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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 23:13:33 GMT
***10/9/15 pm: Thank you all for your kind words. Thank you for sharing your family stories. Thanks you for your prayers and just being here to listen. I told my daughter just now. She is upset, but I reminded her that papa has lived a long life. I texted the social worker from the hospice team to have a chaplain call my mom so she will understand she is doing the kind and loving thing letting him be.
**10/9/15. The cancer is Large B Cell Lymphoma. They said chemo. Mom spoke to the Hospice people and they said if he starts chemo, he would have to come off of Hospice. The person from the Dr. office said if this where her relative with all the same issues as my dad, they would not do chemo. I am pretty sure this is how we will proceed. No chemo. Keep comfortable and pain free. My mom is a mess.
**10/6/15 small update:
He has lymphoma. Two legions on his skin. we do not have the details yet. The derm. will fax to the primary Dr. My mom was told surgery and radiation.
As you all know my dad is in an assisted living facility due to dementia and parkinsons. His primary care Dr. said the large blister type thing on his left wrist is a skin cancer. He has an appointment with the Derm, but not for a few weeks. The facility called to tell my mom he now has one on his other arm. And earlier this month the original one ruptured.
He will be 82 on 9/6. He has been much more confused this last month or so. Loosing weight.
My mom is so torn as to how to treat this cancer thing. She feels if she where to have a surgery done and he is put under he will have no mind left at all since that is what caused the dementia. She feels like she is neglecting him and doing him harm if she doesnt treat the cancer. She is worried that if she treats the cancer, the meds will make him sick. She is so depressed.
I just needed to ramble. What have the Peas done who have found themselves in this situation?
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Post by KikiPea on Aug 31, 2015 23:16:13 GMT
I have no advice, but I am so sorry. That's a lot to deal with. Hugs and prayers for the right decision!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 23:19:03 GMT
I have no advice, but I am so sorry. That's a lot to deal with. Hugs and prayers for the right decision! Thank you KikiPea. He is so frail, confused and pathetic. He was so strong, funny, able and it was all taken away with so quickly. |
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caro
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Post by caro on Aug 31, 2015 23:20:05 GMT
I'm sorry. DH and I care for both our mothers and it's hard, very hard.
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Post by brina on Aug 31, 2015 23:23:09 GMT
My mother is in the same situation - dementia and skin cancer. I have chosen not to treat the cancer. Every time they take her out of the assisted living facility for a doctors appointment it takes her two days to calm down to her normal demeanor. There is no way in the world I am putting her through surgery or other treatments. When I explained this to the dermatologist's nurse she told me that in my position she would not put her parent through treatment either.
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Post by peanutterbutter on Aug 31, 2015 23:24:11 GMT
Dementia is so devastating. My father is in a nursing home and has dementia also, and we realize that issues like this could come up at any time. For me personally, it will be an issue of safety and comfort. He won't "get better", so at that point I would probably be looking at palliative or hospice care for him. I'm sorry your family has to make these decisions, and I wish you peace with them.
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Post by 2peaornot2pea on Aug 31, 2015 23:27:08 GMT
I'm sorry. {{{ hugs to you and your mom }}}
Honestly, if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't have the doctors do surgery to remove the cancer. It would mean transporting him to/from the surgery facility, which is HARD on the frail and elderly. With his dementia, he is likely to become more confused and agitated being away from familiar surroundings. And the surgery and anesthesia could worsen his dementia as well.
