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Post by Cupcake on Jul 23, 2015 13:58:30 GMT
A little backstory: my sister and I each have 2 kids. Her DS is 16, DD is 13; my DS is 15, DD is 12. I am Godmother to my nephew, and my sister is DD's godmother. My sister and I get along, but we are very different people, in many ways. I am what I would call a typically involved parent: driving kids back and forth to activities, checking homework, talking out issues, etc. My sister is, um, much more hands-off. Nephew hasn't always made the best decisions, but then again, he hasn't gotten a lot of guidance, either. We are from the Boston area and have been all our lives, as have our spouses and all of our parents. My sister, brother and I are soon heading to a weekend with some cousins and all our families. (A mini family reunion that is long overdue, yay!) My nephew just got his license a few days ago. He has been working on fixing up a car they got for him, and it looks fabulous... but it has several confederate flag emblems on it, along with other confederate flag decor (license plate, etc.). When I first saw it a couple of weeks ago (before it was on the road), I was pretty disgusted. My exact words were "Dude, you're going to get your windows shot out." I am sure he has no idea of the symbolism, nor does he care. I gently told him that there are a lot of crazies out there, and why would he want to make himself a target? He replied with a shrug and a "whatever". As did my sister when I mentioned it to her.  Of course, even though he has had his license less than a week, he is driving to this gathering 2 1/2 hours from home. I'm pretty certain the vehicle decor will not go over well with the rest of the family, but not my problem. I forewarned our brother, his reply was a big "UGH". He is pretty appalled. Even my DS, who told me that "he has not connected with his cousin for some time", is shaking his head. Not only am I concerned that my nephew and sister have no idea of the hurtful message he is displaying, neither are concerned for his safety (or interested in protecting the investment they just made). My sister claims she doesn't want to limit her son's speech. (Yeah, she has never been an activist about anything, ever.) All the while, I'm thinking "He's 16, how about acting like his mother and setting some limits?" But I made our position clear (DH is nephew's godfather and is equally frustrated) and will leave it at that. Thanks for listening, I feel better already and can't wait to see my cousins!  Lisa B. UPDATE 7/26: Well, that escalated quickly! Just got back from our cousins weekend, we had an awesome time, all 28 of us! Thought I'd address a few things to clear them up first: As I stated in my OP, I made our position clear and left it at that. Wasn't really looking for advice as I said I was done with the situation, but the viewpoints certainly made for great reading! Not sure how saying "shooting someone's windows out" escalated into me being a racist, but that could not be farther from the truth. As another poster stated (forgive me as I'm running on little sleep and little caffeine!) there are many people in MA who are passionate about current issues, and who will go to great lengths to defend the rights of others (Boston Tea Party, anyone?). The thought that a black person would be the one shooting out said windows honestly never even crossed my mind. Not sure who said the nephew knew more than I think he did, being all over the Internet and all... my nephew isn't the most connected kid. Hates school with the fire of a thousand suns. Isn't a net surfer or gamer. His interests lie in cars, dirt bikes, and other similar pursuits. So, believe it or not, he is pretty much in the dark as far as current issues are concerned. (My sister isn't big on current issues or events, either. Never reads a book or newspaper, except for the occasional article that may come across her FB newsfeed). As for LucyG, I love your posts, but you need to check your spreadsheet, lol... although I am in fact Jewish (and a lousy one at that!), I have no idea where anyone would get the idea that I am a conservative. I am not loyal to any political party, and politics bore me to tears. I decide on issues individually, and as far as equal rights for all are concerned, I'm in.  Now, as for our reunion weekend itself: we arrived at a beautiful family campground on Thursday afternoon and got settled. Nephew showed up later in his bright red jeep, decorated with the previously mentioned decor as well as a new addition: a huge confederate-style flag waving from the back of the car. I didn't say a peep. Not my problem. But it did become his problem pretty quickly, as his father (my brother in law) got an earful within minutes from my Uncle, who is the most mild-mannered laid back guy. (I heard other buzzing from the family, but stayed out of it... one cousin did approach me, saying her just-turned-14 DS came to her saying "nephew is weird, and what's with all the flag stuff on his car?") The flag was removed very soon thereafter, and the car backed into an inconspicuous spot. The next day there was a huge American flag waving from the back of the car. There were 3 other teenage boys at this gathering (my DS 15, cousin's son 14, other cousin's son, 18) and nephew was definitely the odd man out. Like one of the posters said, sometimes the message is clearer when it's from your peers. Although I'm not expecting his behavior to change, I'm hoping he will at least think a bit before acting in the future. He actually kept to himself a lot, he did interact but not much. Never said a word to me all weekend, although I talked to my sister, brother in law, and niece. Also over the weekend, nephew locked his keys in the car while it was running. My sister didn't have the 2nd key (it was 3 hours away at home), so they called AAA. Nephew put many dents in his car trying to get the door open, and my sister had to stop him from breaking the window. Having no issue with putting his temper on display was not good (throwing things, slamming tools to the ground, etc.). I'm worried for him. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. Hopefully his parents see it, too. The rest of us had so much fun we're already planning for next year. My sister has not replied to any of the messages going back and forth yet. We shall see! |
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peppermintpatty
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Post by peppermintpatty on Jul 23, 2015 14:04:09 GMT
I understand and totally agree. My sister is kind of the same way about having blinders on when it comes to her kids. Unfortunately he is going to have to possibly learn the hard way that his choices have consequences.
