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Post by Linda on Apr 15, 2016 14:48:00 GMT
It's legal in Florida as well - every year when we go to Meet the Teacher night at the elementary school, one of the forms we sign is whether or not we permit our child to be punished with corporal punishment if needed. We always select NO. It's legal only in about half the counties-not all of them. Surprisingly not mine, but around me they do. correct - it tends to be legal in the more rural counties not the urban ones - we lived in your county when my oldest was young and we're a county north of you now where it is legal I'm not quite sure what that says about rural Florida...I tend to think it plays into the backwoods, redneck stereotypes myself but I'm not a local
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Post by scrapmaven on Apr 15, 2016 15:04:34 GMT
The mother said she was afraid of going back to jail. So, she signed the form. If you sign such a form, using your child as a shield then don't make a federal stink about it in the media. The mother shouldn't have signed the form. I blame the mother, as well. Sounds like this child is acting out, because his life is so chaotic. Perhaps he needs some professional therapy to help him deal w/his issues over having a mom who goes to jail and abandons him. Clearly his environment is unstable. Who is there full-time to show him consistency and appropriate social actions if his own mother spends time in jail? I do understand that she might be in need of support and help herself, but imho she threw her son under the bus and then cried foul.
FWIw-I'm completely against corporal punishment and was appalled by the video.
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Post by anxiousmom on Apr 15, 2016 15:12:18 GMT
It's legal only in about half the counties-not all of them. Surprisingly not mine, but around me they do. correct - it tends to be legal in the more rural counties not the urban ones - we lived in your county when my oldest was young and we're a county north of you now where it is legal I'm not quite sure what that says about rural Florida...I tend to think it plays into the backwoods, redneck stereotypes myself but I'm not a local I'm not sure that is it entirely-more like (at least what I think) it is because the populations tend to be more old fashioned in their views on a number of social mores-not just this one. If anything, the true rednecks that I know are even more likely to have objections to other people telling them how to raise their children.
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Post by annabella on Apr 15, 2016 15:16:39 GMT
The mother said she was afraid of going back to jail. So, she signed the form. If you sign such a form, using your child as a shield then don't make a federal stink about it in the media. The mother shouldn't have signed the form. I blame the mother, as well. Sounds like this child is acting out, because his life is so chaotic. Perhaps he needs some professional therapy to help him deal w/his issues over having a mom who goes to jail and abandons him. Clearly his environment is unstable. Who is there full-time to show him consistency and appropriate social actions if his own mother spends time in jail? I do understand that she might be in need of support and help herself, but imho she threw her son under the bus and then cried foul. FWIw-I'm completely against corporal punishment and was appalled by the video. This was my thought exactly. While I was shocked corporal punishment happens in public schools in 2016, the video showed that the boy was just going to get ONE swat by a wooden paddle which I doubt would hurt. The boy was overly dramatic and did not fit the actual punishment he was going to get. After hearing what his crimes were and that his mother went to jail, well the family is a hot mess and he needs some discipline. No sympathy from me. If he was really sick she could have proved it and avoided jail.
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Post by Karen-in-Indiana on Apr 15, 2016 15:33:32 GMT
There is a difference between paddling and abuse. I do not agree when it turns abusive. I grew up in the 70-80's. I was never paddled because I was afraid of it. Therefore, I behaved. My parents spanked me when I acted up at home. It made me behave also. Do I consider myself abused? No. Am I a bully and abusive to my own children? No. Do they know that they will get the paddle if the misbehave? Yes. Do my kids have problem behaviors or menaces to society? NO! It does not always lead to a cycle of abuse. I actually have rarely laid a hand on my kids for punishment. Can't even remember the last time I had to. They are good, respectful, intelligent young adults now. I believe that parents should be the one to make kids respectful and obedient. In today's world, that just doesn't happen anymore. So I believe the school's should be able to paddle. If they don't make the kids mind, who will? The police, that's who.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 15:36:12 GMT
I believe that parents should be the one to make kids respectful and obedient. In today's world, that just doesn't happen anymore. So I believe the school's should be able to paddle. If they don't make the kids mind, who will? The police, that's who. I know lots and lots of respectful and obedient children and NOT ONE of them is that way because their parents hit them. There are better solutions.
