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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 30, 2015 13:13:46 GMT
I might be overly sensitive on this issue as I recently dealt with a very serious sudden injury to a young family member. I understand that young people in particular have difficult controlling their emotions - but at times I just wanted to bang some teenagers heads together and tell them to either get their shit together or leave. It's incredibly difficult for not only the patient, but the family to deal with hysterical visitors. I understand shedding tears, I understand having trouble dealing with seeing someone you love (whether it's family or friends) in pain, injured etc. But if you are at point where YOU are the center of attention and are requiring comfort, leave and come back when you're better able to deal with the situation. And as that teenager once, you have no idea how to react to this kind of stuff. We had trauma in our high school years. We saw more permanent injury and death happen in our circle than most people see in a life time. We were young and new to this whole grief thing... we didn't know that being hysterical and upset was a bad thing. We had hormones raging and new emotions that we were discovering. I'm sorry you felt that teenagers didn't behave the way you wanted them to. As that teenager, I can tell you that no one prepares you for this kind of shit or the emotions that it creates. I wish I could say I'm sorry that teenagers don't behave the way you want them to in a time of tragedy, but I'm not sorry. It's new territory for them and to expect them to act as an adult and be perfectly composed at all time so the adults in the room don't get uncomfortable is completely unreasonable. * edited - or should I say deleted. I've overshared and as I said earlier, this is still too raw for me.
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Country Ham
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Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Aug 30, 2015 13:13:52 GMT
I must just come from a different stock of people. This idea of creating a bubble around the person with a disease and protect them from emotions. Goodness, we like real, dirty messy emotions. People say "I got Cancer and now everyone stays away". To some extent these explanations explain why. If we can't be real no wonder people grasp at what to say. I would say a good 90% of people who say the wrong thing have hearts in the right place. If we hold up some kind of measuring stick and say "Can't believe you broke down in the room and we have you placed on the 4th ring of the circle of people important to my Mother". Don't you know in our minds you were regulated to the people only close enough to send a card and wave from the door group of people. no wonder neighbors and friends pull away. People just be real with each other.
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Post by Really Red on Aug 30, 2015 13:26:29 GMT
I am so sorry. Sobbing is just plain wrong. But tears? I'm not sure how that's avoidable. I try to hold it together as best I can (and am usually pretty good), but the hug at the end? I do lose it. No sobbing!
I'm sorry. You're right. It's too hard on your sister and she's the first person you have to take care of.
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maurchclt
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Jul 4, 2014 16:53:27 GMT
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Post by maurchclt on Aug 30, 2015 14:44:40 GMT
hugs, just such a hard situation, you take your cues from your sister, how she wants to deal with people, how she reacts to visitors, it's all about her and her needs. Just went through something similar with my sister, she was ok with sobbing in private and with family members, but wanted/ needed upbeat positive people around her at other times.
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calgal08
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Jun 27, 2014 15:43:46 GMT
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Post by calgal08 on Aug 30, 2015 14:48:55 GMT
I've learned there's not right and wrong way to show emotion. Many people have friends they are closer to than they are their own family. That being said, if I felt shedding a few tears was going to balloon into bawling chances are I would leave the room to get control of my emotion.
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Post by rst on Aug 30, 2015 15:35:04 GMT
Counttry Ham -- you truly are not understanding the concept I outlined. It's not about being less real or isolating the person from valiid emotion -- it's about recognizing what the needs are in that situation and giving authentic *and appropriate* emotional comfort to the person who actually needs it most. It's about observing consideration and context and appropriate behavior in the setting.
I would give some grace to young teens who haven't encountered tough situations before, but it's a great opportunity for adults to model ways in which they can be both emotionally authentic and empathetic and supportive to the person facing crisis.
