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Post by lucyg on Apr 13, 2016 17:36:23 GMT
Of course I will vote for Bernie Sanders if he is the nominee. But I support Hillary and hope/pray/trust she can beat whoever the Republicans put up. I am always shocked by Democrats and independent liberals who say they couldn't vote for Hillary ... when you look at the alternatives, it's just horrifying. Either President Trump or President Cruz = bad news for America and the world, and in.no.way. comparable to Hillary, even if you dislike her. My latest irritation with Bernie is that he's being annoyingly self-righteous about the Clintons in regards to the 1994 crime bill. He freakin' voted for that crime bill. Don't talk to me about Hillary and hypocrisy in the same sentence, unless you want to include Bernie in that discussion, too. The trouble with a lot of the bills that are presented is there are many different provisions or riders. In that particular bill, Bernie voted six times to eliminate or weaken the death penalty provisions and voted separately against new mandatory minimum sentencing. He was very supportive of the provisions that banned assault weapons and the Violence Against Women provisions of that bill. It is unfortunate that he did not have success of vetoing those provisions he was against, but he is on record for vetoing those provisions. Whereas Hillary was definitely for those provisions. I believe she referred to at-risk youth (read BLACK) as "super predators" and need to be "brought to heel." So no, no hypocrisy there. Also, the reason I will not vote for Hillary if she is the nominee is I do not see the difference between her or any of the Republican candidates. She may be running on the Democratic ticket, but she is more Republican than Democrat. I will, however, vote for as many Democratic/Progressive candidates as I can in hopes in 4 more years, we will have someone as Progressive as Bernie run again. Much of the black community supported the bill at that time, too. Times change and attitudes change with them. And while you may not see any difference between Hillary and the Republican candidates right now, I guarantee you'll feel the difference in Supreme Court decisions in the years to follow. It will be in the range of "overturning Roe v. Wade" difference, due to Supreme Court appointments. I shudder. If you're in a purple state, please please reconsider your stance should Hillary be the nominee.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,011
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Apr 13, 2016 17:40:59 GMT
Well for sure she won't be nominating any strict constructionists or fringe right jurists to the Supreme Court and that alone should be enough to make any liberal vote for her. Even if you can't see/acknowledge the difference between her and Ted Cruz, this is one that is patently obvious.
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Post by BeckyTech on Apr 13, 2016 17:54:59 GMT
I'm perfectly willing to pay a little more to help my fellow citizens. So that must mean you already donate regularly to charities which help your fellow citizens, right? I'm curious as to why you feel the need for Bernie to make those decisions for you. Or maybe you believe those charities you already support will no longer need to exist under a Bernie presidency? Just curious.
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Post by BeckyTech on Apr 13, 2016 18:01:26 GMT
It will be in the range of "overturning Roe v. Wade" difference That's silly and you know it. There aren't enough backwards Republicans in the U.S. to vote that way. Limited partial birth abortion, yes, but to suggest that abortions would be against the law altogether is ridiculous.
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Post by dulcemama on Apr 13, 2016 18:03:12 GMT
I'm perfectly willing to pay a little more to help my fellow citizens. So that must mean you already donate regularly to charities which help your fellow citizens, right? I'm curious as to why you feel the need for Bernie to make those decisions for you. Or maybe you believe those charities you already support will no longer need to exist under a Bernie presidency? Just curious. DH and I have a fairly modest income but yes, we donate when we can. But, charities don't prevent pointless, ongoing wars. And charities don't funnel my money to corporate welfare. And charities don't prevent unfair labor practices. I believe that government needs to address the needs and welfare of all of it's citizens and promote a healthy society for all. Plus I really believe that the most vulnerable among us should not have to be dependent on the whims of those more fortunate.
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loco coco
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,662
Jun 26, 2014 16:15:45 GMT
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Post by loco coco on Apr 13, 2016 18:23:03 GMT
Im a republican and never, ever thought I would say I would want Hillary to win over someone. Bernies tax plan scares me, we are young high middle class and we pay a ton in taxes already with no kids. If he raises our taxes that much it would hurt us.
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amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,403
Jun 27, 2014 12:39:18 GMT
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Post by amom23 on Apr 13, 2016 18:32:45 GMT
It will be in the range of "overturning Roe v. Wade" difference That's silly and you know it. There aren't enough backwards Republicans in the U.S. to vote that way. Limited partial birth abortion, yes, but to suggest that abortions would be against the law altogether is ridiculous. Have you been living under a rock? Have you not paid any attention to the anti abortion laws being passed in republican states? Pull your head out of your ass and wake up!
