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Post by Heidi on Jul 23, 2015 20:30:53 GMT
For your own sanity, you have to just let it go. What can you do other than what you've done?
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Post by gmcwife1 on Jul 23, 2015 20:42:38 GMT
You expressed your opinion, which I think you have a right to do as his aunt/godmother, but I dont think there's really anywhere to go from there. From the way you've described him, I would guess that giving it more attention might just feed his 16 year old rebellious nature. If it becomes a problem with his peer group, that will probably be more effective than adult disapproval. Which is exactly how many/most teens see that flag, it's a sign of rebellion and has been a teenage sign of rebellion for years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 21:36:21 GMT
A lot of people in the north rally around this flag because of the whole freedom of speech thing. They don't see it as a hate symbol or racist symbol. To me, it's just a piece of fabric. It is no longer relevant in today's society, but memorabilia to the past. I agreed with it being taken down from the state house in South Carolina, but I don't agree with all the backlash. If you want to fly it, wear it, whatever with it...that's your business. If I see it on someone's house or car, I don't automatically assume that they are racist. I wouldn't, but that's just me. Prior to the church murders, I might have. Now, I would not. Ugh, this argument... You may not see it as a hate/racist symbol, but many, many people do. It's not about taking away anyone's freedom of speech or expression, its about not celebrating a time of great injustice for lots of people. Of course it's just a piece of fabric, it in and of itself isn't going to jump off a pole and kill someone. Obviously its the representation of this symbol that people take issue with. Also saying it's no longer relevant or that it's just memorabilia to the past directly contradicts the whole "southern pride" response. It's been said many times that it wasn't even taken up as a symbol of the south until the 60s when civil rights were an issue. BTW there are many other ways to show southern pride. I'm from Texas and proud of it. Never have I once needed that flag to show it. Why do people feel the need to hold on to a symbol that represents oppression and hate? The fact, and yes, I said fact is it is a loaded symbol, maybe not for you personally. Pictures speak. That's why we know an Apple product without ever seeing the company name. I have a hard time feeling sympathy for the victim mentality that those who tote the flag take on. You aren't being misunderstood, you (knowingly) took up a flag that hurts a lot of people and then wonder why people who only have a passing interaction would judge you by it. Why put on a firefighter's uniform if you aren't a firefighter?
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happymomma
Pearl Clutcher
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Aug 6, 2014 23:57:56 GMT
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Post by happymomma on Jul 23, 2015 21:37:25 GMT
How does someone in Boston of all places get the idea to put confederate flags on his car? He isn't celebrating his Southern heritage, I assume Boston is south of the border...with Canada Maybe Kid Rock is his role model. You voiced your concern, but beyond that there isn't a much else for you to do. I agree with epeanymous, it is very, very odd for a New Englander to do that. Is it possible that he is involved with a hate group? Oh Geez. Is it possible he watched Dukes of Hazzard? That is just as likely as it is that he's in a hate group. But based on your previous comment about Kid Rock, I can see that your mind goes to hate group first. For or the record, Kid Rock removed that flag from his act years ago. But so many people love to get riled up about stuff they don't bother to check that kind of stuff out before waving their arms about it. www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/07/16/kid-rock-confederate-flag-southern-rock/30269627/The aunt should let it go and continue doing the perfect job she's doing raising her own kids.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 23, 2015 21:37:36 GMT
"You may not see it as a hate/racist symbol, but many, many people do. It's not about taking away anyone's freedom of speech or expression..."
--so why does one groups' feelings or viewpoint trump the other one's?? I thought that was one of the great things about free speech in this country... as long as it isn't to the point of being a hate crime, then aren't both groups' rights equal??