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grinningcat
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Post by grinningcat on Apr 15, 2016 15:37:33 GMT
I believe that parents should be the one to make kids respectful and obedient. In today's world, that just doesn't happen anymore. So I believe the school's should be able to paddle. If they don't make the kids mind, who will? The police, that's who. I know lots and lots of respectful and obedient children and NOT ONE of them is that way because their parents hit them. There are better solutions. This. There are always better choices than physically attacking someone. Always.
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grinningcat
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Post by grinningcat on Apr 15, 2016 15:40:45 GMT
There is a difference between paddling and abuse. I do not agree when it turns abusive. I grew up in the 70-80's. I was never paddled because I was afraid of it. Therefore, I behaved. My parents spanked me when I acted up at home. It made me behave also. Do I consider myself abused? No. Am I a bully and abusive to my own children? No. Do they know that they will get the paddle if the misbehave? Yes. Do my kids have problem behaviors or menaces to society? NO! It does not always lead to a cycle of abuse. I actually have rarely laid a hand on my kids for punishment. Can't even remember the last time I had to. They are good, respectful, intelligent young adults now. I believe that parents should be the one to make kids respectful and obedient. In today's world, that just doesn't happen anymore. So I believe the school's should be able to paddle. If they don't make the kids mind, who will? The police, that's who. I grew up in the 70s and 80s as well, and I find the thought of using corporal punishment to be a cop out and taking the easy road. Surely there were better ways to discipline than to threaten abuse. And yes, I do think it's abuse. Sorry, how could I see it any other way? Basically it says "If you don't behave the way I want you to, I'm going to hit you until you do things my way" how is that effective? That doesn't teach respect, that teaches fear. And I'm not really keen on fearing people I'm supposed to love or respect.
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pudgygroundhog
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 15, 2016 15:43:25 GMT
Hey, kids, we don't allow bullying here. Unless we think that we, the adults, need to hit you to get you to comply. Then it's ok, but it's not really bullying because it's adults doing it to children, so it's somehow different. But don't ever think of hitting someone yourself because that's wrong! And it will just get you hit by us. Sure. Makes sense. Sounds logical. ITA! I have a hard time believing this is the one scenario where it's okay to strike somebody. If my husband hit me during an argument, is that okay because it might teach me to be more respectful? If my co-worker hit me is it teaching me a valuable lesson? I am empathetic to teachers who have little to no discipline options that make an impact on a kid, but I still don't think corporal punishment is the answer. Not only do I disagree with it, but I don't think it's effective. If a kid is at a point where nothing else is working, there are deeper issues and corporal punishment isn't likely to make a bit of difference.
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Post by red88 on Apr 15, 2016 15:52:05 GMT
I couldn't watch the whole video, it made my stomach turn. Let me understand, this child is 5! 5 years old! I am sickened that this little boys life is in chaos & this is the "human solution" because his "mother" (using that term loosely) doesn't want to go back to jail, because SHE can't get her child to school. FUCK HER & FUCK those other two women for what they did. I do not believe in physical punishment, raised 4 kids (not all roses & daisies either) & never had to hit any of them. On the other hand, I grew up with a lot of physical abuse that was considered in the day (70's & 80's) to be normal. It's not. Never will be.
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Post by Linda on Apr 15, 2016 15:52:58 GMT
correct - it tends to be legal in the more rural counties not the urban ones - we lived in your county when my oldest was young and we're a county north of you now where it is legal I'm not quite sure what that says about rural Florida...I tend to think it plays into the backwoods, redneck stereotypes myself but I'm not a local I'm not sure that is it entirely-more like (at least what I think) it is because the populations tend to be more old fashioned in their views on a number of social mores-not just this one. If anything, the true rednecks that I know are even more likely to have objections to other people telling them how to raise their children. Good point about folks not wanting other people to tell them how to raise their children. I do think that the stereotypes tend to be a bit different than the reality - though. The folks around here tend to be good folks - down to earth, tell it how it is sorts...at least the ones I know are.
