lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,151
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Sept 1, 2015 1:00:47 GMT
Tishy, I'm so sorry you and your mom are having to go through this. I know how hard it is to make that type of decision because dad and I just went through it with mom. She died in early July after breaking her hip in April. The surgery was just too much for her to handle along with her dementia and diabetes. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 6, 2024 2:09:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 1:13:26 GMT
Tishy, I'm so sorry you and your mom are having to go through this. I know how hard it is to make that type of decision because dad and I just went through it with mom. She died in early July after breaking her hip in April. The surgery was just too much for her to handle along with her dementia and diabetes. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. lindas, I am sorry for the loss of your mom. Prayers to you and your dad. And thank you for your kind words.
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Post by mikklynn on Sept 1, 2015 2:24:51 GMT
I am so sorry. My dad is dealing with Parkinsons, too.
Hugs.
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Post by manomo on Sept 1, 2015 2:50:05 GMT
I am so sorry you and your family are going through this...as if dementia isn't enough of a heartbreaker.
As my mother declined with dementia, we made a conscious choice that all of our decisions about her care would revolve around her comfort (physical, mental and emotional). I found that when I looked at an option through that filter all the decisions were much easier to make and they came without guilt because it was always what was best for her.
My thoughts are with you.
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Post by papersilly on Sept 1, 2015 3:28:03 GMT
My mother is in the same situation - dementia and skin cancer. I have chosen not to treat the cancer. Every time they take her out of the assisted living facility for a doctors appointment it takes her two days to calm down to her normal demeanor. There is no way in the world I am putting her through surgery or other treatments. When I explained this to the dermatologist's nurse she told me that in my position she would not put her parent through treatment either. I think your dad's comfort during this very important to his overall being. would treating the cancer gain you more than the side effects and disruption to his daily life and other ailments? That's what I would have to consider.
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Post by miominmio on Sept 1, 2015 4:58:54 GMT
My grandmother died a year ago. She had suffered from dementia for several years, and when she was diagnosed with uterine cancer, her sons decided surhery wasn't in her best interest. However, some skin cancers can be treated fairly easily (my mom (66) got diagnosed a decade ago and was told it will not metastasize, but the tumors will grow if they're not treated). Every year or so, a new lesion pops up somewhere, she has a appointment at the dermatologist's, and no other treatment is necessary. I hope your dad's cancer is as easily treatable as my mom's. ((Hugs))
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kellycat89
New Member
Posts: 4
Sept 1, 2015 4:39:41 GMT
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Post by kellycat89 on Sept 1, 2015 5:12:05 GMT
Hello,
I've been a lurker for YEARS and I am in nursing school as a second career. I'm so very sorry you and your family are dealing with this. Over the summer I had a clinical experience at a long term care facility with patients experiencing many of the same challenges as your father. As I was assisting a CNA tube feed a 90 year old man who was completely bed bound and non verbal, I was struck by how poor his quality of life was and I think that is what you and your family have to consider. Had it been up to the medical staff, this man would not have been tube fed. He was starting the natural process of dying (your body needs a lot fewer nutrients when it is beginning to shut down and that's why terminal patients start to refuse food and water) but his family could not bear to let him go (completely understandable). So now this man lays in bed all day staring at the wall or TV not interacting with anyone. What kind of life is that? Would your father want to live like that? If the answer is yes, then by all means do all you can to keep him alive for as long as possible. I absolutely don't mean this to sound harsh. It must be an agonizing decision and one that many people can not think about until they are forced to.
You and your mother know your father is never going to return to the state of health he once enjoyed, but you can keep him as content and comfortable as possible given the circumstances. When considering treatment options I would urge you weigh the benefit of the treatment against the pain and suffering your father may experience and the quality of life he would have afterward. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with refusing an invasive, aggressive procedure it you feel it would do more harm than good. With that said, maybe surgery would relieve the pain he may be experiencing because of the sores and he would be much more comfortable after getting them removed. Significantly reducing his pain might be worth any worsening of dementia he may experience. Maybe giving meds is enough to keep the pain under control and he doesn't need the surgery. Finally, your mother is NOT neglecting him by choosing not to treat with chemo or radiation. She would be sparing him pain and suffering and giving a better quality of life with the time he has left.
My thoughts are with your family and all who love your father.
