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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Jul 24, 2015 12:23:13 GMT
I think everyone judges everyone else.
It's just not PC to admit that we judge people.
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Post by moveablefeast on Jul 24, 2015 12:24:02 GMT
I guess the thing that sometimes bothers me about this particular train of thought is that some people act like judging is just something that we do, it's just human nature, everybody makes assessments, with the unspoken assumption that we can't or shouldn't change that, and our assessments are valid simply because they're our assessments.
Because I could make an assessment of the woman in dressy clothes and nice makeup, and I could make an assessment of the fat woman in yoga pants and a shapeless t-shirt at the grocery store - but is my assessment actually right? If my assessment is only that one looks nicer than the other, well, that is what it is. But I also know with other parts of my brain that there is an entire scope of both women to which my immediate view and therefore my momentary assessment is not privy. So I think for me, when I say I don't judge this or that, it means that I am inclined to put my momentary assessment aside on whatever the presenting matter is, because I have a limitation of view.
Obviously there are times where you have to make decisions and act with regard to people and situations without all the facts - you do the best you can. Being nonjudgmental is not the same as being naive or lacking street smarts.
I think one of the loveliest qualities in a person is a genuinely kind and generous attitude towards other people. I am not really there - my inner monologue is so unreasonably bitchy at times - but what I want very much to cultivate in my own life and heart is that kind and generous attitude. To be the kind of person I want to be often requires submitting my momentary assessment of people to my better faculties, intentionally considering that there might be more to a person than meets the eye.
If you think that's a "cop out to try to come across as superior", honestly the last word I would use to describe myself is "superior". I am an ordinary and average person, and I can't think of anything about me that isn't surpassed by another. I think anyone who knows me well knows that superior is not a goal of mine. This is not about being more enlightened, it is about personal qualities and mental habits I wish to cultivate in my own life.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Jul 24, 2015 12:24:28 GMT
It would be foolish, if not outright dangerous, not to process whatever information you have - even if it's only appearances & accent. Of course, you won't have a whole picture, but you've got to work with what you've got.
ETA I'm thinking of The Gift of Fear, if you've ever read that. It talks about how we subconsciously or consciously process information about the people we encounter. ITA!
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Jul 24, 2015 12:24:56 GMT
. if we are forming an opinion on someone based on appearances or a brief encounter, I think we hurt ourselves, because we don't give that person a chance. To form an opinion after careful consideraton is what I strive to do. I guess a better word for the thoughts we have when seeing someone might be reaction rather than judgement. If I see a person in a store with (for arguments sake) pink hair, face tattoos, steel toecap boots and a t-shirt with the *f* word on it I will notice them and have a reaction to their look. Some people will call that judging but I don't. Now if I decided based on their appearance that they were probably going to shoplift from the store that'd be judging. Yes That is what I was saying!
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scrapaddie
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,090
Jul 8, 2014 20:17:31 GMT
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Post by scrapaddie on Jul 24, 2015 12:30:32 GMT
I have to admit that I judge even though I might ask others not to. The difference is, that I try not to pass on those judgments to other people. And I tried to tell myself that there are things that I may not understand. But yes, when I go to Walmart, and I'm hearing a mother tell her little children f%}{ this and. F#€€ that, I can't help but being judge mental.
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janeliz
Drama Llama
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Jun 26, 2014 14:35:07 GMT
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Post by janeliz on Jul 24, 2015 12:32:35 GMT
I'm judging you right now for being judgmental.
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Post by salem on Jul 24, 2015 12:33:16 GMT
We all judge. Anyone who says they don't is full of crap. It's when you lose the ability to keep a nasty comment from slipping out of your lips that you become a bitch about it.
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Post by originalvanillabean on Jul 24, 2015 13:43:30 GMT
freecharlie me too. kate Thanks for the book recommendation - I really enjoy reading about the human mind and the things that influence us.
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MizIndependent
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Quit your bullpoop.
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Post by MizIndependent on Jul 24, 2015 13:50:04 GMT
Making general judgments, i.e. assessments,is normal.
