|
Post by missmiss on Apr 14, 2016 15:31:01 GMT
Nice but can he force all this to happen ? Can any candidate force anything to happen? When it comes to war or peace missions(lol) it sure does seem like they can.
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Apr 14, 2016 15:51:57 GMT
See, the key word is "opinion." I do not believe that I ever said that she was a saint. Actually, I know that I never said that. I was talking about opinions, and yes, in MY opinion, Bernie is full of hot air. Obviously you disagree. Period. Full stop. I'm not sure why you went to the trouble of posting links, but thank you. And yes, I am aware of all of those reports. I just don't think that in the scope of her long life and many accomplishments, that they are important. You disagree. It all comes down to who you like better, you said. That was my point. I post links to back up my statements. What does full of hot air mean to you? What do you think about candidates that flip flop their views? Would that be they have changed their view because they have seen the light or does it mean they just want the votes? Is this some vain attempt to change my mind? Not happening. What do I think of candidates that flip flop their views? I think that they have learned and evolved. I've changed my mind on issues, so I understand when other people do. As for what "full of hot air" means, it means that I do not think that his plans are realistic or doable. Again, that is my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
|
|
likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,879
Aug 16, 2014 17:52:53 GMT
|
Post by likescarrots on Apr 14, 2016 16:10:51 GMT
I'm an over 30 voter and my choice is bernie sanders. My husband as well. My mother and mother in law are both in their 60s and they are also life long democrats who support bernie. I do not identify as a Democrat so i have no problem not voting for the Democrat candidate if they do not align with my political beliefs.
As a young person i voted democrat as the 'lesser of evils' though even then i did not generally align with their policies, but as i get older i feel frustrated and taken advantage of. I watched Hillary Clinton vote to send my friends to war and return home physically and mentally damaged, and i do not believe that she is dumb enough to have bought into the WMD argument. In my opinion, she uses human lives to promote policies and her own political legacy, and i just don't think i can give the democrats my support anymore, when they are clearly pushing for her as their candidate.
|
|
|
Post by BeckyTech on Apr 14, 2016 16:21:06 GMT
Regardless of the fact that the majority of voters in this country support abortion rights. <---note I did not say they love abortions and want everyone to have them, just that they support women's rights to access them. I know that and that is why I think actually overturning Roe v. Wade won't happen.
|
|
|
Post by BeckyTech on Apr 14, 2016 16:28:47 GMT
Wow. I would love to read this article if you still have access. Please. Certainly, I found it fascinating reading. I had no idea that the procedure was not taught in medical school, for instance. Bloomberg Business articleYes, some of it does come from restrictions, but it would appear that some of it is just plain business: not enough demand to support the cost of staying open.
|
|
|
Post by lucyg on Apr 14, 2016 16:40:51 GMT
Wow. I would love to read this article if you still have access. Please. Certainly, I found it fascinating reading. I had no idea that the procedure was not taught in medical school, for instance. Bloomberg Business articleYes, some of it does come from restrictions, but it would appear that some of it is just plain business: not enough demand to support the cost of staying open. Thank you. I'll read the whole thing later on, but here is the very first line of the article, just as a reminder what a huge force Republican legislation has become: ETA haven't read it yet, but wanted to add that abortion used to be taught in OB/GYN rotations, before it became such a political hot potato. Don't know what they do now.
|
|
|
Post by missmiss on Apr 14, 2016 16:59:15 GMT
I post links to back up my statements. What does full of hot air mean to you? What do you think about candidates that flip flop their views? Would that be they have changed their view because they have seen the light or does it mean they just want the votes? Is this some vain attempt to change my mind? Not happening. What do I think of candidates that flip flop their views? I think that they have learned and evolved. I've changed my mind on issues, so I understand when other people do. As for what "full of hot air" means, it means that I do not think that his plans are realistic or doable. Again, that is my opinion. Your mileage may vary. Nope no vain attempt. I just explained myself why I posted links when you stated you weren't sure why I went through the trouble of posting links. I know this board and pretty much all of the time unless you can back up your statements people throw them out as false. Now for flip flopping and people changing their minds on issues. No Driver's Licenses for illegal immigrants 2008, 2016 I guess she learned she needed the Hispanic vote so April 2015 she now supports it. 2002 she was against ethanol yet in 2015 I guess she evolved to supporting it and earned the support of the Iowa Governor. There is the NAFTA and then the TPP which she both supported and even called the TPP the "gold standard" then she evolved to Bernie's position against it. The list goes on. That is full of hot air. But l know I won't change your mind. Yes people evolve but it seems to me like she is saying what she wants to get the votes. Kind of how Bernie is being accused of with the young voters and all of that "free stuff" that people don't want to work for.
|
|
~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
|
Post by ~Lauren~ on Apr 14, 2016 16:59:41 GMT
I have no problem with that. Despite what people say about how Planned Parenthood provides health services, the fact is they are primarily known as a provider of abortions.
