scentcrazy
Junior Member
Posts: 91
Sept 7, 2014 22:03:33 GMT
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Post by scentcrazy on Jun 12, 2016 0:06:28 GMT
Hello everyone! My relative is very upset. She paid a large hospital bill using a money order and sent it certified mail to the payment processing center.
Today she received another bill for the same amount for the bill she just paid which she found confusing. She has all of the paperwork from the money order purchase at the post office. When she called their 1-800 number to inquire about the postal money order she found that it was cashed by someone with a Nigerian last name instead of by the hospital. Mind you, this payment was again sent certified mail so how was this even possible? The bill is now late which causes other issues. Even though the bill and money order was sent certified mail said relative was told that since it was not sent insured that she does not have any recourse.
I refuse to believe that postal fraud can remain unpunished. Advise sorely needed. The local police department has been called.
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Post by elaine on Jun 12, 2016 0:09:57 GMT
If it was sent certified, she should have a receipt of delivery from the post office. Or, at least her original receipt of sending it certified so that the post office can check to see who signed for it.
The paperwork for the certified letter is more important at this point than the paperwork for the money order.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 12, 2016 0:20:46 GMT
Yep--find out who signed for it and where it was cashed!
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Post by shescrafty on Jun 12, 2016 0:26:26 GMT
That is awful!
Can somebody help your relative set up a bill pay from a computer or iPad?
We pay all of our bills that way so we can see exactly where they are going and when they all go through. I hope it gets resolved!
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GiantsFan
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,456
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Jun 27, 2014 14:44:56 GMT
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Post by GiantsFan on Jun 12, 2016 0:34:17 GMT
I'd be looking at the delivery receipt for where and who signed for it.
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Post by Eddie-n-Harley on Jun 12, 2016 0:45:24 GMT
Certified mail isn't insured nor protected:
Certified Mail provides the sender with a mailing receipt and, upon request, electronic verification that an article was delivered or that a delivery attempt was made. Customers can retrieve the delivery status as provided in 1.8. Certified Mail is dispatched and handled in transit as ordinary mail.
In other words, even if the receipt shows the processing center signed for it, it's entirely possible the money order was stolen while it was in the mail stream.
I'm not sure, but I think a money order gets processed by banks a lot like a check. So I'd see if I can get a copy of the cashed money order and see if I can decipher WHERE it was cashed in addition to by whom it was cashed. If you can, call law enforcement in that jurisdiction, too.
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Kerri W
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Jun 25, 2014 20:31:44 GMT
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Post by Kerri W on Jun 12, 2016 0:54:15 GMT
I have purchased a very limited number of money orders, but those I have purchased have always had an area to write who the payee is. Did your family member not make the money order out to the hospital?
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BarbaraUK
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Jun 27, 2014 12:47:11 GMT
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Post by BarbaraUK on Jun 12, 2016 0:55:40 GMT
Hello everyone! My relative is very upset. She paid a large hospital bill using a money order and sent it certified mail to the payment processing center. Today she received another bill for the same amount for the bill she just paid which she found confusing. She has all of the paperwork from the money order purchase at the post office. When she called their 1-800 number to inquire about the postal money order she found that it was cashed by someone with a Nigerian last name instead of by the hospital. Mind you, this payment was again sent certified mail so how was this even possible? The bill is now late which causes other issues. Even though the bill and money order was sent certified mail said relative was told that since it was not sent insured that she does not have any recourse. I refuse to believe that postal fraud can remain unpunished. Advise sorely needed. The local police department has been called. Just curious, but how on earth can you determine that the last name of the person who was said to have cashed it is Nigerian?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 1:20:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2016 1:03:19 GMT
I think you are jumping to a lot of conclusions here.
A money order has to be made out to someone. Who did she make it out to? And how do you know this "Nigerian last name" isn't an employee of the hospital's business office? A business like a hospital can't sign it, a person has to sign it. Have you tried to find out if this person who signed it is in fact not employed by the hospital?
If she doesn't have a checking account for what ever reason, perhaps in the future she can pay you the cash and you can send a check so the hospital can deposit the check without having to go th rough the process of cashing it out first.
eta: I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that all is proper and in order. Only the office for billing is ahead of the office for receiving. So receiving hasn't posted the money had arrived before billing sent out a second notice. Your relative needs to be using a payment method she is more familiar with the way it works and you need to stop assuming someone with a last name other than Smith and Jones is a Nigerian mail fraud.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Jun 12, 2016 1:32:20 GMT
I think you are jumping to a lot of conclusions here. A money order has to be made out to someone. Who did she make it out to? And how do you know this "Nigerian last name" isn't an employee of the hospital's business office? A business like a hospital can't sign it, a person has to sign it. Have you tried to find out if this person who signed it is in fact not employed by the hospital? If she doesn't have a checking account for what ever reason, perhaps in the future she can pay you the cash and you can send a check so the hospital can deposit the check without having to go th rough the process of cashing it out first. eta: I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that all is proper and in order. Only the office for billing is ahead of the office for receiving. So receiving hasn't posted the money had arrived before billing sent out a second notice. Your relative needs to be using a payment method she is more familiar with the way it works and you need to stop assuming someone with a last name other than Smith and Jones is a Nigerian mail fraud. Wouldn't the person at the hospital have a rubber stamp to put the name of the hospital on the check? When I worked for a trust department of a bank I didn't sign my name to the checks that came in, I used a rubber stamp with the name of the trust department.
