Deleted
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Jun 2, 2024 9:58:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2016 19:43:53 GMT
I have no patience for cheaters, but I also don't live in anyone else's marriage. I think there are better choices than cheating if you're unhappy, but I don't get to impose my opinions on everyone. If a friend of mine cheated or got involved with someone married, I would keep my trap shut if they were a casual friend. If they were a close friend, I would talk to them about it and let them know I was worried they would get hurt - or hurt someone - but it's their choice to make. I would not end a friendship over it, unless there were particularly egregious circumstances.
I wouldn't spend time with them as a couple when they were cheating, because I wouldn't want to involve myself that much. But once they were single, if they continued their relationship, I would treat them like any other couple. Ongoing judgment isn't my bag.
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Post by leftturnonly on Apr 11, 2016 19:46:35 GMT
I choose to accept that good people sometimes make bad choices.
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Post by elaine on Apr 11, 2016 19:47:32 GMT
Why is the problem with the girlfriend/fiancé? Why is she the one you are worried about how you are going to treat?
The husband is the one who broke marriage vows and cheated on his wife - I would think he should be the one the disgust is directed towards, and it should be more awkward having him around whether he has his fiancé there or not.
I really hate it when the "other woman" gets all the blame, when the husband is the one who cheated on his vows. If cheating really bothers you (general you), you should have a harder time being around the husband/dad than his fiancé.
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Post by deekaye on Apr 11, 2016 20:04:15 GMT
I think cheating is immoral and wrong and selfish and I would never be friends with anyone who cheated...
...except I am. 'Met a new co-worker about six years ago and became friendly at work. We began to do social things outside of work with our husbands and we all became really good friends. 'Knew that they had both been previously married but it was a few years before they admitted that they had each cheated on their spouses (with each other).
I will admit that it set me back a bit but by then we were really good friends and continue to be to this day.
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scrapaddie
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,090
Jul 8, 2014 20:17:31 GMT
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Post by scrapaddie on Apr 11, 2016 20:20:16 GMT
I am afraid I am judgmental ... And would not be friends ... My experience is colored by the fact that a 'friend'. Had an affair with a married man ..... Mine!
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Post by bc2ca on Apr 11, 2016 20:20:57 GMT
This is an interesting discussion. The closest I have been to a situation like this was when a good friend, S, became involved with a coworker, D. From her perspective, his marriage was over and D pursued her when he left his wife, C. From C's perspective, S lured happily married D into an affair. It was really hard to listen to each side of the story, knowing how the other felt and I had to walk away from being a confidant to either.
We all worked for the same company. C & I in the same department (HR), but C & S did not know each other at all. I really, really liked both women and really did not like D. My DH loves S and cannot stand D, so our friendship with S slowed down to nothing within a couple of years. C is still patiently waiting for D to come to his senses and return home almost 25 years later. Their 2 kids are in their mid 20s now and it was years before C would allow them to stay overnight at D & S's house. He was fine with this because looking after the kids was never "his thing".
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Post by melanell on Apr 11, 2016 20:28:31 GMT
I haven't had that situation, but I had a friend who was already divorced, but who was seeing a married man. She asked my opinion about it before she started seeing him, and I told her I thought it was a terrible idea.
But once she opted to go for it, I kept my mouth shut about my opinion---she already knew it. I did offer an ear when it turned out to be a very stressful, difficult time period for her. She was still my friend, even if I did think she had made this mess herself. She knew she made the mess, too, so there was no point in rubbing her face in it. I just stuck by and eventually she opted to end the relationship.
So, while I never supported the relationship at all, I also never went on and on against it after stating my opinion in the very beginning.