As far as hoops to jump through to obtain an abortion, I have no problem with that either. Despite what liberals feel, an abortion terminates a life. Society has deemed that acceptable and I can live with that, but I have no problem with regulations that make it more difficult than going down to McDonalds and buying a hamburger.
I understand that the law has made abortions legal. However, that does not mean that they must or should be paid for by our tax dollars. In fact, I firmly believe that any "life choice" should not forcibly be funded by either the taxpayer or private entities, whether its abortion, paid maternity leave etc. A right to do something does not translate to an obligation on others to pay for the exercise of that right.
Abortion is not anywhere near the top of my list of issues but I'm tired of working my ass off only to be told that my tax dollars must provide services to make sexual activity easier and consequence free. Yes, it's "your" body and you have a right to be in control of it. But with that comes the responsibility (financial and otherwise) for that body and your choices.
|
|
~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
|
Post by ~Lauren~ on Apr 14, 2016 17:09:03 GMT
I'm curious KrazyKat, I know you would never vote for a Republican so do you just plan on sitting out the election if Sanders is the nominee?
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 30, 2024 14:15:55 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 17:25:27 GMT
I didn't read the entire thread...mostly just page 1.
But I wanted to say that I hope Democrats will go to the polls and vote for the Democratic nominee in November.
There is a Supreme Court judge placement at stake in this election (thanks to Republicans in the Senate). I'm not in to Bernie but you're damn right I will be at my polling place to cast my ballot for him. I feel like this seat on the bench is incredibly important and I don't want anyone but a Democrat to have that power right now.
|
|
|
Post by BeckyTech on Apr 14, 2016 17:32:15 GMT
Im a republican and never, ever thought I would say I would want Hillary to win over someone. Bernies tax plan scares me, we are young high middle class and we pay a ton in taxes already with no kids. If he raises our taxes that much it would hurt us. I'm not high middle class but I certainly don't believe in income redistribution. We have social safety nets. The number of people who claim altruistic ... well, never mind. I never thought I'd rather see Hillary over someone else either. What a rotten year to be selecting a president, eh?
|
|
|
Post by BeckyTech on Apr 14, 2016 17:35:39 GMT
A right to do something does not translate to an obligation on others to pay for the exercise of that right. 10000x yes to that.
|
|
~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
|
Post by ~Lauren~ on Apr 14, 2016 17:48:08 GMT
A right to do something does not translate to an obligation on others to pay for the exercise of that right. 10000x yes to that. This is my biggest problem with the Democrat platform. The idea that everyone is entitled to have things paid for by others is the reason I will never vote for a Democrat.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 30, 2024 14:15:55 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 17:57:26 GMT
She's flawed, I'm flawed
#ImWithHer
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 30, 2024 14:15:55 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 18:14:33 GMT
This is my biggest problem with the Democrat platform. The idea that everyone is entitled to have things paid for by others is the reason I will never vote for a Democrat. And the reason I will never vote for a Republican is because in their little world they believe everyone is born on the same playing field and if they just work hard good things will happen. If only it was that easy.
|
|
~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
|
Post by ~Lauren~ on Apr 14, 2016 18:28:48 GMT
Sorry, but in the real world life just isn't "fair" and you can't legislate fairness. It has never worked in any society that tried to do so. Such an attitude also belittles the very real efforts of those who have managed to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and make their way in the world.
Hard work may not guarantee a great life but it certainly ups the probabilities for success. And the whole concept of "free" takes away people's motivation and incentive to succeed.
|
|
|
Post by ntsf on Apr 14, 2016 19:16:04 GMT
the social safety net is way underfunded...when my adult disabled child gets ssdi....in the process now..the amount provided is not enough to rent a shared room in a apt.. let alone utilities, food, and anything else. there is very limited low income housing..if I couldn't supplement from my savings, I don't think my child will be able to eat. not right.
