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Post by disneypal on May 18, 2016 3:47:38 GMT
No, and I don't see how that could have even be thought as racist.
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Post by chaosisapony on May 18, 2016 3:49:15 GMT
Doesn't sound racist or insensitive to me.
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AllieC
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by AllieC on May 18, 2016 4:17:55 GMT
I don't think it was offensive but then I am a white middle aged woman who would never be described that way. It certainly isn't used as a derogatory term in Australia moreso a compliment or descriptor and we don't tend to use "exotic" for strippers etc. I think intent does have a lot to do with it too. Sometimes we can say things that we don't realise might be offensive to others. I would maybe say something to her and apologise for your verbal clumsiness  |
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Post by AussieMeg on May 18, 2016 4:44:03 GMT
Thanks everyone for your views, I appreciate it. I don't think it's Racist by definition but I would say "It was wrong to use the work exotic". I am Indian. Personally - I loathe when someone uses that word to describe me or my name. I just don't like it. As others have stated - it's not a big deal if you are white. For me exotic is not a compliment. You (general you) might think it's a compliment. But it is not. And several of my friends who are from other Asian countries agree with me. And in my company, you have to take a course on ethnic and cultural differences once a year (mandatory training) because we have offices all over the world. And I kid you not - they have this word/fresh of the boat and others as examples to never use . A fruit is exotic, I am not. Thank you in particular for your reply, because it's helped me understand it from a perspective other than "white girl". And truth be told, if she was Indian rather than Sri Lankan I would still have used the word exotic. One of the other girls in our team is Indian, I'd be interested to hear her thoughts. But I do think exotic is a term we (meaning Americans, especially white Americans, and maybe it's different in Australia) apply to darker people. We wouldn't ever say the new girl from Sweden or Ireland was exotic. It's always someone from Asia or Africa or the Middle East that we would describe as exotic. And for that reason, I would try to avoid using the term at work or to people's faces. ![:D]() You're spot on. I can't imagine using the word exotic to describe a fair haired and fair skinned person. I definitely associate "exotic" with people who are gorgeous and have dark hair and skin, and I have only ever mean it in a totally complimentary way. BUT.... now that I know others don't see it that way I won't use it again. (Not that it's really ever come up in conversation before.) From now on I will only associate the word with fruit! Oh, and I just knew there would be some people who got sidetracked by whether either of those names would be considered exotic. It's really not the point of my post. |
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Post by shaniam on May 18, 2016 5:07:07 GMT
I wouldn't have thought it meant anything more than "more interesting" than Susan.
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Post by gar on May 18, 2016 8:13:12 GMT
By describing her name as exotic I'm sure you just meant 'less ordinary', so I don't think you were intentionally offending her but as others have pointed out, it can be perceived that way. I hope you can straighten it all out easily  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 9:44:25 GMT
When I hear the term, I immediately think "beautiful." Not foreign or unnatural. So I don't think it's racist or culturally insensitive.
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Post by mlynn on May 18, 2016 10:09:59 GMT
I need your honest opinions on whether something I said at work was racist. The Peas are nothing if not honest – sometimes brutally so! – and I know you’ll let me have it if what I said was wrong. A new girl started work here a couple of weeks ago. She is Sri Lankan and absolutely gorgeous and very sweet. When we interviewed her I told my boss that she'd be a great fit to our team. (I hope you don’t mind but I’m going to put the next part of my post that includes names in a spoiler so it is not easily searchable.) When I interviewed her I thought her name was Suzanne but when I asked my boss later she told me it was actually Susan. So for the last 2 weeks we’ve all been calling her Susan. Then yesterday we found out her name is actually Suzanne – she was too embarrassed to tell us we’d been calling her by the wrong name!
When she told me yesterday that her name is actually Suzanne (after I asked her) I said something along the lines of “Oh I thought it was Suzanne at first but then I was told it was Susan. Suzanne sounds more exotic and suits you much better.”
