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Post by annaintx on Jul 31, 2014 14:20:47 GMT
I never ever participate in political threads but I am very confused. I can't post this on my FB--the war between family members would be epic. I figure we're kind of used to that around here. I've read that Boehner is going forward (with the backing of the House by a narrow margin of 225 to 201) to sue the President for not implementing parts of the ACA. Is that correct? This is where I'm confused. I thought the Republicans didn't want the ACA to go forward? So why are the suing if they didn't want the thing in the first place? I just don't understand how we've gotten to this point in our government. I really think they ALL need to go far, far away.
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Post by Merge on Jul 31, 2014 14:29:52 GMT
This is my understanding:
Having lost the battle on the ACA, Republicans are eager for it to be seen as a failure to help push voters in their direction in the midterm and presidential elections.
Obama used executive order to delay implementing some parts of the plan that seemed likely to cause problems, likely also for political reasons.
Republicans want to keep Obama's use of executive order, which they say is illegal, in the spotlight because it keeps their voters' anger toward him fresh in their minds, and are also forcing the issue because they hope implementing those parts of the plan WILL be a dismal failure and hurt voter support for the Democrats.
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Post by doxielady on Jul 31, 2014 14:32:57 GMT
I can't really answer your question, but I fear that it is just another "tit for tat" that seems to be the norm now.
I am sad that compromise has become a dirty word and reaching across the aisle to actually work on, and solve, issues is a foreign concept in our government. They all seem to be busy trying to take the other side down and slinging mud and all of us are the ultimate losers.
ETA: I think MergeLeft got it right.
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Post by rumplesnat on Jul 31, 2014 14:35:15 GMT
I hate politics and my husband and I are to the point that we are embarrassed to be republicans due to the constant bitching and moaning. I am not a fan of Obama, never have been, but have gotten to the point that I am defending the guy because he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, regardless of the situation at this point. I'm just so over the CONSTANT BITCH FEST.
I'm tired of party lines. Can't we just be Americans? Why does it have to be republican vs. democrat? There are so many variations at this point in beliefs that it just seems silly to label yourself as one or the other.
Basically, I've been forced into a corner to support President Obama because I'm sick of the constant bashing. He says the sky is blue. Someone says it's actually a shade of violet. He wants to order a pop. He's wrong because it's really soda. He has a stomach virus that results in diarrhea. Opponents say it only loose bowels. ENOUGH ALREADY!!!
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Post by annaintx on Jul 31, 2014 14:36:24 GMT
MergeLeft, thank you. That makes some sense.
I wish that the energy they are expending to "get back" at the President was being used elsewhere in a more productive fashion.
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Deleted
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Oct 8, 2024 22:27:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 14:40:12 GMT
I think the Republicans have a point. The law should have been implemented as it was written. As the effects of the law starting being felt, the administration issued orders delaying them or extending deadlines, sometimes even exempting groups like labor unions from parts of the law (specifically the reinsurance tax). It's not the executive branch's job to change the law; that task belongs to Congress. The executive branch is supposed to enforce the law, something that the president has NOT fulfilled with this law.
So basically this is a test to see if Obama overstepped his constitutional limits. I do,however, wish the Republicans had filed suit at the various times these orders were issued. It would make it seem like they cared more about the people affected by the law than about scoring political points.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 22:27:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 14:40:11 GMT
Because he's black and all Republicans (or anyone who doesn't care for Obama's policies) are racist. Oh wait...I think Merge got it right.
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Post by triplejscrapper on Jul 31, 2014 14:42:08 GMT
This is my understanding: Having lost the battle on the ACA, Republicans are eager for it to be seen as a failure to help push voters in their direction in the midterm and presidential elections. Obama used executive order to delay implementing some parts of the plan that seemed likely to cause problems, likely also for political reasons. Republicans want to keep Obama's use of executive order, which they say is illegal, in the spotlight because it keeps their voters' anger toward him fresh in their minds, and are also forcing the issue because they hope implementing those parts of the plan WILL be a dismal failure and hurt voter support for the Democrats. Exactly!!! Just a whole bunch of money wasted on all sides in the lead in to the next election where we will start the process all over again...no matter which party takes the stage of tomfoolery this go round. It's really just pathetic at this point.