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Apr 15, 2016 16:01:00 GMT
Yeah... hitting a kid to make them behave is a great punishment. BULLSHIT. All hitting a kid does is teach them that violence is okay if you want to get your way. Yup, bullying and abuse is an awesome way to make kids behave. How's that working? Not well. Why? The cycle of bullying and no respect continues. If you have to hit, you're doing something wrong. Honestly, I'm at the point in my life where I'm cutting out people who think that abuse is okay. I can tell you with 100% certainty that the threat of corporal punishment by a school would have the opposite effect than what they would want... there's no way I would have respected anyone who thought hitting me would make me behave. That it's 2016 and there are still people out there who think that corporal punishment is okay and that kids are little shits today because they aren't hit by their parents and teachers is mind-boggling. There are better, more effective consequences than hitting a kid. If you can't get that... well, there's just no hope. My experience is the opposite of yours.
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Post by Karen-in-Indiana on Apr 15, 2016 16:01:25 GMT
This is just an age old argument. As a kid I was also taught to fear my Lord God. Lot of kids don't have that either but that's a whole other can of worms. Fear makes you obedient. That's just the way it is. I agree to disagree.
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Post by Karen-in-Indiana on Apr 15, 2016 16:04:25 GMT
ITA! I have a hard time believing this is the one scenario where it's okay to strike somebody. If my husband hit me during an argument, is that okay because it might teach me to be more respectful? If my co-worker hit me is it teaching me a valuable lesson? NO...it is not ok what-so-ever for any adult to hit another adult in this context. That is abuse!
This thread is about corporal punishment of children. Don't mix the two.
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peabay
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Post by peabay on Apr 15, 2016 16:09:07 GMT
They are good, respectful, intelligent young adults now. So are mine. Never were spanked, never were threatened with spanking. No cause and effect there for either of us.
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Mystie
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Post by Mystie on Apr 15, 2016 16:09:18 GMT
This is just an age old argument. As a kid I was also taught to fear my Lord God. Lot of kids don't have that either but that's a whole other can of worms. Fear makes you obedient. That's just the way it is. I agree to disagree. No no no no no. Love and respect make you obedient.
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Post by Karen-in-Indiana on Apr 15, 2016 16:15:52 GMT
This is just an age old argument. As a kid I was also taught to fear my Lord God. Lot of kids don't have that either but that's a whole other can of worms. Fear makes you obedient. That's just the way it is. I agree to disagree. No no no no no. Love and respect make you obedient. Yes...you are correct. I also love and respect my Lord God. As well as my parents, who spanked me as needed. As I said earlier, it was VERY rarely that I even needed spanked by my parents or had the need for my own kids. Because love and respect was also taught to me and my own kids. Not all parents teach that anymore!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 15, 2016 16:27:22 GMT
It is legal, and the parent who video taped it gave her consent, and posted it and now since she's getting backlash, is trying to back track and say she didn't have a choice.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 15, 2016 16:30:26 GMT
Aside from the talk of paddling being allowed--WTH with the mother sitting there filming while her child is begging and crying? I find a problem with her--seems she is just intent on getting a viral video instead of getting involved as a parent. Several different issues in this story for me. That's because she okay and approved her child being paddled. She was all for it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 16:30:58 GMT
ITA! I have a hard time believing this is the one scenario where it's okay to strike somebody. If my husband hit me during an argument, is that okay because it might teach me to be more respectful? If my co-worker hit me is it teaching me a valuable lesson? NO...it is not ok what-so-ever for any adult to hit another adult in this context. That is abuse!
This thread is about corporal punishment of children. Don't mix the two.
Please explain how corporal punishment of a five year old and abuse are different things?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 16:40:17 GMT
Sure, fear can make one obedient. Obedience borne of fear is exactly why many abused women don't leave their abusers. I'd rather not teach my kid fear-based obedience is normal/expected.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 16:53:26 GMT
I know I probably sound like a broken record but, I worked with children for many years and never once did I feel like I needed to make any child afraid of me. I'd be incredibly ashamed of myself if fear was my only method of producing good behaviour. Fear does not produce healthy children imo.