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Post by not2peased on Apr 11, 2016 20:41:32 GMT
not my circus, not my monkeys
I support and love my friends, even when they do stuff I don't approve of
<edited to add> my dad cheated on my mom with a much younger woman he later ended up marrying. my life was forever altered because of his stupid decision
I still try not to judge others, even though I know firsthand the havoc cheating can wreak
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Post by mom on Apr 11, 2016 21:29:35 GMT
While I agree, we are all flawed - if you are consciously breaking your marriage vows and continue to do so...yeah, thats more than just flawed. I do not think I could be friends with someone who behaves that way. My marriage is my most important relationship (besides my relationship with Christ). I can support being flawed. I can't support continuing to break your vows. My close friends are people who have the same values and morals that I do. I don't expect them to be perfect but I do expect them to honor their vows. While I agree with you that I want to see people honor their vows and I think it is devastating when people don't, I wonder what you would do if this were a friend or family member of yours? Would you stop all contact? I wouldn't stop all contact - but I would keep them at a distance. While I wouldn't forget they ever lived, I would not include them in my inner circle. If I went to a person in my inner circle, telling them my marriage was in trouble, I would want to know they are going to help me walk through my troubles and not just go find a boyfriend. I should say: I am biased. My first husband had an affair and fathered a child with the woman (she was married as well). There are some faults I can forgive - but breaking up marriages is not one of them that I could forgive easily if it were someone who I was close to.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Apr 11, 2016 21:37:53 GMT
I can't stand adultery and have dropped three friends because they cheated on their spouses. I've not had the need to accept their new loves because I didn't spend time with them again.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Apr 11, 2016 21:40:38 GMT
what if you are friends...and then you find out...years later that her relationship started as an affair? gina I've been in that situation. Since I already considered them both friends I stuck it out. But I lost a lot of respect for them both and shut down any marital advice or relationship talk after that.
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Post by I'm not telling on Apr 11, 2016 22:26:51 GMT
My mom left my dad for another man. Everyone knew my parents weren't happy. I think they should have been divorced years before they actually did. Meeting the other man was the catalyst for my mom to do what needed to be done and finally leave my dad. I was so indignant about it, I refused to have anything to do with him for 7 years. Eventually I accepted that he wasn't going away and I decided to accept him. What I have found is that he is a nice man. He treats my mother right. They are happy together. I just decided one Christmas that I could no longer carry around the anger associated with the cheating and so I told her I would accept him. Then I went through my own divorce and you know, I realized that my marriage was over long before I actually ended it. I met my now DH four months after I left my husband and 3 months after he actually left his wife. And you know people asked us if we thought we had gotten involved too soon and the truth was, our marriages were over long before we actually left. We had already grieved and moved past them. It really gave me a new understanding of my mother's actions. Her marriage to my dad was also long over before the new man ever came around. So you know, I have learned through my own experience not to judge. Affairs are never the right thing to do. I really, truly believe that. But I also know that often times marriages go on longer than they should. And just because paperwork hasn't been filed yet, does not necessarily mean that the marriage is not over. I choose to accept that good people sometimes make bad choices. And I also know that sometimes people live with regret too. I choose to forgive. I choose to accept the people I love for the flawed humans that they are. I think life is long and complicated and I can't give a blanket answer as to how I would feel or react to every situation, but I have had a friend in that situation, and we are still friends. Love these. In fact I often enjoy both of your posts. You rock! I'm a long-time pea, posting anon to protect the privacy of those involved. I was going to post a whole long story, but I don't have the energy to type it all out. So the short version is that my DH's first wife cheated on him, and had not one but two children by her lover. There was never a question of paternity, and my DH is not listed on the birth certs, but after the first she swore never to cheat again, they stayed together, and my DH treated the baby as his own. Understandably when the same thing happened again - same lover - that was the final straw for him and they separated, but he continued to help raise the children (real father wasn't very involved at all, I seem to recall he was married also). He later also helped out with her 2 kids by her second husband (different guy) and in fact when I met DH, he was renting a room in their house. They both worked night shifts and my DH worked normal office hours so he was the night time 'parent' to all 4 children. It was weird to me at first but it worked, and we're still all good friends. There are people in my DH's life that to this day, over 30 years later, don't know that the children born during that marriage are not his. That to me is the ultimate example of love and forgiveness, and one I hope I'll follow if anyone in my life is ever in a similar situation.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Apr 11, 2016 22:29:17 GMT
I believe trust and loyalty is the basis for friendship. I don't understand how someone could trust another person whom they know betrayed THE one person they VOWED to love and protect.
