tuesdaysgone
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,832
Jun 26, 2014 18:26:03 GMT
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Post by tuesdaysgone on Apr 26, 2016 16:51:26 GMT
Just wow! Let's give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she doesn't understand what she's doing. I'd go directly to her and explain (again) why this is a problem. I'm old school about rules. Students need to be kept on a short leash. Give them an inch...well, we all know what happens then. Good luck as you tackle yet another challenge this year.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 22:20:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 16:54:07 GMT
Sheesh, what the heck is wrong with her? As someone new to the profession, she should have her ears wide open when given advice. I can't believe she blew you off twice. I wouldn't bother with approaching her a third time. Take it higher and mention she's disrupting classes for any number of other teachers, too.
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Post by Anne-Marie on Apr 26, 2016 18:36:42 GMT
This is my take on students leaving your class when specifically told not to leave and taking their friends with them. ALL STUDENTS WHO LEFT WILL IMMEDIATELY BE REPORTED TO THE PRINCIPAL AS SKIPPING CLASS.. There has to be consequences for the students. I would also report the teacher. So what if the students blame you. Their attitude and participation during choir will be reflected in their grade. Keep notes on each student you are having to deal with so when the parent shows up to complain, you can show them what you have been dealing with. You need to let the parent know that if they and their child do not wish to participate in choir, they need to go to the office and withdraw. If they do not withdraw, they will receive a failing grade for unexcused absenceand will not be able to make up the work. Thus, no problem for you, the student or the parent. If they do not want to be in and participate in choir, they need to withdraw. I'm glad I read all the responses before I started typing. tomocus saved me the trouble. The only thing I wasn't going to type - I wouldn't report the teacher. I would count the kids absent from my class and let it work itself out from there.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 22:20:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 18:44:02 GMT
Maybe her immaturity does not allow her to realize her passes are causing friction because kids will used whatever means they can to get out of required work? I would try to "coach" the teacher first and be very factual - "by freely writing these passes kids now see skipping choir as their right and the result is animosity between teacher and student."
If it doesn't click after that tell her upfront that the two of you need to discuss the situation with the principal - together - and get to a resolution. I wouldn't throw her under the bus but let her be part of the problem solving process.
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Post by 950nancy on Apr 26, 2016 18:47:08 GMT
I think this can be a huge flaw with most new teachers. She is wanting to make friends with the kids and make school fun. I started a long time ago, but remember thinking I could be friends with the kids and make school fun. It is kind of like the parent who wants to be friends with their own kids. It all looks great in the beginning, but kids are smart and it will bite her in the ass, for sure.
I'm not one for ratting out other teachers, but I think you need to have one more sit down with her and say DO NOT write passes for kids to get out of MY class. It is causing problems. Let her know that it is not okay for your class and that you will have to let the principal know if it continues. That way you are letting her decide her fate.
I was a mentor almost every year to new teachers and this happens a lot. We all start out idealistic and then events shape us into the teachers we become.
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Post by 950nancy on Apr 26, 2016 18:48:58 GMT
Maybe her immaturity does not allow her to realize her passes are causing friction because kids will used whatever means they can to get out of required work? I would try to "coach" the teacher first and be very factual - "by freely writing these passes kids now see skipping choir as their right and the result is animosity between teacher and student."If it doesn't click after that tell her upfront that the two of you need to discuss the situation with the principal - together - and get to a resolution. I wouldn't throw her under the bus but let her be part of the problem solving process. It can also become kind of the divorced parent situation where one parent is trying to one up the other parent. She clearly isn't thinking, or if she is, she does not know how to be a team player with forethought.
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Post by 950nancy on Apr 26, 2016 18:51:37 GMT
This is my take on students leaving your class when specifically told not to leave and taking their friends with them. ALL STUDENTS WHO LEFT WILL IMMEDIATELY BE REPORTED TO THE PRINCIPAL AS SKIPPING CLASS.. There has to be consequences for the students. I would also report the teacher. So what if the students blame you. Their attitude and participation during choir will be reflected in their grade. Keep notes on each student you are having to deal with so when the parent shows up to complain, you can show them what you have been dealing with. You need to let the parent know that if they and their child do not wish to participate in choir, they need to go to the office and withdraw. If they do not withdraw, they will receive a failing grade for unexcused absenceand will not be able to make up the work. Thus, no problem for you, the student or the parent. If they do not want to be in and participate in choir, they need to withdraw. I'm glad I read all the responses before I started typing. tomocus saved me the trouble. The only thing I wasn't going to type - I wouldn't report the teacher. I would count the kids absent from my class and let it work itself out from there. I think the friction is being caused because the children have passes and are asking to leave class. When Merge says no, it causes issues with the kids. I don't think they are leaving on their own. My sons had a librarian who gave the kids passes during study hall. They loved that and they both hate to read. It only works when you are pulling from study hall.
