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Post by JBeans on Jun 5, 2016 1:58:05 GMT
I'm so glad to see some of these latter posts. It gives me hope. I understand what you are saying, Lauren. Aside from the heart of the topic, neither is a good choice. They are both terrible choices. If I could vote, I'd vote for Pedro.
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Post by lisae on Jun 5, 2016 1:59:44 GMT
My husband and I almost always vote for different candidates at least at the state and national level. We had to accept that about each other from the start. It used to bother us more than it does now. We actually enjoy watching and discussing politics though this year we both wish we had different choices.
We both have similar views on money and I think that makes our marriage much easier.
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paget
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,039
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:39 GMT
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Post by paget on Jun 5, 2016 2:50:08 GMT
The core belief that is important to us both is our faith- Christianity in our case. Our politics often align based on our core beliefs but sometimes don't and we don't care about that. dh and I both identity as republicans- but we don't hold all the same beliefs politically and that's ok. For instance, when Washington had gay marriage on the ballot, I voted for it and he did not. We both understood why each other voted the way we did and that was that. This year, dh has favored trump over other candidates because he feels "nothing else he worked maybe he will do something different." At the moment he is really bummed because he says trump is just so rude, racist, etc and he is disappointed (until now he hang seemed not to see it?!). Anyway, I have probably resigned myself to writing in a vote and dh will most likely still vote for trump. Whatever. Not a cause for divorce or concern.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jun 5, 2016 3:11:24 GMT
For me, it isn't necessarily that my husband voting for a Republican would be a deal breaker. It is Donald Trump specifically. I don't see him to be an upstanding human being. At all. And I question the core values and beliefs of anyone that can say he is worthy to be President of the United States. It isn't his political beliefs. It is his beliefs about other people and how he chooses to express them. How he treats others. If someone is ok with that, then I don't think they are any different than Trump.
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Post by originalvanillabean on Jun 5, 2016 3:14:08 GMT
I can't imagine the way my DH votes being a deal breaker. Seriously? I just can't wrap my head around that. We disagree and have great discussions but in the end it is a personal choice. If he voted for someone I dislike, I would love to talk about it to figure out why but that's it.
Trust, cheating....now those are deal breakers.
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Post by peasapie on Jun 5, 2016 3:23:53 GMT
I'm not sure I believe in deal breakers. For example, people often say that if their spouse cheated, that would be a deal breaker. But having been in that position, I say you don't know until you face it. That applies to many things.
I can say that certain things would affect my opinion of the person. Being rude and unkind to others would bother me. Lying, cheating, stealing. Laziness. I am pretty sure I would gradually lose any possible respect for the person if those were ongoing issues.
Politics wouldn't be an issue. People have a right to disagree.
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Post by Tamhugh on Jun 5, 2016 3:29:45 GMT
My DH and I have never been on the same page politically and that doesn't matter. Most of both families are conservatives. Both of my kids have a lot of friends who hold different political and religious views from them. However, a few weeks ago, DS#1 was set up on a blind date by some high school friends. He was home for the weekend, so when he came in, I asked him how the date went. He said she was cute, nice, and seemed like a fun girl. I asked him if he planned to ask her out again and he said "absolutely not. The first thing she told me about herself was that she loves Donald Trump." He said it normally wouldn't matter so much to him, but that was just a huge red flag to him.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Jun 5, 2016 3:32:19 GMT
I don't believe in deal breakers.I believe in context and circumstance. From there I move forward. Regardless of the issue. Even cheating. For myself.
That being said if my husband ever hit one of our children or harmed them in amy way with intention I would leave him so fast his head would spin and I would press charges.
Politics is not worth ruining a marriage.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Jun 5, 2016 3:47:37 GMT
When I read your thread title I couldn't think of anything solid right at that moment. But reading your post I agree about integrity. For both dh and I integrity is very important to us.
