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Post by bostonmama on Aug 12, 2015 12:24:46 GMT
I'm going to summarize as best as possible! 9 yr old son, homeschooled, went to a few day camps this Summer. One of the camps was co-ed, 3rd-5th grades, and there was an obvious "group leader" among the girls (she's about to be 12). Very tall, pretty, seemed to be rather "developed." On the 2nd day of camp I intercepted a note between her and my son about being bf/gf. It was in my son's handwriting, he denied over and over again he wrote it, says other boy did. Kids will be kids, whatever, addressed the lying at a later date (stopped asking, just went forward letting him know I knew better), talked about what having a gf means, that relationships are responsibilities, that girls, esp older girls, may have a different idea of what bf/gf means than you do, etc. Didn't shame him, we have a great relationship, just used it as a springboard for new conversations.
Older girl from camp gave him her phone number (this camp was in June). Apparently my son kept her number at his grandparents' house, which surprises me bc he loses everything! Anyway, he spent the last week there and asked if he could call this friend (apparently never said it was a girl). My MIL agreed but somehow it turned to texting (from my MIL's phone). I'm assuming this girl has her own phone. My MIL brought it to our attention, I casually mentioned it to my son & he said the friend he was texting was a guy from a completely different camp. I'm suspicious, ask my MIL to monitor closely.
You guessed it, the texting is with this girl. Last night he was asking her to be his girlfriend, asking her to send him a picture (which she did, wearing sunglasses & he replied saying he wanted to see his eyes), then he asked her to send him a picture of the beach when she goes today. OH, and he's also telling her he loves her!!
Ok, this got long, I apologize. I'm so very new to this parenting a tween thing & don't want to mess this up. We have always validated his feelings (in all things), as my parents missed that boat and it's important to us to not repeat that mistake. I reassured him this Summer that he's going to be interested in girls more and more now, and that's totally cool, but having a girlfriend means something. No matter how open and affirming we've been, he obviously feels he needs/wants to hide his feelings (the continued lying will be addressed separately).
Please, please hit me with any and all advice. I don't want to mess this up. I know so many of you have been there, done that!! He's coming home tomorrow. Thanks, ladies!!
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Post by epeanymous on Aug 12, 2015 12:40:46 GMT
I think part of what is going on here is that your definition of boyfriend/girlfriend is just different from the definition that most kids that age are operating with. My daughter just exited the tween years, so this is all fresh for us, and when kids her age have called one another boyfriend/girlfriend, they haven't considered that to be a serious thing that came with responsibilities. "Dating" at that age for most kids I know involves texting a little and going to middle school dances "together" by telling their friends they are going together and then standing at opposite ends of the room anyway. Also, occasionally offering flowers. I am sure there is more for some kids, but that is largely what I have seen.
I think another thing that is going on here is that kids that age are starting to develop identities separate from their parents and, in particular, don't want to discuss their romantic lives, such as they are. I have other parents asking me all the time who their kids are "dating" because they think it is far more likely that their kids will tell my kid who will tell me than that their kid will tell them directly (they are right).
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Post by littlemama on Aug 12, 2015 12:57:10 GMT
The big red flag for me is that a 12 year old girl wants anything boyfriend/girlfriend to do with a 9 year old boy.
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Post by anonrefugee on Aug 12, 2015 13:03:13 GMT
epeanymous your comments align with our experience. In the tween years "dating" is the new "going with" - what we said as kids. I'd also be careful as I discerned the difference between lying, and an urge for privacy. Tweens are going through a new experience. They throw the word "love" around so you can talk about that. Your DS probably knows his is more of a "like". When DS(s) were Tweens we discouraged them asking girls to send photos. We told them we didn't want them to ask and then be seen as responsible if a girl sent a nude pic. At the time the thought sleeved them out, but they got the message and hopefully are still acting on it. We're in "real" dating years and the kids personality's dictate how much we know. My oldest is private and quiet- just as he's been growing up. My youngest isn't quite to "real" dates but is very open, same as other subjects.