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Post by Eddie-n-Harley on Jun 12, 2016 1:34:40 GMT
I think you are jumping to a lot of conclusions here. A money order has to be made out to someone. Who did she make it out to? And how do you know this "Nigerian last name" isn't an employee of the hospital's business office? A business like a hospital can't sign it, a person has to sign it. Have you tried to find out if this person who signed it is in fact not employed by the hospital? While it is possible there is someone authorized to sign paper payments for deposits, I think it's far more likely that an entity receiving multiple payments on a daily basis actually has a set of deposit stamps. They typically say something like For Deposit Only/Memorial Hospital SC/Acct #123456789. I would be suspicious, too, if there were a name signed to the back of the check I sent to the hospital.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 1:20:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2016 1:39:44 GMT
I think you are jumping to a lot of conclusions here. A money order has to be made out to someone. Who did she make it out to? And how do you know this "Nigerian last name" isn't an employee of the hospital's business office? A business like a hospital can't sign it, a person has to sign it. Have you tried to find out if this person who signed it is in fact not employed by the hospital? If she doesn't have a checking account for what ever reason, perhaps in the future she can pay you the cash and you can send a check so the hospital can deposit the check without having to go th rough the process of cashing it out first. eta: I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that all is proper and in order. Only the office for billing is ahead of the office for receiving. So receiving hasn't posted the money had arrived before billing sent out a second notice. Your relative needs to be using a payment method she is more familiar with the way it works and you need to stop assuming someone with a last name other than Smith and Jones is a Nigerian mail fraud. Wouldn't the person at the hospital have a rubber stamp to put the name of the hospital on the check? When I worked for a trust department of a bank I didn't sign my name to the checks that came in, I used a rubber stamp with the name of the trust department. We aren't talking about a check. That is the problem. Yes, a check can be rubber stamped by the hospital name and "deposit only" and the transaction goes through the bank. It has been a long time since I've done a money order but they do not go through a bank account. It had to be signed with a person's actual name because they are receiving cash. Their has to be a record of who exactly picked up the cash. The person who got the cash now has to go back to the office, do a bunch of paperwork and process it like a cash payment because essentially that is what it is. Money orders are fine if you are dealing person to person. They can be a nightmare if you are using them to pay in institution instead of a person.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 1:20:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2016 1:41:32 GMT
I think you are jumping to a lot of conclusions here. A money order has to be made out to someone. Who did she make it out to? And how do you know this "Nigerian last name" isn't an employee of the hospital's business office? A business like a hospital can't sign it, a person has to sign it. Have you tried to find out if this person who signed it is in fact not employed by the hospital? While it is possible there is someone authorized to sign paper payments for deposits, I think it's far more likely that an entity receiving multiple payments on a daily basis actually has a set of deposit stamps. They typically say something like For Deposit Only/Memorial Hospital SC/Acct #123456789. I would be suspicious, too, if there were a name signed to the back of the check I sent to the hospital. THIS IS NOT A CHECK. The rules of how to use a check DO NOT APPLY to a money order. The person who presents is is receiving cash. I can tell who has never tried to use a money order to pay a business.....
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Post by mom on Jun 12, 2016 1:45:26 GMT
hmmmm voltagain I am not sure thats correct about it not going through a bank account. My husband has done mechanic work for other people and they have paid by Money Order. We deposited the MO in our account just like a check. We never received cash back, they just deposited into our account like all the other money and checks.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 1:20:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2016 1:47:58 GMT
I do now know scrapscentsy is a racist. See a name she determines is Nigerian and calls the cops instead of calling the hospital's billing department.
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Post by txdancermom on Jun 12, 2016 1:52:37 GMT
she should go to the post office where she purchased the money order and report that it was not cashed by who she made it out to, and see what her recourse it. also take the certified receipt and they can track where it was delivered, and see if it went where it was supposed to.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 12, 2016 2:41:42 GMT
voltagainYou can most certainly make out money orders to businesses, and a business will deposit them into their account just like a check (because the bank will verify that the MO is good before releasing the cash into the business checking account). I hope the OP comes back with more info on what transpired between them finding out it had not been paid and calling the police. voltagain, you need to slow your roll on calling someone a racist geez.