Given his current condition, I would just make sure to have comfort and palliative care measures in place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 23:28:52 GMT
My mother is in the same situation - dementia and skin cancer. I have chosen not to treat the cancer. Every time they take her out of the assisted living facility for a doctors appointment it takes her two days to calm down to her normal demeanor. There is no way in the world I am putting her through surgery or other treatments. When I explained this to the dermatologist's nurse she told me that in my position she would not put her parent through treatment either. My mom and I and my brother have discussed not having him go through any other treatments and "handling" at this point, but my mother feels such guilt. We know he will not get better, and do not want to prolong anything, yet she feels as if she is making him suffer and that she is a bad person if she doesnt treat the cancer. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 23:30:32 GMT
Dementia is so devastating. My father is in a nursing home and has dementia also, and we realize that issues like this could come up at any time. For me personally, it will be an issue of safety and comfort. He won't "get better", so at that point I would probably be looking at palliative or hospice care for him. I'm sorry your family has to make these decisions, and I wish you peace with them. peanutterbutter, He actually is under palliative care from a Hospice while in this facility. That has helped a bit. I told my mom she needs to reach out to his team. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 23:32:58 GMT
I'm sorry. {{{ hugs to you and your mom }}} Honestly, if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't have the doctors do surgery to remove the cancer. It would mean transporting him to/from the surgery facility, which is HARD on the frail and elderly. With his dementia, he is likely to become more confused and agitated being away from familiar surroundings. And the surgery and anesthesia could worsen his dementia as well. Given his current condition, I would just make sure to have comfort and palliative care measures in place. 2peaornot2pea, This is what we will most likely go with. It just makes my mom, ok, and myself, feel guilty.I just want him to have peace. Thank you. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 23:33:33 GMT
I'm sorry. DH and I care for both our mothers and it's hard, very hard. Thank you for your thoughts. I am also sorry you and your dh had to go through this. |
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gsquaredmom
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Post by gsquaredmom on Aug 31, 2015 23:42:23 GMT
Wait to see what the derm says. You guys don't have enough info to make a decision. Skin cancer is usually slow growing. One on each arm does not necessarily mean it spread.
Localized skin cancer can usually be frozen. No reason not to treat. If local anesthetic can be used for a little more invasive treatment, ok. If general anesthetic is the issue, discuss other options with doctor if needed. See an oncologist if needed. You need more info!!!!! You cannot make a decision based on what you now know.
My opinion is that if you would treat the skin cancer without the other conditions, then treat it.
His body is breaking down. And he has some bad luck. But treating very treatable conditions is pretty standard. Now, if he has a heart attack and a DNR or a massive stroke, the decisions may be very different.
My dad had advanced Parkinsons. His mind was still pretty sharp. I dreaded the horrible end of Parkinsons. I actually hoped he would somehow be spared that end. I knew paralysis and feeding tubes would be the last thing he would want. He was otherwise very healthy. And we had dozens of skin cancers cryo frozen off. Why not treat?
What finally got him was a brain tumor. Diagnosed and gone in three weeks. Not a heart attack, but he did not suffer and we got to say goodbye. It was horrible for all of us, but it was a blessing in disguise. Had it been found earlier, he/we might have chosen some treatment, but it was found far too late.
I wish all of you the best.
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Post by mommythree on Aug 31, 2015 23:43:09 GMT
Tishy..Iam so sorry for you and your family...dementia, by itself, is so devastating. and parkinsons and skin cancer...life is so unfair! I watched my dad suffer with dementia and congestive heart failure. he was diagnosed with skin cancer too, and they wanted to do a procedure under anesthesia.. we decided against it. he had surgery 9 months before for his back, and he honestly never came back the same after the anesthesia. it's a heartbreaking situation, I pray you find comfort in your decision. hugs to you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 23:45:08 GMT
Wait to see what the derm says. You guys don't have enough info to make a decision. Skin cancer is usually slow growing. One on each arm does not necessarily mean it spread. Localized skin cancer can usually be frozen. No reason not to treat. If local anesthetic can be used for a little more invasive treatment, ok. If general anesthetic is the issue, discuss other options with doctor if needed. See an oncologist if needed. You need more info!!!!! You cannot make a decision based on what you now know. My opinion is that if you would treat the skin cancer without the other conditions, then treat it. His body is breaking down. And he has some bad luck. But treating very treatable conditions is pretty standard. Now, if he has a heart attack and a DNR or a massive stroke, the decisions may be very different. My dad had advanced Parkinsons. His mind was still pretty sharp. I dreaded the horrible end of Parkinsons. I actually hoped he would somehow be spared that end. I knew paralysis and feeding tubes would be the last thing he would want. He was otherwise very healthy. And we had dozens of skin cancers cryo frozen off. Why not treat? What finally got him was a brain tumor. Diagnosed and gone in three weeks. Not a heart attack, but he did not suffer and we got to say goodbye. It was horrible for all of us, but it was a blessing in disguise. Had it been found earlier, he/we might have chosen some treatment, but it was found far too late. I wish all of you the best. guardsmom, thank you for the info. As I said, I was rambling. The information on freezing it off is something I did not know. Thank you so much. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 23:45:26 GMT
I was in a sort of similar situation. My dad had a car accident and ended up with a head injury, a broken neck, and a crushed hip. The head injury caused almost immediate dementia (it was weird because the first 3-4 days he seemed fine and then he got a fever and that was the end of his mental capacity). Because of his injuries, he had to be fed with a tube. He was in intensive care for a month and then moved to a facility. His neck actually healed although he never could swallow again. His hip would not heal. The orthopedic surgeon suggested a bone graft. Not only that, but he would have had to be relocated to Chicago to have it (over an hour away). I sought the advice of his primary care doctor (as well as a couple of others) and said "just tell me what you would do if it was YOUR father." Not one of them suggested the bone graft. It wasn't going to improve his life. By that time, he had lost so much muscle mass, he wasn't going to walk again anyway. He didn't seem in pain. It was clear that his life was ending. I've never for a moment regretted that decision.