Maybe out there in the world there is someone who feels validated and supported by a whole lot of free-floating drama and wailing tears in their time of crisis. IF you know for a fact that the person is gaining energy and strength from hearing you dump your negative emotions all over the place, then have at it. I'm not advocating perky and fake cheer either. It's not either/or. What I think most people do find to be comforting is to know that they are cared for, that they matter, they are not forgotten, and that the people in their world are available and willing to share some aspect of the burden. They're not looking for the perfect words or a great gift item so much as someone to listen, validate, empathize, and connect.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Aug 30, 2015 15:49:07 GMT
Perhaps you should hand out pamphlets or give a lecture on the behaviour you deem acceptable for visiting your sister. Maybe if you tell people how they should behave, maybe they will live up to your standards. The person's feelings you never mentioned in your attack on how other people behave is your sister. Did she have a problem with it? Was she uncomfortable? Or was it just you. Honestly? I think you need to step back and stop expecting others to follow your rules. I think people react to this kind of information differently and to say that people were acting "wrong" is just ridiculous and callous. wow that is a harsh reaction. I don't think you can control how others react and you don't know why someone is reacting the way they are. Maybe they had cancer or a loved one did and it is bringing back some emotional baggage. I do think we should try and restrain our emotions around the sick person. As others have said support in. But I would talk to your sister and see how she feels about the way her friends reacted.. follow her lead. Most important thing you can do is support her wishes and not create angst or discord around her or her friends. I will think of you all.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Aug 30, 2015 15:54:00 GMT
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Country Ham
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Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Aug 30, 2015 16:50:13 GMT
Counttry Ham -- you truly are not understanding the concept I outlined. I can't get my cursor to click outside the quote box for some reason. I do actually understand it. I don't 100% agree with it. From my own experience. My son was really really sick when he was an infant. Had surgery and it was just a couple hours post-op. I was exhausted cause the surgery went till 3:00am so I was raw. People were coming in and out. Finally my sister in law came in. She looked at him laying there and she started sobbing. Seeing her release her fears for her nephew actually had a cathartic affect on me. Everyone else was pussy footing around me like I was some fragile vase teetering on a shelf. That made me more jumpy/nervous/tense then my sister in law did with her sobbing.
side note: He is a 100% perfectly fine young man now. this was a lifetime ago.
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happymomma
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Aug 6, 2014 23:57:56 GMT
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Post by happymomma on Aug 30, 2015 18:52:00 GMT
First of all, I'm so sorry about your sister. But really, I am not understanding the distinction between family expressing their emotions and friends doing the same. You don't automatically hurt less because you don't share the same blood. I totally get that it may bother you that your sis might feel like she has to make others feel better and you don't want her to have to do that. But if that is your reasoning, why would you think it okay for her to have to comfort family but not others? Again I am sorry for your sister and hope you do come here and post for support, I just don't follow the logic in who is allowed to show their sadness and who is not. I might be misunderstanding?
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 2:35:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 19:42:13 GMT
So sorry. I may be considered a clinical, cold hearted bitch, but I don't think there should be tears and histrionics until the histology is known and maybe not even then. A tumor is a growth it doesn't mean it is malignant. I just went through this with a friend, she collapsed and had emergency brain surgery and didn't get her histology results for a couple of weeks (benign) all clear, just some issues from surgery for the next year but full recovery anticipated. So honestly, I think you are right to be a bit ticked off. For me it would be like they are already throwing dirt on her grave. Thoughts and prayer for a full recovery for your sister. I agree with you and unfortunately am qualified to give my 2 cents. My daughter has brain and spine tumors and spent 6 weeks (5 surgeries and later two more) in the hospital when she was first diagnosed at 17. There were times the stress, fear and grief in her room was nearly unbearable but I did not make a large sobbing scene (saved that for the shower down the hall) and neither did anyone else that visited. Every single visitor, no matter what age, held it together and cared for her in the most gentle way. Some came with sweet little gifts, prayers, and kind words and some came with silly stories and giggles. I would have politely, yet immediately kicked out anyone that would start sobbing as that would have really, REALLY upset my daughter. And like you said, brain tumors are not an automatic death sentence...... BUT can be devastating and life altering even if benign.