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Post by kamper on Jun 12, 2016 2:54:31 GMT
Isn't it possible that the bill she received was a fake? Someone could have hacked the hospital billing system and seen that she owed money, generated an official looking bill and then sent it to her. Also, I don't know why you would send a MO which is the same as cash through the mail.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jun 12, 2016 3:11:56 GMT
voltagain You can most certainly make out money orders to businesses, and a business will deposit them into their account just like a check (because the bank will verify that the MO is good before releasing the cash into the business checking account). I hope the OP comes back with more info on what transpired between them finding out it had not been paid and calling the police. voltagain , you need to slow your roll on calling someone a racist geez. I worked at a bank for many years and money orders were processed with exactly the same process/equipment as regular bank checks or cashier's checks. People would come in with them, deposit them, and the funds would be deposited in their account just like a check. Oftentimes people would think that a money order was a safer way to handle a sales transaction because it was basically supposed to be guaranteed funds, but since criminals have gotten more creative over the years that is no longer the case. We were trained to look for specific things with money orders, like amounts that had been altered, payees that had been bleached out and re-written, etc. to determine if a money order was legitimate or not and the funds held until it clears just like a check. Also money orders can be stamped with a "pay to the order of / for deposit only" business stamp. I had an out of state customer that would order stuff from me all the time and she would always pay with postal money orders. I stamped them on the back with my business bank stamp and ran them through my account just like any other check. They don't need a personal signature at all. The only kind of checks that DID have to be signed with real signatures were those issued by insurance companies, typically for a claim. Those did have to be signed by the person regardless of whether the check was being deposited or cashed. We couldn't stamp those and they would get kicked back if someone tried.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jun 12, 2016 3:32:45 GMT
Isn't it possible that the bill she received was a fake? Someone could have hacked the hospital billing system and seen that she owed money, generated an official looking bill and then sent it to her. Also, I don't know why you would send a MO which is the same as cash through the mail.They're not exactly the same as cash, but they are a more secure way of paying someone when you (or the person accepting it) is leery of taking a personal check. Lots of people who don't have a checking account typically use them to pay their bills--including sending them through the mail. If the money order is lost or stolen and it hasn't been cashed yet, often the person who bought it can get a replacement or a refund if they still have the receipt. If the money order was cashed, you can get a copy of it but you will probably be out the funds.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jun 12, 2016 3:40:22 GMT
scentcrazy here is the info directly from the USPS website:
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Post by smokeynspike on Jun 12, 2016 4:36:03 GMT
While it is possible there is someone authorized to sign paper payments for deposits, I think it's far more likely that an entity receiving multiple payments on a daily basis actually has a set of deposit stamps. They typically say something like For Deposit Only/Memorial Hospital SC/Acct #123456789. I would be suspicious, too, if there were a name signed to the back of the check I sent to the hospital. THIS IS NOT A CHECK. The rules of how to use a check DO NOT APPLY to a money order. The person who presents is is receiving cash. I can tell who has never tried to use a money order to pay a business..... I work at a bank and this information is absolutely 100% incorrect. We process MOs all the time to businesses just like any other check. The person who bought it may have purchased with cash, but it is still turned into a paper item that is processed like any check, MO, or official bank check.
If after contacting the hospital and they confirm payment (or not), I would make a phone call or head down to the post office. They should be able to see an image of the back of the money order to see either a signature or an endorsement stamp.
I really hope that she made out the MO correctly with the payee name and signed it.
I also would suggest that she not pay her bills by money order if she has a bank that she uses. If she doesn't feel like her checks are safe enough (or whatever the reason may be why she paid by MO), suggest she use bill pay.
Melissa
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craftykitten
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,304
Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
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Post by craftykitten on Jun 12, 2016 7:14:24 GMT
I don't understand why the P.O. would tell her the name of the person who cashed it was 'Nigerian'? Has she spoken to the hospital to see id this person works there?
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Post by bigbundt on Jun 12, 2016 12:34:02 GMT
Has she called hospital billing? It might be possible that the payment just hasn't been applied to her account and so she got a new bill. And some places take a long time to process it. Last year I paid the balance on an ultrasound on the due date (online bill pay). Then I got a bill the looked like I didn't pay anything and "second notice" stamped all over it so I called the office's billing department. They used a larger system for accounts receivable and she said it could take up to two weeks for them to process payments and they don't consider it received until they finish their part so that is why my payment was "late" and not showing up in their system as paid.
Check with the hospital billing. Something nefarious may have happened or it may be perfectly fine and the payment is just bogged down in some inefficient system.
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scentcrazy
Junior Member
Posts: 91
Sept 7, 2014 22:03:33 GMT
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Post by scentcrazy on Jun 12, 2016 13:06:47 GMT
Good morning everyone and thanks for your responses.