If someone is going to do that to a spouse, no telling what they would do to me down the line.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Apr 11, 2016 22:36:32 GMT
My mom left my dad for another man. Everyone knew my parents weren't happy. I think they should have been divorced years before they actually did. Meeting the other man was the catalyst for my mom to do what needed to be done and finally leave my dad. I was so indignant about it, I refused to have anything to do with him for 7 years. Eventually I accepted that he wasn't going away and I decided to accept him. What I have found is that he is a nice man. He treats my mother right. They are happy together. I just decided one Christmas that I could no longer carry around the anger associated with the cheating and so I told her I would accept him. Then I went through my own divorce and you know, I realized that my marriage was over long before I actually ended it. I met my now DH four months after I left my husband and 3 months after he actually left his wife. And you know people asked us if we thought we had gotten involved too soon and the truth was, our marriages were over long before we actually left. We had already grieved and moved past them. It really gave me a new understanding of my mother's actions. Her marriage to my dad was also long over before the new man ever came around. So you know, I have learned through my own experience not to judge. Affairs are never the right thing to do. I really, truly believe that. But I also know that often times marriages go on longer than they should. And just because paperwork hasn't been filed yet, does not necessarily mean that the marriage is not over. I choose to accept that good people sometimes make bad choices. And I also know that sometimes people live with regret too. I choose to forgive. I choose to accept the people I love for the flawed humans that they are. I think life is long and complicated and I can't give a blanket answer as to how I would feel or react to every situation, but I have had a friend in that situation, and we are still friends. Love these. In fact I often enjoy both of your posts. You rock! I'm a long-time pea, posting anon to protect the privacy of those involved. I was going to post a whole long story, but I don't have the energy to type it all out. So the short version is that my DH's first wife cheated on him, and had not one but two children by her lover. There was never a question of paternity, and my DH is not listed on the birth certs, but after the first she swore never to cheat again, they stayed together, and my DH treated the baby as his own. Understandably when the same thing happened again - same lover - that was the final straw for him and they separated, but he continued to help raise the children (real father wasn't very involved at all, I seem to recall he was married also). He later also helped out with her 2 kids by her second husband (different guy) and in fact when I met DH, he was renting a room in their house. They both worked night shifts and my DH worked normal office hours so he was the night time 'parent' to all 4 children. It was weird to me at first but it worked, and we're still all good friends. There are people in my DH's life that to this day, over 30 years later, don't know that the children born during that marriage are not his. That to me is the ultimate example of love and forgiveness, and one I hope I'll follow if anyone in my life is ever in a similar situation. My current DH was in a similar situation. Two of his three children are not biologically his because of a cheating ex wife. He forgave her the first time. And he accepted that child as his own. He then had a child with her who is his. When she came to him pregnant the third time he knew the child wasn't his as he was away caring for his grandmother with cancer. The biological father of that child wanted nothing to do with the little girl. So he divorced his wife but is the little girl's father. Seriously, if he can raise two children who aren't his I can find it in my heart to forgive someone who is truly sorry like my mother. My DH is a good man and a good father.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Apr 11, 2016 22:45:30 GMT
Why is the problem with the girlfriend/fiancé? Why is she the one you are worried about how you are going to treat? The husband is the one who broke marriage vows and cheated on his wife - I would think he should be the one the disgust is directed towards, and it should be more awkward having him around whether he has his fiancé there or not. I really hate it when the "other woman" gets all the blame, when the husband is the one who cheated on his vows. If cheating really bothers you (general you), you should have a harder time being around the husband/dad than his fiancé. I didn't say that I excuse the husband or am chummy with him. I have been friendly but not overly so when he has talked to me. My post came after they made a public Facebook post regarding their engagement (and I have also wondered about this when other Facebook friends have posted pics of them out with the girlfriend on social outings). I was curious how I would act if it was my friend who was "the other woman" and that is how I posed the question here. I also was wondering if, given their relationship status as being engaged, things may change in regards to their relationship being more "out there" at games and other school events. And if so, how that would play out with the wife, etc. I do have negative feelings about the man and his choices, although do agree that one choice does not mean someone is a bad person. That being said, I think in some ways, the other woman gets more negativity and judgement because on some level we expect that men may cheat and that being with another woman's husband is a betrayal of other women, if that makes sense.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Apr 11, 2016 23:03:53 GMT
Just putting it out there...
An affair is not just one bad choice. It is deliberate, continuous, self-centered behavior that totally disregards the family you have promised to cherish.
Even a one-night stand isn't just one bad choice. It is the cumulation on multiple bad choices.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Apr 11, 2016 23:09:36 GMT
Slippery slope time. For those of you that state you couldn't judge a friend for a character flaw, how far does that grace extend? Can they steal? Murder? Molest?
If you support a friend that sleeps with married men, can you look the other way if it is YOUR husband?
