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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 15:53:47 GMT
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A group of ladies from a book club took a ride on the Napa Valley Wine Train. During the trip at a stop the ladies were asked to leave the train because they were too loud and disturbing other folks on the train. According to the story the ladies were asked 3 times to tone it down. They didn't and were asked to leave the train. Once off the train they were bused back to the station. The ladies are saying they were asked to leave the train because they were loud and black. I guess meaning if the folks had been loud and white they would not have been asked to leave the train. The ladies are speaking out about their experience and I was watching an interview by one of the ladies and she started to get emotional saying she never expected to experience this kind of racism today. For someone who would want a bunch of overly loud folks tossed off the train, especially in an enclosed space like a train, I think she is making more out of this than what really happened. Don't get me wrong I think racism is alive and well in this country. But not this time. However I think the folks on the train mishandled the situation. I think that maybe they should have found a different place to sit for either the folks complaining or the ladies and then let the ladies laugh a way. Anyone else seen this story? What do you think? Were the ladies thrown off the train because they were loud or because they were loud and black?
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
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Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on Aug 25, 2015 15:57:01 GMT
Loud. Presumably no one complained about their colour.
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Post by myshelly on Aug 25, 2015 15:57:34 GMT
I think it's ridiculous they are making this about race.
They were too loud.
People book a wine train expecting it to be romantic, quiet, adult time. A group of 12 was clearly too loud for that environment.
Maybe the train could not have handled it differently. Maybe it was fully booked.
If other customers were complaining, the train had every right to do something about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 15:58:26 GMT
I think it's impossible to say without hearing how loud they were AND knowing what the norms are on that train. I can see it going either way, but there are too many variables to have an opinion without knowing more.
I do think the woman who told them to be quiet, "This isn't a bar," forgot that she is on a train with a sole purpose of taking people to a variety of stops to drink alcohol.
It's ludicrous that they called them police on them, though.
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Post by Goldynn on Aug 25, 2015 16:01:13 GMT
Seriously? I rode that train last summer. The cars are not very big and a noisy, loud group of people in my car would've ruined it for me and my friend. The group, themselves, admit to being "loud" and they were asked to tone it down 3 times. Unless I'm missing something, this doesn't seem to have anything at all to do with race, and everything to do with their disruptive public behavior.
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Post by sues on Aug 25, 2015 16:02:42 GMT
That story made me roll my eyes right out of my head. They were loud and obnoxious. It wasn't appropriate for that venue. They were asked repeatedly to quiet down. They didn't have a private car- they were bothering other people who had also paid good money for that trip. The company said they have to do that very thing re: rowdy customers about once a month- it was nothing unusual or race related.
I'd think they'd be embarrassed at their own behavior.
ETA- I've been on a similar train/trip- and the cars are comfortable, but not huge. I was with a group of girlfriends, and we had a blast, without being loud and screamy. Being excessively loud in that kind of environment would have been unbearable- there's just no way NOT to impact other passengers.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Aug 25, 2015 16:06:31 GMT
I am amazed at the number of people who can say with certainty that this was completely based on a noise level. When they weren't on the train. Not just here but also on FB.
I read an article where a number of people in the same car, said they were not being loud at all.
I can't make a judgment because I didn't hear them. I don't know if it was racially motivated either because I wasn't there.
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loco coco
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Jun 26, 2014 16:15:45 GMT
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Post by loco coco on Aug 25, 2015 16:08:11 GMT
This is not about race, they were asked 3 times to be quiet and didnt respect that.
When I had a girls night at my apt many years ago we had the cops called because we were laughing too loud. Its easy to have fun and get out of hand but you have to respect the people around you, sometimes you need a reminder. If that reminder is ignored then there should be repercussions especially at a place other people paid money to enjoy and you are disrupting that.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Aug 25, 2015 16:14:11 GMT
Why would it be about race. Have you ever been to s winery with that large of a group. It ruins it for everybody else. Color of your skin has nothing to do with it. They were told multiple times to keep it down and didn't listen. I am sure the result would have been the same if they were white except we wouldn't be reading about it or talking about it. People don't realize how loud they are when drunk and most people at wineries don't seem to think they are drunk or talking loud. I live in wine country and have witnessed this behavior so many times at local wineries. Most people get loud when drunk and if they are in a group they are even louder.
I am thankful that I can visit during the week or join a wine club and bypass the tourists and sit in s nice quiet members only area.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Aug 25, 2015 16:17:52 GMT
That story made me roll my eyes right out of my head. They were loud and obnoxious. It wasn't appropriate for that venue. They were asked repeatedly to quiet down. They didn't have a private car- they were bothering other people who had also paid good money for that trip. The company said they have to do that very thing re: rowdy customers about once a month- it was nothing unusual or race related. I'd think they'd be embarrassed at their own behavior. ETA- I've been on a similar train/trip- and the cars are comfortable, but not huge. I was with a group of girlfriends, and we had a blast, without being loud and screamy. Being excessively loud in that kind of environment would have been unbearable- there's just no way NOT to impact other passengers. What did you read? The article.. never states that they were obnoxious, or "screamy".... Where do you come up with that?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 16:26:12 GMT
Obnoxious behavior is obnoxious behavior, regardless of skin color.