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 2:35:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 19:59:46 GMT
I might be overly sensitive on this issue as I recently dealt with a very serious sudden injury to a young family member. I understand that young people in particular have difficult controlling their emotions - but at times I just wanted to bang some teenagers heads together and tell them to either get their shit together or leave. It's incredibly difficult for not only the patient, but the family to deal with hysterical visitors. I understand shedding tears, I understand having trouble dealing with seeing someone you love (whether it's family or friends) in pain, injured etc. But if you are at point where YOU are the center of attention and are requiring comfort, leave and come back when you're better able to deal with the situation. And as that teenager once, you have no idea how to react to this kind of stuff. We had trauma in our high school years. We saw more permanent injury and death happen in our circle than most people see in a life time. We were young and new to this whole grief thing... we didn't know that being hysterical and upset was a bad thing. We had hormones raging and new emotions that we were discovering. I'm sorry you felt that teenagers didn't behave the way you wanted them to. As that teenager, I can tell you that no one prepares you for this kind of shit or the emotions that it creates. I wish I could say I'm sorry that teenagers don't behave the way you want them to in a time of tragedy, but I'm not sorry. It's new territory for them and to expect them to act as an adult and be perfectly composed at all time so the adults in the room don't get uncomfortable is completely unreasonable. You are right, teenagers do not automatically know how to act in a situation such as yours. Teenagers are in training to be adults. Teenagers also are full of themselves and can not think past their own feelings a lot of the time. As horrific as it is, this too is a time to teach them appropriate behavior, in my view. When my daughter was hospitalized and in a very scary situation, a group of her friends came to visit. I am certain the youth group leader that brought them to the hospital prepared them for what they would see and coached them on how to act for the sake of the patient not for me or any other adult. OP.....I want to add, I am so sorry you are going through this.
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Post by finsup on Aug 30, 2015 20:20:52 GMT
I'm very sorry about your sister.
I just returned from the visiting hours for a 20-year-old schoolmate/friend of my kids and son of a woman I'm friendly with who took his own life this week. I geared myself up before I went and I promise you that I'm very conscious and respectful of the fact that this was so not about me, but when I walked into the room the first thing I saw was a photo board with the "it's a boy" card from when he was born, and it gut-punched me. Then I looked around and saw the devastated faces of my kids' friends. And when I stepped up to give my condolences to his mom, I kind of lost it. I didn't mean to, I wasn't trying to make it about me, but I was just so freaking sad for her. I moved off quickly to spare her my dramatics, but I feel bad. I wasn't wailing and carrying on, but I'm still embarrassed and ashamed and hope I didn't cause her family any more pain or discomfort.
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zella
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Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Aug 31, 2015 4:19:22 GMT
rst, thank you; that was really wonderful advice. penny, I think you're working with that same information. I am very close to my sister. After her husband, it's me. She doesn't have kids. emelle64: I am so sorry for what you are going through. That is horrible. Or as my daughter's FB profile picture now says, "Cancer Sucks." Thank you for your kind words. grinningcat: gee, thanks for the support. And the assumptions. Like assuming I said anything. Which I didn't. You can just fuck right off; you're not welcome here as I TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT MY SISTER IS DYING, okay? Get it?
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zella
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Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Aug 31, 2015 4:38:47 GMT
happymomma: as you thought might have been the case, I didn't completely explain myself. The only family member that cried in front of my sister, I believe, was her husband. NONE of us are giving her the fake "oh everything's going to be just fine" kind of lines, because we all know it isn't going to be fine. I don't have an issue with anyone crying; it's just that sobbing uncontrollably which, IMO, makes it seem as though the sick person has to comfort the friend. And it can seem as though it is more about that friend than it is about the sick person. That's how I feel about it. And my sister definitely hasn't had to comfort any of us other than her hubby. Am I hurting? Of course I am. But first and foremost this is her tragedy, and I am here for her. Country Ham: no, it's not all sterile and protected from emotions. Not at all. But my sister very much wants to control when and how she shares different parts of her journey. And there are times when she wants to cry. And there are times when she wants to just have a normal conversation that has nothing to do with her illness. And there are times when she wants to laugh. Those closest to her know and understand this. @kelkeller: you have been to hell and back. I'm so sorry for what you went through. Or is this ongoing? I'm so sorry. What you describe in your daughter's hospital room was 99% of what it was like in my sister's room too. And lots of laughter. Her type of cancer is considered terminal. A few people have lived longer than 5 years with it. But that is a very small percentage. finsup: don't feel bad about that. That was a genuine show of emotion that you couldn't possibly have seen coming. How lovely that your card from 20 years prior was there. That didn't make the pain about you in any way at all.