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Post by jeremysgirl on Apr 11, 2016 23:39:31 GMT
Slippery slope time. For those of you that state you couldn't judge a friend for a character flaw, how far does that grace extend? Can they steal? Murder? Molest? If you support a friend that sleeps with married men, can you look the other way if it is YOUR husband? If this was not directed at me, I apologize for my response. But I do judge and I judge harshly. My mother got 7 years of punishment from me over it. But what I said is I can understand and I can forgive when someone owns up to their mistakes. If it were my husband I don't know how long it would take me to forgive him. Maybe never. I'd like to think I couldn't walk around with that kind of all consuming anger. And my anger would be all consuming.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Apr 11, 2016 23:50:19 GMT
You know I did reread my initial post and it did sound like I don't judge. And that's not true. I do know right from wrong and I make sure I have the kind of people in my life that for the most part do know right from wrong. And I do stand up for what's right. So really I do judge. But I think I understand a lot more about marriage and life than I did when my mom left my dad. So I can understand.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Apr 12, 2016 0:15:28 GMT
Slippery slope time. For those of you that state you couldn't judge a friend for a character flaw, how far does that grace extend? Can they steal? Murder? Molest? If you support a friend that sleeps with married men, can you look the other way if it is YOUR husband? If this was not directed at me, I apologize for my response. But I do judge and I judge harshly. My mother got 7 years of punishment from me over it. But what I said is I can understand and I can forgive when someone owns up to their mistakes. If it were my husband I don't know how long it would take me to forgive him. Maybe never. I'd like to think I couldn't walk around with that kind of all consuming anger. And my anger would be all consuming. You have a really good point, here. It's all easy to sit behind my computer and say "I would never", but there is always an exception or a special circumstance.
My former BIL tried to me and my teenage son as his "alibi" while he made out with his (also married with history of cheating) girlfriend in the parking lot instead of being at home helping his puking wife take care of their puking 4 yr old and 6 mo baby. And has spent the last 2 years having a hissy-fit because she wouldn't let him just throw her to the curb and plug the new girl in, and blaming my sister because the court "took away everything he had". He'll never be done fighting and threatening court for every.little.piddly.thing. For that I have absolutely no use.
On the other hand, I have an online friend who's husband was having somewhat of a mid-life crisis, began a relationship, immediately hated himself for it and confessed to her & requested counseling. It's taken several years and a lot of hard work, but they've been able to rebuild. While I would probably feel somewhat awkward around him if I ever met him IRL, I do have respect for the fact that he took responsibility for his actions and has worked very, very hard to make things right.
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Post by canadianscrappergirl on Apr 12, 2016 2:45:32 GMT
Slippery slope time. For those of you that state you couldn't judge a friend for a character flaw, how far does that grace extend? Can they steal? Murder? Molest? If you support a friend that sleeps with married men, can you look the other way if it is YOUR husband? Um big difference between a friend having an affair and the murdering someone and molesting someone. Your comparison/ slippery slope analogy isn't even the same in my opinion.
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Post by pjaye on Apr 12, 2016 4:18:40 GMT
Slippery slope time. For those of you that state you couldn't judge a friend for a character flaw, how far does that grace extend? Can they steal? Murder? Molest? What a ridiculous attempt at an analogy. A character flaw/bad moral decision and a CRIME are two different things entirely. Sex is a biological act and when it is between two consenting adults (and I'm going to say it only once so I don't have to keep repeating it ...I'm only referring to consenting adults) it is not a crime. There is no law about not having sex with someone else when you are married, it's not a crime and you are not fined or jailed for it. Are you seriously comparing two people who meet at work and are attracted to each other and end up having sex, as being the the same as an adult who molests a child? Or a murderer? You need to get some perspective. They are not in the same category at all. As to actual "crimes" I will make my own decisions on a one to one basis, depending on the person and the crime. I've always had lots of gay friends and when sodomy was still a crime in Australia in some states through the 1980-1990s. I did not drop any of my friends for committing that "crime". I may not stop a friendship if someone was convicted of theft...it would depend on the person and the circumstances and I would make my own decision (separate to any legal decision) whether to continue a friendship or not. Child molestation would be an absolute friendship breaker for me, as would animal abuse. Not everything is black and white and not every "bad decision" can or should be lumped into the same pile. I have my own moral reasoning and my own standards and I will decide in each case what is a deal breaker or not in terms of a friendship. If you lump every bad decision your friends make in with murderers and child molesters...then you are going to be spending a lot of time home alone.