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Post by bostonmama on Aug 12, 2015 13:05:46 GMT
The big red flag for me is that a 12 year old girl wants anything boyfriend/girlfriend to do with a 9 year old boy. There's no guarantee my son didn't add a year to his age  I'm not putting anything past him right now!! Regardless, the communication is being shut down. I don't think the age gap will bring anything positive to either parties! Going forward, I need advice on how to approach/handle this with my son. He is far more open & comfortable talking to me than his father. |
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Post by anxiousmom on Aug 12, 2015 13:10:25 GMT
I wish I had an answer for you-beyond just keep talking. Talk, talk, talk. Don't leave any topic off the table. The more you talk now, the easier the harder conversations are.
I just had a conversation yesterday with my son. He is 17 and has been dating the same girl for almost two years. She is pretty shy, and is having an issue that requires her to be more assertive to get what she needs. My son is slightly frustrated because he doesn't completely understand her hesitation and said 'but she talks about and I give her suggestions on how to fix it and she gets mad at me..." OMG. Apparently, the age old man trying to fix the problem instead of just listening starts early. We talked about him listening instead fixing and I thought to myself that if he can get this sorted it will save him a lot of trouble in the long run.
Anyway, I tell you this because it is an ongoing process from the day it starts. Keep the lines of communication open. Talk. Listen. Realize that this is the age that kids start really wanting to be independent from their parents, and that is okay. Set the lines that can't be crossed, but allow flexibility with in the rules.
Good luck!
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Post by lonr on Aug 12, 2015 13:14:35 GMT
My oldest is 10.
We just have ground rules. No girlfriends until they graduate! (Only kind of kidding)
I just suggest keep the family rules firm and the lines of communication open. You don't want to stifle or he will go behind your back. But he has! So I feel so bad! I don't really know how I would handle it. Try to fully understand his side, but don't back off on your standards.
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Post by littlemama on Aug 12, 2015 13:30:13 GMT
The big red flag for me is that a 12 year old girl wants anything boyfriend/girlfriend to do with a 9 year old boy. There's no guarantee my son didn't add a year to his age I'm not putting anything past him right now!! Regardless, the communication is being shut down. I don't think the age gap will bring anything positive to either parties! Going forward, I need advice on how to approach/handle this with my son. He is far more open & comfortable talking to me than his father. a 10 year old is in the same class as a 9 year old as far as most 12 year old girls are concerned. At 12, a girl has started puberty. A 9 or 10 year old boy is still a child in their minds.
All you can do is talk to him about relationships and the disadvantages of starting them too soon. In middle school, they still tend to run in mixed gender packs around here. A few kids "date", but that usually lasts a month or two.
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Post by nurseypants on Aug 12, 2015 13:30:35 GMT
It seems to me that your son just has a crush. The girl probably just thinks it's cute. I see nothing sinister in her interactions as you have described them. I don't really understand shutting down all communication.
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likescarrots
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Post by likescarrots on Aug 12, 2015 13:43:53 GMT
It seems to me that your son just has a crush. The girl probably just thinks it's cute. I see nothing sinister in her interactions as you have described them. I don't really understand shutting down all communication. This. Leave them alone. they are developing relationship skills and this is totally normal for children this age. If we want to know why studies are showing that kids don't know how to communicate effectively anymore, this is part of the answer. Kids can't do or say anything anymore without mom or dad standing behind them making sure it's on their terms. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 12, 2015 13:55:34 GMT
There's no guarantee my son didn't add a year to his age I'm not putting anything past him right now!! Regardless, the communication is being shut down. I don't think the age gap will bring anything positive to either parties! Going forward, I need advice on how to approach/handle this with my son. He is far more open & comfortable talking to me than his father. a 10 year old is in the same class as a 9 year old as far as most 12 year old girls are concerned. At 12, a girl has started puberty. A 9 or 10 year old boy is still a child in their minds.
All you can do is talk to him about relationships and the disadvantages of starting them too soon. In middle school, they still tend to run in mixed gender packs around here. A few kids "date", but that usually lasts a month or two.