Kelly
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Post by mymindseyedpea on Sept 1, 2015 5:17:01 GMT
Well from a Louise Hay's point of reference the emotional side to cancer comes from resentment. And the skin represents individuality protection.
My grandmother had Alzheimer's and my friends dad had Dementia and Parkinson's. I wish I knew about this stuff sooner so I could have shared emotional healing with them. Cause if it was meant for their time to go at a soul level atleast they would have released those suppressed emotions before transition.
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Post by anniefb on Sept 1, 2015 5:30:40 GMT
No advice but just wanted to send hugs and say I'm sorry you're having to deal with such hard decisions.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 6, 2024 2:09:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2015 21:16:52 GMT
update in op as of 10/6/15.
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Post by rst on Oct 6, 2015 22:36:45 GMT
I am sorry -- that's tough news. I don't remember if I brought this up on your thread before -- forgive me if I'm a broken record-- but I recently read a book that was very helpful in working through the whole decision-making process when medical complications and aging make the choices hard: Being MortalIf your mom is still feeling some ambivalence about the options open to her, a conversation with a palliative care team or social worker might help her clarify her thoughts. I think what we all want, for ourselves and for our loved ones, is for every day to have the potential to be a good day, right to the last. Sometimes the actual interventions that are intended to cure or alleviate disease have the paradoxical effect of not only prolonging the downward spiral, but also removing the potential for the good days that could have been. It's a fair question to bring up in conversation with your Dad's medical team -- when you look at the potential benefits for surgery and radiation and weigh that against what he will gain in quality of life and increased lifespan, is there a net gain for him? Wishing you the best as you deal with a hard collection of issues.
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Post by marysue63 on Oct 6, 2015 23:08:36 GMT
Are you sure it's lymphoma? That is a blood cancer of the lymph system. Is it possibly melanoma?
Either way I'm sorry to hear this. I also have an elderly parent and it can be very difficult to watch your parents age, especially when they are sick.
Hugs to you!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 6, 2024 2:09:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2015 23:13:43 GMT
Are you sure it's lymphoma? That is a blood cancer of the lymph system. Is it possibly melanoma? Either way I'm sorry to hear this. I also have an elderly parent and it can be very difficult to watch your parents age, especially when they are sick. Hugs to you! They told my mom it was not melanoma. Thanks.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 6, 2024 2:09:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2015 23:25:21 GMT
I am sorry -- that's tough news. I don't remember if I brought this up on your thread before -- forgive me if I'm a broken record-- but I recently read a book that was very helpful in working through the whole decision-making process when medical complications and aging make the choices hard: Being MortalIf your mom is still feeling some ambivalence about the options open to her, a conversation with a palliative care team or social worker might help her clarify her thoughts. I think what we all want, for ourselves and for our loved ones, is for every day to have the potential to be a good day, right to the last. Sometimes the actual interventions that are intended to cure or alleviate disease have the paradoxical effect of not only prolonging the downward spiral, but also removing the potential for the good days that could have been. It's a fair question to bring up in conversation with your Dad's medical team -- when you look at the potential benefits for surgery and radiation and weigh that against what he will gain in quality of life and increased lifespan, is there a net gain for him? Wishing you the best as you deal with a hard collection of issues. Thank you rst. I am going to look into the book tonight. My dad does have a palliative care team/hospice team. My mom, brother, husband and myself are of the mind that we do not want to put him through anything that may make him worse. Surgeries/anesthesia is what push him over the edge with the dementia. We feel that putting him under for surgery would not be a good thing at all. She just had a short conversation with the person from the dermatologist office. I am sure she will be speaking with his primary tomorrow. We know he will not gain quality of life or increased lifespan. My best friend died 11 years ago. She was only 38. She had suffered cancer for 3 years before it took her life. Her husband had said after the funeral, had they know the terrible side effects from the surgeries, medicines ect, they would have gone with quality instead of quantity of life. I know my mom though, and she will feel her "Catholic guilt" no matter the decision she makes. Thank you for your words.
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Post by mikklynn on Oct 7, 2015 0:29:34 GMT
I am so sorry.
This is a good reminder to complete my medical directive so my own kids know just what to do.
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akathy
What's For Dinner?
Still peaing from Podunk!
Posts: 4,546
Location: North Dakota
Jun 25, 2014 22:56:55 GMT
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Post by akathy on Oct 7, 2015 0:41:40 GMT
I'm so sorry @tishy. It's so hard to see your parents decline. I have no advice but wanted you to know you'll be in my prayers. Hugs!