It's when someone stands in judgment over me, as if they are above me or somehow better than me...it's that type of judging that is wrong, IMHO.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 24, 2015 14:15:24 GMT
Honestly? I always say that I am fairly nonjudgmental, which is true. But what I really mean is that I do make assessments based on the information that I have, but don't typically assign negative attributes to those assessments. But I do agree with pjaye in that I think that there is a big disconnect with people who misunderstand the difference between having opinions and being judgmental. Opinions are general, judgment is specific and personal. There IS a difference, and I don't just see it here. Turn on the tv: personal attacks are couched as opinions, disagreements are polarized into 'us' and 'them' and it is rare to see two people who are actually debating an issue without devolving into a couple of toddlers screaming at each other. Look no further than Donald Trump who is insulting people right and left and then calling it opinion-no, it is judgment-and people are agreeing with him because this is what we have become used to.
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freebird
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Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Jul 24, 2015 14:39:38 GMT
I'd like to introduce you to Terry (not his real name). He's one of my son's best friends.
Terry will be 26 in a couple months, but I've known him since he was about 13. One day, this boy shows up at my house on a bike, dragging his little sister behind him. And then the next day, and the next day and so on. I was judging... who is this kid? Where are his parents? Why is his sister ALWAYS with him? How did I end up being their baby sitters? Why are they eating my food and wearing worn out clothes, etc etc.
It didn't take long for me to get a come-to-jesus meeting with myself.
I found out his mom lived 45 miles away, and the "man" raising him was mentally about 12 himself. At my old gym, that guy would come in and buy tons of expensive supplements, but then couldn't afford to get his kids any clothes or decent food. I realized that Terry was actually raising his little sister, there was no one else to do it and I saw him in a whole new light.
Terry has always been a little on the fringe, some might have referred to him as "white trash" but since he was my son's best friend, I had to remind myself that other people might be referring to my son in the same way. They all ran in a little group where they were all a little rough around the edges, but once you KNEW THEM and knew their hearts you knew they were great men.
Terry's sophomore year he got caught with pot in his locker. He was expelled from school, put on probation and had a rough go for a while... he openly admits it was his own fault. He was in and out of different houses for a while, dropped out of his alternative school and found some work. The other kids went on to graduate without him. But Terry, the whole time, was kind and loving kid. He was a hard worker, loved his sister, helped out his dad when he could, was a good friend to my son and always called me "Mom".
A couple years after graduation, he worked very VERY hard for his GED and invited me to his graduation. I even took graduation photos for him. I was as proud of him as I was for my own boys, why? because he basically went to high school while holding down a full time job. In ways, it's harder to get a GED. For the record, he was one of the top in his class.
A couple years ago, his girlfriend and he were having a really rough patch. I sat him down and told him that if he decided to take her back, to not have children, to not get engaged for several years because she'd done enough stuff that she needed to prove she was trustworthy to him again. You know what? He's one of the very few people that have actually followed my advice. He's still not married, not even engaged, and he admitted he's waiting it out to make sure she is back on track with her life before they commit to a life together with children.
Mother's Day, my kids came out to see me and we had lunch, etc. As they were getting ready to go, a car pulls up in my driveway, it was Terry, bringing me flowers for Mother's Day. He still calls me mom. I tell him I love him.
He went to firefighter school with my son (9 month program). He has a really good job now, has been there for 5 years. (non-fireman). He's a hard worker and everything he has he got on his own. I'm very proud of him.
If I would have continued to judge him, where would I be right now, and where would he be right now? I guess my point is, it's easy to judge, but when I see someone like Terry that seems on the fringe I think about him and literally say "that kid could be Terry". What you see and judge is on the surface, it takes work to see what the inside of that person is instead of just on the surface. I try to remind myself when I'm being judgey that I'm only seeing one bit of one person's life for a few seconds, I can't judge them based just on that one little bit... Like I did Terry when he was a 13 year old showing up at my door, eating my food, dragging a little 7 year old girl around.
