|
Post by utmr on Aug 3, 2014 14:01:14 GMT
I'd be really unhappy with (1) the rules changing after camp has started. If it was spelled out up front, then that would be different. (2) The change being communicated by one counsellor. If there was some need for a change, the head person should have communicated it to all campers at the same time and communicated it to the parents with an explanation for the last minute change. (3) Being treated condescendingly by the counsellor. These programs are a huge commitment of time and money, and the parents should be treated properly.
I think a counsellor has gotten carried away, possibly based on her own body issues. It will be interesting to see what response the higher-ups have.
|
|
|
Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 3, 2014 14:04:32 GMT
It's not right for them to change dress code this late in the program. Does she have stuff at home that you can send to her so it cost less.
I know you know what your daughter wears but I'm wondering if some other girls were wearing crop tops with tiny shorts or shorter crop tops that maybe weren't as appropriate as the picture you posted and that's why they changed the dress code. If that were the case then I guess they couldn't just pick out certain girls they would have to make it dress code for all crop tops to be out. I still don't think it was right to do this, they should have waited for next years program to change the dress code I'm just wondering if this is what happened. I'm wondering this as well. I see what girls are wearing at the mall and other places and often ask myself what their parents are thinking letting then out I the house like that. Makes me glad I have boys! Apparently there Is a lot of variation in what is appropriate or not. That being said, I do agree that it is crappy of them to change the rules after the girls are already there. They should have taken note of the problems and made changes for next year.
|
|
|
Post by DinCA on Aug 3, 2014 14:22:30 GMT
I'd be very upset if my child called home to tell me the rules were changed after she arrived. And to suggest she go out to buy new things is ridiculous. If they are having a problem with girls showing too much, then a change should be made to the handbook before the NEXT session.
Let us know what happens. I will be very surprised if her superior doesn't veto it.
ETA: I think the clothing you showed is appropriate but that's not really the issue. The issue is, for me, is that it is unreasonable to demand this of the girls after the program has begun.
|
|
|
Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 3, 2014 14:51:44 GMT
My daughter is younger than yours, so we're just dipping our toe into summer intensives. My observation is that there is a high level of unreasonable expectations on flexibility and unlimited money. I'm sure it's partly due to the fact that particularly for the top tier programs, many, many more dancers want to attend than they can accommodate - then you add on the utterly insane fees which the parents pay - it's not too surprising that in their mind, picking up a few tanks at target isn't a huge deal when you're already in for several thousands of dollars. The number of last minute skirts, jazz shoes, different colored leos etc. is mind boggling. Most of it was communicated before we actually shipped her off, but in general we've been pretty unimpressed with the overall organization of the programs we've participated in - if the actually ballet company is well run, I'd call that success.
|
|
|
Post by originalvanillabean on Aug 3, 2014 14:52:49 GMT
I'm fine with a dress code.
I'm absolutely NOT fine with them changing what is acceptable in the middle of camp, for many of the reasons mentioned.
melissa, please do let us know what you hear back and good for you to email up the chain. This most certainly wasn't handled professionally.
|
|
|
Post by BuckeyeSandy on Aug 3, 2014 15:11:29 GMT
My guess is someone took it too far and caused the staff to implement a dress code whether appropriate or not. I've seen what some of the high school kids here wear and I wouldn't be surprised to know that somebody pushed the limits with their clothing. Some of their midriff tops are very short and loose and would not suit most dress codes. I would send her a cami to layer under the tops, and a couple extra shirts, and move on. She is under the authority of camp staff and I think they have a right to implement a policy mid-session if there's a problem. I'm sure your daughter looks fine. There's nothing wrong with the outfit you posted. But if some girls are wearing excessively revealing midriff tops, the policy probably has to ban all midriff tops, because otherwise it's arbitrary. Sorry that happened. It would sure be a pain to have to ship some clothes in the middle of things. And another in agreement with "moveablefeast" changes "mid-way" in a program... someone "pushed" the envelope too far. I'm sorry for your DD, I understand, and I applaud her action to "make-do" with what she has on hand. You are raising a remarkable young lady, able to roll with life tosses, well done mom! And yes, if it were mine, I'd be a little P.O.'ed right now too.
|
|
|
Post by anonrefugee on Aug 3, 2014 15:18:28 GMT
I agree the timing and communication stink, someone else probably took it too far, and the entire situation is a PIA. I'd complain to company too- although I'd omit discussing her physical perfection.