Sometimes we just don't have to treat everything if the treatment is not going to vastly improve someone's life.
ETA: I didn't really make my point clear. The point was that the orthopedic surgeon was recommending what he would do to correct the problem he was seeing my dad for. He was not looking at him as a whole patient. Seek the advice of medical care providers who consider the whole picture of your dad's condition.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 23:46:48 GMT
Tishy..Iam so sorry for you and your family...dementia, by itself, is so devastating. and parkinsons and skin cancer...life is so unfair! I watched my dad suffer with dementia and congestive heart failure. he was diagnosed with skin cancer too, and they wanted to do a procedure under anesthesia.. we decided against it. he had surgery 9 months before for his back, and he honestly never came back the same after the anesthesia. it's a heartbreaking situation, I pray you find comfort in your decision. hugs to you. mommythree, thank you for your kind words. I am also sorry for your situation. My dad had two surgeries within 3 months and he never came back from the second one. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 23:48:04 GMT
I was in a sort of similar situation. My dad had a car accident and ended up with a head injury, a broken neck, and a crushed hip. The head injury caused almost immediate dementia (it was weird because the first 3-4 days he seemed fine and then he got a fever and that was the end of his mental capacity). Because of his injuries, he had to be fed with a tube. He was in intensive care for a month and then moved to a facility. His neck actually healed although he never could swallow again. His hip would not heal. The orthopedic surgeon suggested a bone graft. Not only that, but he would have had to be relocated to Chicago to have it (over an hour away). I sought the advice of his primary care doctor (as well as a couple of others) and said "just tell me what you would do if it was YOUR father." Not one of them suggested the bone graft. It wasn't going to improve his life. By that time, he had lost so much muscle mass, he wasn't going to walk again anyway. He didn't seem in pain. It was clear that his life was ending. I've never for a moment regretted that decision. Sometimes we just don't have to treat everything if the treatment is not going to vastly improve someone's life. Burning Feather, I remember when you lost your dad. Thank you for sharing your story again and feelings. |
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quiltz
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Post by quiltz on Aug 31, 2015 23:49:09 GMT
@tishy, My heart goes out to you. I can understand your mom's point of view, as she is facing her own fate (death) and is truly scared of not having her husband with her. Hospice is wonderful to provide care. Your dad's body is simply worn out. Just keep him comfortable and the pain under control. I lost both of my parents, my dad was 72 and my mom was 75. My mom was so scared after dad passed. She didn't know how to live without him and 4 years (almost to the day) later, she passed.
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purplebee
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Post by purplebee on Aug 31, 2015 23:52:41 GMT
Hugs to you and your family, Tishy. You sound like you have your Dad's care and comfort as your priority.
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Post by utmr on Aug 31, 2015 23:55:01 GMT
If it were me, I'd think long and hard about any kind of general anesthesia or surgery, because it appeared to worsen my MILs dementia.
Do the lesions bother him? Could they be removed at the assisted living with a local anesthetic?
I'd think about the balance of benefits. If the lesions are bothersome, and could be removed without causing too much additional distress, then maybe that's a route to consider. If the cure will cause more pain, then maybe leaving it alone is the best answer.