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Post by peatlejuice on Aug 25, 2015 16:29:47 GMT
I suspect they were booted for being loud and are using racial tension to justify their bad behavior. I also wonder if the police weren't called because of the reactions of the women. If they are overreacting like this now, I imagine they weren't particularly polite in their interaction with train staff.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 16:32:15 GMT
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Post by myshelly on Aug 25, 2015 16:32:55 GMT
I think it's impossible to say without hearing how loud they were AND knowing what the norms are on that train. I can see it going either way, but there are too many variables to have an opinion without knowing more. I do think the woman who told them to be quiet, "This isn't a bar," forgot that she is on a train with a sole purpose of taking people to a variety of stops to drink alcohol. It's ludicrous that they called them police on them, though. I think there's a huge difference between a bar and a wine tasting.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 16:35:37 GMT
I think it's impossible to say without hearing how loud they were AND knowing what the norms are on that train. I can see it going either way, but there are too many variables to have an opinion without knowing more. I do think the woman who told them to be quiet, "This isn't a bar," forgot that she is on a train with a sole purpose of taking people to a variety of stops to drink alcohol. It's ludicrous that they called them police on them, though. I think there's a huge difference between a bar and a wine tasting. I disagree. We live on the outskirts of Oregon wine country and go to wineries plenty. People act more or less like they are at bars, they just arrive there in limos or party buses.
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Post by brina on Aug 25, 2015 16:36:31 GMT
according to the management of the train about once a month they have to ask people to leave the train when they cannot or will not quiet down. Unless those groups are also all black I think it is hard to say that this instance is due to race.
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Post by peatlejuice on Aug 25, 2015 16:38:16 GMT
I would be curious to know if the "non-black" guests were also in a group of 12 and if they were laughing at the same volume. I'm guessing the answer would be no.
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Post by myshelly on Aug 25, 2015 16:43:26 GMT
I think there's a huge difference between a bar and a wine tasting. I disagree. We live on the outskirts of Oregon wine country and go to wineries plenty. People act more or less like they are at bars, they just arrive there in limos or party buses. There are wineries here, too. Different clientele, different expectations. It's not ok to be loud and rowdy on a train or at a wine tasting or on a wine train. We have a wine train here. It's not for large, loud groups.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Aug 25, 2015 16:44:42 GMT
I think it's impossible to say without hearing how loud they were AND knowing what the norms are on that train. I can see it going either way, but there are too many variables to have an opinion without knowing more. I do think the woman who told them to be quiet, "This isn't a bar," forgot that she is on a train with a sole purpose of taking people to a variety of stops to drink alcohol. It's ludicrous that they called them police on them, though. I think there's a huge difference between a bar and a wine tasting. I haven't been on this train but have been to Napa and live in an area with over 40 wineries of varying sizes groups can get very very loud. Heck I have been on quiet days and seen how much noise an individual can make all while claiming I'm not drunk we've only been to three other wineries and they only give 1 oz tasting but each place gives 5-6 tastes and some bartenders tend to give a few extra to up their tips if they know the person isn't driving. This woman was by herself (well she was with s tour but the only one standing out) so it wasn't bad hubby and I just laughed it off but if she had been multiplied by even 10 we wouldn't have been happy and it was in a large room not a train car. Drunk people don't usually notice or care if they make noise especially if in a group. That seems to give them more credibility and justify being loud. I wasn't there but if multiple people complained they were probably pretty loud as people expect there to be done loud people on a tour like this.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Aug 25, 2015 16:44:57 GMT
I think it's impossible to say without hearing how loud they were AND knowing what the norms are on that train. I can see it going either way, but there are too many variables to have an opinion without knowing more. I do think the woman who told them to be quiet, "This isn't a bar," forgot that she is on a train with a sole purpose of taking people to a variety of stops to drink alcohol. It's ludicrous that they called them police on them, though. I think there's a huge difference between a bar and a wine tasting. I haven't been on this train but have been to Napa and live in an area with over 40 wineries of varying sizes groups can get very very loud. Heck I have been on quiet days and seen how much noise an individual can make all while claiming I'm not drunk we've only been to three other wineries and they only give 1 oz tasting but each place gives 5-6 tastes and some bartenders tend to give a few extra to up their tips if they know the person isn't driving. This woman was by herself (well she was with s tour but the only one standing out) so it wasn't bad hubby and I just laughed it off but if she had been multiplied by even 10 we wouldn't have been happy and it was in a large room not a train car. Drunk people don't usually notice or care if they make noise especially if in a group. That seems to give them more credibility and justify being loud. I wasn't there but if multiple people complained they were probably pretty loud as people expect there to be done loud people on a tour like this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 16:46:57 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 16:47:30 GMT
I disagree. We live on the outskirts of Oregon wine country and go to wineries plenty. People act more or less like they are at bars, they just arrive there in limos or party buses. There are wineries here, too. Different clientele, different expectations. It's not ok to be loud and rowdy on a train or at a wine tasting or on a wine train. We have a wine train here. It's not for large, loud groups. If *this* train isn't for large groups, they should not book a party of 12.