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eastcoastpea
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,252
Jun 27, 2014 13:05:28 GMT
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Post by eastcoastpea on Oct 7, 2015 1:02:25 GMT
No tips from me, but lots of hugs.
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marimoose
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,282
Jul 22, 2014 2:10:14 GMT
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Post by marimoose on Oct 7, 2015 3:02:25 GMT
If it were me, I'd think long and hard about any kind of general anesthesia or surgery, because it appeared to worsen my MILs dementia. Do the lesions bother him? Could they be removed at the assisted living with a local anesthetic? I'd think about the balance of benefits. If the lesions are bothersome, and could be removed without causing too much additional distress, then maybe that's a route to consider. If the cure will cause more pain, then maybe leaving it alone is the best answer. Good luck. It's a hard choice to make. I agree with all of this. I really agree with the anesthesia portion. My aunt, who is 84, and was of very sharp mind, needed to have surgery because of a severely bad knee. The knee was taken care of but here we are 3 months later and she is just getting out of a rehab facility and has no idea who or where she is. It is so sad to see for the family and they hope that now she is home that it may help her regain some of her thoughts. She had no signs of any dementia so I would be really fearful of the effects if you go into surgery already having issues. I can only send hugs and hope for the strength needed as your family deals with these decisions.
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zella
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,884
Jul 7, 2014 19:36:30 GMT
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Post by zella on Oct 8, 2015 2:51:48 GMT
I come at this from two angles: as a nurse who primarily cares for the elderly, most of whom have some dementia; and as the daughter of a man who had both Parkinson's and dementia (Lewy Body dementia for those of you familiar with it) and died from this. And my response is the same.
Don't do anything that would extend his life at all. Period. Only do treatments that will ease pain. Period. Don't let doctors talk you into performing interventions that will make him live longer. If your dad has any quality of life left now, he won't have soon. Dementia is a cruel, cruel disease, and often more so for the family than the sufferer, at least once they lose awareness of their situation. Your mom is completely right to worry about surgery, and specifically anesthesia. So don't do it. It's high risk with minimal reward. Without intervention will your dad die faster than he would die from the dementia? Almost certainly yes. But is that a bad thing? I'm sorry if this is blunt, but when you see people become just shells of who they were, their memories gone, not knowing their own families, perhaps having completely different personalities, some of them content but some of them depressed and crying. . . it's no way to live.
Palliative care. It is the only kind thing to do. Your dad may qualify for hospice care. They are the experts in this field and can be a huge source of help and comfort.
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Post by scrapbookwriter on Oct 8, 2015 3:14:25 GMT
I will share my experience in case it is useful.
Both my parents were in skilled nursing care - my dad due to heart issues and my mom because of a severe stroke. Neither of them had dementia. Both developed skin cancer.
Since my dad was in congestive heart failure, I chose not to treat the skin cancer on his face. The cancer didn't cause him pain and he would die of heart failure long before the cancer reached that level of seriousness.
My mom developed a cancerous lesion on her head that itched and bled and really bothered her. I had that cancer removed and she was much more comfortable.
Their comfort was my primary concern.
Later my dad fell and broke his hip, leaving him immobilized in his bed. The surgeon urged me to have surgery done to repair his hip, but used phrases like "I THINK we can get him through surgery." It was clear to me that Dad had a good chance of dying on the operating table. I opted to skip the surgery and just treat the pain. I let him stay in his own bed at his wonderful nursing home where he loved the aides and had made friends. Pain meds made him comfortable. He died in his bed two days later with a smile on his face.
I wish you peace in your decisions. This is a difficult time of life for all involved.
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mlana
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,523
Jun 27, 2014 19:58:15 GMT
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Post by mlana on Oct 8, 2015 17:30:54 GMT
I am so sorry you and your family are going thru this. We recently faced this sort of situation, and this is what we did.
We lost Granny, my mom's mom, on 8/9/15. Granny was a fighter and she didn't want to go one minute sooner than she had to. In the early part of her illness, she wanted my mom to promise that she would do whatever it took to prolong Granny's life, regardless of what quality that life would have. My mom couldn't make that promise, especially after having been told by every one of Granny's caregivers that the end pain would be bad. Instead of making a promise that she knew she couldn't keep, Mom told Granny that, as long as Granny's mind was good and she was able to make decisions, whatever Granny wanted would be what they did. When Granny was no longer able to make her own decisions, though, Mom would make the choices that caused Granny the least amount of pain. Mom stuck to this and, once Granny was in so much pain she required morphine to control it, Mom made the decision to not continue any treatment other than keeping Granny comfortable.
