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Post by Zee on Jul 14, 2015 0:15:33 GMT
I think the self depreciation is a topic you need to discuss with your dd. Just because someone gives advice or instruction does not mean she has to take it to that level. It has nothing to do with how it is presented but everything to do with your dd's perception of herself. She should be able to separate how others view her from how she views herself and be able to be realistic about changes in her behavior without cutting herself down or apologizing for being herself. Perhaps. Perhaps not. Doesn't sound very much like my daughter. And she was definitely not the only one in her program who adopted the self-deprecating thing; I noticed it in other students' blogs and stories. I think the self-deprecating thing is more a symptom of a cultural trend - a schtick some have adopted - as Country Ham described on Page 1, and less a generalized problem that my daughter has with identity or image. She has anecdotes about specific things that were said to her or her friends in various countries...assumptions that were made. As I said in another post, I should not have written her figurative "apologized my way through Europe" without explaining further. They didn't literally apologize, but they probably just chose feeling apologetic as opposed to feeling defensive. And now I've gone over the Meta Brink. More bathroom stories, please. Poor kid, I hate that she was made to feel that way. I'd never apologize for being American and I thank my lucky stars that my ancestors came here, where we have a summer hot enough for me to run around in yoga pants and flip flops. Apologizing fur being American is as wrong to me as apologizing for being white, which I have known people to do. You be the best "you" you can be and make no apologies for things you can't change IMO. The only thing that ever really made me cringe about being American is that country don't that came out I think about the time of 9/11 about "we'll put a boot in your ass, cuz that's the American way"...good Lord. Now THAT'S apology worthy! Sorry I don't know who that is, I'm sure everyone else does but I avoid country music like the plague. It was played a lot then though. Hank Williams Jr? Idk. Ugghhh
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Post by hop2 on Jul 14, 2015 0:15:54 GMT
Two years ago, we were on the boat back from the Aran Islands in Ireland. Everyone was exhausted and looking forward to a quiet ride back. A gentleman from Ohio (I assume, based on his Ohio State jacket) yelled the whole way back. Talked 10 decibels louder than everyone else, guffawed...just behaved like a buffoon. Could it have been anyone from any country? Of course. But because he was so clearly American, it just reinforced the stereotype of the loud, obnoxious American. I was embarrassed because I felt like everyone was thinking: "ugh. Americans." So I don't mind people getting reminders. Not because Americans are always assholes but because the perception exists that we are. See it's funny how places get a reputation. There are wonderful people all over the world and there are real jerks in every culture. Perhaps it's time to take each human one at s time individually. Treat everyone with respect until they deserve less. There isn't any reason *you* ought to be embarrassed unless he was your friend or relative. A jerk is a jerk no matter what culture they come from, * we* global we need to recognize that and not use broad brushes. AND what if he was loud because he's partly deaf? So broad brush reputations don't always hold up as true. Like the reputation that the French and specifically 'Paris' dislike Americans and will be rude and ignore you etc. Yet they were wonderful, helpful and welcoming, even though I speak literally 3 words of french. They were more helpful and welcoming than Chicago where I was supposed to enjoy that 'Midwestern hospitality' . Ha, they were no more hospitable than New Yorkers, ( who are supposed to be rude) and the police were much less helpful and way more obnoxious. Where we did meet some real rude jerks was in London. Like When my train pass didn't scan right away so the bitchy jerk beind me physically shoved me thru the turnstile anyway ( knocking me down in the process ) then stepped over me. Sweet. Or The teens picking on a disabled man on the train were horrible we had to tell them to stop because no one else on the train bothered. I wonder how long they'd have hit him if we didn't say anything ( and take our phones out and threaten to take pictures ) the whole train stood there and did nothing while they smacked him around? Like wtf? Then, when the ceiling literally fell down on us at 3am in our hotel room the snotty hotel manager literally snarled at us for having a problem with that. Kind of a 'God damn Americans can't deal with a ceiling falling on them how dare they.' Attitude. Lol Yea we had a few poor experiences in London, but after all that I still haven't thought that 'all' People from London are jerks or classified 'all' British as rude. Of course not because it's just not true. There was a kind gentleman who helped me up after the bitch stepped over me, the disabled man was kind enough to go have a cider with us and showed us a fantastic restaurant, gave us a tip for the safe route back to the train station. Etc etc. the wonderful peopke far out weighed the jerks. Blanket statements like that don't work, it's never correct, and if you lump people together like that then your the one who'll lose out. Take each person one by one, treat them respectfully, give people the benefit of doubt if something's different than you expect and see where you go from there. That's how I've met wonderful people literally everywhere I've travelled.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 2, 2024 22:04:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2015 0:32:50 GMT
I'm not offering any opinion, just my observations from my personal travels:
I worked for a German doctor for 5 years. I loved her to bits, and we became very good friends, however she constantly was complaining about America. Our people were "stupid," our education was poor, our ideas were worthless, and we were shallow. One day, I finally had enough, and asked her why she ever chose to live here if it was so bad. She said it was because she could make so much more money here than in Germany. So much for being shallow.