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Post by Meri-Lyn on Jul 23, 2015 14:14:16 GMT
I'll tell you, if it were my nephew (who DH is the godfather of), we would be having a coming to Jesus talk! But other than talk, there isn't much else you can do. You can tell them your disappointed and why, point out the meaning and the consequences. But not being the parent, you can't really do much else. I guess, since the parents technically own the car, it's ultimately their decision.
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freebird
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Post by freebird on Jul 23, 2015 14:23:05 GMT
why do you have to be an activist to not want to stomp on someone else's free speech?
I'm not a big fan of the confederate flag, but I am a big fan of the freedom of speech. If he wants to do it, he has a right to do it IMO. you also have a right to tell him your opinion (as others do too) but if he keeps the flags, it's his business. I think at 16 he can understand the ramifications of doing so, and shouldn't be bullied into doing something he doesn't want to just because someone deemed it un-PC
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Post by maryland on Jul 23, 2015 14:42:20 GMT
I wouldn't let a newly licensed drive drive the 2.5 hours by himself! But that's just me. My daughter just got her learners and my husband would have no problem letting her drive that distance when she gets her license, but not me. Totally off topic, just got stuck on that. I know I am in the minority about the driving!!
It sounds like your nephew and niece aren't getting a lot of guidance, so I don't think there is much you can do. I understand your point though!
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Post by Prenticekid on Jul 23, 2015 15:09:14 GMT
...I was pretty disgusted. My exact words were "Dude, you're going to get your windows shot out." Lisa B. You must not realize how blatantly racist that statement is. I mean, who do you think will be shooting out your nephew's windows? The inference that could be made from your post is even more disgusting than a Confederate flag decal. I might be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt; however, I highly doubt that your nephew thought that you meant that gun toting Caucasians would be gunning down his vehicle because of the Confederate flag. This could very well be one of those times where you need to check yourself and your family before judging others, let alone trying to educate them on the subject. |
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Post by not2peased on Jul 23, 2015 15:13:22 GMT
...I was pretty disgusted. My exact words were "Dude, you're going to get your windows shot out." Lisa B. You must not realize how blatantly racist that statement is. I mean, who do you think will be shooting out your nephew's windows? The inference that could be made from your post is even more disgusting than a Confederate flag decal. I might be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt; however, I highly doubt that your nephew thought that you meant that gun toting Caucasians would be gunning down his vehicle because of the Confederate flag. This could very well be one of those times where you need to check yourself and your family before judging others, let alone trying to educate them on the subject. newsflash: black people aren't the only ones horrified by use of the confederate flag-there are PLENTY of people in left-leaning Massachusetts that would potentially express their displeasure to the nephew |
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Post by Prenticekid on Jul 23, 2015 15:19:23 GMT
You must not realize how blatantly racist that statement is. I mean, who do you think will be shooting out your nephew's windows? The inference that could be made from your post is even more disgusting than a Confederate flag decal. I might be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt; however, I highly doubt that your nephew thought that you meant that gun toting Caucasians would be gunning down his vehicle because of the Confederate flag. This could very well be one of those times where you need to check yourself and your family before judging others, let alone trying to educate them on the subject. newsflash: black people aren't the only ones horrified by use of the confederate flag-there are PLENTY of people in left-leaning Massachusetts that would potentially express their displeasure to the nephew Not quite the newsflash you apparently think it is. Now, if the general public starts assuming that gun toting white liberals are running around shooting out car windows, you let me know. And, I did say that I give her the benefit of the doubt. |
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freebird
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Post by freebird on Jul 23, 2015 15:25:33 GMT
newsflash: black people aren't the only ones horrified by use of the confederate flag-there are PLENTY of people in left-leaning Massachusetts that would potentially express their displeasure to the nephew Not quite the newsflash you apparently think it is. Now, if the general public starts assuming that gun toting white liberals are running around shooting out car windows, you let me know. And, I did say that I give her the benefit of the doubt.