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Post by rst on Aug 31, 2015 4:49:33 GMT
Zella -- I just read a book that I felt was really wonderful and positive about quality of life in the face of mortality-- possibly you've already come across it, but it's just such a good read, so well worth mentioning. Atul Gawande Being Mortal. He's very honest about the pain of loss, but at the same time, I thought he brought up useful and important things to consider. It's a book that might not be the best thing for your sister herself right this moment, but you or her DH might find it valuable, as would anyone in your wider circles of support.
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Mary Kay Lady
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PeaNut 367,913 Refupea number 1,638
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Jun 27, 2014 4:11:36 GMT
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Post by Mary Kay Lady on Aug 31, 2015 4:56:08 GMT
Interesting variety of opinions here; thank you for that. I still don't know how to tag people, but myshelly, not her BFF, not at all. The worst one was a coworker, actually. I didn't say anything to anyone. It's just my opinion. And as a couple of people above said, shedding tears and sobbing are two different things. RiverIsis: sadly we do have the results, or at least most of them. She has advanced brain cancer. We're waiting to find out if it's grade 3 or 4. We should find that out on Tuesday. This all came out of the blue. Really no warning signs. zella, I'm sorry that your sister is so ill. A prognosis like that would be very hard to grasp. She's blessed to have someone like you, who can be so level-headed and supportive of her during a time like this. Have you discussed with your sister the reaction of her friends and how she feels about it? If it bothers her maybe you could help her by setting behavior expectations of visitors.
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Post by patin on Aug 31, 2015 5:51:56 GMT
I am sorry to hear about your sister. (Hugs) to you.
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Post by AussieMeg on Aug 31, 2015 7:39:31 GMT
I do agree with you that people should try to hold it together so the sick person isn't the one doing the comforting. But it's hard, especially the first time you see them after the diagnosis. I went to see DD's boyfriend the day after his mum died (from a brain tumor actually) just before Christmas. I had planned to give him a hug and tell him how sorry I was, but instead I just started crying and could barely talk. I was mortified. I know that it a slightly different situation, but along the same lines of being able to control your emotions.
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Post by anonrefugee on Aug 31, 2015 14:22:50 GMT
finsup don't worry, some things are so abrupt and devastating it's all you can do. You weren't the only one. I'm sure.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Aug 31, 2015 14:33:37 GMT
I'm sorry about your sisters illness.
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Post by peasapie on Aug 31, 2015 14:35:49 GMT
I'm sorry to hear about your sister. This must be very hard on you. So sweet of you to be thinking of her and how she's feeling about this.
I hear what you're saying, and I know you are thinking of your sister's welfare and not having to take on everyone else's misery while dealing with her own. I'm uncomfortable with drama scenes and try to keep my sadness to myself if I think others will be burdened by my emotions. But we're all different and there's no right or wrong - just what's right for us.
As some people have said, I would discuss with your sister and let her call the shots.
I hope things go well for her -- and look forward to your updates.
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Post by jumperhop on Aug 31, 2015 16:02:57 GMT
I have a brain tumor. I really don't agree with you at all. Your sister has people who dearly love her. What a blessing this is for her to know that during this time.