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Post by BeckyTech on Apr 13, 2016 19:23:34 GMT
That's how a lot of people donate. The problem is that taxes aren't on a "as you can" basis. But, charities don't prevent pointless, ongoing wars. What pointless ongoing war would that be? You don't think that we should be fighting ISIS? Those people who murder innocents? So what is the answer, do you think we should not have a military at all? Just invite ISIS on over to our shores and say "have at it?" Even Obama doesn't seem to feel that way, he felt it was necessary to put troops back in Iraq to fight ISIS over there. And charities don't funnel my money to corporate welfare. And charities don't prevent unfair labor practices. I believe that government needs to address the needs and welfare of all of it's citizens and promote a healthy society for all. There are always going to be inequities in this world. I guess I just feel different than Bernie voters in that I don't expect someone else, in the form of the government or anyone else, to make life "fair."
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Post by BeckyTech on Apr 13, 2016 19:29:16 GMT
Have you been living under a rock? Have you not paid any attention to the anti abortion laws being passed in republican states? Pull your head out of your ass and wake up! Abortion laws don't seem to be regularly covered in the political publications I peruse. Maybe you would be so kind as to educate me. Although I did read an interesting article a few weeks back that said abortion clinics were on the decline, in large part because abortions were on the decline. Also, even with donations, some still had to close. Considering the depth of feeling about the availability of abortion clinics I've seen on 2Peas, I thought that was interesting that they couldn't even get enough donations to stay open.
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Post by lucyg on Apr 13, 2016 21:26:53 GMT
It will be in the range of "overturning Roe v. Wade" difference That's silly and you know it. There aren't enough backwards Republicans in the U.S. to vote that way. Limited partial birth abortion, yes, but to suggest that abortions would be against the law altogether is ridiculous. It isn't the least bit silly, but that seems to be the standard Republican line on this topic. "It's settled law," they claim, all while demanding absolute purity on the subject from their candidates for office, and state after state imposing more and more hardships on abortion providers and services. If they can't do it in the courts, they're willing to do it in actual effect by making a legal abortion too difficult and expensive to obtain. The truth is, we are one Supreme Court justice (well, actually two at the moment, but you can see that the Senate is doing all it can to obstruct any change) away from Roe v. Wade being overturned. Regardless of the fact that the majority of voters in this country support abortion rights. <---note I did not say they love abortions and want everyone to have them, just that they support women's rights to access them.
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Post by refugeepea on Apr 13, 2016 21:34:58 GMT
That's silly and you know it. There aren't enough backwards Republicans in the U.S. to vote that way. Limited partial birth abortion, yes, but to suggest that abortions would be against the law altogether is ridiculous. I used to feel that way until my state passed laws relating to abortion that have no basis in science. They also cut all funding to Planned Parenthood. Sure abortions are legal, good luck finding a place and going through loopholes to get one done.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 30, 2024 14:15:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 21:42:40 GMT
Well for sure she won't be nominating any strict constructionists or fringe right jurists to the Supreme Court and that alone should be enough to make any liberal vote for her. Even if you can't see/acknowledge the difference between her and Ted Cruz, this is one that is patently obvious. Ahhh Sarah*H and Lucyg...I wish I had your faith in Hillary. I would love to see a woman as a president in my lifetime. But I just can't. It really isn't patently obvious to me or to many others. I feel she will change her stance on ANYTHING depending on who is paying her. I don't see her as giving two shits about abortion, and if it were to come to that, I feel she will go with the money. If that means nominating a SCJ who is hellbent on overturning Roe vs Wade, she will do it. That is just how much faith I have in her.
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Post by lucyg on Apr 13, 2016 23:04:16 GMT
Have you been living under a rock? Have you not paid any attention to the anti abortion laws being passed in republican states? Pull your head out of your ass and wake up! Abortion laws don't seem to be regularly covered in the political publications I peruse. Maybe you would be so kind as to educate me. Although I did read an interesting article a few weeks back that said abortion clinics were on the decline, in large part because abortions were on the decline. Also, even with donations, some still had to close. Considering the depth of feeling about the availability of abortion clinics I've seen on 2Peas, I thought that was interesting that they couldn't even get enough donations to stay open. Wow. I would love to read this article if you still have access. Please. Many red states have figured out they can't openly outlaw abortion, but they can effectively make it inaccessible by regulating it out of business. Check out Texas's draconian laws regulating women's health clinics ... I believe they're in front of the Supreme Court right now. Those may constitute the multitude of abortion clinics your article says are closing. All those women in West Texas who just lost access to much more than abortion services ... Utah's governor just signed a law requiring "pain medication" for fetuses in 20-week abortions. The trouble is, there is no such thing as pain medication for fetuses, and there's not even any sound evidence that 20-week fetuses can feel pain. Utah doctor calls governor for guidance on administering pain medication to fetuses. He does not respond.