Whoa... There are gun toting white liberals? wtf! haha.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 23, 2015 15:33:47 GMT
why do you have to be an activist to not want to stomp on someone else's free speech? I'm not a big fan of the confederate flag, but I am a big fan of the freedom of speech. If he wants to do it, he has a right to do it IMO. you also have a right to tell him your opinion (as others do too) but if he keeps the flags, it's his business. I think at 16 he can understand the ramifications of doing so, and shouldn't be bullied into doing something he doesn't want to just because someone deemed it un-PC I was going to write a whole big response, but it's just easier to say "Ditto what she said" ETA: and isn't 'gun toting white liberal' an oxymoron, kinda like jumbo shrimp? lol!) |
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 23, 2015 17:10:14 GMT
...I was pretty disgusted. My exact words were "Dude, you're going to get your windows shot out." Lisa B. You must not realize how blatantly racist that statement is. I mean, who do you think will be shooting out your nephew's windows? The inference that could be made from your post is even more disgusting than a Confederate flag decal. I might be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt; however, I highly doubt that your nephew thought that you meant that gun toting Caucasians would be gunning down his vehicle because of the Confederate flag. This could very well be one of those times where you need to check yourself and your family before judging others, let alone trying to educate them on the subject. how the hell is that racists? It happens. We just had a car around here vandalized probably because of the confederate flag. Since we don't have a large black population, the chance it was a non black is pretty high. And since when is a comment like that racist anyway. She didn't say some black guy or girl is going to do it. She didn't say the people who might do it were bad or criminals (although they would be if they destroyed property, but not hardened criminals) or whatever. She made the comment that the windows might get broken. Racism isn't about always walking on tip toes while walking in egg shells. A confederate flag is barely going to get a look in my area, but if someone parked it on the street in a more diversified area, it would cause people to comment and perhaps get upset. Parking a car covered in the confederate flag in a largely minority area, especially black, is just begging people to become inflamed. I saw a biker once stop and write a very nasty note and leave it on the windshield if another bike. The parked bikes offence? An Obama sticker. This was a daytime event with lots of peoplease around. Who know what might have been done by this guy had it been a dark alley. Maybe he would have knocked over the bike. |
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Post by christine58 on Jul 23, 2015 17:16:37 GMT
Not your circus not your monkeys
He'll learn soon enough what others think.
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georgiapea
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Post by georgiapea on Jul 23, 2015 17:20:08 GMT
I'm not Black and I would be horrified to see confederate flag emblems on a family member's car and would let them know what I thought. Why choose to be stupid? Warning him that he is asking for trouble does not make you a racist. It makes you a respectful person who does not wish to offend others. As for him not knowing how offensive many white people find the confederate flag, I'm quite certain he is well aware and just prefers to be disrespectful.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 23, 2015 17:25:36 GMT
ahhh, did you not read the bit about free speech and it's his issue to deal with, no one else's?? (well, perhaps it could be considered his parent's issue if they're the ones who own it and pay the insurance. But apparently they don't see an issue with it.)
If I was that teenager, an aunt (or any other person who can't 'really' tell a teenager what to do like their parents can) saying "I really don't think you should do that" and giving a lecture? It's pretty much going to go in one ear and out the other.
ETA: I just have to add, when did we as a society become so absorbed in worrying about 'not offending anyone else' with any and all behavior, or the things we say or write?? Can I say I find the never-ending 'quest to not offend anyone over anything' offensive in and of itself, or is that offending someone?