|
|
|
Post by missmiss on Apr 14, 2016 19:17:30 GMT
Sorry, but in the real world life just isn't "fair" and you can't legislate fairness. It has never worked in any society that tried to do so. Such an attitude also belittles the very real efforts of those who have managed to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and make their way in the world. Hard work may not guarantee a great life but it certainly ups the probabilities for success. And the whole concept of "free" takes away people's motivation and incentive to succeed. If people can pull themselves up by their bootstraps and make their way in the world that doesn't mean changing social economic classes. All that means is working more hours and making enough money to survive. Try talking to a student in a Title 1 school about working hard. A majority of them are watching their parents work hard to barely get food on the table while the student cooks and cleans for the household. Try talking to the students out near the fields about working hard. They are picking crops before and after school to help their family put food on the table. You are correct life isn't fair but like it was said before just in a different way working hard does not equal success in the social economic class scale. Capitalism doesn't care about those people. It cares about the almighty profit. www.washingtonmonthly.com/republic3-0/2015/07/the_myth_of_mobility056815.php
|
|
~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
|
Post by ~Lauren~ on Apr 14, 2016 19:20:31 GMT
Capitalism works better than any other social structure. History has proven that. People just can't seem to give up the pipe-dream promised by socialism despite the fact that it doesn't work. Promising people something-for-nothing has never produced a motivated populace or an uncorrupt government. If it did, you wouldn't have generation after generation of welfare families.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 30, 2024 14:15:55 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 19:22:03 GMT
I post links to back up my statements. What does full of hot air mean to you? What do you think about candidates that flip flop their views? Would that be they have changed their view because they have seen the light or does it mean they just want the votes? I read your links and my first thought was so what. So she may or may not have "embellished" her history. Name a politician who hasn't. At some point the American People started to demand our politicians prove "they're just like us" . Because of that we get this ridiculousness of politicians trying to prove they're just like us. That have the same "history " as the masses. They understand. This morning on CBS This Morning they had a video of Ted Cruz with his wife and daughters. I had the TV on mute but I guess Ted was asking his kids questions and him and his wife were playing doting parents at I assume what they considered cute answers. Here is an example of Cruz trying to show potential voters that he is just like them with his wife and kids. How stupid. Actually dragging young kids out on display in a campaign like this is to me a form of child abuse. I look at dragging out the families and going on about your history as nothing but distractions. Yes it's nice the candidates have what appears to be loving families and yes history is somewhat important. However what is important to me as a voter is if the candidate has a vision of this country that I agree with, their experience, and what I see as their ability to run this country. I don't have to like the candidate I vote for I just need to believe in their ability to do the job I'm electing them for. And to be clear when I talk about experience I'm talking about 8 years as First Lady, 8 years as US Senator, and 4 years as Secretary of State. Not did she or didn't she try and join the marines. Or are all of her grandparents immigrants. To me that is why your list of links just gets a "so what". I mean to be honest it's the American People who are demanding politicians "embellish" their history so they can be seen as being "just one of us". Silly distraction.
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Apr 14, 2016 19:22:34 GMT
Is this some vain attempt to change my mind? Not happening. What do I think of candidates that flip flop their views? I think that they have learned and evolved. I've changed my mind on issues, so I understand when other people do. As for what "full of hot air" means, it means that I do not think that his plans are realistic or doable. Again, that is my opinion. Your mileage may vary. Nope no vain attempt. I just explained myself why I posted links when you stated you weren't sure why I went through the trouble of posting links. I know this board and pretty much all of the time unless you can back up your statements people throw them out as false. Now for flip flopping and people changing their minds on issues. No Driver's Licenses for illegal immigrants 2008, 2016 I guess she learned she needed the Hispanic vote so April 2015 she now supports it. 2002 she was against ethanol yet in 2015 I guess she evolved to supporting it and earned the support of the Iowa Governor. There is the NAFTA and then the TPP which she both supported and even called the TPP the "gold standard" then she evolved to Bernie's position against it. The list goes on. That is full of hot air. But l know I won't change your mind. Yes people evolve but it seems to me like she is saying what she wants to get the votes. Kind of how Bernie is being accused of with the young voters and all of that "free stuff" that people don't want to work for. Yes, there are accusations on both sides. I don't think that the democratic side is any uglier than it was in 08. Again, my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by refugeepea on Apr 14, 2016 19:28:59 GMT
the social safety net is way underfunded I can guarantee there is going to be at least one pea on this thread who is going to bitch about it being your kid and your problem now that they are an adult. There will probably be some snide comment about them being a "special snowflake". A huge problem is there aren't even laws in place *nationwide* for people with children with disabilities. My husband is a federal employee and his insurance does not have to cover therapy (they don't have to adhere to state laws), Obamacare does not have to cover therapy, the state law only says insurance has to cover ages 2-9. So now, I'm trying to get my kid on a Medicaid waiver and calling every time he has an incident so hopefully he can move up the list faster. So what happens when they age out of the school system? They become a "burden" on the taxpayers.