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Peamac
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 0:09:18 GMT
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Post by Peamac on Apr 26, 2016 19:36:42 GMT
If it doesn't click after that tell her upfront that the two of you need to discuss the situation with the principal - together - and get to a resolution. I wouldn't throw her under the bus but let her be part of the problem solving process. I think this is a good idea (except that you've already told her to stop more than once and she hasn't). I'd get the two of you and the principal together to discuss this asap. That way she'll hear from him that it's not something she should be doing, but you wqn't be directly throwing her under the bus because you'll be "working together" to find a "solution" to the problem.
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kate
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Jun 26, 2014 3:30:05 GMT
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Post by kate on Apr 26, 2016 21:50:44 GMT
I'm still not understanding how a teacher for one class can write a pass for a student to leave another teacher's class? ?? You've asked her on more than one occasion: 1) Announce to the entire class that no passes written by another teacher will be honored, so don't even ask. 2) Advise your department chair or principal (whomever is your next in the chain of command) of the situation. Why pussy-foot around? My jaw thunked to the floor at her big brass cojones!
At this point, I would be tempted to email her, ever-so-politely saying that she should no longer write passes because you don't accept them. And cc admin.
It would be much more direct, though, to just go to admin and ask WTH is going on. There's an outside chance she has some weird permission - I don't really know how your admin is. You've already talked to her. I wouldn't go back that route. And I honestly believe admin should know about the shenanigans. As a pp said, is she also allowed to write free passes out of math class?
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Post by lurkingsince2001 on Apr 26, 2016 22:05:40 GMT
Not only is she causing needless friction, but she could be a liability issue. What are the legal and career ramifications if something happens to those kids while they are there? Frankly, I think admin needs to brought in so they can explain the situation to her and protect themselves. It's also a bit of CYA for yourself. I'd hate for you to get splashback if something terrible happened and it turned out her fellow teachers knew about the lack of supervision and did nothing.
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Post by christine58 on Apr 26, 2016 22:08:27 GMT
Merge Does your school have a mentoring program??
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,969
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Apr 26, 2016 22:33:55 GMT
We have a new theater teacher who was hired mid-year. She is a first-year teacher, and is young and pretty and very popular with her classes - seems very interested in being "friends" with the kids, which is a rookie mistake, but she hasn't asked my opinion, so I keep my mouth shut. I teach choir, and we share many of the same students. Several times over the past few weeks, my students have come to my class with a pass from this theater teacher to come to her room during our choir class time. She allows them to just hang out there even when she is teaching other classes - and I suspect supervision is very light during those times. They have learned quickly that she will allow this, and so now they will ask her for passes frequently, and she always says yes. These students will come to choir and say that they have a pass to go to the theater room, and can they go? We have concerts coming up in the next few weeks, so the answer is no - I need every student in rehearsal every day. When I say no, some kids get mad and refuse to participate appropriately in choir, saying that since they're not going to do anything, I should just send them to the theater room. Yesterday, a girl came with a pass, and when I said no, she turned around and left the room and went anyway, and took three friends with her. I went and got them back and wrote them up. I have asked the theater teacher, first very politely and then more bluntly, to stop writing passes for my students to visit her class. It creates discontent and animosity when kids start thinking they can choose which class to be in at any given time. She responded that she is always happy to have the kids in her class and that I should feel free to say no if I can't spare them, but doesn't seem to understand that by freely writing these passes, she is both showing the kids that she thinks choir rehearsal isn't valuable and putting me in the position of having to say no to something that shouldn't have been allowed in the first place, but that the kids now see as their "right." This morning another student showed up with a pass to her class. What would you do at this point? I strongly dislike ratting other teachers out to administrators, but I'm not sure how else to fix the problem now. We have this issue from time to time with new or new-to-the-school teachers. We get it for electives and for core classes. Sometimes the teachers are the same as your coworker. Sometimes they have something they feel is more important than my class for the kids to do. Sometimes they haven't effectively gauged how long tests take. I have learned to stand up for my class. I spend a lot of time making sure my class runs smoothly. It is rare that a student can miss even 15 minutes of my class without losing out. Like you, I speak to the offending teacher. If it continues I send an email to the principal asking him to send a general reminder to the staff about this. If it continues again, I will speak to the principal in person and name the offending teacher. I have only had to do that twice. You have to protect your instructional time.