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grinningcat
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Post by grinningcat on Apr 15, 2016 16:57:32 GMT
This is just an age old argument. As a kid I was also taught to fear my Lord God. Lot of kids don't have that either but that's a whole other can of worms. Fear makes you obedient. That's just the way it is. I agree to disagree. Nope, that's not just the way it is. Fear doesn't make me or anyone I know obedient, it makes them defiant against the person or entity using fear to dominate. Respect is what makes people want to be obedient. And what on earth does your Lord God have to do with this? Though I have heard about the whole fear god thing... yeah, one of the many things that led me to realise I was actually an atheist.
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grinningcat
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Post by grinningcat on Apr 15, 2016 16:58:31 GMT
No no no no no. Love and respect make you obedient. Yes...you are correct. I also love and respect my Lord God. As well as my parents, who spanked me as needed. As I said earlier, it was VERY rarely that I even needed spanked by my parents or had the need for my own kids. Because love and respect was also taught to me and my own kids. Not all parents teach that anymore! So which is it? Fear or love and respect? Because if you're teaching your kids to fear you, you're not teaching them to love and respect you. Quite the opposite, actually.
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grinningcat
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Post by grinningcat on Apr 15, 2016 16:59:26 GMT
NO...it is not ok what-so-ever for any adult to hit another adult in this context. That is abuse!
This thread is about corporal punishment of children. Don't mix the two.
Please explain how corporal punishment of a five year old and abuse are different things? I'd like to know that as well. Why is adult to adult abuse but adult to kid is not? That seems super duper backwards.
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Post by ntsf on Apr 15, 2016 17:18:26 GMT
I was raised in the 1950's and my parents never hit us once. we grew up just fine. they did time outs and discussions. you didn't want to disappoint them..we did not fear them.
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Post by myshelly on Apr 15, 2016 17:21:58 GMT
This is just an age old argument. As a kid I was also taught to fear my Lord God. Lot of kids don't have that either but that's a whole other can of worms. Fear makes you obedient. That's just the way it is. I agree to disagree. Ugh. Obedience isn't something I value. I would feel like a failure if anyone described me or my children as obedient. I also do not believe fear is a good thing. My children don't fear me. I have no desire for them to fear me. I just don't even understand people who think like this.
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pudgygroundhog
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 15, 2016 17:32:44 GMT
ITA! I have a hard time believing this is the one scenario where it's okay to strike somebody. If my husband hit me during an argument, is that okay because it might teach me to be more respectful? If my co-worker hit me is it teaching me a valuable lesson? NO...it is not ok what-so-ever for any adult to hit another adult in this context. That is abuse!
This thread is about corporal punishment of children. Don't mix the two.
Why is it abuse for an adult to hit an adult but corporal punishment is okay? Please elaborate on how these are different?
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Apr 15, 2016 17:42:06 GMT
ITA! I have a hard time believing this is the one scenario where it's okay to strike somebody. If my husband hit me during an argument, is that okay because it might teach me to be more respectful? If my co-worker hit me is it teaching me a valuable lesson? NO...it is not ok what-so-ever for any adult to hit another adult in this context. That is abuse!
This thread is about corporal punishment of children. Don't mix the two.
So explain why it is abuse if an adult hits another adult or if a child hits another child it is bullying, but when an adult hits a child it is ok? I think the scenarios above are good examples of how what you are trying to say about obedience and abide are wrong.
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grinningcat
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Post by grinningcat on Apr 15, 2016 17:42:18 GMT
Yeah... hitting a kid to make them behave is a great punishment. BULLSHIT. All hitting a kid does is teach them that violence is okay if you want to get your way. Yup, bullying and abuse is an awesome way to make kids behave. How's that working? Not well. Why? The cycle of bullying and no respect continues. If you have to hit, you're doing something wrong. Honestly, I'm at the point in my life where I'm cutting out people who think that abuse is okay. I can tell you with 100% certainty that the threat of corporal punishment by a school would have the opposite effect than what they would want... there's no way I would have respected anyone who thought hitting me would make me behave. That it's 2016 and there are still people out there who think that corporal punishment is okay and that kids are little shits today because they aren't hit by their parents and teachers is mind-boggling. There are better, more effective consequences than hitting a kid. If you can't get that... well, there's just no hope. My experience is the opposite of yours. Your experience is that hitting a kid is the best consequence for misbehaving? How so?
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