My son is very young for his grade, but very big for his age. We were at a pool party last summer, and a girl 3 years older than him told him she liked him  She was two grades ahead of him in the same school, so there's no doubt she knew his age. I think those tween years are all over the place in development - both physical and emotional. I wondered at the time if she "liked" him because he was safe - a way to play with flirtation with pretty much no risk. To the OP - we're a few years in - and we've really emphasized what is appropriate at their age. Before 12, we had a no text policy (with the exception of preapproved family members and a very small group of friends). I also agree with a previous poster than in middle school boyfriend/girlfriend means you text and go to school dances together - if you're really serious you might sit near each other at lunch. My kids have went through various crushes, and we've always emphasized behavior - their feelings are their feelings. |
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peabay
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Post by peabay on Aug 12, 2015 13:56:23 GMT
9 is so young though. I would just say to him: "we don't have boyfriends and girl friends until we're teenagers. If you want to be her friend, that's great. Everyone can always use more friends. But there's no boyfriend/girlfriend stuff."
And I always end my conversations about this kind of stuff with this: "You have so many years to be grown up and so few to be a kid. Be a kid when you're a kid and save the more grown up stuff for when you're older."
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paigepea
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Post by paigepea on Aug 12, 2015 14:02:12 GMT
This doesn't seem like a big deal and I think the more you make it into a big deal (sorry, feels like you're making it into a big deal) the more he'll want to lie and keep it from you. I'm stressed about my dd entering the tween years, you sound petrified. You have to let him spread his wings a little bit. he won't understand everything at this point.
Have ground rules - review your lying rule and have a must show me everything you text rule (I'm someone who wouldn't allow texting at all but it's easier to monitor then phone calls). My dd is 9 and in grade 5. There are 12 year olds already in grade 6, so not that far off from her grade - it's just how the birthdays work.
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Post by gar on Aug 12, 2015 14:03:00 GMT
I do agree that the title 'girlfriend/boyfriend' versus crush is making it seem more than it is and that is causing you more concern that it warrants. You can't stop someone having a crush obviously so keep things light, don't make too big a deal of it and listen/chat as much as you can. It's pretty normal stuff when all is said and done:smile:
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Post by flanz on Aug 12, 2015 14:08:16 GMT
I wish I had an answer for you-beyond just keep talking. Talk, talk, talk. Don't leave any topic off the table. The more you talk now, the easier the harder conversations are. I just had a conversation yesterday with my son. He is 17 and has been dating the same girl for almost two years. She is pretty shy, and is having an issue that requires her to be more assertive to get what she needs. My son is slightly frustrated because he doesn't completely understand her hesitation and said 'but she talks about and I give her suggestions on how to fix it and she gets mad at me..." OMG. Apparently, the age old man trying to fix the problem instead of just listening starts early. We talked about him listening instead fixing and I thought to myself that if he can get this sorted it will save him a lot of trouble in the long run. Anyway, I tell you this because it is an ongoing process from the day it starts. Keep the lines of communication open. Talk. Listen. Realize that this is the age that kids start really wanting to be independent from their parents, and that is okay. Set the lines that can't be crossed, but allow flexibility with in the rules. Good luck! This is excellent advice!!@!@ |
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johnnysmom
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Post by johnnysmom on Aug 12, 2015 14:12:21 GMT
Awwww.....it's a school boy crush, it's kinda cute  But I get it, my ODS just turned 14 so we're further down the road. As epeanymous said their definitions of dating are different than what you're thinking. DS has been "dating" since like 2nd grade, for whatever crazy reason his group of friends always seemed to pair up. Basically it meant you had a crush and maybe talked a bit at school. At this point I would concentrate on setting healthy limits, you don't want this to become an obsession (doubtful at his age, but we recently dealt with). Talk about using the "love" word, maybe phrase as he doesn't want to come on too strong and scare her off  I wouldn't take away all communication because that's going to make him sneakier next time, IMO. Limit it to maybe weekends only, or whatever makes sense for your family. Chances are it will naturally fizzle out pretty quickly since they don't see each other regularly. The age difference? Meh, again, we're talking "dating" not "DATING", monitor the texts, talk about the risks of sexting (it's never too early IMO), let it run it's natural course, it won't last long. Save all the worries for down the road. My DS recently told me he has a girl who's a Junior interested in him (ds is entering 8th grade), he asked me if he was allowed to talk to her, I said sure you can talk to her, but her idea of dating and what you're allowed to do are totally different so don't expect much more than talking  |
