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Post by Merge on Apr 26, 2016 13:37:44 GMT
ETA: This has had a positive resolution! I talked to her one more time and told her that when she wrote these passes, she was leading the kids to think that choir is an unimportant subject that can just be skipped. She said she never thought of it that way, and that nothing was further from the truth (she is a singer as well as an actor, so she does see the value).
She's also had this situation bite her in the butt already, as she's finding that kids feel like it's OK to walk into her room any time - for example, if another teacher gives them a bathroom pass, they will sometimes mysteriously end up in the theater room. Not just from my class. She laughed and said, "Valuable lesson there," and I agreed.
She's new. She's learning. It's all good.
I really do appreciate the support and insights. Peas are the best!
________________________________________
We have a new theater teacher who was hired mid-year. She is a first-year teacher, and is young and pretty and very popular with her classes - seems very interested in being "friends" with the kids, which is a rookie mistake, but she hasn't asked my opinion, so I keep my mouth shut.
I teach choir, and we share many of the same students. Several times over the past few weeks, my students have come to my class with a pass from this theater teacher to come to her room during our choir class time. She allows them to just hang out there even when she is teaching other classes - and I suspect supervision is very light during those times. They have learned quickly that she will allow this, and so now they will ask her for passes frequently, and she always says yes. These students will come to choir and say that they have a pass to go to the theater room, and can they go?
We have concerts coming up in the next few weeks, so the answer is no - I need every student in rehearsal every day. When I say no, some kids get mad and refuse to participate appropriately in choir, saying that since they're not going to do anything, I should just send them to the theater room. Yesterday, a girl came with a pass, and when I said no, she turned around and left the room and went anyway, and took three friends with her. I went and got them back and wrote them up.
I have asked the theater teacher, first very politely and then more bluntly, to stop writing passes for my students to visit her class. It creates discontent and animosity when kids start thinking they can choose which class to be in at any given time. She responded that she is always happy to have the kids in her class and that I should feel free to say no if I can't spare them, but doesn't seem to understand that by freely writing these passes, she is both showing the kids that she thinks choir rehearsal isn't valuable and putting me in the position of having to say no to something that shouldn't have been allowed in the first place, but that the kids now see as their "right."
This morning another student showed up with a pass to her class. What would you do at this point? I strongly dislike ratting other teachers out to administrators, but I'm not sure how else to fix the problem now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 13:56:56 GMT
Wow - that's a really tough one. I'd be majorly pissed. Especially since she's a newbie and you've asked her twice and she still won't stop. I understand your dilemma because if you demand she stop giving passes, she'll tell the kids you requested it, then they'll blame you.
In really not sure what I'd do, probably ask her again and let her know you'll go to admin if she continues to deliberately sabotage your rehearsals for the concert.
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paigepea
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Post by paigepea on Apr 26, 2016 13:58:09 GMT
Is there a consequence for the kids missing your class? Like they can't participate in an upcoming concert or they have to make the practice time up at another time? Can you institute rules like that? If you can't, and you've already tried asking the teacher, then it might be time to casually go up the ladder. Is there a dept head you can speak to?
Can you try the teacher again? Can you say please don't write my students a pass as I can no longer spare them for the rest of the year. I've never heard of a pass to leave class in a high school setting. Perhaps that is the rule that needs to be instituted. Sorry you're dealing with this but I totally understand your frustration.
Paige.
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Post by debmast on Apr 26, 2016 14:04:41 GMT
This would be a big fat NO at our school. Our admins don't even like this happening during advisory time (unless they are being pulled for tutorials) so pulling from actual class time would be a definite no.
