
It's been four and a half years since my DH passed away and I remember the good things that happened at the funeral and fellowship. The bad things are forgotten and forgiven. It does take time, but you will get there.
I know you miss him. I know that you are trying to find your new "normal." I am sorry that some people don't respond to your loss in an appropriate way. It hurts. It's okay to vent to us here. We understand. And like you said, we can all learn something from this.
Even though I didn't know Fred, I feel the world lost a very special person. I am sorry.
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Post by FurryP on Jul 8, 2015 4:11:18 GMT
Here is another thing NOT to do:
DO NOT ask the neighbor (or anyone!!!).....if the deceased's house is for rent, if the furniture being sold, or what is happening with the car.
NO!!! And if it was for sale you would be the last one on this planet that I would sell it to. I would burn it instead! Yes, several people asked less than 24 hours after my mother's passing. I cannot write on a public board, what I think of theses people.
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