In Punta Cana, my friends and I were treated very well. I was told that it is because Americans brought gifts for the children and tipped well, and no other nationality did so. In Mexico, it is very similar. In the 6 times I've been there, I've found that Americans were treated very well...but again, we were the only ones tipping. I've only once encountered a rude "local" and that was a woman who thought it was ok to stare and make comments about my handicapped mother. She didn't know that I know just enough Spanish to know what she was saying to her friends about my mother needing a motorized wheelchair. Everyone else we encountered was friendly, and helpful, and never once made fun of my very poor Spanish. While there, however, there were quite a few German tourists...who pushed their way through lines, ate food directly off the buffet and shouted their conversations while smoking constantly.
When I was getting ready to travel to Paris, I also encountered much advice online about "fitting in." I did my best to follow the guidelines...learning enough French to order food, ask for the bathroom or directions, please and thank you, etc. I dressed in dark or beige clothing, and tried to speak quietly. It was to no avail, because we were treated very poorly. We were refused a table at a restaurant, openly sneered at and had a door slammed in our faces when asking for directions (in French) at a tourist info booth. I was also shoved down and screamed at by a woman who thought I was standing too close to the bike path. We tried to order bread in a restaurant, and were refused by the waiter because, "you look like you don't need it." They can call us "rude Americans" all they want, but my impression was the Parisian's were ruder than anyone I've ever met.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jul 14, 2015 0:33:56 GMT
In a weird twist, I overheard someone walking in the opposite direction on the Pat Tillman bridge at Hoover Dam talking about this thread this afternoon! Which refupea was also at Hoover Dam today??!!?? See? Good thing they were American. They were loud enough to overhear.
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Post by Zee on Jul 14, 2015 0:39:55 GMT
Regarding being loud, I have noticed that people on the east coast are in general much louder than in the Midwest, at least the part I'm from. I don't understand the need to conduct every conversation and transaction at top volume. Sometimes in restaurants it's overwhelming. Beauty parlors are the worst. I expect it in a noisy bar, but at the shoe store? The grocery? The doctor's office? Turn it down about five notches!
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Post by cookiemum on Jul 14, 2015 0:46:52 GMT
27 years ago, when I was an exchange student my junior year of college, we were given a talk on this very subject. Not so much that we shouldn't try to act "American" more that we shouldn't be surprised at the stereotypes that exist and that we'd be blamed for everything from food to politics you name it.
Unfortunately there are loud obnoxious American tourists. There are also loud obnoxious tourists from almost every country out there. No one remembers the quiet respectful ones. I'ts the rude big mouths that stand out.