If it was disrupting class time, I'd talk to admin
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Post by jennyap on Apr 26, 2016 14:04:59 GMT
We have a new theater teacher who was hired mid-year. She is a first-year teacher, and is young and pretty and very popular with her classes - seems very interested in being "friends" with the kids, which is a rookie mistake, but she hasn't asked my opinion, so I keep my mouth shut. I teach choir, and we share many of the same students. Several times over the past few weeks, my students have come to my class with a pass from this theater teacher to come to her room during our choir class time. She allows them to just hang out there even when she is teaching other classes - and I suspect supervision is very light during those times. They have learned quickly that she will allow this, and so now they will ask her for passes frequently, and she always says yes. These students will come to choir and say that they have a pass to go to the theater room, and can they go? We have concerts coming up in the next few weeks, so the answer is no - I need every student in rehearsal every day. When I say no, some kids get mad and refuse to participate appropriately in choir, saying that since they're not going to do anything, I should just send them to the theater room. Yesterday, a girl came with a pass, and when I said no, she turned around and left the room and went anyway, and took three friends with her. I went and got them back and wrote them up. I have asked the theater teacher, first very politely and then more bluntly, to stop writing passes for my students to visit her class. It creates discontent and animosity when kids start thinking they can choose which class to be in at any given time. She responded that she is always happy to have the kids in her class and that I should feel free to say no if I can't spare them, but doesn't seem to understand that by freely writing these passes, she is both showing the kids that she thinks choir rehearsal isn't valuable and putting me in the position of having to say no to something that shouldn't have been allowed in the first place, but that the kids now see as their "right." This morning another student showed up with a pass to her class. What would you do at this point? I strongly dislike ratting other teachers out to administrators, but I'm not sure how else to fix the problem now.Not a teacher but I think you've answered your own question. As you've already addressed it with her directly, the only option left to you is to take it to admin. |
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Post by snugglebutter on Apr 26, 2016 14:09:58 GMT
How frustrating. The fact that she will not extend basic respect to a fellow fine arts teacher says a lot. (and I'm assuming this teacher would not like you writing passes for her students to leave her class in the weeks before theater productions - not that you would of course)
What I really don't understand is how this is allowed at all. I've never heard of passes like that being written unless it is for something like study hall.
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caro
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Post by caro on Apr 26, 2016 14:16:44 GMT
I suspect this is not allowed but admin doesn't know it's happening yet. Merge, stand up and show the newbie who is boss.  . J/k and I'm sorry you are in this position. |
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Post by bc2ca on Apr 26, 2016 14:20:03 GMT
She is a first year teacher who obviously isn't thinking through the impact of freely handing out passes. Unfortunately, I think you have no choice but to take it to the next level as she doesn't get it. Sorry you are having to deal with this on top of the other issues this year  . |
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pudgygroundhog
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 26, 2016 14:21:07 GMT
I'm not a teacher, but let me understand - she is writing passes for kids to leave YOUR class to just go hang out? How can a teacher excuse a student from another class like that? Odd.
It sounds like you have asked her twice already and she doesn't get it - I think it's okay to go to the administration about it as it is negatively affecting your class time and undercutting your authority. If you feel bad about "ratting" her out, you could tell her once more that you want her to please stop as it's making it difficult to properly rehearse and if it doesn't stop you will need to address it at a higher level. But I think once you've gone to the source of a problem and it's not solved, it is fine to escalate.
Does your school have a written policy about passes?
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tiffanytwisted
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Post by tiffanytwisted on Apr 26, 2016 14:24:05 GMT
So let me get this straight, one teacher is allowed to write a pass so a student can skip a class? Even if you could do that, why would someone do this? (rhetorical question - there is no good answer to that) It is so wrong on so many levels, I won't even bother to type out all the thoughts in my head. And way to make yourself well liked among your peers . . .
Haven't been in the school system in many years, but I can tell you that would tick me off to no end. Is she doing this w/any other classes? Ask around. Maybe if there are more of you and you sort of make a group complaint, it won't come across as you ratting her out.
Or, can you sort of 'back door' her and have an admin stop by your class and 'notice' students missing so you can 'innocently' tell him/her where they are? That way she'd get caught pulling her shenanigans w/out you being the proverbial bad guy.
Other than that, I'm guessing going to the administration might be your only play at this point. Good luck!
And can I just say for the ten millionth time, what is wrong with people?!!!
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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 26, 2016 14:26:22 GMT
What is the official policy on passes? I find the whole idea that she can regularly hand out passes to students to miss another class bizarre, so have to believe she's contrary to the official policy.