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Apr 13, 2016 23:07:21 GMT
Interesting. With age, perhaps you realize there are no free lunches. For me, it's more about being able to vote FOR someone, instead of having to choose the lesser or two evils. It's nothing to do with "free lunches". We have better health care now than I ever have, we're making more money now than we ever have. We are willing to pay more into a system that will offer a higher quality of life for everyone, not just those who can afford it. It's a moral issue for us and Bernie continues to be the most trustworthy and moral candidate in the entire race (that last statement is just my opinion, but I'm over 30 and so is my DH).
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Post by lucyg on Apr 13, 2016 23:07:39 GMT
Well for sure she won't be nominating any strict constructionists or fringe right jurists to the Supreme Court and that alone should be enough to make any liberal vote for her. Even if you can't see/acknowledge the difference between her and Ted Cruz, this is one that is patently obvious. Ahhh Sarah*H and Lucyg...I wish I had your faith in Hillary. I would love to see a woman as a president in my lifetime. But I just can't. It really isn't patently obvious to me or to many others. I feel she will change her stance on ANYTHING depending on who is paying her. I don't see her as giving two shits about abortion, and if it were to come to that, I feel she will go with the money. If that means nominating a SCJ who is hellbent on overturning Roe vs Wade, she will do it. That is just how much faith I have in her. I am very sorry to hear that. Really. But it's your call.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 30, 2024 14:15:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 0:55:26 GMT
Interesting. With age, perhaps you realize there are no free lunches. For me, it's more about being able to vote FOR someone, instead of having to choose the lesser or two evils. It's nothing to do with "free lunches". We have better health care now than I ever have, we're making more money now than we ever have. We are willing to pay more into a system that will offer a higher quality of life for everyone, not just those who can afford it. It's a moral issue for us and Bernie continues to be the most trustworthy and moral candidate in the entire race (that last statement is just my opinion, but I'm over 30 and so is my DH). I agree with you. It is so rare that we get a candidate that is so trustworthy, and I cannot believe that so many are willing to go with the others who all are in competition with how immoral they can get. I am over 50, and I know a lot of other over 40 years of age who believe in Bernie as I do. It would be voting for the lesser of two evils if it ends up being between Clinton and trump or cruz. It doesn't have to be that way. Support Bernie if you don't want a Republican in the White House. He's for everyone, not just the 1%.
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Post by mollycoddle on Apr 14, 2016 1:15:08 GMT
For me, it's more about being able to vote FOR someone, instead of having to choose the lesser or two evils. It's nothing to do with "free lunches". We have better health care now than I ever have, we're making more money now than we ever have. We are willing to pay more into a system that will offer a higher quality of life for everyone, not just those who can afford it. It's a moral issue for us and Bernie continues to be the most trustworthy and moral candidate in the entire race (that last statement is just my opinion, but I'm over 30 and so is my DH). I agree with you. It is so rare that we get a candidate that is so trustworthy, and I cannot believe that so many are willing to go with the others who all are in competition with how immoral they can get. I am over 50, and I know a lot of other over 40 years of age who believe in Bernie as I do. It would be voting for the lesser of two evils if it ends up being between Clinton and trump or cruz. It doesn't have to be that way. Support Bernie if you don't want a Republican in the White House. He's for everyone, not just the 1%. See ,YOU think that Bernie is trustworthy. Not everyone agrees with you. To be perfectly frank, I think that he's full of hot air. And you probably think the same thing about Hillary. We all have our opinions.
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Post by sunraynnc on Apr 14, 2016 2:10:24 GMT
Because we know there is no Santa Claus...
