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Post by crimsoncat05 on May 18, 2016 15:32:44 GMT
this is the definition I think of when referring to a person as exotic:
2.
strikingly unusual or strange in effect or appearance:
an exotic hairstyle.
Exotic means 'striking' and eye-catching to me. At least that's how I would mean it and I think that's probably what you meant, as well. So to me, that's not racist.
ETA: "Would you call a blonde-haired, blue-eyed woman "exotic", even if she was from a different country? "
^^^ yes, I actually would, if she had an unusual hairstyle, outfit, etc. Exotic isn't a word I use often- if at all- but the way I define the word has nothing to do with hair color or eye color. It's something about the whole 'look' of the person.
I didn't realize that some people don't like the word but that's not how I would mean it if I DID happen to use it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 15:45:18 GMT
And as I say......It's all in the context of how you use words not the actual word which is what I said in my previous post. As an example using the word boy as in " that boy over there" is very different to saying " come here boy" Now the latter is unacceptable to any male whatever the colour of their skin. Not only has it been used as you have mentioned towards a black person is has also, over time, been used as a class distinction between the upper class and the lower class. We seem to be going off track here a bit. AussieMeg didn't call the girl herself exotic she was referring to her name and trying to differentiate between the plain Susan name to the more appealing ( to some) name of Suzanne. Exotic can also mean attractive ( according to the Oxford English Dictionary)..... so in that scenario what Meg was saying was that the name Suzanne was a more attractive name than Susan if you like. But Meg added that the exotic name "suited her better" ie she's unusual. I don't for a minute think the OP meant it in an offensive manner at all. And it's not that exotic is derogatory - I do believe most people think of it as beautiful - but UNUSUALLY or DIFFERENTLY beautiful. Which is why I've had more than a few friends say they don't like it. I took it that the more " attractive" name of Suzanne suited her better from the description Meg put in her opening post of her initial opinion of her and with all due respects I don't think Meg or anyone else in Australian would have the opinion that Sri Lankan nationals are unusual to see in Australia considering the close proximity of both countries to each other.
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RosieKat
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Post by RosieKat on May 18, 2016 15:51:19 GMT
I think the connotation of the word is similar to the connotation of the word 'ethnic.' There is nothing wrong with the word itself, or with its actual definition, and often there are no ulterior motives of the person who uses it. However, both exotic and ethnic have the association of meaning something "not quite up to the norm, different from what we're used to." They aren't (generally) intended to be insulting, but they generally still are, at least a tiny bit.
Not saying that you were trying to imply anything negative, it's just not a good choice of words.
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 18, 2016 15:57:28 GMT
On one hand, we have a number of white women who don't believe that calling a woman of colour 'exotic' is racist. On the other, we have a number of women of colour who believe that it is - Is exotic a racist term Knowing that, do you feel comfortable calling a woman of colour exotic?
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Post by crimsoncat05 on May 18, 2016 15:58:12 GMT
For me, someone who comes to mind for the word 'exotic' is Iris Apfel. (and she's not Indian, or Sri Lankan, or anything else like that.) She's pretty exotic / unusual in her mode of dress / accessorizing. THIS is what I think of when I hear the word exotic: something very different from the norm. Not just a particular ethnicity or part of the world.
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Post by Darcy Collins on May 18, 2016 16:06:05 GMT
But Meg added that the exotic name "suited her better" ie she's unusual. I don't for a minute think the OP meant it in an offensive manner at all. And it's not that exotic is derogatory - I do believe most people think of it as beautiful - but UNUSUALLY or DIFFERENTLY beautiful. Which is why I've had more than a few friends say they don't like it. I took it that the more " attractive" name of Suzanne suited her better from the description Meg put in her opening post of her initial opinion of her and with all due respects I don't think Meg or anyone else in Australian would have the opinion that Sri Lankan nationals are unusual to see in Australia considering the close proximity of both countries to each other. I never said they were unusual to see - but they are certainly a minority in Australia - and as Meg has already noted - she wouldn't have used the adjective to describe a fair skinned beauty - so again - it does highlight her ethnic difference and however well intended wasn't appropriate in the workplace.