I'll read these political threads sometimes-might even comment on them from time to time as well-but for the life of me-those of you that are into politics on what I would consider the "grand" scale...I don't know how you do it. It's just so exhausting. The whole lot of them act like children that need a good spanking and sent to bed with any supper.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 31, 2014 14:45:03 GMT
I find coverage in The Hill often gives a quick summary of the situation and the basic pros and cons for each side. For more detailed pros and cons, I often look to Real Clear Politics as they publish links to opinions from both sides.
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mely
Junior Member
Posts: 89
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:59 GMT
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Post by mely on Jul 31, 2014 14:49:01 GMT
Because they don't want to do real work? Remember when there was compromise? Now they are too scared to compromise lest they incite the wrath of Fox news. I don't agree with the president on a lot of stuff but the right wing pundits scare the crap out of me.
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 31, 2014 15:05:05 GMT
One thing I always find educational and that helps put things in perspective, is how the other side has often pulled the exact same thing in the past. Click the first link to get to a WSJ article describing just that. (The WSJ often restricts readership, but if you click a link from Google you can get right in.) It happens on both sides all the time.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 31, 2014 15:07:26 GMT
I find it ironic that so many on this thread are talking about compromise. What would the point of the legislature compromising if the executive branch could then choose to only implement the aspects of a law they agree with. This is a constitutional issue. The executive branch cannot nullify or delay aspects of a signed law. Although I certainly am not going to argue that the fact that actually implementing the ACA as written would be extremely unpopular and hurt Democrats in the midterm election isn't playing a role in driving the issue.
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Post by doxielady on Jul 31, 2014 15:12:47 GMT
I find it ironic that so many on this thread are talking about compromise. What would the point of the legislature compromising if the executive branch could then choose to only implement the aspects of a law they agree with. This is a constitutional issue. The executive branch cannot nullify or delay aspects of a signed law. Although I certainly am not going to argue that the fact that actually implementing the ACA as written would be extremely unpopular and hurt Democrats in the midterm election isn't playing a role in driving the issue. In my response, I was speaking in generalities, not to the specifics of this case. I mentioned that I didn't know the details in this suit.
I was talking about the general sense that NO ONE seems to want to work with anyone else that may not share their party affiliation, where in the past, working together and compromising was the norm. It's a very sad state to be in. In my opinion.
As far as this case - it's a shame we have reached this point. I just shake my head a lot these days and wish there was a magical solution.
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Post by lovetodigi on Jul 31, 2014 15:19:08 GMT
MergeLeft, thank you. That makes some sense. I wish that the energy they are expending to "get back" at the President was being used elsewhere in a more productive fashion. Not to mention the tax payer money that is being wasted on this foolish lawsuit. I think that is yet another thing that will come back and bite them on the butt.
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Post by Merge on Jul 31, 2014 15:29:33 GMT
One thing I always find educational and that helps put things in perspective, is how the other side has often pulled the exact same thing in the past. Click the first link to get to a WSJ article describing just that. (The WSJ often restricts readership, but if you click a link from Google you can get right in.) It happens on both sides all the time. True enough, and also true of the use of executive order to circumvent congress and/or for political gain. Nothing new under the sun in DC.
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pamp
Full Member
Refupea #2487
Posts: 172
Jul 1, 2014 20:14:17 GMT
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Post by pamp on Jul 31, 2014 15:30:54 GMT
Okay,up front,I am not here for a fight or lashing about my opinion. I am just going to throw it out there for what it is worth.
First of all,these politicians need to go... I don't have a solution but this is just not working. It is embarrassing to admit that the US,a so-called super power is letting our country come to this. I guess this might be considered a rant...
What is the bottom line that will be done to get "elected"? Maybe we should throw them all out,is that possible?,then make it a non paying job and put strict limits on the campaigning and election process.No more millionaire senators or congress people at all. I know,we wouldn't have a large selection if you take the $$ out of it. We are lambs being led to slaughter... it has to stop... I guess it is so big,that we average citizens can't fathom the quagmire that has developed.
I know,personally,when I see how the government is not running right now,I feel helpless.In the normal course of life,you encounter so many people who are not satisfied,would prefer another strategy,but yet ,you hear politicians saying that their constituency wants this or that. What's wrong with good clean honest voting on issues that involve the population.