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Post by epeanymous on Jul 23, 2015 17:26:40 GMT
How does someone in Boston of all places get the idea to put confederate flags on his car? He isn't celebrating his Southern heritage, I assume (not that I am saying confederate battle flags celebrate southern heritage, but I assume he can't even make that nominal argument). He isn't doing it because that is just what teenaged boys do in his area. That seems to me like the kind of thing where you have to make an affirmative decision to plaster your couldn't-be-more-yankee-if-it-came-over-on-the-Mayflower-and-now-runs-a-Quaker-meeting-house vehicle with symbols of an army your ancestors, if they were here, fought against.
In other words, that's just weird.
I would tell him what you think of the flags and the kinds of things you associate with them. Other than that, even as a godparent, this really isn't your rodeo. I'm guessing he actually knows full well what he is doing, and, in the time-honored tradition of sixteen-year-old boys, is trying to provoke responses out of people.
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LeaP
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Post by LeaP on Jul 23, 2015 17:44:35 GMT
How does someone in Boston of all places get the idea to put confederate flags on his car? He isn't celebrating his Southern heritage, I assume Boston is south of the border...with Canada Maybe Kid Rock is his role model. You voiced your concern, but beyond that there isn't a much else for you to do. I agree with epeanymous, it is very, very odd for a New Englander to do that. Is it possible that he is involved with a hate group? |
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scrapaddie
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Post by scrapaddie on Jul 23, 2015 18:51:56 GMT
His issue .... Not yours....
And they may be as judge mental about your parenting as you are about theirs... They may refer to you as a helicopter parent....I am not saying you are... I have no idea Just something to think about
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Post by mom on Jul 23, 2015 18:58:28 GMT
why do you have to be an activist to not want to stomp on someone else's free speech? I'm not a big fan of the confederate flag, but I am a big fan of the freedom of speech. If he wants to do it, he has a right to do it IMO. you also have a right to tell him your opinion (as others do too) but if he keeps the flags, it's his business. I think at 16 he can understand the ramifications of doing so, and shouldn't be bullied into doing something he doesn't want to just because someone deemed it un-PC This. A million times, this. If nephew knows there might be consequences for his actions, and he still wants to keep the flag, then so be it. He has been made aware of the potential problem and now its up to him to decide what he wants to do. But bullying him into changing something just because someone might get offended? Yeah, not cool. |
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Post by mom on Jul 23, 2015 19:02:07 GMT
How does someone in Boston of all places get the idea to put confederate flags on his car? He isn't celebrating his Southern heritage, I assume Boston is south of the border...with Canada Maybe Kid Rock is his role model. You voiced your concern, but beyond that there isn't a much else for you to do. I agree with epeanymous, it is very, very odd for a New Englander to do that. Is it possible that he is involved with a hate group? See, and I don't think its that odd at all. Go on instagram, Facebook. The confederate flag is everywhere. Heck, even on the dukes of hazard. Being geographically distant from an idea/thought doesn't mean he hasn't already been exposed to it. My 16 year old son likes the confederate flag - and gasp. He isn't a part of a hate group. He just thinks its cool. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 19:06:46 GMT
A lot of people in the north rally around this flag because of the whole freedom of speech thing. They don't see it as a hate symbol or racist symbol. To me, it's just a piece of fabric. It is no longer relevant in today's society, but memorabilia to the past. I agreed with it being taken down from the state house in South Carolina, but I don't agree with all the backlash. If you want to fly it, wear it, whatever with it...that's your business. If I see it on someone's house or car, I don't automatically assume that they are racist. I wouldn't, but that's just me. Prior to the church murders, I might have. Now, I would not.
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freebird
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Post by freebird on Jul 23, 2015 19:33:59 GMT
How does someone in Boston of all places get the idea to put confederate flags on his car? He isn't celebrating his Southern heritage, I assume Boston is south of the border...with Canada Maybe Kid Rock is his role model. You voiced your concern, but beyond that there isn't a much else for you to do. I agree with epeanymous, it is very, very odd for a New Englander to do that. Is it possible that he is involved with a hate group?
gee, that's a big jump from he's just a kid expressing himself to "maybe he's in a hate group?"
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Post by gossamer on Jul 23, 2015 19:50:15 GMT
Telling a teenager what not to do... pretty sure he will do it anyway.
Surely Liberals wouldn't judge him for having a sticker on his car...