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scorpeao
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Post by scorpeao on May 18, 2016 16:06:24 GMT
Your friend is overly sensitive. What you said was totally fine
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Post by boatymcboatface on May 18, 2016 16:12:00 GMT
On one hand, we have a number of white women who don't believe that calling a woman of colour 'exotic' is racist. On the other, we have a number of women of colour who believe that it is - Is exotic a racist term Knowing that, do you feel comfortable calling a woman of colour exotic? I did a similar Google search to yours and discovered the etymology of the word means foreign, outside, other. Like I said I grew up with racism Louisiana is probably still one of the most racist places there is in this country. I am an old white lady grew up poor in the south with mostly black and Vietnamese people. Just makes me feel differently about racism after growing up with it the way I did, was very overt then and maybe less so now but makes me still feel like how we talked about people then was wrong and we can do better. Maybe it isn't as overt as it was when I was growing up but it is still there and still an issue. Growing up if you said a Vietnamese woman was exotic looking you we're saying something about her that meant she had some kind of mystique or sexual appeal about her, probably you were not saying she was smart or capable or even that she was pretty but probably you were stereotyping her in some way. That is my context for that word so that is why I feel the way I do about it. I don't think that's what the first poster was really doing at all just understand why people would think it was inappropriate in some general sense.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 16:23:34 GMT
On one hand, we have a number of white women who don't believe that calling a woman of colour 'exotic' is racist. On the other, we have a number of women of colour who believe that it is - Is exotic a racist term Knowing that, do you feel comfortable calling a woman of colour exotic? I think it's easy for white women to claim something isn't racist because we've never been on the other side of it. Suzanne is such a common name that I don't think saying that it's 'exotic' holds up either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 16:30:45 GMT
Speaking as a "non-white" person, I have to say I've heard all kinds of racist terms describing me or my friends and neighbors. Definitely still today. Very offensive and hearing someone described as exotic? Very benign. I'll take being called exotic over what I was actually called growing up, any day.
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Post by lucyg on May 18, 2016 16:33:52 GMT
@dottyscrapper said:
And yet ... Meg did choose to mention this woman is Sri Lankan. Different. Exactly what the term exotic means.
(Meg, again ... I don't think you were being racist or offensive in any way. But exotic-ness does refer to different-ness, that's all.)
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Post by prapea on May 18, 2016 17:07:41 GMT
I am a long time lurker but I read this board daily. Meg - I really don't think you meant it in a negative way. As far as not able to compliment someone without them being offended ...not sure what I can say? I am not going to be huffing and puffing about it. I just wouldn't like it.  and it is definitely not racist. Personally - If I am at work - "Good job in getting that bug fixed" is a compliment. "Your name is exotic" is not.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on May 18, 2016 17:21:30 GMT
@dottyscrapper said: And yet ... Meg did choose to mention this woman is Sri Lankan. Different. Exactly what the term exotic means. (Meg, again ... I don't think you were being racist or offensive in any way. But exotic-ness does refer to different-ness, that's all.) yes, but she mentioned that only in the context of having this discussion, I would assume.
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valleyview
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Post by valleyview on May 18, 2016 17:23:49 GMT
I will respectfully say to @dottyscrapper, that here in the southern US, that to say "that boy over there" would be problematic also.
I think that this conversation is a lot like the weight thread. It's not about political correctness. We are all familiar with only our own life. With a more diverse workplace, we all need to be aware of the negative connotations that come along with our own descriptions and categorization of others.
In my family, I was the only sibling with brown eyes. Then I married into a blue-eyed family. I was constantly told that I was "different". WTH? Let's just try to stop labeling according to physical features and subjective terminology. It's just right to treat people in the manner that you expect to be treated.
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Post by mellyw on May 18, 2016 17:42:33 GMT
I don't think you are racist, and I don't think you meant it in any kind of an offensive manner. But I do think exotic is a term we (meaning Americans, especially white Americans, and maybe it's different in Australia) apply to darker people. We wouldn't ever say the new girl from Sweden or Ireland was exotic. It's always someone from Asia or Africa or the Middle East that we would describe as exotic. And for that reason, I would try to avoid using the term at work or to people's faces. And now I suppose I've talked myself out of ever using that damned word again. Thanks a lot. I'll be the outlier then. I've been called exotic looking before & I am white as a ghost. I've always taken it as I believe people mean, they can't identify my ethnicity. I've never taken offense, I'm well aware I have a strange mix of features that makes people curious. And I'm the only one in my family who has this look. I have red hair, pale, pale freckled skin, with Asian eyes & cheekbones. Take away the red hair & you'd swear I was Asian. I lived in Japan & got second looks all the time. It's weird because we know our heritage very well, I'm German, Irish & English. I happen to have Epicanthic fold that came from somewhere is our heritage, but I'm the only one. Funny how genes work. While I'm not offended by it. I would certainly be careful with saying it to someone else, because I know some may take offense.
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theshyone
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Post by theshyone on May 18, 2016 17:54:03 GMT
Would you have said exactly the same thing in exactly the same way to a fellow Aussie?, a Canadian? An Irish?, etc etc. If the answer is yes then its not.