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Apr 26, 2016 14:32:25 GMT
Have you addressed this with your class yet? I would sit them down and say that you need them in class, you won't honour these passes, so they shouldn't bother bringing them to you because the answer will always be no.
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Peamac
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Post by Peamac on Apr 26, 2016 14:46:46 GMT
In really not sure what I'd do, probably ask her again and let her know you'll go to admin if she continues to deliberately sabotage your rehearsals for the concert. This!  Give her one more chance to stop, but let her know if it happens again, she'll be forcing you to go to someone higher up. You'd think she'd understand the importance of rehearsals, since she's the theater teacher. Would she allow students to skip her class time to go hang out with you? I'm guessing not. |
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moodyblue
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Post by moodyblue on Apr 26, 2016 14:52:49 GMT
I think I would - bluntly - tell her exactly what you told us. You said you don't think she understands the underlying messages in what she's doing, so I'd make sure to lay it out VERY clearly. My guess is she really doesn't get it, because she hasn't thought this through. And I'd make it clear that if this doesn't stop your next step is to involve an administrator.
I think it sounds like she's making a rookie mistake, in trying too hard to be friends and the cool teacher the kids like to hang out with. Not appropriate, and probably very much against policy to excuse students from another class just to hang out in her room.
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Post by alexa11 on Apr 26, 2016 15:02:03 GMT
Have you addressed this with your class yet? I would sit them down and say that you need them in class, you won't honour these passes, so they shouldn't bother bringing them to you because the answer will always be no.  And address it with the teacher one more time. Tell her you have no choice except go to admin if she doesn't stop. What teacher wants extra students in their room when they should be in another class??? I know I certainly didn't!
I can't believe those kids walked out of your room. You have way more patience than I do- I would have been livid! And would have walked with them to her room and made scene right then!!!
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MerryMom
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Post by MerryMom on Apr 26, 2016 15:04:32 GMT
I'm still not understanding how a teacher for one class can write a pass for a student to leave another teacher's class?  ?? You've asked her on more than one occasion: 1) Announce to the entire class that no passes written by another teacher will be honored, so don't even ask. 2) Advise your department chair or principal (whomever is your next in the chain of command) of the situation. Why pussy-foot around? |
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ginacivey
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Post by ginacivey on Apr 26, 2016 15:06:15 GMT
she should have a mentor assigned to her - take it up with her
gina
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zztop11
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Post by zztop11 on Apr 26, 2016 15:16:59 GMT
Speak with her department chairman. She must have someone who supervises her besides the admin
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2016 15:54:41 GMT
Why is she so intent on making YOU the bad guy who has to say no? She should have enough respect for her colleagues to honor your request. How would she feel if she had an important performance coming up, but another teacher wrote passes for the students who needed to rehearse? My guess is she wouldn't like it, especially if she asked the other teacher to stop.
You've given her two chances. If you're inclined to give her a third, let her know that the next step is going over her head.
And on the off chance she's not aware which students are in your class when she's writing passes, maybe provide her with a class list?
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freebird
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Post by freebird on Apr 26, 2016 16:02:38 GMT
being signed out of one class to go hang out in another? As a parent, I'd be pissed off. Pissed off at her for allowing it. Pissed off at you for not dropping the hammer and pissed off at the school for not having a policy in place already. If you have math class, you can't sign out of math to go to science! Sheesh.
(I'm not pissed off at you, I know you're trying).
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freebird
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Post by freebird on Apr 26, 2016 16:03:57 GMT
Can you make an announcement at the beginning of your next class, "From this point until XX Date, no passes will be granted so do not ask. If you don't attend this class xxx will happen." (failing grade, not being allowed to be in the concert, whatever)
??
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suzastampin
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Post by suzastampin on Apr 26, 2016 16:05:45 GMT
Have you taken any points off the grades of those who skip? I'd be giving the student either a 0 for the day or an incomplete at the end of the semester. You've asked her twice and she didn't comply so I'd have no trouble going up the chain of command.
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JustTricia
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Post by JustTricia on Apr 26, 2016 16:16:03 GMT
The above is my question ~is choir a graded class? Whether a letter grade or pass / fail doesn't matter.
I would go to the other teacher one more time and be very blunt.