Today one of my colleagues mentioned to me that another colleague told her what I’d said. She then said to me “Don’t you think that was a bit racist?” I replied that no, I didn’t. My colleague then just shrugged and said “OK then” and walked away. So what do you think? Racist? Culturally insensitive? Just plain stupid? Complimentary? Sock it to me! I'm going to be out for an hour or two, I will check back in later. TIA! Nope, not racist. Nope, not culturally insensitive.
Susan is kind of plain Jane. Suzanne is much more interesting. Race/nationality has nothing to do with it.
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hannahruth
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
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Post by hannahruth on May 18, 2016 10:15:32 GMT
No I don't think you said anything wrong - certainly not racist IMOH
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tuesdaysgone
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Post by tuesdaysgone on May 18, 2016 10:21:06 GMT
I don't find the term racist. In the context you described to us, I took it to mean "unusual."
We live in a culture where words are heavily scrutinized for ulterior meaning.
Hopefully you continue to have a great working relationship with her.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 10:43:02 GMT
I would have said it wasn't derogatory until some people came on and explained why they didn't like being called exotic. Learn something here every day. I'm now in the camp with those who only call fruit exotic. Although around here, strippers are called exotic dancers, so I'll probably use it there too.
I'm sure you only meant it in a good way, and most likely she accepted it in that vein.
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Post by mari on May 18, 2016 10:59:37 GMT
I haven't read the responses.
I'm not sure that this board will give you much perspective on how that statement may be interpreted by a non-white person, just given the board demographics. If you're looking to be told the statement is just fine and complimentary, you're probably in the right place.
Words like "exotic" are often seen as microaggressions. The phrase basically means "you are different, you do not belong here". It places a person in a category of "other". It is a word often used to describe foods, animals, stripers, or other "unusual" things. Would you call a blonde-haired, blue-eyed woman "exotic", even if she was from a different country? Probably not.
As a person who has been called exotic, I don't see it as a compliment.
It's similar to being asked to explain where you are "really" from, which is just another way to say that a person is being viewed as an outsider.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 11:06:22 GMT
So neither of the 2 colleagues that are so concerned are actually Suzanne?
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Post by jackie on May 18, 2016 11:25:06 GMT
I definitely wouldn't think of exotic as being offensive. In fact, I think of it as very complimentary and would LOVE to be referred to as exotic. But after reading prapea's comments, I will certainly look at it differently and would be careful not to use it to describe a person. I'm honestly not sure I would have anyway, only because I try to be so careful using any words that are tied to a person's race or ethnicity.
I personally wouldn't worry about it if I were you though. You meant it in the best way. You seem like such a nice person and I'm sure this woman could tell that. If you get to know her better, maybe down the road you could discuss it. For now, I would leave it lie and not make a big deal of it.
I guess many of us have learned something.
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Country Ham
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Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on May 18, 2016 11:35:35 GMT
Not racist, but not appropriate in the work place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 12:07:08 GMT
I don't think you are racist, and I don't think you meant it in any kind of an offensive manner. But I do think exotic is a term we (meaning Americans, especially white Americans, and maybe it's different in Australia) apply to darker people. We wouldn't ever say the new girl from Sweden or Ireland was exotic. It's always someone from Asia or Africa or the Middle East that we would describe as exotic. And for that reason, I would try to avoid using the term at work or to people's faces. And now I suppose I've talked myself out of ever using that damned word again. Thanks a lot.  Completely agree with this. I too would never say exotic to about a Swedish person. I consider exotic to mean someone of an olive or darker skin and tremendously beautiful. |
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sweetpeasmom
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Post by sweetpeasmom on May 18, 2016 12:16:32 GMT
I don't see anything wrong with what you said.
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Post by just PEAchy on May 18, 2016 12:27:12 GMT
I don't think you said anything wrong, I don't find it racist or insensitive. However, after reading some of the replies here that people who are called exotic don't like it, I would not say it in the future. Hopefully, you can all move past it, I don't think you intentionally meant to hurt anyone and hope your colleagues see that, too.