Pic attached is Terry and I on mother's day with the flowers he brought me.
tl;dr
don't judge based on the surface, try to remember there's more to a person than what they look like or their actions in a millisecond of their lifetime.
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Post by mrsscrapdiva on Jul 24, 2015 14:50:25 GMT
We call that "people watching" in my family. Big difference is I mostly keep my opinions to myself (judge in my head but filter what comes out of my mouth). For me it is more like an observation and then I like to picture in my head where people are going, what type of house they live in, what they do or work etc. My Mom & Dad = no filter. My parents are very critical people. They have always been that way and they have been divorced for 30 years but both are judgmental and critical to a lot of things. Often it is embarrassing to be out in public when them because you never know what might come out of their mouth. They would come to my childs sports games and I think they spent more time watching and commenting the other family dynamics than watching my son on the field. Okay gotta stop thinking of that...it's giving me anxiety.
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Deleted
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May 14, 2024 13:47:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 15:03:34 GMT
I'm a judging judger who judges. I get annoyed with the judgers who think their opinion is the only correct way to see things.
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Post by smalltowngirlie on Jul 24, 2015 15:37:36 GMT
I judge and if I am really honest, it usually means I am looking down on that person. I judge mostly people I know who are sharing with me, so many times my thoughts go to, "Weel if it was me..." I am working on that. I stop myself and will tell myself, "I don't know the whole story, I don't really know what they are going through." I am however pretty good about keeping my thoughts in my head. I have seen this floating around lately, and it really hit home to me. I can think a lot of things, but how I act and what I say is what really affects others.
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tiffanytwisted
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 15:57:39 GMT
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Post by tiffanytwisted on Jul 24, 2015 15:50:55 GMT
Make room on the bench, honey.
I judge all the time. I don't trust anyone who says they don't.
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Deleted
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May 14, 2024 13:47:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 16:02:11 GMT
Yeah, we all judge. It is the human condition. But we can give everyone a chance to change our minds about our first impression.
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Post by quinlove on Jul 24, 2015 16:07:31 GMT
I think as I've gotten older, I've become less judgmental about things that don't really matter. But lack of honesty and not acting with integrity are deal breakers for me. This. I try very hard to think and act positively. I think that judging others would fit more in the negative thought process, which I try to avoid. Try being the key word here.
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Post by wallyagain on Jul 24, 2015 16:12:45 GMT
We all judge in the moment based on appearances. If we get interaction, the initial thoughts may change.
Years ago, I was on a flight and as I'm disabled, this airport loaded me last. I was seated beside this rough looking man, pretty grubby looking, reeked of cigarette smoke and alcohol. My initial thought was Ugh. As we are taxiing down the runway, he gently says, "This part always freaks me out". He was terrified. Totally changed how I saw this person. We had a lovely conversation on the short flight. If I hadn't had the opportunity to interact with him, my judgement may not have changed.
We all do it, it's how we act based upon the initial judgement that makes the difference.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 24, 2015 16:25:30 GMT
I guess the thing that sometimes bothers me about this particular train of thought is that some people act like judging is just something that we do, it's just human nature, everybody makes assessments, with the unspoken assumption that we can't or shouldn't change that, and our assessments are valid simply because they're our assessments. Because I could make an assessment of the woman in dressy clothes and nice makeup, and I could make an assessment of the fat woman in yoga pants and a shapeless t-shirt at the grocery store - but is my assessment actually right? If my assessment is only that one looks nicer than the other, well, that is what it is. But I also know with other parts of my brain that there is an entire scope of both women to which my immediate view and therefore my momentary assessment is not privy. So I think for me, when I say I don't judge this or that, it means that I am inclined to put my momentary assessment aside on whatever the presenting matter is, because I have a limitation of view. Obviously there are times where you have to make decisions and act with regard to people and situations without all the facts - you do the best you can. Being nonjudgmental is not the same as being naive or lacking street smarts. I think one of the loveliest qualities in a person is a genuinely kind and generous attitude towards other people. I am not really there - my inner monologue is so unreasonably bitchy at times - but what I want very much to cultivate in my own life and heart is that kind and generous attitude. To be the kind of person I want to be often requires submitting my momentary assessment of people to my better faculties, intentionally considering that there might be more to a person than meets the eye. If you think that's a "cop out to try to come across as superior", honestly the last word I would use to describe myself is "superior". I am an ordinary and average person, and I can't think of anything about me that isn't surpassed by another. I think anyone who knows me well knows that superior is not a goal of mine. This is not about being more enlightened, it is about personal qualities and mental habits I wish to cultivate in my own life. thank you for putting it so eloquently, moveablefeast! I could have never articulated this, but that is totally how I feel about it, too.