Probably cheating too, because of the lack of integrity that goes along with that.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,015
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Jun 5, 2016 11:58:08 GMT
Since I didn't get any real response on Lauren's other thread on this same topic, I'll ask here as well. Why are concerns about Donald Trump's racism, misogyny, anti-Muslim rhetoric, promotion of violence and war crimes and mocking the disabled being discussed and dismissed as though it's a mere difference in political ideology?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 5, 2016 12:44:49 GMT
As many others have already stated, to me, supporting Trump is not about politics, it's about core values and what you do and don't believe in and/or will stand for. IMO, there's not much of anything about Trump-the man or the candidate-that is political. I don't think he's running because he cares about this country or even because he has any real political views. I have never heard him articulate any real, coherent political stance on any issue. I watched at least 2 of the R debates, and could not identify one single solitary political stance. He has flip-flopped all over the place, MULTIPLE times, on issues and even what party he supports or belongs to. IMO, he doesn't really give a rat's ass about politics, policy, etc. because he is all about power, control, and what candidacy and FSM forbid, the Presidency could/would do for him, and him alone. I believe he's truly unbalanced and dangerous. I also believe that he's evil and full of hate. I would never knowingly marry someone who could be ok with the kind of things Trump says and does. If my spouse did do a 180 and suddenly say that what Trump says and does are just "politics," then I'd seriously be questioning what was going on in said spouse's head that had made his core values change so much. I can co-exist or even marry someone that I have serious political and ideological differences with. But I don't think the things Trump is saying and doing are just political or ideological. They are far more important than that. They're what you've already mentioned, Lauren. They're about core values like family, honor, and virtue. They're about what type of HUMAN BEING he is, and issues of humanity are far more important to me than politics-at least when someone like Trump is one party's nominee. Because once he has all that blind party loyalty behind him, I think our nation is in grave danger of setting off a real bad dark spot in world history. This--a million times THIS! Perfectly said! Thank you!
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Jun 5, 2016 12:50:24 GMT
Since I didn't get any real response on Lauren's other thread on this same topic, I'll ask here as well. Why are concerns about Donald Trump's racism, misogyny, anti-Muslim rhetoric, promotion of violence and war crimes and mocking the disabled being discussed and dismissed as though it's a mere difference in political ideology? I don't know what this question has to do with the thead unless you are married to Donald. Plenty of people don't agree with all of the things a politician does or believes, yet they can still vote for them. I don't like that Bill cheated on Hillary. It would be very hard for me in my own marriage to stay. But my husband voting for him doesn't make him a cheater or someone who thinks it's acceptable. But given his options Bill was the least worst for him. Isn't the hat the way it goes?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 23:27:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 12:58:19 GMT
Probably because it's not a real question. You believe Trump is all of those things, and that anyone who supports him or who wouldn't question someone who does is, by association, all of those things. You've made it clear what you think of all those people, so what's to be gained by answering your "question?"
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artbabe
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,352
Jun 26, 2014 1:59:10 GMT
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Post by artbabe on Jun 5, 2016 13:00:17 GMT
I'm a conservative. I rarely date conservatives. Almost all of my relationships have been with Democrats. I have no problem with dating men who don't have the same political beliefs. But a Steelers' fan? That would probably be my deal breaker.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,015
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Jun 5, 2016 13:03:53 GMT
Because it is the 2nd thread Lauren started in response to another pea saying that she would divorce her husband if he voted for Donald Trump. Not because of a difference in political ideology but because of "core beliefs." And yet, many people keep reverting to the insistence that it's just a silly difference in politics. I think it's dismissive and deliberately misses the point. If your spouse came home and announced that he wished he could vote for Idi Amin or Benito Mussolini, would that just be a matter of silly politics or indicative of a change in his core beliefs?
ETA:
Wrong and a completely unfair accusation. I've made it clear what I think about the things Donald Trump has said with his own voice. Anything else is your own extrapolation. In truth, I actually think most people disagree with Donald Trump about the issues I raised but are willing to overlook it because there is an (R) after his name. I do not and will not believe that those are core beliefs shared by the majority of people choosing to vote for him. However, for SOME people, his core beliefs are not things that can just be overlooked because of "politics" and that gets to the heart of my question. When talking about why a spouse might divorce because of a vote for Donald Trump, it's not really about politics at all and I think it's rude and dismissive to keep suggesting that it is.