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 21:48:36 GMT
"You may not see it as a hate/racist symbol, but many, many people do. It's not about taking away anyone's freedom of speech or expression..." --so why does one groups' feelings or viewpoint trump the other one's?? I thought that was one of the great things about free speech in this country... as long as it isn't to the point of being a hate crime, then aren't both groups' rights equal??Of course they are, that's kinda one of the major points of the civil war and the subsequent laws. Equal rights. And again it's not about free speech. I'm not of the opinion that no one anywhere should sport it (though I don't believe it belongs on gov't land), do what you want. BUT, don't be shocked (or feign hurt at being misunderstood) when people think you have racist ideals. ETA: Also, it's interesting to bring up equal rights when part of the negative connotation of that flag is to keep a certain group counting as only 3/4 of a person.
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Post by krazykatlady on Jul 23, 2015 22:11:13 GMT
I think you've said what you want him to hear. Continuing to state your opinion is only going to fall on deaf teenage ears. If it offends you enough skip the family get together. Maybe your actions will speak louder than your words.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 23:03:10 GMT
That's part of the problem. Too many people put too much symbolism in inanimate objects. If everyone just considered it as symbolic as, well, as a picture of Jesus typing on a computer, there'd be a lot less negativity. Those who insist on saying the flag is about hatred fuels the fire, just as much as those who those who insist it's about southern heritage. Until people on both sides of the issue realize it's just a piece of fabric and belongs in the past, this will never die.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 23:07:08 GMT
why do you have to be an activist to not want to stomp on someone else's free speech? I'm not a big fan of the confederate flag, but I am a big fan of the freedom of speech. If he wants to do it, he has a right to do it IMO. you also have a right to tell him your opinion (as others do too) but if he keeps the flags, it's his business. I think at 16 he can understand the ramifications of doing so, and shouldn't be bullied into doing something he doesn't want to just because someone deemed it un-PC I agree. He's not your kid. He's not your responsibility. You and your sister are different people and different parents. (we get what kind of parent you think she is based on what you wrote about her...I think it would be interesting to hear her opinion on your parenting) You've let your opinion be known. It's time to drop it. It's not your battle. It's not your responsibility.
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Post by not2peased on Jul 23, 2015 23:13:04 GMT
ahhh, did you not read the bit about free speech and it's his issue to deal with, no one else's?? (well, perhaps it could be considered his parent's issue if they're the ones who own it and pay the insurance. But apparently they don't see an issue with it.) If I was that teenager, an aunt (or any other person who can't 'really' tell a teenager what to do like their parents can) saying "I really don't think you should do that" and giving a lecture? It's pretty much going to go in one ear and out the other. ETA: I just have to add, when did we as a society become so absorbed in worrying about 'not offending anyone else' with any and all behavior, or the things we say or write?? Can I say I find the never-ending 'quest to not offend anyone over anything' offensive in and of itself, or is that offending someone? it's what people who weren't raised by wolves do-they try not to offend people. doesn't mean they alter their behavior to the point of absurdity, for fear of offending over every little minor thing, that *might* offend a minute segment of the population but having the confederate flag on your car isn't exactly an obscure thing that offends a small segment of the population it's an asshole alert, MEANT to annoy and offend. I am not terribly concerned with a 16 year old's free speech-he's still a minor and a child of mine wouldn't be allowed to behave like an asshat-"free speech" or not free speech means just that-free to say or display whatever you want. it also means people are free to tell you what they think about that speech and in this case, the aunt thinks it's really an ugly sentiment and told him so.
