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Post by whopea on Jun 14, 2016 20:39:52 GMT
Admittedly I'm not a history major, but I think there is a substantial difference between exterminating millions of lives for the simple fact of their religion vs. wanting to curb immigration of religious-based zealots. Do you not see that? On any given day (just about) one of the history type channels has a show on WWII, and there are a number of them that talk about the rise of Hitler. One the surface of it, yes, there is a difference between the attempted extermination of a people and curbing immigration. But if you were to study the road on how Germany got to the point where they were killing people wholesale, the difference becomes a lot less clear. There is a lot of blah blah blah points, but it begins with a disenfranchised people who felt that they were being held down economically because of war reparation payments, losing their National identity. In turn, they listened to the loudest voices, the ones crying about how they could become a great nation again. Then the loud voices produce a scapegoat, the Jews who controlled the money, and subtly started a campaign where the Jews were the ones who were responsible for all the ill will. Send them away! Don't let them in! Curtail their rights! Over time, it became force them into living in their own neighborhood! Don't let them out! Jail the dissenters! Which then leads into the horror of the camps. So that is the very very simplistic view of how a country was led down a path that ended in the deaths of millions. We say never again, but those who read history see that there are some disturbing similarities. The verbiage is similar, the tactics are not new. A disenfranchised people who feel that they are being held back and are scared, a loud voice telling them that there is hope-hope in the path of exclusion. Keep them out! Send them away! This is where people are feeling that the slope is getting slippery. I see what you're saying. At the end of the day, I don't know whether this Orlando shooter was inspired by ISIS, by his own mental illness, hatred of the LGBT community or some other deep seated reason. What I do know is that we are so polarized in our camps of pro-gun, anti-gun, pro-Hillary, pro-Trump that we forget we are all Americans. Our most solemn duty is to defend our great nation. Trump and Hillary see a different path on how to do that.
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Post by whopea on Jun 14, 2016 20:57:53 GMT
whopea the shooter in Orlando was born in the US. I have not seen that his father was a supporter of the Taliban. Do you have sources for that? That said, as someone else said, Trump married someone who is a direct immigrant of a father with communist ties who lived a country with a higher percentage of Muslims than the US. Under Trumps own designation, seems that she should not be let in the country. This is a pull quote from a Washington Post article: I think that some are mistaking what Trump said. He wanted to ban immigration from predominantly Muslim countries that have terrorist ties or have threatened the US or our allies. I'm not a math major either, but 2.4% does not constitute a majority and I don't think Slovenia fits the terrorist ties angle. Countries that do fit that description might include: Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan.
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Post by M~ on Jun 14, 2016 20:59:25 GMT
See here...cancelling some newspaper's credentials because you don't like what they say? WHOA!!!!
BIG. RED. FLAG.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 23:27:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 21:00:23 GMT
Really? Should we say that the violence in Orlando wouldn't have happened if the gays weren't at that bar? Trump should limit where he goes so that crazies don't get violent? Do you really believe that? You'd never advocate any other group from congregating or attending a function because those who oppose them can't control themselves. Yet Trump should stop campaigning because some liberals choose violence? I'm not saying that at all. Trump can go wherever he wants. He can campaign wherever he wants.
Trump was the first one to bring up riots and violence in regard to his campaign/election. He "predicted" it if he didn't win, basically asking for people to riot in the streets. He also hasn't discouraged it when it's happened against him - in fact he seems to thrive on it.
If I heard the Westboro family was going to be in my area I would be concerned (this actually happened in my town - they were planning to protest a funeral for a service-member, until they found out about security measures the community had put in place & decided it wasn't worth their trip). If the Orlando guy wasn't dead and I heard he was going to be in my area (NOT the people in the club), I would be concerned. Likewise, if I heard Trump was going to be in my area, I would be concerned.