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Post by fruitysuet on May 18, 2016 12:34:13 GMT
My name is Suzanne. I am white British. I wouldn't take offence at your comment. However, I don't think exotic is quite the right word - it's a name of French origin and France, to me isn't exotic. I think the name is just more interesting and pretty than Susan (which my dad wanted to call me) which is probably more along the lines of what you meant.
ETA I also agree exotic to me would mean relating to tropical areas, as such it does have ethnic connotations but not racist ones. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 12:40:20 GMT
We live in a culture where words are heavily scrutinized for ulterior meaning. How right you are. Before long we'll all need to consult a dictionary to find out ALL the different meanings of words before we use them incase someone will be offended. The English language is full of those kind of words that have many different meanings depending on the context that particular word is used. I understand what you meant between Susan and Suzanne OP. There's something that is more alluring( I'm sure someone will not like that word either) about the name Suzanne than there is about plain old Susan. I don't think using the word exotic to try and differentiate between the two names is racist at all. Besides you were referring to the name not the person and the name does have a different "ring" to it IMO. |
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 18, 2016 13:05:46 GMT
'Exotic' is a classic microaggression. It's not a word I would ever use to describe a person of colour.
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Post by boatymcboatface on May 18, 2016 13:19:00 GMT
We live in a culture where words are heavily scrutinized for ulterior meaning. How right you are. Before long we'll all need to consult a dictionary to find out ALL the different meanings of words before we use them incase someone will be offended. The English language is full of those kind of words that have many different meanings depending on the context that particular word is used. I understand what you meant between Susan and Suzanne OP. There's something that is more alluring( I'm sure someone will not like that word either) about the name Suzanne than there is about plain old Susan. I don't think using the word exotic to try and differentiate between the two names is racist at all. Besides you were referring to the name not the person and the name does have a different "ring" to it IMO. The idea that we should consider how other people experience our words and might need to speak thougtfully about people doesnt bother me. I'm old enough to remember the time when boy was the word that was used to demean a black person. What's wrong with the word boy right, it's just s word, no it was a word that was used to say I have power over you nasty loaded racist word. I grew up with racism and words were a big part of it. I think we should be better than our racist history and take other people's experiences seriously and that does include language. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on May 18, 2016 14:04:38 GMT
This is something I never would have thought to be offensive. Now after reading peas responses, I can see how it could be taken the wrong way. Note to self: avoid describing people as exotic.
I so enjoy the peas perspective when they make me think about situations different ways. |
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Post by crazy4scraps on May 18, 2016 14:08:03 GMT
When I hear the term, I immediately think "beautiful." Not foreign or unnatural. So I don't think it's racist or culturally insensitive. Me too. Beautiful in a striking, out of the ordinary way. Special. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 14:16:16 GMT
How right you are. Before long we'll all need to consult a dictionary to find out ALL the different meanings of words before we use them incase someone will be offended. I understand what you meant between Susan and Suzanne OP. There's something that is more alluring( I'm sure someone will not like that word either) about the name Suzanne than there is about plain old Susan. I don't think using the word exotic to try and differentiate between the two names is racist at all. Besides you were referring to the name not the person and the name does have a different "ring" to it IMO. The idea that we should consider how other people experience our words and might need to speak thougtfully about people doesnt bother me. I'm old enough to remember the time when boy was the word that was used to demean a black person. What's wrong with the word boy right, it's just s word, no it was a word that was used to say I have power over you nasty loaded racist word. I grew up with racism and words were a big part of it. I think we should be better than our racist history and take other people's experiences seriously and that does include language. And as I say......It's all in the context of how you use words not the actual word which is what I said in my previous post. As an example using the word boy as in " that boy over there" is very different to saying " come here boy" Now the latter is unacceptable to any male whatever the colour of their skin. Not only has it been used as you have mentioned towards a black person is has also, over time, been used as a class distinction between the upper class and the lower class. We seem to be going off track here a bit. AussieMeg didn't call the girl herself exotic she was referring to her name and trying to differentiate between the plain Susan name to the more appealing ( to some) name of Suzanne. Exotic can also mean attractive ( according to the Oxford English Dictionary)..... so in that scenario what Meg was saying was that the name Suzanne was a more attractive name than Susan if you like. |
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RedSquirrelUK
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,077
Location: The UK's beautiful West Country
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Post by RedSquirrelUK on May 18, 2016 14:26:57 GMT
I'm Caucasian and have been described in Singapore as exotic. I was surprised, but in no way offended. Exotic means unusual, striking. It is never derogatory.