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Post by missmiss on Apr 14, 2016 2:26:18 GMT
I agree with you. It is so rare that we get a candidate that is so trustworthy, and I cannot believe that so many are willing to go with the others who all are in competition with how immoral they can get. I am over 50, and I know a lot of other over 40 years of age who believe in Bernie as I do. It would be voting for the lesser of two evils if it ends up being between Clinton and trump or cruz. It doesn't have to be that way. Support Bernie if you don't want a Republican in the White House. He's for everyone, not just the 1%. See ,YOU think that Bernie is trustworthy. Not everyone agrees with you. To be perfectly frank, I think that he's full of hot air. And you probably think the same thing about Hillary. We all have our opinions. Did you know she tried to join the Marines but they turned her down HAHA. How did that work our for Ben Carson and all the crap he took? Why wasn't Hillary raked across the coals for that one? www.washingtonpost.com/g00//news/fact-checker/wp/2015/11/12/hillary-clintons-claim-that-she-tried-to-join-the-marines/What about the sniper fire in Bosnia? What was the news anchorman that was also raked across the coals for lying about being in a combat zone? Yeah why not Hillary? www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/mar/25/hillary-clinton/video-shows-tarmac-welcome-no-snipers/All her grandparents were immigrants as well right? Oops they weren't. Easy to confuse though I guess. www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/apr/16/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-flubs-familys-immigration-history-/They all lie or mislead the truth. It comes down to who do you like better. But do not try and play off that Hillary is a saint compared to Bernie. How many times has Bernie been investigated by the FBI? I do not feel Hillary is for the people. Plain and Simple. Why lie about the Marines? Why lie about being under sniper fire?
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Post by mollycoddle on Apr 14, 2016 5:27:07 GMT
See, the key word is "opinion." I do not believe that I ever said that she was a saint. Actually, I know that I never said that. I was talking about opinions, and yes, in MY opinion, Bernie is full of hot air. Obviously you disagree. Period. Full stop. I'm not sure why you went to the trouble of posting links, but thank you. And yes, I am aware of all of those reports. I just don't think that in the scope of her long life and many accomplishments, that they are important. You disagree. It all comes down to who you like better, you said. That was my point.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 30, 2024 14:15:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 11:57:05 GMT
I agree with you. It is so rare that we get a candidate that is so trustworthy, and I cannot believe that so many are willing to go with the others who all are in competition with how immoral they can get. I am over 50, and I know a lot of other over 40 years of age who believe in Bernie as I do. It would be voting for the lesser of two evils if it ends up being between Clinton and trump or cruz. It doesn't have to be that way. Support Bernie if you don't want a Republican in the White House. He's for everyone, not just the 1%. See ,YOU think that Bernie is trustworthy. Not everyone agrees with you. To be perfectly frank, I think that he's full of hot air. And you probably think the same thing about Hillary. We all have our opinions. Actually, I don't feel she is full of hot air. I believe Donald Trump is, but not Hillary. No, I feel she is very cool. Very concise, very calculating. Which actually makes me feel she is way more dangerous to this country than Donald is. She's been in the game of politics for quite some time, and every move she makes, it's to benefit HER. Only her. Not her constituents, certainly not her country. She will definitely sell out to the highest bidder. I hope she won't get that far, but I have a very bad feeling that Arizona was just the tip of the iceberg compared to what she and the DNC have up their sleeves going forward. This may be only my opinion, but a lot of others share it as well. And facts have proven quite a bit of them. So far, there has been no facts proving that Bernie is full of hot air, just a bunch of speculation. We don't know yet, if he is in fact, full of hot air. But Hillary has proven she is willing to sell out. Time and time again.
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Post by anxiousmom on Apr 14, 2016 12:18:59 GMT
Have you been living under a rock? Have you not paid any attention to the anti abortion laws being passed in republican states? Pull your head out of your ass and wake up! Abortion laws don't seem to be regularly covered in the political publications I peruse. Maybe you would be so kind as to educate me. Although I did read an interesting article a few weeks back that said abortion clinics were on the decline, in large part because abortions were on the decline. Also, even with donations, some still had to close. Considering the depth of feeling about the availability of abortion clinics I've seen on 2Peas, I thought that was interesting that they couldn't even get enough donations to stay open. Florida's governor just passes a new law that limits funding-from what I understand it is similar in some ways to the laws passed in Texas, and in some ways takes them even further. Florida and other states passing these laws can't change Roe v. Wade, so they pass state laws that are designed to circumvent the federal law. I think Alabama tried something similar but it was struck down by their state courts recently. This kind of thing is happening all over the south-unfortunately.
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Post by mollycoddle on Apr 14, 2016 12:56:28 GMT
See ,YOU think that Bernie is trustworthy. Not everyone agrees with you. To be perfectly frank, I think that he's full of hot air. And you probably think the same thing about Hillary. We all have our opinions. Actually, I don't feel she is full of hot air. I believe Donald Trump is, but not Hillary. No, I feel she is very cool. Very concise, very calculating. Which actually makes me feel she is way more dangerous to this country than Donald is. She's been in the game of politics for quite some time, and every move she makes, it's to benefit HER. Only her. Not her constituents, certainly not her country. She will definitely sell out to the highest bidder. I hope she won't get that far, but I have a very bad feeling that Arizona was just the tip of the iceberg compared to what she and the DNC have up their sleeves going forward. This may be only my opinion, but a lot of others share it as well. And facts have proven quite a bit of them. So far, there has been no facts proving that Bernie is full of hot air, just a bunch of speculation. We don't know yet, if he is in fact, full of hot air. But Hillary has proven she is willing to sell out. Time and time again.