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Post by myshelly on Aug 12, 2015 14:25:45 GMT
The big red flag for me is that a 12 year old girl wants anything boyfriend/girlfriend to do with a 9 year old boy. I don't know what kind of camp OP's son went to, so this may not be the situation here, but I just want to say that it's different for homeschoolers. We are in a big homeschool group of kids who have always been homeschooled. They do not separate themselves out by age the way school kids do. They hang out with everyone. My 8 yr old plays with 5 yr olds and 14 yr olds. They have just never been in situations where they are grouped by age, so they don't group themselves that way. |
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Post by myshelly on Aug 12, 2015 14:30:45 GMT
It seems to me that your son just has a crush. The girl probably just thinks it's cute. I see nothing sinister in her interactions as you have described them. I don't really understand shutting down all communication. I completely agree with this. OP, first, you are trying to make *your* definition of bf/gf his definition of bf/gf. It's not. In order to effectively communicate with your son (which should be the highest priority in this situation), you need to see things from his perspective. Second, what would concern me most is him hiding this from you and doing it at MIL's house, you don't want to go into the teen years with him feeling he has to hide things bc you flip out and make them a bigger deal than they are. I am not saying you should compromise your values or your rules. I am saying that you should evaluate your mindset and look at things from his perspective. Why can't he talk to a girl? You said he doesn't have a phone. Does he have a way to regularly communicate with his friends? How did you "intercept" the note in the first place? Does he feel that was a violation? Have you considered his feelings about that? |
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Post by SabrinaM on Aug 12, 2015 14:52:43 GMT
It seems to me that your son just has a crush. The girl probably just thinks it's cute. I see nothing sinister in her interactions as you have described them. I don't really understand shutting down all communication. I agree with this as well. My oldest DD is almost 14 so I've seen this before. Leave them alone. If it lasts a week I'll be surprised. |
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Post by bostonmama on Aug 12, 2015 15:02:11 GMT
It seems to me that your son just has a crush. The girl probably just thinks it's cute. I see nothing sinister in her interactions as you have described them. I don't really understand shutting down all communication. Yes, I think it absolutely is just a crush for him! My concern is that his definition of what they are doing is different from her definition, at 12. I don't want it to take a turn. Plus, he was on my MIL's phone. He has never asked to call her or text, but does call other friends when he's home. |
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Post by bostonmama on Aug 12, 2015 15:03:51 GMT
It seems to me that your son just has a crush. The girl probably just thinks it's cute. I see nothing sinister in her interactions as you have described them. I don't really understand shutting down all communication. This. Leave them alone. they are developing relationship skills and this is totally normal for children this age. If we want to know why studies are showing that kids don't know how to communicate effectively anymore, this is part of the answer. Kids can't do or say anything anymore without mom or dad standing behind them making sure it's on their terms. I WANT him to develop relationship skills. I WANT him to learn to communicate effectively. I don't know that I believe that should happen without appropriate modeling, guidance, and respectful supervision. He's 9 -- my job is still very active at this point. |
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Post by bostonmama on Aug 12, 2015 15:06:12 GMT
a 10 year old is in the same class as a 9 year old as far as most 12 year old girls are concerned. At 12, a girl has started puberty. A 9 or 10 year old boy is still a child in their minds.
All you can do is talk to him about relationships and the disadvantages of starting them too soon. In middle school, they still tend to run in mixed gender packs around here. A few kids "date", but that usually lasts a month or two.