Good luck. It's a hard choice to make.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 23:56:32 GMT
@tishy, My heart goes out to you. I can understand your mom's point of view, as she is facing her own fate (death) and is truly scared of not having her husband with her. Hospice is wonderful to provide care. Your dad's body is simply worn out. Just keep him comfortable and the pain under control. I lost both of my parents, my dad was 72 and my mom was 75. My mom was so scared after dad passed. She didn't know how to live without him and 4 years (almost to the day) later, she passed. lostinspace, yes, my mom is afraid. She feels everything is being taken from her. I am sorry for the loss of you mom and dad. Thank you for your kind words. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 23:57:15 GMT
I don't know what to say to you other than I'm so sorry and you are in our thoughts and prayers. My dad died from complications from Parkinson's last year after a long battle. The last two years were really bad. I can't imagine adding one more complication or illness to it, let alone cancer. Please take care. Thank you Julie W. I am also sorry for the loss of your father. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 23:58:15 GMT
Hugs to you and your family, Tishy. You sound like you have your Dad's care and comfort as your priority. purplebee, Thank you so very much. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 23:59:22 GMT
If it were me, I'd think long and hard about any kind of general anesthesia or surgery, because it appeared to worsen my MILs dementia. Do the lesions bother him? Could they be removed at the assisted living with a local anesthetic? I'd think about the balance of benefits. If the lesions are bothersome, and could be removed without causing too much additional distress, then maybe that's a route to consider. If the cure will cause more pain, then maybe leaving it alone is the best answer. Good luck. It's a hard choice to make. utmr, thank you for your words and thoughts. I know we will not go anywhere near general anesthesia again. |
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NoWomanNoCry
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Post by NoWomanNoCry on Sept 1, 2015 0:04:07 GMT
*hugs*
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 0:12:12 GMT
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Post by rst on Sept 1, 2015 0:12:41 GMT
Tishy,
A wonderful book on weighing just such situations in a wise and compassionate way -- Being Mortal by Atul Guwande. He's an excellent writer, very easy to follow and engaging. You wouldn't think that a book about quality of life in the face of aging and disbility would be a page turner that you can't put down but it was for me. He offers a way to make choices and evaluate the priorities of the individual in situations like you describe. I don't know if your mom would be up for reading it, but the concepts in it might help her to let go of the negative feelings of guilt and loss and be able to focus on putting value into the time he has left, whatever his cognitive state.
I truly am sorry your family is facing this. My DH has young onset PD, and it's brutally difficult to see the onset of dementia symptoms. I know first hand how hard it is to deal with the relentlessly ongoing losses from a progressive disease.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 0:20:26 GMT
Tishy, A wonderful book on weighing just such situations in a wise and compassionate way -- Being Mortal by Atul Guwande. He's an excellent writer, very easy to follow and engaging. You wouldn't think that a book about quality of life in the face of aging and disbility would be a page turner that you can't put down but it was for me. He offers a way to make choices and evaluate the priorities of the individual in situations like you describe. I don't know if your mom would be up for reading it, but the concepts in it might help her to let go of the negative feelings of guilt and loss and be able to focus on putting value into the time he has left, whatever his cognitive state. I truly am sorry your family is facing this. My DH has young onset PD, and it's brutally difficult to see the onset of dementia symptoms. I know first hand how hard it is to deal with the relentlessly ongoing losses from a progressive disease. rst, thank you. I will look up the book on my Kindle. And I too am sorry for your DH and his illness. Strength to you both. |
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Post by lostwithout2peas on Sept 1, 2015 0:47:30 GMT
I just wanted to say I am sorry for what you are going thru. Making this big decisions for our parents is so hard. I know when we decided it was time for hospice for my 68 year old father who was battling cancer, it ripped me up inside. But I knew it was the right thing to do, even if my head was screaming your gonna kill your dad? But my heart was saying he's suffered enough, the most loving thing I could do was to let him go.  I hope you find peace in whatever it is you decide to do. My prayers are with you and your family. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 0:52:15 GMT
I just wanted to say I am sorry for what you are going thru. Making this big decisions for our parents is so hard. I know when we decided it was time for hospice for my 68 year old father who was battling cancer, it ripped me up inside. But I knew it was the right thing to do, even if my head was screaming your gonna kill your dad? But my heart was saying he's suffered enough, the most loving thing I could do was to let him go. I hope you find peace in whatever it is you decide to do. My prayers are with you and your family. Charliegirl, I am sorry for the loss of your dad. And I thank you for your kind words. |
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I hope you find peace in whatever it is you decide to do. My prayers are with you and your family.