I have nothing against congregating or otherwise peacefully protesting (in fact I've done it, more than once), but when someone comes to my area who has a history of violent protests following him around, then yes I would be uneasy. That's all the o/p was saying, and that's all I was agreeing with. ETA: Correction - it was not the o/p that stated her uneasiness, it was lumo . My apologies. (but I still agree with her)
FTR: I'm neither rep nor dem so that has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion on mr trump
No, he absolutely did not. He was commenting from experience on what people do these days when they're not happy with an outcome and how he believes that would come into play if they tried to work around how the system works and ignore the will of the people. He in no way was "asking people to riot in the streets". Basically, or any other way. I'm not a Trump fan and there's enough disgusting things that he says and does without having to mischaracterize what he does say.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 23:27:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 21:00:25 GMT
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jun 14, 2016 21:01:30 GMT
As opposed to beating someone up because you don't like what their candidate say? To me, that's a much bigger RED FLAG
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jun 14, 2016 21:02:27 GMT
Peaceful protesting is one thing. These people are getting physically violent and acting like a mob against pro-Trump people. Big difference. Intelligent folks understand the difference. Admittedly I'm not a history major, but I think there is a substantial difference between exterminating millions of lives for the simple fact of their religion vs. wanting to curb immigration of religious-based zealots. Do you not see that? I agree with you.
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jun 14, 2016 21:05:08 GMT
But isn't that exactly what you're doing? Excusing it? Blaming it on their emotions or on the fact that Trump is flapping his gums? Violence should be condemned period; not "I don't like violence but it really isn't their fault that they committed it".
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Post by M~ on Jun 14, 2016 21:05:44 GMT
As opposed to beating someone up because you don't like what their candidate say? To me, that's a much bigger RED FLAG Ummm....I don't give a shit about a protester. Trump is the one on the ticket. He's the candidate, not some random asshole. Oh wait...
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 23:27:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 21:06:28 GMT
I think that some are mistaking what Trump said. He wanted to ban immigration from predominantly Muslim countries that have terrorist ties or have threatened the US or our allies. I'm not a math major either, but 2.4% does not constitute a majority and I don't think Slovenia fits the terrorist ties angle. Countries that do fit that description might include: Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan. Nope he wanted to ban them all In his own words
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Jun 14, 2016 21:10:54 GMT
As opposed to beating someone up because you don't like what their candidate say? To me, that's a much bigger RED FLAG Ummm....I don't give a shit about a protester. Trump is the one on the ticket. He's the candidate, not some random asshole. Oh wait... So we are now distinguishing about which lives matter. Okay, good to know.
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Post by refugeepea on Jun 14, 2016 21:11:05 GMT
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Post by refugeepea on Jun 14, 2016 21:12:50 GMT
"Trump encourages the crowd to vent its fury at the protesters. "See, in the good old days this didn't use to happen, because they used to treat them very rough," he said. "We've become very weak." At least one supporter felt the same way: Videos shot at the event showed a man punching a protester as he was removed. The puncher has been charged with assault. [The Atlantic, 3/10/16]" www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/donald-trump-fayetteville/473169/
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Post by whopea on Jun 14, 2016 21:14:17 GMT
I think that some are mistaking what Trump said. He wanted to ban immigration from predominantly Muslim countries that have terrorist ties or have threatened the US or our allies. I'm not a math major either, but 2.4% does not constitute a majority and I don't think Slovenia fits the terrorist ties angle. Countries that do fit that description might include: Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan. Nope he wanted to ban them all In his own wordsIn his most recent words, which I heard and based my opinion on:
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Post by refugeepea on Jun 14, 2016 21:15:20 GMT
LAWRENCE O'DONNELL: We've never seen a presidential candidate encourage violence, but Trumpism has changed everything. Last night in Fayetteville, North Carolina, local sheriff's deputies decided to order Rakeem Jones to leave a Trump rally just as Donald Trump began speaking. Mr. Jones and his friends fully complied with the sheriff's deputies, who surrounded them as they walked out, and then this happened. That was John McGraw who reached over to punch Rakeem Jones. Sheriff deputies treated John McGraw as just another happy Trump supporter and allowed him to go back to his seat while they threw Rakeem Jones to the floor and treated him like a criminal. The sheriff deputies then led Rakeem Jones out of the building and no charges were filed, until today when video of what happened appeared on social media and television. Sheriff's deputies then arrested John McGraw and charged him with assault and battery and disorderly conduct. Last month,this is how Donald Trump urged his supporters to treat protesters.
[BEGIN VIDEO]
DONALD TRUMP: Knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously. OK, just knock the hell -- I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. I promise. I promise.
Lawrence O'Donnell: "We've Never Seen A Presidential Candidate Encourage Violence, But Trumpism Has Changed Everything."