I know this is a hard thing for you to see your sister like this. And dare I even say it was harder for me to see my loved ones go though this than it was for me to go through this. Before I had emergency brain surgery while I was in the ICU, I can tell you that the only thing I worried about was my children, parents and family. I was at peace with me dying. But grieving for their pain.
jen
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Post by RiverIsis on Aug 31, 2015 16:19:12 GMT
I think if your sister isn't comforted by the sobbing, then you can suggest being proactive and either personally being "guard" or alerting potential visitors as to what they will see and your sister's wishes.
I know I have been a position when I went to comfort a recently bereaved friend. Her sister (also my friend) and her daughter had been murdered. "So sorry for your loss" was and is so inadequate. I didn't completely breakdown but I just shook my head and hugged her. I know it wasn't about me, it was about knowing all the platitudes were inadequate at that time when there was a murderer on the loose.
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likescarrots
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Aug 16, 2014 17:52:53 GMT
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Post by likescarrots on Aug 31, 2015 16:39:15 GMT
I agree with you and personally would rather have no visitors than a bunch of sobbing people. I have always had major anxiety about being the cause of other people's stress, and the last thing i would need is that anxiety while i was fighting cancer. I also don't deal well with overly emotional people.
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flute4peace
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Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Aug 31, 2015 17:19:59 GMT
Interesting variety of opinions here; thank you for that. I still don't know how to tag people, but myshelly, not her BFF, not at all. The worst one was a coworker, actually. I didn't say anything to anyone. It's just my opinion. And as a couple of people above said, shedding tears and sobbing are two different things. RiverIsis: sadly we do have the results, or at least most of them. She has advanced brain cancer. We're waiting to find out if it's grade 3 or 4. We should find that out on Tuesday. This all came out of the blue. Really no warning signs. This is heartbreaking news, I'm so sorry.
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zella
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Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Aug 31, 2015 18:19:16 GMT
jumperhop : I am so very sorry to hear that you are going through this. I'd like to ask some questions of you, but I don't want to pry. It's a horrible diagnosis, it really is. All of this is really a moot point, at least for now, as I was visiting my sister in Tucson, and have had to return home. I just wanted to know what others thought about this issue. My family is British (as in I was born and raised there; my sister too, though she was younger when we left), so we may have different attitudes. But I tend to be very emotional and very open. Yet in this case, I'm not. It's clear to me, from the responses on this thread, that feelings are mixed about this issue. Right now we're all waiting for the final part of the diagnosis, hoping for the best but expecting the worst as her surgeon seemed to suggest this would be the case.
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craftykitten
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Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
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Post by craftykitten on Aug 31, 2015 18:27:30 GMT
I am really sorry that you're going through this.
From my own cancer experience, I would tend to agree with you - that I as the patient did not want to have to comfort other people. I did in fact end up having to comfort a colleague who burst into tears, which was...strange. But as my "journey" went on I realised that I didn't have to be responsible for other people's feelings and I could let go of the desire to reassure them. In the end, what helped me most was having an external person (my therapist) who was a safe place to express all my feelings about the cancer, and all my feelings about being responsible for other people.
I hope that you can find a safe place too. Hugs.
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back to *pea*ality
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Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Aug 31, 2015 18:51:15 GMT
I am very sorry about your sister.
The people coming to see her all have some kind of an emotional attachment to your sister which you may not share. A co-worker may be someone who sees your sister five days a week, week after week and year after year. Their connection may be confined to work only but they shared a daily life connection.
Maybe you can ask your sister how she feels about those visits. If they are emotionally draining then maybe visitors can be asked to try not to be over emotional. But if she finds it helpful and cathartic then just let it be.
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The Birdhouse Lady
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Jun 30, 2014 17:15:19 GMT
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Post by The Birdhouse Lady on Aug 31, 2015 18:57:35 GMT
I can see some people crying because they are heartbroken at the news and it would be a way for your sister to know that they are hurting.
Bawling would be a whole other ball of wax and I see how that would make your sister feel uncomfortable. I don't think she should have to console them when it is her that is the sick one and needs support.
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