But, this training sounds like an important event in your daughters life - I would rather my kid stay focused on that experience not lead a fight against the dress code.
Overnight her a few tops from home, so she can enjoy her minimal free time and give her all to the training. Don't lose thousands of dollars by being self righteous over another $20.
(Fwiw our DS returned this week from an expensive program, buying the last few pieces of gear made me feel drained. I get it.)
|
|
|
Post by Pahina722 on Aug 3, 2014 15:53:02 GMT
I'm torn on this one. On one hand, the school should have been very explicit in its precamp info about the dress code no-no's if it wasn't going to allow such clothing. Since it wasn't, it should never have changed after the camp started.
On the other hand, neither the shorts or the top would meet dress code requirements at any area school, so I would never have let my daughter build an entire casual wardrobe around those types of items. Yes, they are cute, but this is a school-type setting. While the dancers' bodies are toned enough to pull them off, that isn't the point, is it? What is appropriate when representing an organization is.
Now, the counselor's condescension is a WHOLE different issue!
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 18:18:00 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2014 15:54:53 GMT
I'm torn on this one. On one hand, the school should have been very explicit in its precamp info about the dress code no-no's if it wasn't going to allow such clothing. Since it wasn't, it should never have changed after the camp started. On the other hand, neither the shorts or the top would meet dress code requirements at any area school, so I would never have let my daughter build an entire casual wardrobe around those types of items. Yes, they are cute, but this is a school-type setting. While the dancers' bodies are toned enough to pull them off, that isn't the point, is it? What is appropriate when representing an organization is. Now, the counselor's condescension is a WHOLE different issue! When they are in the school setting, they are wearing dance attire. This is for afterhours wear.
|
|
|
Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 3, 2014 16:14:18 GMT
I'm torn on this one. On one hand, the school should have been very explicit in its precamp info about the dress code no-no's if it wasn't going to allow such clothing. Since it wasn't, it should never have changed after the camp started. On the other hand, neither the shorts or the top would meet dress code requirements at any area school, so I would never have let my daughter build an entire casual wardrobe around those types of items. Yes, they are cute, but this is a school-type setting. While the dancers' bodies are toned enough to pull them off, that isn't the point, is it? What is appropriate when representing an organization is. Now, the counselor's condescension is a WHOLE different issue! When they are in the school setting, they are wearing dance attire. This is for afterhours wear. But keep in mind the intensives are typically held on college campuses - where they may be a whole variety of other programs of various ages and college students who remain on campus for different reasons. You drop a few hundred underage ballet dancers, and I understand the schools desire for modesty. In some of these programs, girls are as young as 13. I'd also say, spending 8-10 hours a day wearing a leotard gives a bit of a warped view of what's appropriate attire. It isn't any different than when I was growing up as a swimmer. I spent hours upon hours living in a bathing suit -everything seemed modest compared to that - even those nylon short, shorts which my parents detested.
|
|
|
Post by chaosisapony on Aug 3, 2014 16:15:44 GMT
Yeah, changing the dress code in the middle of the program is not ok. Many people would not have the funds to "just go buy new clothes tomorrow".
|
|
|
Post by CarolT on Aug 3, 2014 16:42:38 GMT
I think it's completely unreasonable for dress codes to change without reasonable notice.
If the program wants to change the dress code, it needs to be effective next session/year, and notice needs to be made to that effect in materials sent to families next year - something like "please note, our dress code has changed for the 2015 summer session".