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,015
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Jun 14, 2016 21:15:57 GMT
So far as I can tell, you are the first person who brought up Hillary so maybe you have a problem in perception. Trump's own words (not those spun by whatever media you're talking about) would be monstrous and inhumane regardless of the context in which he spoke them and regardless of whether he was running against Mr. Rogers or Pol Pot. Some things are bigger than partisan politics. Or, I guess, not.
ETA: Oh no, I forgot that Gia brought up Hillary too. She seems to share your sentiments about her though.
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Post by M~ on Jun 14, 2016 21:18:25 GMT
Ummm....I don't give a shit about a protester. Trump is the one on the ticket. He's the candidate, not some random asshole. Oh wait... So we are now distinguishing about which lives matter. Okay, good to know. No. We are focusing on what actually matters. Not playing a shill game. The fact of the matter is, Trump is a pig. In a very expensive suit. With orange hair. He has said some vile and ignorant things and continues to do so. And unfortunately for America, he is the candidate on the other side. I don't give a shit about what he says about immigrants, or blacks, or maybe tomorrow Jews like you and many people on this board. I've heard it all from people around me and while growing up. So shit like that doesn't matter to me, quite frankly. But it matters because I would hope we would expect and demand that presidential candidates are not that small-minded. I suppose it doesn't matter to you. If he is willing to limit press access AS A CANDIDATE, I cannot but wonder what he is capable of doing IF and/or when he has the FULL POWER of the executive branch before him. Today, he did something that dictators do-cancelled press access because he disliked some newspaper's position. That's what's done in Latin America and in other third world countries. NOT IN AMERICA. THAT'S what's important.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Jun 14, 2016 21:18:29 GMT
Actually what his tweet said was - Appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism, I don't want congrats, I want toughness & vigilance. We must be smart! I read that as him saying - I recognize your agreeing with me. I don't want that. I want something done to stop this. That is just the way I read it. Doesn't make me stupid or hateful. Just the way I interpreted it. That was how I interpreted it also. But I'm neither a Hillary nor a Donald fan so feel like I see things differently than each 'side'.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 23:27:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 21:26:57 GMT
In his most recent words, which I heard and based my opinion on: Well he's an expert on making a U turn on what he initially says. He back tracks on virtually every statement he makes.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 23:27:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 21:30:09 GMT
But isn't that exactly what you're doing? Excusing it? Blaming it on their emotions or on the fact that Trump is flapping his gums? Violence should be condemned period; not "I don't like violence but it really isn't their fault that they committed it". There's no way these people can be characterized as decent people.
And decent people don't hurt children and animals.
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,670
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Jun 14, 2016 21:31:46 GMT
I tell you what, if I were a Muslim in this Country I would be very afraid for myself and my family. I would be thinking WWII and interment camps! Please don't vote for this man.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 14, 2016 21:32:28 GMT
As opposed to beating someone up because you don't like what their candidate say? To me, that's a much bigger RED FLAG I think that both are red flags.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 21:33:18 GMT
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Post by mellyw on Jun 14, 2016 21:33:27 GMT
I honestly can not believe that in the relatively short time that has passed since WW2, we have an official candidate for President of the United States, who wants to repeat of our abhorrent behavior during the war. Yes, we won, but we, & I'll include Australia, lost a piece of ourselves when we rounded up citizens of our countries & interned them.
You think that's not far off when there's talk of registering & banning? For f*cks sake, substitute Jewish for Muslim,& really think about it.
How many generations will we have to go back to assure someone doesn't have allegiance to the "homeland"? So far, Mr. Trump has shown his belief that a man, born in the heartland of this country, would side with Mexico. So how far back are you willing to go? When can we assume someone will put the U.S first? Make them sign a pledge? Based on what?Religion?Grandparents came over from Iran? Dad was a member of the communist party?