I was really worried that Mom would drown in guilt when Granny was gone, but she didn't. She says that Granny's wishes were carried out as far as they made sense, then Mom did what was the most merciful. Period. Mom said that once it became obvious that Granny's pain had reached the level that keeping her conscious was cruel and she wasn't going to get any better, the decision to let her go as swiftly as possible was as easy as such a decision could be. I'm so grateful that my mom has been able to accept that her choices were absolutely the kindest things she could have done.
I wish you and your family peace with whatever choices you make.
Marcy
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 8, 2015 17:41:32 GMT
I come at this from two angles: as a nurse who primarily cares for the elderly, most of whom have some dementia; and as the daughter of a man who had both Parkinson's and dementia (Lewy Body dementia for those of you familiar with it) and died from this. And my response is the same. Don't do anything that would extend his life at all. Period. Only do treatments that will ease pain. Period. Don't let doctors talk you into performing interventions that will make him live longer. If your dad has any quality of life left now, he won't have soon. Dementia is a cruel, cruel disease, and often more so for the family than the sufferer, at least once they lose awareness of their situation. Your mom is completely right to worry about surgery, and specifically anesthesia. So don't do it. It's high risk with minimal reward. Without intervention will your dad die faster than he would die from the dementia? Almost certainly yes. But is that a bad thing? I'm sorry if this is blunt, but when you see people become just shells of who they were, their memories gone, not knowing their own families, perhaps having completely different personalities, some of them content but some of them depressed and crying. . . it's no way to live. Palliative care. It is the only kind thing to do. Your dad may qualify for hospice care. They are the experts in this field and can be a huge source of help and comfort. I'm sorry for your pain zella. A loved one went through something similar with their Mom. It was just horrific. I think it was the personality changes that hurt her the most. It was truly heartbreaking to see a person who loved and cared for you for your whole life turn mean and cruel and at times just a vicious stranger. She says it's horrible to lose a parent, but to lose a parent to a stranger - it's just really, really hard.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 6, 2024 2:09:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2015 15:45:08 GMT
update in op 10/9/15
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 9, 2015 15:48:58 GMT
I'm sorry Tishy for all that you and your family are going through.
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Post by mikklynn on Oct 9, 2015 15:55:32 GMT
I'm so sorry.
I have to agree, with this was my dad, I would say no to chemo. It's not going to improve his quality of life.
Hugs.
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Post by leslie132 on Oct 9, 2015 16:03:57 GMT
I'm so sorry you are going through this. Cancer, at any age.....sucks.
Maybe this isn't right to post. I hope you understand it is coming from a loving place as I'm saying this in love. My Dad had cancer and passed 10 years ago. It was the hardest event to navigate. While we wanted him back healthy, we had to make a choice at one point that was best for him. Your mom, while she may be heart broken to be making these choices, truly needs to know she is giving your Dad his dignity back. Cancer strips you of everything. Your Mom is giving him love, quality and care. He is a man that is treasured.
While it was hard to watch what took place with my Dad....it was an honor to help him at the end of his life, as he had helped me at the beginning. Prayers and love are being sent your way.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 6, 2024 2:09:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2015 16:25:32 GMT
I'm so sorry, tishy. Praying for peace and comfort for your parents, as well as you and their entire family.
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Post by twinks on Oct 9, 2015 17:16:38 GMT
Hugs to you and your parents. These are the hardest decisions a family has to make. I felt like my heart and my head were never further apart than when making decisions for my Mom. I will be keeping you and your parents in my thoughts and prayers. I empathize with what you are going through.
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Post by lbp on Oct 9, 2015 18:36:44 GMT
I am so sorry for this update. I think in your place I would do the same. My thoughts and prayers are with your family.
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maurchclt
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,618
Jul 4, 2014 16:53:27 GMT
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Post by maurchclt on Oct 9, 2015 18:41:29 GMT
Hugs, I also have a mom suffering with dementia, in the same situation, I would probably opt to not treat the cancer. More hugs.
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