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on Apr 12, 2016 13:44:21 GMT
Slippery slope time. For those of you that state you couldn't judge a friend for a character flaw, how far does that grace extend? Can they steal? Murder? Molest? If you support a friend that sleeps with married men, can you look the other way if it is YOUR husband? If this was not directed at me, I apologize for my response. But I do judge and I judge harshly. My mother got 7 years of punishment from me over it. But what I said is I can understand and I can forgive when someone owns up to their mistakes. If it were my husband I don't know how long it would take me to forgive him. Maybe never. I'd like to think I couldn't walk around with that kind of all consuming anger. And my anger would be all consuming. All - consuming anger - that's what i thought too...and it turns out - it wasn't i think that each situation is unique and you really never know how you will react...until you are in the thick of it gina
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,036
Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Apr 12, 2016 16:35:46 GMT
According to the 10 Commandments (and the military) Adultery is indeed a crime. I've been sexually assaulted and cheated on, and TO ME they have been equally devastating impacts to my life. and the destruction heaped on the innocent children caught in all the mess borders on criminal emotional abuse in my opinion. As far as marriages being over long before the papers are filed, that's fine as long as BOTH parties in the marriage know it's over. I struggle with this issue a great deal given my circumstances and that my sister makes a habit of being "the other woman". She knows how I feel and we aren't near as close because of it. None of the guys have ever left their wives or stuck around though, so I haven't had to deal with a relationship...
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Apr 12, 2016 16:42:37 GMT
According to the 10 Commandments (and the military) Adultery is indeed a crime. I've been sexually assaulted and cheated on, and TO ME they have been equally devastating impacts to my life. and the destruction heaped on the innocent children caught in all the mess borders on criminal emotional abuse in my opinion. As far as marriages being over long before the papers are filed, that's fine as long as BOTH parties in the marriage know it's over. I struggle with this issue a great deal given my circumstances and that my sister makes a habit of being "the other woman". She knows how I feel and we aren't near as close because of it. None of the guys have ever left their wives or stuck around though, so I haven't had to deal with a relationship... It must be here, too, in some capacity (state, county?). There have been 2 cases of people being charged with it in our local area. One was a couple of deputies (both married) who had a little too much fun with a dispatcher at a training seminar. The other was a (married) teacher with a student.
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Post by jenis40 on Apr 12, 2016 17:29:34 GMT
Adultery is a crime in 16 states although rarely prosecuted, even more rarely since Lawrence v. Kansas. It ranges from a misdemeanor to a felony and punishment can be a fine up to 5 years in prison (varies by state). Even in the military, it is rarely prosecuted unless there are other, larger issues at play. The laws stem from the old days when there were many laws regarding sex on the books, i.e. fornication, sodomy, etc. Adultery laws had more to do with protecting men (imagine that!) from raising another man's child and possibly leaving their inheritance to a "stranger". Seriously! Now they are difficult to remove because what politician wants to be known as "pro-adultery".
As to the subject at hand, no I wouldn't shun someone because of an affair. If it's a close friend, I would offer what advice I could in an effort to help them stop making bad decisions. If it's someone I know casually, not my business. If they are an asshat to their (ex) spouse in ways beyond the affair, then I'm not going to want to know them better anyway.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 9:58:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2016 19:41:58 GMT
Slippery slope time. For those of you that state you couldn't judge a friend for a character flaw, how far does that grace extend? Can they steal? Murder? Molest? I feel like you always have to take things that little bit too far and make ridiculous connections that aren't there.
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Post by refugeepea on Apr 12, 2016 19:50:44 GMT
In some states there are alienation of affection laws. "Alienation of Affections The tort of alienation of affections allows someone to sue a third party for maliciously intervening or negligently intervening in a marriage to undermine and destroy the marriage. Alienation of affections suits are usually brought because of adultery but sexual misconduct is not the only activity that is found to destroy a marriage. The Utah Supreme Court has said the purpose of alienation of affections lawsuits is the protection of “the foundation of a marriage and give rise to the unique bonding that occurs in a successful marriage.” Those “whose malicious interventions have destroyed marital bonds have been held liable for alienation of affections.” link
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Apr 15, 2016 4:57:00 GMT
all I know, is that the older I become, the more I realize that it doesn't serve any purpose to be as black-and-white as some people seem to be like here.
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Post by *leslie* on Apr 16, 2016 4:25:21 GMT
I have two friends that have had affairs with married men. Both were single at the time.
Friend #1 married her affair partner and they've been married for 20 years and seem very happy. I think he has jealousy issues though. He didn't want her sleeping overnight when a bunch of us girls got together one time. She had to drive home late at night.
Friend #2 was more recent and she is a widow. She re-connected with a high school boyfriend on Facebook. Of course, he gave her the whole "it's a marriage in name only" or "we don't sex anymore" lines. Friends and I told her that was a bunch of bull and worked on her to stop. She finally ended it after a year.
I'm still friends with both.
Isn't the percentage really low for marriages that started as an affair? Something like the single digits. MY future ex SIL isn't with her original affair partner, you know the guy that was supposed to be her soul mate.
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