My son is very young for his grade, but very big for his age. We were at a pool party last summer, and a girl 3 years older than him told him she liked him She was two grades ahead of him in the same school, so there's no doubt she knew his age. I think those tween years are all over the place in development - both physical and emotional. I wondered at the time if she "liked" him because he was safe - a way to play with flirtation with pretty much no risk. To the OP - we're a few years in - and we've really emphasized what is appropriate at their age. Before 12, we had a no text policy (with the exception of preapproved family members and a very small group of friends). I also agree with a previous poster than in middle school boyfriend/girlfriend means you text and go to school dances together - if you're really serious you might sit near each other at lunch. My kids have went through various crushes, and we've always emphasized behavior - their feelings are their feelings. (Sorry, I don't know how to quote multiple posts!) We hadn't made any texting/calling policies yet bc I didn't think we were there yet! We told my MIL that he can text on our phones when he's home and will tell him the same. |
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Post by nurseypants on Aug 12, 2015 15:06:12 GMT
two questions: is your concern that he was hiding these interactions from you? And what kind of turn do you mean?
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Post by bostonmama on Aug 12, 2015 15:08:27 GMT
9 is so young though. I would just say to him: "we don't have boyfriends and girl friends until we're teenagers. If you want to be her friend, that's great. Everyone can always use more friends. But there's no boyfriend/girlfriend stuff." This is exactly what we've always said, word for word. It was reiterated back in June. He's letting us know now (apparently) that he wants to use the title. It seems the general consensus is to let him?? We've never been the kind to joke about crushes/loves/dating. My friends will ask their kindergartners who they like, who they want to marry, etc, but we never did that. I'm kind of surprised he's using the term! |
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paigepea
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Post by paigepea on Aug 12, 2015 15:11:49 GMT
This. Leave them alone. they are developing relationship skills and this is totally normal for children this age. If we want to know why studies are showing that kids don't know how to communicate effectively anymore, this is part of the answer. Kids can't do or say anything anymore without mom or dad standing behind them making sure it's on their terms. I WANT him to develop relationship skills. I WANT him to learn to communicate effectively. I don't know that I believe that should happen without appropriate modeling, guidance, and respectful supervision. He's 9 -- my job is still very active at this point. But your obviously doing it in a way that isn't how he wants as he seems to not be letting you in. This type of stuff he can learn as he goes or he can ask you for guidance when he's older. It's not like he's writing a resume or going on a job interview. He's 9. The point is that kids learn a lot of this stuff by talking to others and experiencing it. |
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Post by bostonmama on Aug 12, 2015 15:12:31 GMT
It seems to me that your son just has a crush. The girl probably just thinks it's cute. I see nothing sinister in her interactions as you have described them. I don't really understand shutting down all communication. I completely agree with this. OP, first, you are trying to make *your* definition of bf/gf his definition of bf/gf. It's not. In order to effectively communicate with your son (which should be the highest priority in this situation), you need to see things from his perspective. Second, what would concern me most is him hiding this from you and doing it at MIL's house, you don't want to go into the teen years with him feeling he has to hide things bc you flip out and make them a bigger deal than they are. I am not saying you should compromise your values or your rules. I am saying that you should evaluate your mindset and look at things from his perspective. Why can't he talk to a girl? You said he doesn't have a phone. Does he have a way to regularly communicate with his friends? How did you "intercept" the note in the first place? Does he feel that was a violation? Have you considered his feelings about that? Yes, how to effectively communicate with him is 100% my concern. I want to handle this appropriately with him and also his feelings moving forward. He can absolutely talk to a girl. I want him to! I was just surprised his first interaction with a girl turned into this SO quickly. (Obviously, not first interaction with a girl, but wanting to call/text one!!) The note was left in the car. I saw her slip him her phone number as we were leaving the 2nd day of camp & I asked him what it was. He nonchalantly told me what it was, and I said, "Cool!" He didn't SEEM interested or embarrassed or anything at the time. |
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Post by bostonmama on Aug 12, 2015 15:17:47 GMT
two questions: is your concern that he was hiding these interactions from you? And what kind of turn do you mean? He SHOULD have privacy, but apparently he feels he needs to hide them/lie about them. THAT is a red flag to me. We talk about everything, so when he hides/lies about talking to this girl it makes me wonder why. Yes, he's coming to that age where he won't want to talk to me about everything. I know that (and don't like it  ). I want him to know (and have told him numerous times) that his feelings are perfectly normal and that there are appropriate ways to have friendships/relationships with girls. She's turning 12. I was boy crazy at 12 and starting to push boundaries. I'm not putting that on her, not at all, but I think there's far more of a chance for the texts to become something I don't want my 9 year old involved in with a 12 year old vs a girl his own age. |
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Post by nurseypants on Aug 12, 2015 15:22:25 GMT
yes, I get it about the boy-craziness around that age. I will say that I think it's normal for him to hide a crush from you - it's kind of embarrassing, he's looking to navigate this on his own, etc. Seems very developmentally appropriate to me. Still, I think shutting down the communication might just make him feel more embarrassment and perhaps even shame.