Well,too much babble from me,but sign me up for the" I don't like it at all" group. Spend our money here at home and quit acting like spiteful children that are bullies in a suit.
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Post by JustCallMeMommy on Jul 31, 2014 15:48:18 GMT
I really think the executive order is being used inappropriately and not just by this President. IMO, it should be a power used in an emergency situation (a military situation when Congress is not in session or when speed is important, for instance), for situations where Congress's inactivity is not in line with the Constitution, or possibly to clarify a law in a speedy manner. It should NOT be used to overrule Congress.
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loco coco
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,662
Jun 26, 2014 16:15:45 GMT
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Post by loco coco on Jul 31, 2014 15:51:33 GMT
I think most of what Obama has done is wrong but at this point both sides are becoming a circus.
we need a 3rd party that actually has a chance, cut out this 2 sided BS controlled by $ and families and lets get something FOR THE PEOPLE
...I know, Im dreaming!
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Deleted
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Oct 8, 2024 22:27:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 15:58:04 GMT
This is a quote from an article I read this morning and I think he has a point. Where is the harm to Congress? But this guy did bring up another point about the Republican Judges. Bottom line this is a frivolous lawsuit wasting taxpayer money. A lawsuit the Republicans traditionally rail against.
"Since this suit is unprecedented, we don't know for sure how it will be received by the courts. Many legal experts think it will be quickly dismissed on the question of standing; since the House can't show any harm they've incurred because of the President's allegedly appalling behavior, they may not have the right to bring a case against him. On the other hand, we now understand that you can get Republican judges to go along with just about anything if it'll strike a blow at the hated Obama. But regardless, the thing Republicans don't seem to understand is this: This lawsuit will be a disaster for them."
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Jul 31, 2014 16:02:24 GMT
"Can someone explain to me why the House is suing Obama?" It is my understanding that they are trying to deflect their own inability to do their jobs. Current Congressional approval rating? 12.3% And that's kinda high, if you ask me.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 31, 2014 16:06:16 GMT
This is my understanding: Having lost the battle on the ACA, Republicans are eager for it to be seen as a failure to help push voters in their direction in the midterm and presidential elections. Obama used executive order to delay implementing some parts of the plan that seemed likely to cause problems, likely also for political reasons. Republicans want to keep Obama's use of executive order, which they say is illegal, in the spotlight because it keeps their voters' anger toward him fresh in their minds, and are also forcing the issue because they hope implementing those parts of the plan WILL be a dismal failure and hurt voter support for the Democrats. Yep!
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Post by *KatyCupcake* on Jul 31, 2014 16:08:33 GMT
Going around the Constitution to change a law is wrong. If changes need to be made to an existing law, there is a process established by the Constitution to make that happen. Obama used executive order instead because he wasn't going to get the support he wanted by doing things according to the Constitution.
That said, I hate the money wasted on a lawsuit. It's all one big money wasting cesspool in DC.
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Post by tiffanyannhulsey on Jul 31, 2014 16:19:23 GMT
Thanks for the simple explanation. It seems politics keeps getting more complicated and harder for me to understand lately. Maybe I'm not devious enough...oh, wait, yes I am.
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Post by annaintx on Jul 31, 2014 16:22:52 GMT
I find coverage in The Hill often gives a quick summary of the situation and the basic pros and cons for each side. For more detailed pros and cons, I often look to Real Clear Politics as they publish links to opinions from both sides. Thanks, BeckyTech! I really don't go looking online for political news because it's all so skewed one way or the other. It's so hard to find JUST THE FACTS without someone's commentary as fact.
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Post by annaintx on Jul 31, 2014 16:46:12 GMT
And I want to say HOORAY for all of us for keeping this civil.
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Post by pierkiss on Jul 31, 2014 16:56:17 GMT
These assholes need to stop with their epic pissing match and get on with the actual work of running the country. I am so sick of this bullshit.