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Post by Merge on Apr 26, 2016 23:11:13 GMT
Thanks again for all your thoughts.
To answer some of you - no, we do not have a mentor program at our school. It would be a great idea! It's actually pretty rare for this school to hire first-year teachers, though, so there aren't that many of them.
Yes, choir is an elective, and while many kids choose to be in choir, it's also the elective into which they're most likely to be "shoved" if nothing else is available, because we're not limited by the number of desks or instruments. So I have a lot who chose it, and a decent-sized chunk who don't really want to be there. It's also somewhat common for kids to get into choir and realize that it's not all singing pop songs, and become disgruntled. So there's that.
I went and talked to her at lunch today and just nicely explained where I was coming from with my request. I still don't think she gets it, but I feel fairly certain that she won't be writing passes for my students any longer. She's kind of an odd duck - she is very brash and outspoken, and comes across as very confident. Doesn't seem inclined to think she needs any advice.
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moodyblue
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Posts: 6,247
Location: Western Illinois
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Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Apr 26, 2016 23:17:48 GMT
If she does it again, I'd send an email and copy the administration. You can reference your previous conversations and reiterate the points while also getting admin informed.
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Post by christine58 on Apr 26, 2016 23:20:44 GMT
She's kind of an odd duck - she is very brash and outspoken, and comes across as very confident. Doesn't seem inclined to think she needs any advice. I see that a lot...we have a mentor program (NYS requires mentoring the first year of teaching) and some just don't get it
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georgiapea
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Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Apr 26, 2016 23:30:44 GMT
Does she also give passes to those students who go from her class to Algebra? Or is it just your class she disrespects?
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Post by freecharlie on Apr 26, 2016 23:40:04 GMT
I teach special ed, so some students are allowed to come to my class as an intervention behaviors or if they are overwhelmed, but I would never write a pass just to get out of class
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Post by annaintx on Apr 27, 2016 0:11:56 GMT
"It creates discontent and animosity when kids start thinking they can choose which class to be in at any given time. By freely writing these passes, you are both showing the kids that you think choir rehearsal isn't valuable and putting me in the position of having to say no to something that shouldn't have been allowed in the first place, but that the kids now see as their "right.""
That is what you need to tell her, point blank. After that, if it still continues, go to the department chair for Fine Arts (if you have one). If not, go to your administrator.
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Post by mlynn on Apr 27, 2016 19:49:42 GMT
I would confront her. Ask her directly why she is interfering with your class and your concert. Ask her how she expects the students to earn credit for a class they ever attend.
I would also consider sending notices to the parents about a potential failing grade for never being in class.
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smartypants71
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Jun 25, 2014 22:47:49 GMT
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Post by smartypants71 on Apr 27, 2016 19:56:30 GMT
Funny enough, my son was given a pass to leave Theater yesterday to go to his History class. However, *I* had to give permission along with the theater teacher. My son had a bunch of work to make up in history
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Post by 950nancy on Apr 27, 2016 20:23:48 GMT
She's kind of an odd duck - she is very brash and outspoken, and comes across as very confident. Doesn't seem inclined to think she needs any advice. I see that a lot...we have a mentor program (NYS requires mentoring the first year of teaching) and some just don't get it We have it too and it is also offered to new people to the district (no matter how long you have taught) just so you have someone in the building you feel you can go to for anything. I loved being a mentor to experienced teachers because we got to spend time discussing best practices and not classroom management.
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Post by myboysnme on Apr 27, 2016 20:33:59 GMT
Can you tell the child they will get a zero in your class for each class they choose to leave. Tell the class you will not honor passes from teachers to leave class. They will receive a zero.
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artbabe
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 1:59:10 GMT
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Post by artbabe on Apr 28, 2016 1:36:34 GMT
For those of you shocked that this happens:
I've been teaching for 22 years, 3 school systems, 5 schools. Teachers are always writing passes to get kids out of art so they can work on another subject. Always. Most of the time they ask. I usually say it is okay, sometimes not. Sometimes they don't bother to ask me and then just send the kid with a late pass at the end of the period. If you teach art, music, phys. ed., etc. it happens all of the time.
Good luck with this.
edited: Ha! I just remembered that I made a new teacher cry about 10 years ago when I was a little too emphatic about that not happening. She TOLD me (didn't ask) she was taking kids out of my class and I told her no way in hell was that happening. Oops. That happened so long ago that I forgot about it. The kids remained in my class, though. I think other teachers told her how to approach that better. She avoided me for a long time.