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Post by bostonmama on Aug 12, 2015 15:22:33 GMT
I WANT him to develop relationship skills. I WANT him to learn to communicate effectively. I don't know that I believe that should happen without appropriate modeling, guidance, and respectful supervision. He's 9 -- my job is still very active at this point. But your obviously doing it in a way that isn't how he wants as he seems to not be letting you in. This type of stuff he can learn as he goes or he can ask you for guidance when he's older. It's not like he's writing a resume or going on a job interview. He's 9. The point is that kids learn a lot of this stuff by talking to others and experiencing it. I'll admit, the world scares me a little for kids these days. We didn't have texts when I was in elementary/middle school. We didn't send each other naked pictures. We didn't have phone sex. There was no FB, no social media. I think kids get in over their heads. I have zero desire to shelter him. I WANT him to experience the world. BUT NOT the oversexed, experience-life-before-you're-ready version. We've been hands-off up until now because there didn't seem to be a reason not to be. I'm just trying to get some been there, done that advice on HOW to effectively move forward into uncharted territory. |
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Post by bostonmama on Aug 12, 2015 15:24:25 GMT
yes, I get it about the boy-craziness around that age. I will say that I think it's normal for him to hide a crush from you - it's kind of embarrassing, he's looking to navigate this on his own, etc. Seems very developmentally appropriate to me. Still, I think shutting down the communication might just make him feel more embarrassment and perhaps even shame. We're shutting it down on my MIL's phone, which basically just means no texting tonight, as he'll be home tomorrow. I'll let him know he's welcome to text her on my phone, where I can sit on my iPad in the next room and see all the messages! Not going to feel guilty or intrusive for a second for monitoring them all. |
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I'm not putting anything past him right now!! Regardless, the communication is being shut down. I don't think the age gap will bring anything positive to either parties! 
She was two grades ahead of him in the same school, so there's no doubt she knew his age. I think those tween years are all over the place in development - both physical and emotional. I wondered at the time if she "liked" him because he was safe - a way to play with flirtation with pretty much no risk. 
But I get it, my ODS just turned 14 so we're further down the road. As 
I wouldn't take away all communication because that's going to make him sneakier next time, IMO. Limit it to maybe weekends only, or whatever makes sense for your family. Chances are it will naturally fizzle out pretty quickly since they don't see each other regularly. The age difference? Meh, again, we're talking "dating" not "DATING", monitor the texts, talk about the risks of sexting (it's never too early IMO), let it run it's natural course, it won't last long. Save all the worries for down the road. My DS recently told me he has a girl who's a Junior interested in him (ds is entering 8th grade), he asked me if he was allowed to talk to her, I said sure you can talk to her, but her idea of dating and what you're allowed to do are totally different so don't expect much more than talking 
). I want him to know (and have told him numerous times) that his feelings are perfectly normal and that there are appropriate ways to have friendships/relationships with girls.