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PLurker
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Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Jul 24, 2015 16:28:59 GMT
I think we probably all "judge" as you say. First impressions and all. Probably where we get into trouble is not being able to deviate from the first impression when more information is available. We may find out how wrong, or right, your first impression may be. There is always "the rest of the story" for everyone. Don't let our initial first impression write someone else's rest of the story. Judgement is not fact.
Like stories of people listed above the facts later learned may change our judgement.
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Post by ilikepink on Jul 24, 2015 16:42:49 GMT
I do judge and assess. A lot. I'm very good at looking a candidate for a job and knowing whether they will work out long-term or not (and I have a decent track record for that).
What I don't do is make my judgment of that person a life sentence for them. I may see someone dressed inappropriately for the situation (pjs at a hotel breakfast, for example), but I know that there are circumstances I may not know about that led to what I saw. Someone cutting me off in traffic may be someone rushing to a sick family member, not always an bad/inconsiderate/asshole driver. I'm always open to having my opinion changed. I think the ability to grow and change how we see things/people is an important adult trait.
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Post by melanell on Jul 24, 2015 17:25:28 GMT
I'm a pretty tolerant person. Not much phases me. But there have been some instances where I wonder what the heck I just witnessed. As far as a person's character goes, it's more of a gut feeling than it is the sum of their appearance. I agree.
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Post by melanell on Jul 24, 2015 17:37:17 GMT
If you read the definition of judge it means to form an opinion AFTER careful consideration. I think how the word has come to be used in popular language. Is to form an opinion without careful consideration. if we are forming an opinion on someone based on appearances or a brief encounter, I think we hurt ourselves, because we don't give that person a chance. To form an opinion after careful consideration is what I strive to do. Great post!! You're absolutely correct about how we use that term "judge" to mean something quite different than its original definition. When I think of someone as being judgmental or judging I think of someone who makes negative assumptions about another person based on very little info. I also think of someone who bases their assumptions almost only on what they themselves have done or would do, and do not take into consideration that different people live their lives in all different ways. In other words, I almost always think of judging or being judgmental in negative ways, which I guess means I am unfairly judging those words, huh? So if someone overhears a mom saying that she's just going to get some junk for her dinner and they start huffing and puffing about how awful it is to be so unconcerned about feeding their children junk food, blah, blah, blah, to me that's negative judging. they don't know anything about this person but they're bitching about her based on one overheard statement. It could very well be that one day, years ago, one of her kids complained about left-overs not being food, they're "junk", and the family now jokingly calls left-overs "junk". So i guess what I try to do is always imagine several positive, or at least neutral (in my opinion) reasons why someone may be doing or saying something. But here, at peas, I often see people who immediately jump to negative reasons instead. And I do think that's awful...both for the person being unfairly judged and the person doing the judging. because I can't help but wonder if it's awful to go through life always expecting and assuming the very worst about people. And I base that thought on one aspect of life where I do expect the worse, and that's driving in traffic. I truly am a defensive driver and I do always assume that people will not do what they are supposed to do. And it's stressful. I wish I could be a little less worrisome about it. So I think to expect the worst all of the time would be so draining.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Jul 24, 2015 17:44:57 GMT
We all grow up bombarded with stereotypes and how people of a certain appearance 'is like'. Which in my own life has been proven wrong a million times. And also proven correctly a million times. I think the most important thing is to be open to the possibility of someone not living up to the stereotype. Don't treat people like the stereotype they look like, learn about their personality and your opinion will often change from that first impression. But yeah... we all do it based on what we have learned in our culture. Imagine growing up in an extreme culture. If you grow up in the KKK, you are most likely to judge people of colour growing up. If you grow up in a hippie commune, you are most likely going to judge people in suits as being materialistic. This describes a realization of me in a training I took this week. I'm very gender and sexual neutral when I assess (I like that) people. And it is probably the way I was raised, what I learned growing up. I know many people of either sex in the trades so I don't automatically think painter or carpet layer equals male. For me this also extends to race which might be why I don't see race in everything and wasn't understanding why some people do.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 24, 2015 17:57:54 GMT
the last couple posts describe me, too-- I'm fairly analytical overall; I'm in a scientific field and it's part of my job, and it's just part of my personal makeup after doing it for so many years. I always try to look at all angles of a situation, look for what I possibly don't know that could affect any given situation, and think about things from every angle, including the one that gives the person / situation the benefit of the doubt. This is because I try and figure things out from a concrete, verifiable perspective. Having this outlook possibly makes me seem too 'cold' or 'analytical' sometimes, but that's how I am.