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Post by Katie on Jul 31, 2014 17:00:30 GMT
Okay,up front,I am not here for a fight or lashing about my opinion. I am just going to throw it out there for what it is worth. First of all,these politicians need to go... I don't have a solution but this is just not working. It is embarrassing to admit that the US,a so-called super power is letting our country come to this. I guess this might be considered a rant... What is the bottom line that will be done to get "elected"? Maybe we should throw them all out,is that possible?,then make it a non paying job and put strict limits on the campaigning and election process.No more millionaire senators or congress people at all. I know,we wouldn't have a large selection if you take the $$ out of it. We are lambs being led to slaughter... it has to stop... I guess it is so big,that we average citizens can't fathom the quagmire that has developed. I know,personally,when I see how the government is not running right now,I feel helpless.In the normal course of life,you encounter so many people who are not satisfied,would prefer another strategy,but yet ,you hear politicians saying that their constituency wants this or that. What's wrong with good clean honest voting on issues that involve the population. Well,too much babble from me,but sign me up for the" I don't like it at all" group. Spend our money here at home and quit acting like spiteful children that are bullies in a suit. I'm sitting n the bench with you!!
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Post by BeckyTech on Jul 31, 2014 17:03:18 GMT
True enough, and also true of the use of executive order to circumvent congress and/or for political gain. Nothing new under the sun in DC. Ha! Ain't that the truth! (And my mom would roll over in her grave that I used the word "ain't" but sometimes it just seems appropriate. )
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Post by Skypea on Jul 31, 2014 17:22:19 GMT
Going around the Constitution to change a law is wrong. If changes need to be made to an existing law, there is a process established by the Constitution to make that happen. Obama used executive order instead because he wasn't going to get the support he wanted by doing things according to the Constitution. basically this. BO has done this over and over again. The SC has overruled him numerous times already (maybe 12 times?). Most recently over his 'recess' appointments - that weren't made during a recess. He has continually broken the law. And watch, he'll do it again on immigration. He (and his admin) have known for some time about all those that would be coming over the border - as the result of another one of his law changes (or making a new law).
there is a division between the 3 parts of our gov for a reason. The Executive branch does NOT make law. Well, not in the past. They are supposed to enforce law. All of the laws, not just the ones they like. That's a new BO thing and so many Americans don't seem to care... BO knows no bounds. Don't think we are still a democratic republic.
No one has heard John Turley on this? He is a dem law professor. He has testified at some committee hearings - and not in support of what is going on in our Executive Branch.
Others in our gov (like some in congress) are set up to do oversight on some of these things (like the IRS). And the dems scream loud when these people do their oversight (unless it was over a rep). With the IRS that isn't surprising since they are part of Treasury and donate tons of $ to the dem party.
It's amazing to me that so few know what IS going on in our government. You are in for a big shock down the road soon.
Benghazzi, IRS, F and F, immigration, EPA (overtaking water rights +), the DOJ, DOD to name a few. You do know now don't you that the bad guys in Benghazzi moved in next to our embassy (whatever bldg.) maybe the yr prior to the attack and Stevens and others requested help, security etc and were told no? I don't think a day goes by that something new like this isn't made public (well not thru BO news media). How about the new Lerner emails? not even a smidgeon of a problem with these new emails? And they aren't even the ones being hidden in a 'dead drive'. The IRS needs to answer to 2 judges in the next few days regarding that drive - that will be interesting.
Who isn't willing to work with the other side? Does it sound to you like BO is? Reid? Nasty, nasty comments, name calling... The house has passed 350 some bills (many bipartisan) and they don't get past Reid's desk. No discussion on them, no vote.
How about the non transparency on these illegals? They've known about it. Even now they won't notify a state prior to dumping off a bus or plane load of them. Just let 'em out on their own in a strange place (like they did in Phx - in our heat!). No heads up for the schools (that your taxes will pay for - expect prop tx to go up). No warning for health officials (border agents say few get any medical attention) and some have things like TB and swine flu. Not to mention the lice and scabies. Even congressmen/women were barred from checking out those detention centers and when they did get in they couldn't take pics, asks questions. Medical help were told they'd lose their jobs and possibly be arrested if they said anything. Same with border agents.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 22:27:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 17:24:47 GMT
I find coverage in The Hill often gives a quick summary of the situation and the basic pros and cons for each side. For more detailed pros and cons, I often look to Real Clear Politics as they publish links to opinions from both sides. Thanks for providing these non biased links BeckyTech, but they're both for The Hill.
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