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Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
Jun 26, 2014 5:57:41 GMT
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Post by Rainbow on Jul 23, 2015 23:19:06 GMT
I live in NC and see the flag a lot on trucks, etc and nobody shoots out the windows. They don't do anything. Just leave it alone, it's his car not yours.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 23:31:25 GMT
That's part of the problem. Too many people put too much symbolism in inanimate objects. If everyone just considered it as symbolic as, well, as a picture of Jesus typing on a computer, there'd be a lot less negativity. Those who insist on saying the flag is about hatred fuels the fire, just as much as those who those who insist it's about southern heritage. Until people on both sides of the issue realize it's just a piece of fabric and belongs in the past, this will never die. Not being abstruse, but I don't know what this means. The rest of your post makes no sense to me. Symbols are what we do as a society for many reasons, speed of judgement and packing many messages into a picture included. When you see a swoosh you think certain things that the brand managers have packed into the picture. Sports, just do it, running, athletes, etc. If someone came along and tried to say that the swoosh also stood for their brand Nike would have lawyers with something to say. The same thing is happening with this flag, people are using it to make a judgement like it or not. It may be your opinion that we overuse symbols, but its a long used (hieroglyphics) method of communication. ETA: It's not the fabric people have issue with, it's what it represents. Saying that really does belittle the feelings of both sides. My pants are fabric but not offensive. We're in agreement that it belongs in the past.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jul 23, 2015 23:34:48 GMT
That's part of the problem. Too many people put too much symbolism in inanimate objects. If everyone just considered it as symbolic as, well, as a picture of Jesus typing on a computer, there'd be a lot less negativity. Those who insist on saying the flag is about hatred fuels the fire, just as much as those who those who insist it's about southern heritage. Until people on both sides of the issue realize it's just a piece of fabric and belongs in the past, this will never die. Of course, because people are using it as a symbol, not as just another piece of fabric.
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Post by lurkingsince2001 on Jul 24, 2015 0:21:17 GMT
This reminds me of a case that I read about years ago. A teenage boy had a confederate flag sticker on his truck bumper. His high school took exception to this, claiming that it might make someone uncomfortable or lead to trouble, and suspended him until such time as he would remove it from his vehicle. They wouldn't even let him drive a different vehicle to school or hitch a ride. They were willing to suspend him indefinitely and possible screw with his college career and academic record over a bumper sticker they admitted no one had complained about. The real kicker for me: the high school was only a mile or so down the road from a civil war battlefield that has been a National Park for decades.
So yes, the nephew may get grief for his decor, but it may not be the kind you'd expect.
OP, you've expressed your concern and done what you can. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I never put decorative things on my car, whether it's a political sticker, my alma mater, or favorite team. There are crazies in this world. On the other hand, if they are that crazy (you know, crazy enough to commit a crime just because they don't like your bumper sticker or whatever,) I suspect they didn't really need an excuse to act out anyway.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 24, 2015 3:01:59 GMT
To you people complaining about judgmental liberals ... if memory serves me correctly (and I apologize to the OP if I'm remembering wrong), the OP is a conservative and she's also Jewish. As a group, we tend to be very sensitive to symbols of racial hatred. I would also be ashamed of my nephew if he somehow got the idea that the Confederate flag would be cool to display on his car. We are close and I wouldn't think twice about saying something to him about it. Not that his mother wouldn't already have ripped him a new one. OP, I think you've done what you can and now you need to let it go. "You may not see it as a hate/racist symbol, but many, many people do. It's not about taking away anyone's freedom of speech or expression..." --so why does one groups' feelings or viewpoint trump the other one's?? I thought that was one of the great things about free speech in this country... as long as it isn't to the point of being a hate crime, then aren't both groups' rights equal??Free speech refers to the legal right to say what you think and not be arrested for it. It doesn't offer any kind of protection against societal disapproval for your speech. You have the right to wave your Confederate flag without going to jail for it, and I have the right to be offended by your Confederate flag which to me represents celebrating the worst of our national history. That's part of the problem. Too many people put too much symbolism in inanimate objects. If everyone just considered it as symbolic as, well, as a picture of Jesus typing on a computer, there'd be a lot less negativity. Those who insist on saying the flag is about hatred fuels the fire, just as much as those who those who insist it's about southern heritage. Until people on both sides of the issue realize it's just a piece of fabric and belongs in the past, this will never die. WTF? Jesus typing on a computer?? You can keep saying till you're blue in the face that it's just a piece of fabric. That doesn't change the feelings of people on both sides of this debate about all that it represents.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 24, 2015 4:56:59 GMT
I had a whole big response typed out, but it's just pointless-- whatever.