If a particular girl is wearing something that is truly inappropriate, it should be addressed privately with her, not prompt a dress code change for all.
|
|
huskergal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,265
Jun 25, 2014 20:22:13 GMT
|
Post by huskergal on Aug 3, 2014 17:35:09 GMT
I'd be very annoyed, and I see nothing wrong with that outfit.
|
|
|
Post by annabella on Aug 3, 2014 17:49:59 GMT
I understand your annoyance but I'm sure a top like that wouldn't be allowed in school, so not surprised it was banned at camp. I would just mail her some shirts from her closet. Did you NOT read where it was fine last year and now the rules have changed??? Geeze... I'd be ticked too...it's like what happened here one year in the school district I live in. Dress code changed on the first day of school...not one email went out in August about somethings that were now not allowed. Parents and kids (my niece was one) had already spent money on said items (don't remember the exact item) and now they weren't allowed?? That went over like a lead balloon and the school relented. Dumb asses Yes I did read that and also that her dd had less shirts less year and may have just went under the radar last year.
|
|
|
Post by annabella on Aug 3, 2014 17:51:18 GMT
I'm torn on this one. On one hand, the school should have been very explicit in its precamp info about the dress code no-no's if it wasn't going to allow such clothing. Since it wasn't, it should never have changed after the camp started. On the other hand, neither the shorts or the top would meet dress code requirements at any area school, so I would never have let my daughter build an entire casual wardrobe around those types of items. Yes, they are cute, but this is a school-type setting. While the dancers' bodies are toned enough to pull them off, that isn't the point, is it? What is appropriate when representing an organization is. Now, the counselor's condescension is a WHOLE different issue! Exactly
|
|
mely
Junior Member
Posts: 89
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:59 GMT
|
Post by mely on Aug 3, 2014 18:16:44 GMT
I would wait to hear back from the higher up in the company. If the shirts are indeed not allowed, I would drop a few shirts in the mail. I don't like being hot and I don't think it's reasonable to expect someone to layer shirts on in a place with no ac.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 18:18:00 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2014 19:34:24 GMT
My dd went to a film intensive at UNCSA as a HS and a lot of the dance kids were younger..... And she now attends as a college student and lived last year with a dancer. Many of them do run around in clothes less modest than that.
So I also agree with whoever above stated that there are probably other intensives happening and often the dancers are the ones that push the limits because they do feel that they have great athletic perfect bodies and can push the modesty envelope because of it.
I can understand changing mid-stream if the group went too far...
|
|
|
Post by scraphappy0501 on Aug 3, 2014 19:50:39 GMT
Just chiming in that I agree with most of the previous posters. Regardless of my feelings on dress codes, no mention of the restrictions beforehand and changing what is acceptable mid-stream is wrong. And I'd be right there with you Melissa emailing and calling higher-ups to get this issue resolved.
|
|
|
Post by I-95 on Aug 3, 2014 19:52:22 GMT
I'd be annoyed. Even if one or two of the participants took it too far that doesn't make it OK to change the rules mid-stream and then just tell a child to 'go buy some more clothes'. If it is a blanket policy change, then the admin should have notified parents via email, not some random counselor addressing the issue with an individual participant.
I'd be really interested in the kind of response you get from the organizers.....who should have anticipated an issue like this anyway. This is not their first rodeo!
|
|
|
Post by gypsymama on Aug 3, 2014 20:52:28 GMT
i can't get over the fact that UT dorms don't have a/c! i went to college in texas 25 years ago and we had a/c! i can't even imagine trying to sleep during august in texas with no a/c i'm also in agreement wiht the majority on the thread, not ok to change the dress code in the middle of things, when these kids are across the country from their homes and parents
|
|
melissa
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,912
Jun 25, 2014 20:45:00 GMT
|
Post by melissa on Aug 4, 2014 2:24:24 GMT
Dd is finished in Austin and has moved on to her next program. The dorms in Austin were over the top fabulous! She was in the Calloway House there.
Dd sent a few texts today. She is over it. Doesn't bother her. She'll make do with what she has. It's only 2 more weeks and she really does spend most of her time in her dancewear. This was about what she wears in her down time, hanging out in and around the dorm. When she goes anywhere else, she is generally wearing a summer dress. I regret that I took a few of them home. As I said, she went to this program last summer and knew she would be living in shorts and tops outside of class and not leaving campus very often. Oddly enough, there are people, particularly counselors, attired in what dd considers considerably less modest attire- tight t-shirts showing cleavage, muscle shirts, etc.