I will not allow any more passes from my class. If a student misses my class for this reason they will receive a 0 for the day, negatively impacting their grade. If you continue to write passes I will bring administration in to this. My class is just as important as yours.
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Post by utmr on Apr 26, 2016 16:16:53 GMT
My experience with a "fun" theatre teacher is that nothing good happens in the theatre room when the kids are "hanging out ". Trust me on this. Nothing good.
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msliz
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Post by msliz on Apr 26, 2016 16:25:18 GMT
My kids' schools take attendance for each class. It's all in the computer, and I can see if they skipped a class.
Yes, that teacher needs to be told by administration to knock it off. But hold the students responsible for being present in your classroom during your class. It might be too late for you to do anything this year, but starting next year I would have a policy docking them points for this kind of unexcused absence.
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seaexplore
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Post by seaexplore on Apr 26, 2016 16:27:26 GMT
I'd just straight up tell the kids they cannot leave. You are the teacher, they are students. I get needing to be in another classroom from time to time (test make-up comes to mind. I pull kids from PE to take missed tests but always check with the teacher first) but multiple kids often? Hell to the no. If kids give you crap about it, direct them to the admin. Your class is just as important as the other!
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Post by STBC on Apr 26, 2016 16:30:20 GMT
My experience with a "fun" theatre teacher is that nothing good happens in the theatre room when the kids are "hanging out ". Trust me on this. Nothing good. I'm going to second this. Also...are you sure that the kids with passes are actually showing up to her room to hang out or are they using it as a free pass to go wherever they want? I'm guessing that if she hands out five passes, that she doesn't actually monitor to see if five kids show up. |
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Post by Merge on Apr 26, 2016 16:36:47 GMT
Thanks all for the input. To clarify, I have not been letting the kids go to her room. I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I think other teachers must be allowing it for my kids to think this is even a possibility. I have allowed zero kids to leave my rehearsal to go sit in her room, but they keep trying and she keeps writing the passes. The problem I have is the attitude they're copping with me about not being allowed. I deal with enough middle school attitude already - I don't need a teacher giving the kids another reason to roll their eyes and sulk!
The girl and her friends who walked out - I don't even know what to say about that. That is absolutely not allowed, and I raised hell with them, contacted their parents and wrote them up. I also let the theater teacher know that they did not have my permission to be there. I also had a boy who asked for a bathroom pass, and instead of using the bathroom, he went to the theater room and asked her for a pass, which he came back and presented to me and asked if he could leave rehearsal right then. Really??!! A kid came in and interrupted her class, and she wrote that pass??!!
I will clarify with my choirs that I will not be honoring passes to other classrooms during our rehearsal time. This has never been something we do, so I'm not sure why they think it's OK now. I should also add, lest anyone think that kids are trying to get out of choir in droves, that this is a very small subset of my kids who have even attempted this. We are still WORKING in choir at this point in the year, and I'm sure many would rather go sit in the theater room and do nothing rather than work.
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Post by tomocus on Apr 26, 2016 16:45:42 GMT
This is my take on students leaving your class when specifically told not to leave and taking their friends with them. ALL STUDENTS WHO LEFT WILL IMMEDIATELY BE REPORTED TO THE PRINCIPAL AS SKIPPING CLASS..
There has to be consequences for the students. I would also report the teacher. So what if the students blame you. Their attitude and participation during choir will be reflected in their grade.
Keep notes on each student you are having to deal with so when the parent shows up to complain, you can show them what you have been dealing with. You need to let the parent know that if they and their child do not wish to participate in choir, they need to go to the office and withdraw. If they do not withdraw, they will receive a failing grade for unexcused absenceand will not be able to make up the work. Thus, no problem for you, the student or the parent.
If they do not want to be in and participate in choir, they need to withdraw.
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Post by tomocus on Apr 26, 2016 16:48:35 GMT
BTW: No way would I allow them to make up the time they missed. This only means extra work for you.
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. J/k and I'm sorry you are in this position. 
.
And address it with the teacher one more time. Tell her you have no choice except go to admin if she doesn't stop. What teacher wants extra students in their room when they should be in another class??? I know I certainly didn't! 
?? 