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Post by AussieMeg on Jul 14, 2015 1:18:41 GMT
However, don't forget that other country's tourists are also stereo-typed.....have a good laugh at the fact that a lot of Europe, especially the summer tourist areas, (the world, maybe?) sees Brits as being loud, drunk and obnoxious. Oh, and drunk. In addition to that, they are drunk hooligans who only want egg and chips, or maybe ham and chips! Hey, how dare you..... Loud, drunk and obnoxious is the AUSTRALIAN stereotypical tourist thankyouverymuch!!! (Except we want a meat pie and chips, not bloody ham!! )
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eleezybeth
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,784
Jun 28, 2014 20:42:01 GMT
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Post by eleezybeth on Jul 14, 2015 1:28:35 GMT
When I was getting ready to travel to Paris, I also encountered much advice online about "fitting in." I did my best to follow the guidelines...learning enough French to order food, ask for the bathroom or directions, please and thank you, etc. I dressed in dark or beige clothing, and tried to speak quietly. It was to no avail, because we were treated very poorly. We were refused a table at a restaurant, openly sneered at and had a door slammed in our faces when asking for directions (in French) at a tourist info booth. I was also shoved down and screamed at by a woman who thought I was standing too close to the bike path. We tried to order bread in a restaurant, and were refused by the waiter because, "you look like you don't need it." They can call us "rude Americans" all they want, but my impression was the Parisian's were ruder than anyone I've ever met. I have always defended the French and their horrible reputations towards tourists. After visiting Paris umpteen times, I felt the reputation was not worthy as I always had lovely service, kind assistance when I was lost, no issues... And then I went to Paris Disney and to hell with that! I'd never, ever been treated so poorly- especially at a Disney resort.
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Post by AussieMeg on Jul 14, 2015 1:40:22 GMT
And now I've gone over the Meta Brink. More bathroom stories, please. Sure, your wish is my command! A couple of years ago my (female) boss went to China on business, to visit the factory. Their toilets were holes in the floor that you had to squat over, and there was no toilet paper. The first time she had to go to the toilet at the factory, 2 Chinese women actually followed her into the room so they could watch and giggle at the Western woman trying to wee whilst squatting over a hole. They thought it was *hilarious*. After that, she went back to her hotel any time she needed to use the toilet. In a weird twist, I overheard someone walking in the opposite direction on the Pat Tillman bridge at Hoover Dam talking about this thread this afternoon! Which refupea was also at Hoover Dam today??!!?? Are you serious?!?!?! That is freaky funny!! You definitely should have stopped to ask who she was!
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Post by RiverIsis on Jul 14, 2015 1:54:30 GMT
My stepdaughter visited Russia in 1996 as part of a student exchange (not a year long exchange student thing) and they received a similar type of letter with the travel packet information. I agree that it seems to be a "thing" to bash Americans. Oh yes, these places want the tourism dollars, but not the tourists!! I keep my tourists dollars in the US and in Ohio and I've visited many nice places here in Ohio. I have detected a snide reference to Americans in many British films and TV shows as it appears to be "comedic". And France, forget about it. Sorry, but you're not going to get a pass on that - It is like every American film where the British are the baddies/villians?!?!?! I would hazard a guess that the snide references are a bit of mischievous payback.
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Post by RiverIsis on Jul 14, 2015 2:10:19 GMT
There are assholes everywhere, we just seem to have more than our fair share and unfortunately these people represent our country as tourists. Believe me, people will know you are a tourist. You can't hide that. i think the point is don't let them think poorly of you. Say please and thank you in their language. Excuse me is another good one. The clothes aren't something I would worry about. Old style Germans wear dark or beige. Younger generations wear everything. Depends on what you mean by "excuse me" - I know in England I was told that excuse me is an interruption, "pardon" me is asking to move through or past. Language nuances.
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chendra
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,860
Location: The 33rd State
Jun 27, 2014 16:58:50 GMT
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Post by chendra on Jul 14, 2015 4:15:50 GMT
eleezybeth, I'm so curious as to how to act like a German tourist Will you elaborate a bit? I ask because my husband and I are often assumed to be German when we travel and we have no idea why. We could simply be walking down the street or entering a restaurant and people would "Guten Tag!" us. Is it something we're doing? Not doing? Our general appearance? One theory I had is that maybe we were visiting some countries that were popular with Germans, but didn't get as many American visitors at the time, so it was more of an assumption than anything in particular about us. We may never know.