I have shared them with said relative (who is my sister) and we are going to pursue the suggestions that you were kind enough to give. Again many thanks. To answer some of the questions asked:
• My sister was waiting for her new checks to arrive and in the meantime needed to pay this bill. That’s why she didn’t use a check instead to pay the bill. • The money order was made out to the hospital so that’s why she became suspicious that it was cashed by an individual and not an agency. • In my OP, I hesitated to write that the last name was Nigerian. She could tell because she has Nigerian friends, co-workers and a few Nigerian sorority sisters. By the way, both she and I are African-American. • My sister will call the local police office tomorrow, thank you to the Pea that made that suggestion.
She will still contact the local post office where she bought the money order and continue to wait to hear from her local police department.
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Post by bigbundt on Jun 12, 2016 13:08:39 GMT
Has she talked with someone in hospital billing?
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Post by secondlife on Jun 12, 2016 13:27:37 GMT
Hello everyone! My relative is very upset. She paid a large hospital bill using a money order and sent it certified mail to the payment processing center. Today she received another bill for the same amount for the bill she just paid which she found confusing. She has all of the paperwork from the money order purchase at the post office. When she called their 1-800 number to inquire about the postal money order she found that it was cashed by someone with a Nigerian last name instead of by the hospital. Mind you, this payment was again sent certified mail so how was this even possible? The bill is now late which causes other issues. Even though the bill and money order was sent certified mail said relative was told that since it was not sent insured that she does not have any recourse. I refuse to believe that postal fraud can remain unpunished. Advise sorely needed. The local police department has been called. Just curious, but how on earth can you determine that the last name of the person who was said to have cashed it is Nigerian? In a previous job, I worked for a Nigerian clergyman and therefore with many individuals whose heritage is Nigerian, so I became familiar with some of the names of Nigerian people. Some surnames are strongly associated with some ethnic/linguistic groups in Nigeria and you would probably not have that surname if your heritage was not Nigerian. To someone with more knowledge still, your name can tell someone what region and tribe you come from. This part at least is not particularly problematic. You can't always, but you can often look at someone's name and understand something about their heritage. So that is the answer to that particular question and I think you can go easy there. That said, I have never personally signed business checks/MOs for deposit. We use a stamp or hand sign, in which case it is my name for business name and is still not cashed or deposited by me personally but by me on behalf of the business. If I had sent a large payment in any form to a business and it was cashed by an individual and not shown applied to my account, I would probably conclude that something improper had occurred. In that case the person's last name is irrelevant, but I would probably still think in the direction of contacting law enforcement and not assume that the bank departments are out of sync, especially if the intended recipient has no record of receiving payment anywhere.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 12, 2016 13:33:09 GMT
Good morning everyone and thanks for your responses. I have shared them with said relative (who is my sister) and we are going to pursue the suggestions that you were kind enough to give. Again many thanks. To answer some of the questions asked: • My sister was waiting for her new checks to arrive and in the meantime needed to pay this bill. That’s why she didn’t use a check instead to pay the bill. • The money order was made out to the hospital so that’s why she became suspicious that it was cashed by an individual and not an agency. • In my OP, I hesitated to write that the last name was Nigerian. She could tell because she has Nigerian friends, co-workers and a few Nigerian sorority sisters. By the way, both she and I are African-American. • My sister will call the local police office tomorrow, thank you to the Pea that made that suggestion. She will still contact the local post office where she bought the money order and continue to wait to hear from her local police department. Thanks for the update, keep us posted!!
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Post by Zee on Jun 12, 2016 14:06:26 GMT
I do now know scrapscentsy is a racist. See a name she determines is Nigerian and calls the cops instead of calling the hospital's billing department. Good Lord, I think you need a break. You're wrong about money orders and no, no one in the hospital is signing their own personal last name on a payment to the hospital. Unless it's a ten-man outfit using 1950s era processing, which I guess is maybe possible, but highly highly unlikely. Seeing a last name on a money order made out to the hospital would be very concerning to me, too, and ESPECIALLY if it's Nigerian because, unfortunately, that country is very well known for its scammers. Nor is it racist to be able to spot certain last names as ones that are Nigerian. I'm pretty sure she would have called if Mary Smith had signed, because Mary Smith is not the hospital. Is it out of line to guess that Tran Nguyen is Vietnamese? HwaCha Kim is Korean? Certain ethnicities/nationalities are associated with certain names and it doesn't make you a racist to be able to determine that.
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JustTricia
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Posts: 2,842
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Jul 2, 2014 17:12:39 GMT
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Post by JustTricia on Jun 12, 2016 14:10:13 GMT
If she would have said someone with an Irish last name, would there be the same reaction? With all the scan emails going around from a prince in Nigeria and receiving a bill showing as it was unpaid, I could see me having the first reaction if I knew a last name was Nigerian.
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