People are going to think what they want, and the kid has the right to do with his car what he wants, as long as his parents don't mind.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Jul 24, 2015 5:41:06 GMT
I had a whole big response typed out, but it's just pointless-- whatever. People are going to think what they want, and the kid has the right to do with his car what he wants, as long as his parents don't mind. Sadly it seems many of our threads are ending up pointless lately
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 6:04:08 GMT
I had a whole big response typed out, but it's just pointless-- whatever. People are going to think what they want, and the kid has the right to do with his car what he wants, as long as his parents don't mind. Sadly it seems many of our threads are ending up pointless lately I disagree that this was pointless. It was a conversation which is why we come here. What exactly was to be accomplished on this thread? OP posed a scenario and we responded with our best advice. We all came in with our opinions and life experiences and none of them were shocking as we have all stated our points of view on different threads with the same topic. We discuss things on this board, but none of our threads are going to end up changing the world (or maybe they will, Idk). I'm assuming the idea that this is pointless stems from a feeling of being misunderstood, correct me if I'm wrong. I hear what the other side of the argument is saying but I don't accept or identify with it. I'm sure the same can be said for how you feel. To expect to come into a controversial topic and receive no differing opinion doesn't make sense.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 24, 2015 6:46:23 GMT
I had a whole big response typed out, but it's just pointless-- whatever. People are going to think what they want, and the kid has the right to do with his car what he wants, as long as his parents don't mind. Sadly it seems many of our threads are ending up pointless lately Really? I thought my response was the correct answer, reasonably polite, and to-the-point. Was I wrong? Or am I not supposed to respond if I disagree and feel I have something worthwhile to say in response? I get the feeling that if I disagree, I'm just supposed to shut up and slink away.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 10:11:42 GMT
I'm sorry. The part about the picture of Jesus typing on a computer refers to a meme I've seen on Facebook. Something to do with "LIKE AND SHARE ME IF YOU LOVE ME. SCROLL ON BY IF YOU DONT" Every single time I see that meme or one like it, I get upset. I know I shouldn't, but I do. I have to remember that it's just a picture and doesn't mean anything.
And that is my point. Someone sees that flag, and it either upsets them or excites them. Why? If everyone would quit putting so much meaning on this flag, then we'd be so much further along. I don't think anyone worships the Nike sign, so it's not the same. I've heard or read so many people saying the flag isn't about slavery, but about the south trying to secede from the north.
And I also get the feeling that I should just shut up and slink away too. Apparently I'm not allowed to voice my thoughts and opinions.
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Post by katieanna on Jul 24, 2015 11:23:20 GMT
....when did we as a society become so absorbed in worrying about 'not offending anyone else' with any and all behavior, or the things we say or write?? Can I say I find the never-ending 'quest to not offend anyone over anything' offensive in and of itself, or is that offending someone?
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Post by gailoh on Jul 24, 2015 11:35:35 GMT
It would be the safety issue with me, he is still a child and needs adult supervision still...
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Jul 24, 2015 11:46:33 GMT
I'm surprised that so many people are saying that aunts have no role and she should STFU about it. You bet your bippy that when my nieces and nephews do something stupid like this kid, they are going to hear about it. But maybe I am more engaged with my nieces and nephews than the typical aunt.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Jul 24, 2015 14:57:44 GMT
Sadly it seems many of our threads are ending up pointless lately Really? I thought my response was the correct answer, reasonably polite, and to-the-point. Was I wrong? Or am I not supposed to respond if I disagree and feel I have something worthwhile to say in response? I get the feeling that if I disagree, I'm just supposed to shut up and slink away. Not you specifically!! I'm sorry if it seemed that way, I just meant in general We keep getting stuck in this loop of many/most people picking a side, digging in and neither side at least seeing the other side even if they don't agree. It's been a long time since someone has mentioned they can see how someone would think that way. I think I only really remember that happening on one of the transgender threads. Hmm, maybe that just sparked a false hope that we (as a group) can disagree but still understand there are usually two sides or reasons we don't see the same thing
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 24, 2015 15:44:59 GMT
"I get the feeling that if I disagree, I'm just supposed to shut up and slink away. " ^^^funny, that's just how I felt earlier on this thread when I posted my response and got all the 'oh my gosh, racism, etc. etc.' responses.