I am left f*cking gobsmacked that these ideas have gained traction, let alone in a national candidate. History doomed to repeat itself indeed.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jun 14, 2016 21:45:34 GMT
I honestly can not believe that in the relatively short time that has passed since WW2, we have an official candidate for President of the United States, who wants to repeat of our abhorrent behavior during the war. Yes, we won, but we, & I'll include Australia, lost a piece of ourselves when we rounded up citizens of our countries & interned them. You think that's not far off when there's talk of registering & banning? For f*cks sake, substitute Jewish for Muslim,& really think about it. How many generations will we have to go back to assure someone doesn't have allegiance to the "homeland"? So far, Mr. Trump has shown his belief that a man, born in the heartland of this country, would side with Mexico. So how far back are you willing to go? When can we assume someone will put the U.S first? Make them sign a pledge? Based on what?Religion?Grandparents came over from Iran? Dad was a member of the communist party? I am left f*cking gobsmacked that these ideas have gained traction, let alone in a national candidate. History doomed to repeat itself indeed. I agree. Has anyone else seen that Newt Gingrich, who is a potential Trump VP pick, has suggested reviving the House Un-American Activities Committee? This was Joe McCarthy's committee, and it should frighten all of us. Jim Wright of Stonekettle Station wrote an excellent piece about it: www.stonekettle.com/2016/06/the-return-of-tail-gunner-joe.html
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Post by mellyw on Jun 14, 2016 21:46:57 GMT
Oh, & all of you who think you aren't "other", better get your spy gear now. Because Trump has said if a citizen sees something "suspicious" & doesn't report it, jail time for you.
Gee, I wonder where that happened & it turned out so great.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 23:27:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 22:00:54 GMT
water seeks its own level. wow the more things change the more they stay the same. People said and continue to say the exact same things about Obama. It's all political crap, the media shares what will align with their values and will make them the most money. Who people vote for is their business and no matter who you vote for, that does not make you stupid, ignorant racist etc. I am sick of reading this bullshit that I have been coming here less and less and each time it gets worse. So all you on the left enjoy bitching how horrible everyone who isn't Hillary is. This board used to be very informative and even changed my opinion from time to time, but those on the left call those on the right stupid, racist and then those on the right respond with "I know you are but what am I". No matter who wins the election I can guarantee we will still be here in four years. You're making some very broad and sweeping generalizations here. There are a few shrill and obnoxious posters on both sides, and while they may pollute many/most of the political threads, they're not actually representative of all those on their "side." The over-generalizing on both sides needs to stop.
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Post by beebee on Jun 14, 2016 22:02:45 GMT
whopea the shooter in Orlando was born in the US. I have not seen that his father was a supporter of the Taliban. Do you have sources for that? That said, as someone else said, Trump married someone who is a direct immigrant of a father with communist ties who lived a country with a higher percentage of Muslims than the US. Under Trumps own designation, seems that she should not be let in the country. This is a pull quote from a Washington Post article: I think that some are mistaking what Trump said. He wanted to ban immigration from predominantly Muslim countries that have terrorist ties or have threatened the US or our allies. I'm not a math major either, but 2.4% does not constitute a majority and I don't think Slovenia fits the terrorist ties angle. Countries that do fit that description might include: Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan. I have a question on this. Did Trump say to stop the immigration from these countries completely and that is the end of the story.... or did he say stop immigration from these countries and look at the process to make sure we are doing everything we can to stop terrorists from entering?? To me, there is a huge difference in the two statements.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Jun 14, 2016 22:06:28 GMT
water seeks its own level. wow the more things change the more they stay the same. People said and continue to say the exact same things about Obama. It's all political crap, the media shares what will align with their values and will make them the most money. Who people vote for is their business and no matter who you vote for, that does not make you stupid, ignorant racist etc. I am sick of reading this bullshit that I have been coming here less and less and each time it gets worse. So all you on the left enjoy bitching how horrible everyone who isn't Hillary is. This board used to be very informative and even changed my opinion from time to time, but those on the left call those on the right stupid, racist and then those on the right respond with "I know you are but what am I". No matter who wins the election I can guarantee we will still be here in four years. Speaking solely for myself (because I don't know what's in anyone else's brain), I'm not on the left nor the right, Hillary and the others who aren't her have absolutely nothing to do with my opinion on this, and the only person I'm bitching about how horrible they are is trump, which I would be no matter what (clarifying - not blindly hating on him - if he were to suddenly become a different personality then I would absolutely re-think my opinion).
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suzastampin
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,587
Jun 28, 2014 14:32:59 GMT
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Post by suzastampin on Jun 14, 2016 22:12:19 GMT
I had Fox News on on Sunday. Not a channel I normally watch. Why are they having such a fit because Pres. Obama won't call them "radical Islamic terrorists". Over and over they were saying it, so it would appear that they think he should. Why?
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