|
|
~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
|
Post by ~Lauren~ on Apr 14, 2016 19:37:27 GMT
I just can't get behind the idea you espouse here: ie, that inappropriate behavior is OK because other people have acted inappropriately.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 30, 2024 14:15:55 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 19:51:57 GMT
I just can't get behind the idea you espouse here: ie, that inappropriate behavior is OK because other people have acted inappropriately. Well when the masses start condemning this form of behavior from all candidates/politicians to the the degree they do with Hillary then I will join in with the condemning. Until then it's just applying a double standard against Hillary. In other words I just can't get behind the idea of giving some a pass for their behavior while nailing others to the wall for the same type of behavior.
|
|
|
Post by missmiss on Apr 14, 2016 19:59:50 GMT
I just can't get behind the idea you espouse here: ie, that inappropriate behavior is OK because other people have acted inappropriately. Lauren I actually agree with you. But I think where she is coming from is they all do it. We still need to elect a president from the group of people that are there. Even if all of them have embellished, lied, or cheated to get ahead we have to vote on one of them or write a name in. I wish one president cycle we would say screw all of you let's not vote due to the system being too screwed up. Or be like Iceland and send a ton of cheats and corrupt businessmen to jail. As well as stand up to the people in charge when their name comes up on the Panama Papers that got leaked.
|
|
~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
|
Post by ~Lauren~ on Apr 14, 2016 20:18:17 GMT
I understand what you're saying Missmiss and I do understand the practicalities.
I can understand and get behind the idea of "I don't like what my candidate is doing but imo she's still the best of the bunch." I just have a hard time with comments like "well she's not the only one" or "they all do it" as an excuse.
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 14, 2016 20:21:15 GMT
Sorry, but in the real world life just isn't "fair" and you can't legislate fairness. It has never worked in any society that tried to do so. Such an attitude also belittles the very real efforts of those who have managed to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and make their way in the world. Hard work may not guarantee a great life but it certainly ups the probabilities for success. And the whole concept of "free" takes away people's motivation and incentive to succeed. Unless you have powers that be refusing to do their jobs and stalling any progress forward. Or politicians going behind the backs of the voters because they cannot get things to pass on their own merit, Or when the powerful lobbyists make it darn near impossible for many things to be unfair or lopsided for some but not others. I don't believe in a free ride either, but to think that taking away assistance for those who really really need it to survive will make it all better is just wrong. People used to help people. Now it's politicians help big companies with votes, tax breaks, etc. for their own personal benefit.
|
|
~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
|
Post by ~Lauren~ on Apr 14, 2016 20:42:44 GMT
While we agree in principal, I think we have very different beliefs about who "those who really need it" are.
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 14, 2016 21:44:28 GMT
While we agree in principal, I think we have very different beliefs about who "those who really need it" are. We actually really probably don't differ as to who truly needs it--we most likely disagree as to who can make the right thing work for those who do.
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 14, 2016 22:06:52 GMT
I completely disagree with this generality. I'll be 56 at the end of this month. I'm a huge Bernie supporter as you all know. My husband is 50 and he is too. I know several adults my age who are. The person we don't trust is Hillary. She has lied over and over and over again. I can't trust a thing she says anymore because she will say anything to get elected. She is a huge disappoint to me. I had high hopes for voting for her when all of this began when she announced her candidacy. But the more I read about and saw her the more I realized what a liar and how untrustworthy she is. It goes beyond how all candidates lie. She's taken money from Monsanto and for me that is HUGE. I will not vote for her because I cannot do that on moral grounds. Not even if she wins the democratic ticket. Before she did that I could, but not now. I will vote, but it will be for an independent probably someone for the Green party on election day if Hillary wins the democratic ticket. I'm going to a dinner get together on Sunday for Bernie supporters in my area. I'll let you know how many people there are my age or if I'm the only one amongst a ton of young people. Although that really will prove nothing. It's only one dinner at a person's house. Debbie in MD. You might want to check your facts in regards to Monsanto/Hilary. Within the last month the rumors in which you base your "morals" are unfounded. www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-sat-monsanto-board/If reading tires you, skip to the end of the article.
|
|