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JustTricia
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Jul 2, 2014 17:12:39 GMT
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Post by JustTricia on Apr 28, 2016 1:40:57 GMT
For those of you shocked that this happens: I've been teaching for 22 years, 3 school systems, 5 schools. Teachers are always writing passes to get kids out of art so they can work on another subject. Always. Most of the time they ask. I usually say it is okay, sometimes not. Sometimes they don't bother to ask me and then just send the kid with a late pass at the end of the period. If you teach art, music, phys. ed., etc. it happens all of the time. Good luck with this. Which subjects are the other teachers teaching? Are they core subjects where the student is making up work / tests? Sorry, but I do see that as an acceptable reason to write a pass, especially if there are no study halls. But, if the other teachers are writing passes just so the student can hang out in their class, no academic reason for it, that's different.
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Post by 950nancy on Apr 28, 2016 1:51:50 GMT
For those of you shocked that this happens: I've been teaching for 22 years, 3 school systems, 5 schools. Teachers are always writing passes to get kids out of art so they can work on another subject. Always. Most of the time they ask. I usually say it is okay, sometimes not. Sometimes they don't bother to ask me and then just send the kid with a late pass at the end of the period. If you teach art, music, phys. ed., etc. it happens all of the time. Good luck with this. Which subjects are the other teachers teaching? Are they core subjects where the student is making up work / tests? Sorry, but I do see that as an acceptable reason to write a pass, especially if there are no study halls. But, if the other teachers are writing passes just so the student can hang out in their class, no academic reason for it, that's different. I taught core subjects, but would never ever suggest that a music class (or art) was not important. Every teacher fights for their time with kids to cover the material they need to cover. At our school, we were never allowed to let a child be late to another class. Our electives teachers felt disrespected by it and everyone tried to follow the rules.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,969
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Apr 28, 2016 2:46:58 GMT
For those of you shocked that this happens: I've been teaching for 22 years, 3 school systems, 5 schools. Teachers are always writing passes to get kids out of art so they can work on another subject. Always. Most of the time they ask. I usually say it is okay, sometimes not. Sometimes they don't bother to ask me and then just send the kid with a late pass at the end of the period. If you teach art, music, phys. ed., etc. it happens all of the time. Good luck with this. Which subjects are the other teachers teaching? Are they core subjects where the student is making up work / tests? Sorry, but I do see that as an acceptable reason to write a pass, especially if there are no study halls. But, if the other teachers are writing passes just so the student can hang out in their class, no academic reason for it, that's different. All teachers have standards they must teach. It is never acceptable for one teacher to behave as though her time is more important than another's. So disrespectful. If a child needs to make up something, it needs to be done after school or during tutorial. Not make it so he gets behind in another subject.
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Post by Anne-Marie on May 3, 2016 17:20:08 GMT
For those of you shocked that this happens: I've been teaching for 22 years, 3 school systems, 5 schools. Teachers are always writing passes to get kids out of art so they can work on another subject. Always. Most of the time they ask. I usually say it is okay, sometimes not. Sometimes they don't bother to ask me and then just send the kid with a late pass at the end of the period. If you teach art, music, phys. ed., etc. it happens all of the time. Good luck with this. edited: Ha! I just remembered that I made a new teacher cry about 10 years ago when I was a little too emphatic about that not happening. She TOLD me (didn't ask) she was taking kids out of my class and I told her no way in hell was that happening. Oops. That happened so long ago that I forgot about it. The kids remained in my class, though. I think other teachers told her how to approach that better. She avoided me for a long time. One of my best friends was a PE teacher for several years and shared many unfortunate examples of how the fine arts (here in our district we call them specials - PE, art, choir, library, etc.), teachers were treated as "less than" teachers. Not just by their fellow teachers but often by the administration, students, and parents as well. It was really disheartening for her. She was pouring herself into an entire school of kids (she taught elementary PE and at some point during the week every child in that school was with her) and she and the other specials teachers, and their classes, were constantly disregarded.
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Post by karen on May 3, 2016 17:45:17 GMT
I think that admin needs to get involved with this. We also have some ne/newish teachers who think they can do no wrong. Somebody with the authority to fire her needs to explain why this is a problem.
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Post by pierkiss on May 3, 2016 20:26:22 GMT
Frankly I'm surprised this is even allowed to happen at your school. I find it odd that kids can just get teachers to write them passes to go to another classroom during a completely different class period.
To answer your question, you've asked her to stop twice, and she hasn't yet. Time to take it to your boss. Perhaps it's time for this policy to change.
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raindancer
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Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on May 3, 2016 20:30:43 GMT
I have no advice, but holy shit, I'm so sorry you are dealing with that. I cannot imagine. What a bunch of undermining and complete bullshit. She sucks.
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