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Post by monklady123 on Jun 5, 2016 13:13:10 GMT
Since I didn't get any real response on Lauren's other thread on this same topic, I'll ask here as well. Why are concerns about Donald Trump's racism, misogyny, anti-Muslim rhetoric, promotion of violence and war crimes and mocking the disabled being discussed and dismissed as though it's a mere difference in political ideology? I don't know what this question has to do with the thead unless you are married to Donald. Plenty of people don't agree with all of the things a politician does or believes, yet they can still vote for them. I don't like that Bill cheated on Hillary. It would be very hard for me in my own marriage to stay. But my husband voting for him doesn't make him a cheater or someone who thinks it's acceptable. But given his options Bill was the least worst for him. Isn't the hat the way it goes? Sarah's question has a lot to do with this thread. No, those things Sarah listed are not specific "Democrat/Republican" differences in beliefs. But the man is running for PRESIDENT, not some local election or even Congress where he would be representing the people who elected him. As President he has to take his anti-Muslim rhetoric and go deal with Muslim countries. He has to deal with non-white countries with his racism. With his misogyny he has to deal with countries who have women in leadership. With his views on war crimes and violence he has to deal with countries who violate international laws in that area. Our president is the most important "voice" of the United States overseas (along with our ambassadors and other representatives of course...) Many countries already don't respect him, do we think that would change if he were elected? All of his horrible qualities are not "political" in the same way a candidate's views on social services are, or job creation, or government's role in local politics...etc. No, they're not the same at all, they're worse. If my president believes the government should be involved in my local politics I might disagree, or vice versa. But that says nothing really about what kind of person the president is, it says nothing about how he treats other people. Donald Trumps actions and rhetoric say it all.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 23:27:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 13:16:52 GMT
OK, then, I apologize. I think your explanation answers your own question, though. You say that most people who might vote for him don't share his views on the things you listed and would vote for him for other reasons. Isn't that pretty much what most people on either side have been saying?
ETA: Well, you keep ETAing your ETA, but I still think you're answering your own question.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,015
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Jun 5, 2016 13:19:42 GMT
It doesn't. Many people here have explained that it's not a matter of "politics" for them and it's like they are talking into the wind.
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Post by maryland on Jun 5, 2016 13:25:26 GMT
Many of the things others have mentioned.
One of the things that was important to both of us before we had kids was that our kids would be treated the same regardless of gender. Meaning no double standards (like letting one gender do what they want and being strict with the other gender). That is a big pet peeve for both of us, so it was great that we agreed!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 23:27:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 14:11:45 GMT
It doesn't. Many people here have explained that it's not a matter of "politics" for them and it's like they are talking into the wind. I think it does, but perhaps I don't really understand what you're looking for. I agree with you that if my spouse suddenly started spouting beliefs antithetical to who I've always known him to be, it would be extremely concerning. I disagree with you that voting for any political candidate (in our current race, historical despots aside) is equivalent to that. People get married/divorced for a lot of reasons, many of which other people cannot fathom at all. Sometimes outsiders think those reasons are stupid or silly and will say so. Especially on the internet. If it's just about core values in a marriage, it's nothing to get knickers twisted over, since it's just personal preferences. If it's really about politics and fear of electing a dangerous person (aforementioned historical despots referenced) then that's a whole 'nother topic.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Jun 5, 2016 14:42:30 GMT
I don't know what this question has to do with the thead unless you are married to Donald. Plenty of people don't agree with all of the things a politician does or believes, yet they can still vote for them. I don't like that Bill cheated on Hillary. It would be very hard for me in my own marriage to stay. But my husband voting for him doesn't make him a cheater or someone who thinks it's acceptable. But given his options Bill was the least worst for him. Isn't the hat the way it goes? Sarah's question has a lot to do with this thread. No, those things Sarah listed are not specific "Democrat/Republican" differences in beliefs. But the man is running for PRESIDENT, not some local election or even Congress where he would be representing the people who elected him. As President he has to take his anti-Muslim rhetoric and go deal with Muslim countries. He has to deal with non-white countries with his racism. With his misogyny he has to deal with countries who have women in leadership. With his views on war crimes and violence he has to deal with countries who violate international laws in that area. Our president is the most important "voice" of the United States overseas (along with our ambassadors and other representatives of course...) Many countries already don't respect him, do we think that would change if he were elected? All of his horrible qualities are not "political" in the same way a candidate's views on social services are, or job creation, or government's role in local politics...etc. No, they're not the same at all, they're worse. If my president believes the government should be involved in my local politics I might disagree, or vice versa. But that says nothing really about what kind of person the president is, it says nothing about how he treats other people. Donald Trumps actions and rhetoric say it all. But again, if I'm not married to him, then the idea that someone I know supports him for whatever reason shouldn't be a deal breaker for that relationship. Maybe people hate him but being that they hate Hillary more or democratic ideals then they will hold their collective noses and vote. His rhetoric and hateful beliefs aside that's what happens in a 2 party system. Effectively, you get what you pay for. Plenty of people cannot fathom how someone can support Clinton right now. They just simply cannot wrap their head around it. If you think she is the least worse option given 2 options, do you believe that because of that you should have people you love and care about toss you out of their lives over it?