Her name (and bang goes your desire to make it non-searchable, since so many people have quoted it!) is uncommon in her country, and therefore probably IS exotic to her compatriots.
I don't think your comment was racist one bit. The worst I can say about it is that it was slightly over-compensatory for making the mistake over her correct name. But I think that as she settles in and gets to know you all, she'll take it as you intended it to be taken - as a compliment.
Don't feel bad about it.
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Post by Darcy Collins on May 18, 2016 14:28:46 GMT
The idea that we should consider how other people experience our words and might need to speak thougtfully about people doesnt bother me. I'm old enough to remember the time when boy was the word that was used to demean a black person. What's wrong with the word boy right, it's just s word, no it was a word that was used to say I have power over you nasty loaded racist word. I grew up with racism and words were a big part of it. I think we should be better than our racist history and take other people's experiences seriously and that does include language. And as I say......It's all in the context of how you use words not the actual word which is what I said in my previous post. As an example using the word boy as in " that boy over there" is very different to saying " come here boy" Now the latter is unacceptable to any male whatever the colour of their skin. Not only has it been used as you have mentioned towards a black person is has also, over time, been used as a class distinction between the upper class and the lower class. We seem to be going off track here a bit. AussieMeg didn't call the girl herself exotic she was referring to her name and trying to differentiate between the plain Susan name to the more appealing ( to some) name of Suzanne. Exotic can also mean attractive ( according to the Oxford English Dictionary)..... so in that scenario what Meg was saying was that the name Suzanne was a more attractive name than Susan if you like. But Meg added that the exotic name "suited her better" ie she's unusual. I don't for a minute think the OP meant it in an offensive manner at all. And it's not that exotic is derogatory - I do believe most people think of it as beautiful - but UNUSUALLY or DIFFERENTLY beautiful. Which is why I've had more than a few friends say they don't like it. |
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georgiapea
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Post by georgiapea on May 18, 2016 14:33:16 GMT
I can't imagine the word 'exotic' being taken as anything but a great compliment. Suzanne is a more elite treatment of Susan. I'm glad your new coworker has let everyone know she's really a Suzanne.
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Post by ~summer~ on May 18, 2016 14:36:56 GMT
When I hear the term, I immediately think "beautiful." Not foreign or unnatural. So I don't think it's racist or culturally insensitive. Me too. Beautiful in a striking, out of the ordinary way. Special. Even if that was the way I took it I would not want to be described that way at work. I'm surprised by the number of people who think it's totally ok |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 15:17:01 GMT
Me too. Beautiful in a striking, out of the ordinary way. Special. Even if that was the way I took it I would not want to be described that way at work. I'm surprised by the number of people who think it's totally ok Ok, putting it that way, then I can see the whole point. The word itself is not racist, nor offensive. But I can now see where it may be inappropriate at the workplace. I didn't see it as anything other than a compliment. But when we had the discussion of carblovers' boss making inappropriate comments regarding her weight, I had made the statement that he did not have the right to describe her physical attributes. What he said was demeaning and offensive. What aussiemeg said was not, and I believe she in no way, shape or form, meant it in any thing other than a compliment. However, it was still inappropriate in the workplace. But I hate that this is what we have come to. Unable to give someone a compliment without it being misconstrued as offensive or racist. |
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