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Jul 23, 2015 19:54:53 GMT
Telling a teenager what not to do... pretty sure he will do it anyway. Surely Liberals wouldn't judge him for having a sticker on his car...lol - good one. That literally made me laugh out loud. I think you win the internet today! |
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lindas
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Post by lindas on Jul 23, 2015 20:00:51 GMT
It's not your place to be concerned about what your nephew or sister do. If it offends you that much then maybe you should skip the family gathering since the car will be there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 20:11:05 GMT
See, it's because if this point... How does someone in Boston of all places get the idea to put confederate flags on his car? He isn't celebrating his Southern heritage, I assume (not that I am saying confederate battle flags celebrate southern heritage, but I assume he can't even make that nominal argument). He isn't doing it because that is just what teenaged boys do in his area. That seems to me like the kind of thing where you have to make an affirmative decision to plaster your couldn't-be-more-yankee-if-it-came-over-on-the-Mayflower-and-now-runs-a-Quaker-meeting-house vehicle with symbols of an army your ancestors, if they were here, fought against. That this statement hard to believe... I am sure he has no idea of the symbolism, nor does he care. I'm not saying you're lying, just that he is more aware than you're giving him credit for. The Confederate Flag Debate has been going on for a couple of months now, especially online where most teens spend their time. It would be hard for anyone even remotely savvy with the internet or media in general to be ignorant of the flag and its implications. It's not a particularly attractive flag, but i suppose that he could say he enjoys the design. He could even say he's just a huge Dukes of Hazard fan, but in the end the likelihood of him choosing to plaster his car with this particular symbol is telling. Giving him the benefit of the doubt though, his being so young and getting so little direction from his mom, doing this could very well be a cry for attention. And he doesn't care where he gets it from. Either way he gets to decorate to his aesthetic and what you say to him at 16 probably won't change his mind. |
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Jul 23, 2015 20:15:51 GMT
I can only shake my head for ya.
I would be worried that with all the anti-confederate flag things happening recently (taken down from government buildings, etc), he really is asking for trouble by having his car plastered with them.
And I can't believe his mother wouldn't see the possibly ways it could make him a target, even if he can't at his young age.
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Post by myboysnme on Jul 23, 2015 20:21:52 GMT
Not your circus not your monkeys He'll learn soon enough what others think. Respectfully I disagree. I would educate/challenge/confront anyone I was associated with who would do that, especially my sister who is allowing this for her minor child. Sometimes silence is acquiescence. |
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Post by christine58 on Jul 23, 2015 20:28:17 GMT
Not your circus not your monkeys He'll learn soon enough what others think. Respectfully I disagree. I would educate/challenge/confront anyone I was associated with who would do that, especially my sister who is allowing this for her minor child. Sometimes silence is acquiescence. Funny how you picked my response to quote when others have said the same. She's his aunt for crying outloud..not his mother. The OP told her sister and BIL as did her husband how this bothered them. Let others chime in with their views on it...she's NOT his parent and that kid will find out pretty fast what people think. Let it go. As much as I hate that symbol and what it represents----he's not my child nor yours. |
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Post by myboysnme on Jul 23, 2015 20:30:30 GMT
Respectfully I disagree. I would educate/challenge/confront anyone I was associated with who would do that, especially my sister who is allowing this for her minor child. Sometimes silence is acquiescence. Funny how you picked my response to quote when others have said the same. She's his aunt for crying outloud..not his mother. The OP told her sister and BIL as did her husband how this bothered them. Let others chime in with their views on it...she's NOT his parent and that kid will find out pretty fast what people think. Let it go. As much as I hate that symbol and what it represents----he's not my child nor yours. Yours just impressed me as being succinct and well stated in making your point. |
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Post by traceys on Jul 23, 2015 20:30:49 GMT
You expressed your opinion, which I think you have a right to do as his aunt/godmother, but I dont think there's really anywhere to go from there. From the way you've described him, I would guess that giving it more attention might just feed his 16 year old rebellious nature.
If it becomes a problem with his peer group, that will probably be more effective than adult disapproval.
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Of course, even though he has had his license less than a week, he is driving to this gathering 2 1/2 hours from home. I'm pretty certain the vehicle decor will not go over well with the rest of the family, but not my problem. I forewarned our brother, his reply was a big "UGH". He is pretty appalled. Even my DS, who told me that "he has not connected with his cousin for some time", is shaking his head. 