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 18, 2016 18:02:49 GMT
Would you have said exactly the same thing in exactly the same way to a fellow Aussie?, a Canadian? An Irish?, etc etc. If the answer is yes then its not. I have heard white women referred to as exotic before but invariably they had some physical trait (almond-shaped eyes, for example) that was racially atypical.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on May 18, 2016 18:23:35 GMT
On one hand, we have a number of white women who don't believe that calling a woman of colour 'exotic' is racist. On the other, we have a number of women of colour who believe that it is - Is exotic a racist term Knowing that, do you feel comfortable calling a woman of colour exotic? I think it's easy for white women to claim something isn't racist because we've never been on the other side of it. Suzanne is such a common name that I don't think saying that it's 'exotic' holds up either. Based on what Meg stated I don't think Suzanne is a common name in Australia. I think as others have said, what the women on this board think is not really the point. What Suzanne felt about what you said is important. I don't think commenting on how someone looks, or even his or her "sweetness" is really appropriate in the workplace, the ability to work well with the team, to fit into the culture, experience in doing the job, value they can add, those things matter. If you focus on the person in relationship to the job, you will find the waters much easier to navigate. When we were hiring teachers for my daughters school. The Ex. Director wanted to hire a particular counselor, who she described multiple times as "so stinking cute" and said the kids would love her. Two years in the kids despise her. She maybe "so stinking cute" but she completely alienates the kids she is meant to be helping. She still has her job, despite being terrible at it, I can't help but wonder if it is because she is "so stinking cute". It was very unprofessional of the EX. Dir to describe her in such a way when advocating to hire her. I think when we are in professional situation we need to ensure we are using professional language. Meg I don't think you intended to be unprofessional or insensitive, if it were me, I would offer to take her out for a coffee, sincerely apologize and put the situation behind you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 18:46:53 GMT
I will respectfully say to @dottyscrapper , that here in the southern US, that to say "that boy over there" would be problematic also. You're kidding right? So if someone asks you " who does this ball belong to" and you're in a public park with people/children around what do you tell them if you know that the ball belongs to " that boy over there" but you don't know his name, gesturing to where the boy who owns the ball is standing.
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PLurker
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Post by PLurker on May 18, 2016 18:52:15 GMT
I would have been fine with that but everyone has different life experiences and words that hold power to them. Not everyone is aware of everyone else's. I like to consider the intent and I think AussieMeg had no negative/racist intent so I would hope it was taken that way. I would have taken it as Meg meant, but someone with another point of view may not have immediately be aware of complimentary intent. I also believe when "you know better, you do better" so if I found it may be considered offensive to some I would put that in my memory bank for future use- or non-use in this instant.
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valleyview
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Post by valleyview on May 18, 2016 19:09:07 GMT
I will respectfully say to @dottyscrapper , that here in the southern US, that to say "that boy over there" would be problematic also. You're kidding right? So if someone asks you " who does this ball belong to" and you're in a public park with people/children around what do you tell them if you know that the ball belongs to " that boy over there" but you don't know his name, gesturing to where the boy who owns the ball is standing. No, I'm not kidding. If there is a dark skinned child, it is always best to avoid that word.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 19:16:30 GMT
You're kidding right? So if someone asks you " who does this ball belong to" and you're in a public park with people/children around what do you tell them if you know that the ball belongs to " that boy over there" but you don't know his name, gesturing to where the boy who owns the ball is standing. No, I'm not kidding. If there is a dark skinned child, it is always best to avoid that word. So what would you call a male 7/8/9/10 or whatever age, year old who owned that ball as per my post
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valleyview
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Post by valleyview on May 18, 2016 19:18:13 GMT
No, I'm not kidding. If there is a dark skinned child, it is always best to avoid that word. So what would you call a male 7/8/9/10 or whatever age, year old who owned that ball as per my post In certain areas, it could be misconstrued.
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 18, 2016 19:23:59 GMT
No, I'm not kidding. If there is a dark skinned child, it is always best to avoid that word. So what would you call a male 7/8/9/10 or whatever age, year old who owned that ball as per my post The child/kid over there in the red/blue/purple shirt?
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loco coco
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Post by loco coco on May 18, 2016 19:27:32 GMT
not at all
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Post by STBC on May 18, 2016 19:31:40 GMT
Racist? No. Odd? Yes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 19:46:09 GMT
So what would you call a male 7/8/9/10 or whatever age, year old who owned that ball as per my post In certain areas, it could be misconstrued. That doesn't answer my question though. What do you use instead of the word boy? ETA It's OK I've got the answer from a previous poster.
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valleyview
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Post by valleyview on May 18, 2016 19:52:20 GMT
Yes, use descriptors.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on May 18, 2016 19:55:06 GMT
yes, but boy IS a descriptor! What if he was the only boy in a group of girls and they were all dressed in the same outfits (school uniforms, perhaps)? Then, being a boy is the only differentiating factor. Sometimes a word IS really JUST a word.
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Post by peanuttle on May 18, 2016 19:56:49 GMT
um, no, not at all.
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