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Post by myshelly on Aug 25, 2015 16:48:05 GMT
There are wineries here, too. Different clientele, different expectations. It's not ok to be loud and rowdy on a train or at a wine tasting or on a wine train. We have a wine train here. It's not for large, loud groups. If *this* train isn't for large groups, they should not book a party of 12. Maybe they didn't Maybe each woman paid for her ticket individually so they didn't know it was a large group
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 16:49:39 GMT
If *this* train isn't for large groups, they should not book a party of 12. Maybe they didn't Maybe each woman paid for her ticket individually so they didn't know it was a large group The interview I linked above said they booked as a group.
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Post by myshelly on Aug 25, 2015 16:51:00 GMT
The women were too loud in all of those videos. That does nothing to make me believe them or support them.
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Post by ntsf on Aug 25, 2015 16:52:30 GMT
one of the problems is that they did book as a group (which the wine train promotes) and they did not seat them as a group..so some of the noise was to be expected...they were not seated together. I think the train people over reacted and it may not have been about race as much as a culture clash of expectations.
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Post by sues on Aug 25, 2015 19:08:23 GMT
That story made me roll my eyes right out of my head. They were loud and obnoxious. It wasn't appropriate for that venue. They were asked repeatedly to quiet down. They didn't have a private car- they were bothering other people who had also paid good money for that trip. The company said they have to do that very thing re: rowdy customers about once a month- it was nothing unusual or race related. I'd think they'd be embarrassed at their own behavior. ETA- I've been on a similar train/trip- and the cars are comfortable, but not huge. I was with a group of girlfriends, and we had a blast, without being loud and screamy. Being excessively loud in that kind of environment would have been unbearable- there's just no way NOT to impact other passengers. What did you read? The article.. never states that they were obnoxious, or "screamy".... Where do you come up with that? Maybe this article didn't say it- but the ones I've read have described just that. I didn't ' come up with' anything. Being loud and boisterous- 'just out for a good time' - sounds great. Probably would have been great, a lot of places. But in this place, it was not. This is a small enclosed space and there is no way to get away from the noise, for other people. Everyone paid to be on that trip- why should a few people with no decorum be more important than everyone else? If you want to be loud and uninhibited and obnoxious- choose a different venue where that behavior is more appropriate. There are some personalities in this world that feel it's their duty to entertain the masses, 'who wouldn't be interested' in what they say or do? It's inconceivable to them that they could just be flat out annoying to other people. I know people like this. I'm related to people like this. They come in all shapes, colors and sizes.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Aug 25, 2015 19:21:18 GMT
I just looked it up. Prices for a train tour start at $124 and go up that is if it was the cheapest lunch so this isn't like going to a bar it is an $$ day out. Not sure what they paid but I know around here with a groupon tours are maybe 120 for two hours if you have a group of six that's per person. Wouldn't you be ticked if someone was loud and ruining your splurge.
I looked at comments and they are getting slammed by angry people because they are "racist" but they also say that this happens about once a month. Unless they are also only black then it would be an issue but I bet it isn't.
I'm sorry they were embarrassed but they should have been as soon as someone complained and quieted down.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Aug 25, 2015 19:55:47 GMT
People of all colors need to remember there is a time and place for various actions. If this is a place that is normally quieter then party bus behavior is out of line. And when other paying customers complain it's nice when management responds and tries to correct the situation.
I don't find the actions of management racist from what is being reported.
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peabay
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Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Aug 25, 2015 20:24:47 GMT
I was with a group of ladies at a restaurant and we were definitely laughing too loud and they moved us out of the dining room. They put us in a tiny space, but we just laughed it off and continued with our dinner.
Unless every group they've asked off the train has been black, I don't think you can say it's racially motivated.
I know when we were at this restaurant, we were loud. I wouldn't say we were obnoxious, but we were loud. And a couple having dinner complained. We knew it was them because they were shooting us death glares the whole time. And when we were asked to move, we got even louder. It's human nature to get a little defensive when called on your behavior and I think that's at play here.
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