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Post by Cupcake on Jul 26, 2015 22:39:59 GMT
BTT for update.
Lisa B.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 22:49:18 GMT
After reading your update, I can't help but wonder why on earth you'd put out on the internet, forever, something so negative about your nephew and other members of your family.
I will tell you that you cannot control others, but you are in complete control of your own actions, words, behavior and attitude.
I must tell you, that the way you're behaving and the way that you're gossiping and putting all of this "out there" doesn't reflect well on you.
I do wonder if somewhere out there on the internet, your sister, your nephew are out there trashing you and telling the world about all of their flaws and mistakes.
Don't go looking for drama. From what I can tell, none of anything you've posted involves you. Just leave it alone.
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Post by Cupcake on Jul 26, 2015 23:40:42 GMT
After reading your update, I can't help but wonder why on earth you'd put out on the internet, forever, something so negative about your nephew and other members of your family.
I will tell you that you cannot control others, but you are in complete control of your own actions, words, behavior and attitude.
I must tell you, that the way you're behaving and the way that you're gossiping and putting all of this "out there" doesn't reflect well on you.
I do wonder if somewhere out there on the internet, your sister, your nephew are out there trashing you and telling the world about all of their flaws and mistakes.
Don't go looking for drama. From what I can tell, none of anything you've posted involves you. Just leave it alone.
Wasn't looking for drama, just venting. I come here for the same reason many former Peas do: it's a safe place to vent when you can't always in real life. For the love of Pete, if we eliminated all of the posts wherein Refupeas complained about mothers-in-law, spouses, kids, siblings, and other family drama, the NSBR would probably die a quick death, lol. And I certainly hope my family and friends have a similar place where they, too, can vent about whatever it is that bothers them, even if that includes me, my parenting, my inability to return the grocery cart to the corral, my insatiable love of kitten heels, my Uncrustables addiction, or whatever. Differences make the world go round, but keeping the peace IRL is often necessary, so online vent away!
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Post by its me mg on Jul 27, 2015 3:55:24 GMT
...I was pretty disgusted. My exact words were "Dude, you're going to get your windows shot out." Lisa B. You must not realize how blatantly racist that statement is. I mean, who do you think will be shooting out your nephew's windows? The inference that could be made from your post is even more disgusting than a Confederate flag decal. I might be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt; however, I highly doubt that your nephew thought that you meant that gun toting Caucasians would be gunning down his vehicle because of the Confederate flag. This could very well be one of those times where you need to check yourself and your family before judging others, let alone trying to educate them on the subject. Where do you live!? I live in Los Angeles, and I don't doubt for one second someone would shoot somebody else over the sticker on their car (Confederate flag or whatever else). You're absolutely right, Lisa B - anyone who doesn't appreciate it could retaliate!
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Post by betty on Jul 27, 2015 4:39:29 GMT
After reading the UPDATE and being the mom of teens I would guess that this boy felt very picked on and like everyone was talking about him or even forcing him to do something he didn't want to do.
It is likely that he didn't even want to be at a family reunion (my teens would never have prefered a family reunion over hanging w/friends!) and his "temper on display" that you saw is a result of that & the fact that his personal expression (Confederate battle flag) is a topic of discussion and possibly "odd man out" feelings.
He's young. Be his friend or let him be but don't pick on him or make him feel isolated.
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