Well, I see my quote didn't work. Let's see if I can fix that. Nope, apparently I can't. Alas.
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Post by Megan on Jul 16, 2015 0:19:58 GMT
Two years ago, we were on the boat back from the Aran Islands in Ireland. Everyone was exhausted and looking forward to a quiet ride back. A gentleman from Ohio (I assume, based on his Ohio State jacket) yelled the whole way back. Talked 10 decibels louder than everyone else, guffawed...just behaved like a buffoon. Could it have been anyone from any country? Of course. But because he was so clearly American, it just reinforced the stereotype of the loud, obnoxious American. I was embarrassed because I felt like everyone was thinking: "ugh. Americans." So I don't mind people getting reminders. Not because Americans are always assholes but because the perception exists that we are. Well that's because he's an Ohio State fan. ;-) Sorry, Michigan fan here.
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Post by Merge on Jul 16, 2015 1:13:43 GMT
Honestly, I am loathe to travel abroad, and this is why. A fat American from Texas? I think I'd be an object of scorn the minute I hit town.
It's frustrating because I try really hard not to judge the wide variety of cultural differences I experience here every day - the families from west Africa who do not wear deodorant, the Israelis whose abrupt manner comes off as very rude to me, the Muslim families who with withdraw their children from my class because they believe singing and dancing are evil. I don't see why I should spend hard-earned money and precious vacation time to go to another country and be treated rudely or mocked when I would never act that way toward a visitor or immigrant to my country.
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Post by misadventurous on Jul 16, 2015 1:55:46 GMT
However, don't forget that other country's tourists are also stereo-typed.....have a good laugh at the fact that a lot of Europe, especially the summer tourist areas, (the world, maybe?) sees Brits as being loud, drunk and obnoxious. Oh, and drunk. In addition to that, they are drunk hooligans who only want egg and chips, or maybe ham and chips! Hey, how dare you..... Loud, drunk and obnoxious is the AUSTRALIAN stereotypical tourist thankyouverymuch!!! (Except we want a meat pie and chips, not bloody ham!! ) I saw this rather ironic poster in Sydney a number of years ago!
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Post by k8smom on Jul 16, 2015 2:03:43 GMT
In spite of being raised on the concept of the ugly Americans, I see a lot of those too. Maybe because they still within our own country and feel comfortable? I don't know, but they are here as travelers as well. I have never in all my 53 years heard the term, "Ugly Americans"... what does this imply?
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Post by RiverIsis on Jul 16, 2015 2:10:25 GMT
In spite of being raised on the concept of the ugly Americans, I see a lot of those too. Maybe because they still within our own country and feel comfortable? I don't know, but they are here as travelers as well. I have never in all my 53 years heard the term, "Ugly Americans"... what does this imply? It has to do with ugly behaviors - loud, rowdy, obnoxious, inconsiderate, "over sexed and over here"(took that from WW2), and expecting everything to be like America or constantly complaining that it is bigger and better in America.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jul 16, 2015 3:47:15 GMT
I have never in all my 53 years heard the term, "Ugly Americans"... what does this imply? "The Ugly American" was a novel. I read it a million years ago and it was old then...so, probably set in the 1950s. It was about a well-intentioned but short-sighted American diplomat in an Indochina/Vietnam-like country. Honestly, I forget the plot, but basically, the guy missteps because he doesn't understand the culture, language, history of the country he's working in. Since then, it's just become a catchphrase for boorish Americans tourists - or non-tourist Americans who want to impose American solutions, culture, products, etc.
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Post by AussieMeg on Jul 16, 2015 3:47:20 GMT
Hey, how dare you..... Loud, drunk and obnoxious is the AUSTRALIAN stereotypical tourist thankyouverymuch!!! (Except we want a meat pie and chips, not bloody ham!! ) I saw this rather ironic poster in Sydney a number of years ago!
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