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jun 5, 2016 14:55:53 GMT
Sarah, I think others here have answered your question perfectly. There is nothing I can add.
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Post by *leslie* on Jun 5, 2016 16:44:15 GMT
My deal breakers would probably be the three A's: abuse, addiction and adultery.
If you are so rigid and close-minded in your ideological thinking that you would divorce your spouse over who they voted for, well that's just ridiculous.
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Post by llinin on Jun 5, 2016 17:50:05 GMT
IMHO, anyone who'd divorce over how their spouse chooses to exercise their constitutional right to vote is not as enlightened, liberal, or tolerant as they so fervently claim. They'd be doing their husband a favor if they are that controlling!
Deal breakers for me are likely abuse, addiction, infidelity, but I'd have to see how it played out.
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whiskerfish
Junior Member
Posts: 57
Jul 2, 2014 2:21:34 GMT
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Post by whiskerfish on Jun 5, 2016 18:34:00 GMT
I don't think reasons for divorce are necessarily shallow. It's what makes the marriage unworkable *for the people in the marriage* that matters. When you consider that the reason given is usually just the tip of the iceberg, the whole discussion becomes pretty silly.
The why doesn't matter, but the who does. There's no need to make someone going through an awful experience feel worse because their reason for ending the marriage isn't "good enough".
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Post by JBeans on Jun 5, 2016 18:41:29 GMT
Since I didn't get any real response on Lauren's other thread on this same topic, I'll ask here as well. Why are concerns about Donald Trump's racism, misogyny, anti-Muslim rhetoric, promotion of violence and war crimes and mocking the disabled being discussed and dismissed as though it's a mere difference in political ideology? I get this side of it too. The problem is, when you only have two choices, the shades of grey are much more prevalent. Like I said, I can't vote, I hate them both.
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Post by Kelpea on Jun 5, 2016 20:34:03 GMT
It's truly stunning to see the simplicity of Sarah's response yet the confusion of the response. Trump is far more than your "typical crooked politician;" his revolting displays toward minorities, Muslims, the disabled and more do NOT represent the typical politician. Further, his inhumane, cavalier attitude have released the lid of the formerly insidiously boiling pot of racism and hate in this country. Thanks to Herr Drumpf it's freaking open season on everyone. Unless, of course, you're white, male and have $. And that's NOT my idea of a good candidate. He has epically failed this country with his hate.
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likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,879
Aug 16, 2014 17:52:53 GMT
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Post by likescarrots on Jun 6, 2016 0:01:24 GMT
I just have no interest in people who hold opposite political beliefs and would be seriously turned off if I found I was dating someone like that. Luckily my husband and I have very similar morals and if anything he has moved closer to my side of the spectrum. It would 100% be a deal breaker for me.
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
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Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Jun 6, 2016 0:27:18 GMT
I'm not a "deal breaker" type, but my DH becoming more conservative wouldn't be a deal breaker. My DH voting for Trump would be very concerning and we would have to discuss this because Trump doesn't reflect the morals of our home.
My DH actively promoting and advocating Trump and his beliefs would have me considering whether I want to stay in a relationship with a racist/sexist/zenophobic bigot that would be influencing my children.
So, I don't see much "kindness and integrity" in people who are glorifying Trump---not in the few I know.
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~Lauren~
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Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jun 6, 2016 0:37:58 GMT
You do understand, don't you, that if you divorced him he'd still have influence over your children. He will have visitation, vacations and possibly equal time as you do.
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