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Post by mollycoddle on Apr 14, 2016 12:59:21 GMT
Actually, I don't feel she is full of hot air. I believe Donald Trump is, but not Hillary. No, I feel she is very cool. Very concise, very calculating. Which actually makes me feel she is way more dangerous to this country than Donald is. She's been in the game of politics for quite some time, and every move she makes, it's to benefit HER. Only her. Not her constituents, certainly not her country. She will definitely sell out to the highest bidder. I hope she won't get that far, but I have a very bad feeling that Arizona was just the tip of the iceberg compared to what she and the DNC have up their sleeves going forward. This may be only my opinion, but a lot of others share it as well. And facts have proven quite a bit of them. So far, there has been no facts proving that Bernie is full of hot air, just a bunch of speculation. We don't know yet, if he is in fact, full of hot air. But Hillary has proven she is willing to sell out. Time and time again. I'm not making myself clear, I can see. What I wrote was my opinion. I don't expect you to agree with me. You have a negative opinion of Hillary, and both of our opinions can peacefully coexist. Kumbaya and all that.
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Post by missmiss on Apr 14, 2016 13:04:43 GMT
See, the key word is "opinion." I do not believe that I ever said that she was a saint. Actually, I know that I never said that. I was talking about opinions, and yes, in MY opinion, Bernie is full of hot air. Obviously you disagree. Period. Full stop. I'm not sure why you went to the trouble of posting links, but thank you. And yes, I am aware of all of those reports. I just don't think that in the scope of her long life and many accomplishments, that they are important. You disagree. It all comes down to who you like better, you said. That was my point. I post links to back up my statements. What does full of hot air mean to you? What do you think about candidates that flip flop their views? Would that be they have changed their view because they have seen the light or does it mean they just want the votes?
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Post by dulcemama on Apr 14, 2016 13:34:29 GMT
That's how a lot of people donate. The problem is that taxes aren't on a "as you can" basis. But, charities don't prevent pointless, ongoing wars. What pointless ongoing war would that be? You don't think that we should be fighting ISIS? Those people who murder innocents? So what is the answer, do you think we should not have a military at all? Just invite ISIS on over to our shores and say "have at it?" Even Obama doesn't seem to feel that way, he felt it was necessary to put troops back in Iraq to fight ISIS over there. And charities don't funnel my money to corporate welfare. And charities don't prevent unfair labor practices. I believe that government needs to address the needs and welfare of all of it's citizens and promote a healthy society for all. There are always going to be inequities in this world. I guess I just feel different than Bernie voters in that I don't expect someone else, in the form of the government or anyone else, to make life "fair." If my taxes increased, I would make it work with my budget. But let's not overlook the fact that the people who benifit most from our tax money and would barely feel an increase pay little to none. That's the real problem. Yes, of course we need to deal with ISIL but I firmly believe that they would not have the power they have now if we had not gone charging into Iraq after 9/11. Our insistence on having our fingers in every pie and "my way or the highway" approach to world problems has made the world less safe, not more safe. I do not believe that it's government's job to insure that life is fair either. I do however believe that it is government's job to make sure it is not actively promoting inequality and to prevent it's most vulnerable citizens from being taken advantage of by the more powerful among us. It is government's job to promote the general welfare.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 14, 2016 14:40:39 GMT
Nice but can he force all this to happen ?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 14, 2016 14:56:20 GMT
That's silly and you know it. There aren't enough backwards Republicans in the U.S. to vote that way. Limited partial birth abortion, yes, but to suggest that abortions would be against the law altogether is ridiculous. Have you been living under a rock? Have you not paid any attention to the anti abortion laws being passed in republican states? Pull your head out of your ass and wake up! Amom is right. Kasich has already done it under the guise (hidden) as budget issues because he couldn't get the bill to pass as law.
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Post by Merge on Apr 14, 2016 15:21:33 GMT
Nice but can he force all this to happen ? Can any candidate force anything to happen?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 14, 2016 15:28:13 GMT
Nice but can he force all this to happen ? Can any candidate force anything to happen? Well, given how Congress/Senate pretty much dug their feet in and refused to work with the sitting president--more so than an U other in history...probably no.
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