Which is why I say I try not to judge (using judge in a negative light, as discussed) because I know there's usually some information I don't have.
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breetheflea
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Jul 20, 2014 21:57:23 GMT
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Post by breetheflea on Jul 24, 2015 18:16:51 GMT
I live a few blocks from some low income apartments and have to drive by them to get to my house. I admit when I see some of the people hanging around there I judge and am glad I live on a different street.
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Post by k8smom on Jul 24, 2015 18:26:33 GMT
I'm a pretty tolerant person. Not much phases me. But there have been some instances where I wonder what the heck I just witnessed. As far as a person's character goes, it's more of a gut feeling than it is the sum of their appearance. But yeah...I've been this person a few times this week. My boss does this to me daily at work. It's awkward. I wear dresses or skirts Mon - Thurs and Fri are casual days and no matter how confident I am in my outfit when I leave my house each morning, she destroys it every day when I walk in the door with this full body check as depicted above. It's sooooo rude! Plus, I have boobs. I can't help it, they are the ones God gave me. She has mentioned to me a few times that "No amount of cleavage is professional at work." Now, girls with larger boobs will back me up on this, but I would have to wear turtle necks to not have at least a glimpse of cleavage showing, it's just how it is. As far as judgement goes, I think everyone notices others and processes the things already mentioned here, but it's how we proceed with this info that defines us. Making others feel badly about themselves with the body check or any other social cues is just rude.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Jul 24, 2015 18:29:04 GMT
the last couple posts describe me, too-- I'm fairly analytical overall; I'm in a scientific field and it's part of my job, and it's just part of my personal makeup after doing it for so many years. I always try to look at all angles of a situation, look for what I possibly don't know that could affect any given situation, and think about things from every angle, including the one that gives the person / situation the benefit of the doubt. This is because I try and figure things out from a concrete, verifiable perspective. Having this outlook possibly makes me seem too 'cold' or 'analytical' sometimes, but that's how I am. Which is why I say I try not to judge (using judge in a negative light, as discussed) because I know there's usually some information I don't have. This might explain why we agree or see things similarly so often. I'm an auditor so we seem to have some of the same characteristics in how we view and analyze situations
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Post by rst on Jul 24, 2015 18:35:23 GMT
One of the biggest downsides to being a judgey judger who judges is that you will always assume that everyone else in the world is judging you (usually negatively). It's not a happy way to live.
As a mental exercise, when you're sitting there "people watching" or "assessing" or whatever you choose to call it, play the game of "extreme extending the benefit of the doubt". Your snap assessment may be right, but can you possibly imagine a situation or context in which that person is doing the rational, most productive, best thing given their options?
I find that thinking in this more creative way allows me to live more happily.
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Post by PEArfect on Jul 24, 2015 18:38:33 GMT
I would say that I'm opinionated, not judgemental.
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