I personally believe in dress codes but do believe they need to be carefully thought out and applied. And, of course, spelled out in advance of the school year or other program. Just as with every program she has attended, we both carefully read the dress code section and complied to the nth degree.
In the end, what she is most concerned with is the treatment by this one counselor. Not only was she condescending with me, dd has described her attitude in general as "sassy." She has given both her and roommate attitude on more than one occasion. Fortunately, the counselor to whom dd is assigned is back on duty today. Dd has scheduled time to meet with her this evening.
It's all really silly. She is there to dance. The need for counselors for this age group is minimal. Their primary purpose should be to ensure safety. Her contact with them last year was pretty minimal... mainly at bed check! She is in the exact same age group this year. It does seem like some, perhaps even this one counselor, are creating extra rules unnecessarily. Ironically, dd actually has friends who are counselors in this program, but they are assigned to much younger groups. She has declined to discuss the issue with them or anyone else as she doesn't want to make a bigger deal out of it. She'll confine the discussion to her assigned counselor only.
I am still surprised by the lack of a response. Because of her relationship with the ballet company itself, I could choose to take this significantly higher, but I do not plan to. It is what it is... an annoyance.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 18:18:00 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 2:40:37 GMT
If they changed rules after it had already started..tough noogies! If that's all she has, that's all she has. I'm all for, if you don't want to abide by the rules, find another place to go", but in this case, they changed rules part of the way in.
I'd tell my daughter to wear what was packed and that's it.
|
|
melissa
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,912
Jun 25, 2014 20:45:00 GMT
|
Post by melissa on Aug 4, 2014 2:55:19 GMT
I edited the original post and put the newest update there... will copy it here too Dd met with the actual counselor to whom she is assigned. This counselor was off yesterday when all this occurred. It turns out that one of my hypotheses was correct. This ALL came from a single counselor. It is the same counselor who was rude to me on the phone. Dd was able to show her counselor the exact outfit in question as she had worn it in a Snapchat that was still saved on her ipod. Her counselor thought it was ridiculous and an over reaction. Dd is allowed to wear the clothing she brought with her. Counselor thinks there is nothing inappropriate about dd's attire whatsoever. Counselor agrees that it is silly to even say it is an influence on the younger dancers and what they might wear. Just like dd, all of those dancers only have what they brought with them. I think the counselor in question has some issues of her own. I do know that not all counselors hired are dancers, some are college students from the local college. I'd bet she is one of those and, in retrospect, was not the best candidate for this job. I still have not had a reply from the head counselor and I let dd know that if they inquire, I still expect an email or phone call in reply. Her own counselor was forwarded a copy of my email which means the email was read. Her counselor offered to call me and explain. I am fine with dd's explanation. I am not OK with a lack of response from the administration (head counselor). I am sure I will eventually hear back from the person above her when she returns to work later in the week. Oh and one more update... they went to Balboa Beach today. No mall, no shopping anyway. I have seen some photos on Instagram of dancers running around in little bikinis. This counselor from yesterday might have had a stroke if she was chaperoning!
|
|
|
Post by Chips on Aug 4, 2014 3:02:07 GMT
So glad this was resolved and I hope the consoler is retrained about this sort of stuff. She is so out of line implementing her own dress code.
|
|
|
Post by Eddie-n-Harley on Aug 4, 2014 3:02:21 GMT
But I would also not let my teenager wear those shirts not matter how fit she is. Oh, good. It's not just me.
|
|
melissa
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,912
Jun 25, 2014 20:45:00 GMT
|
Post by melissa on Aug 4, 2014 3:48:52 GMT
Do you have a 17 yr old daughter? Or are you projecting?
I would highly recommend not turning this thread into something else. I do not have the patience for it. And I do not care what you think you would and would not allow your own 17 yo college student to wear.
|
|
|
Post by redayh on Aug 4, 2014 7:06:50 GMT
But I would also not let my teenager wear those shirts not matter how fit she is. Oh, good. It's not just me. I sit with you guys. Call me an old lady. And I don't care a whit about if she (my kid) has a *great* figure and can carry it off. I'm always skeeved out when I see the teenaged girls in those little outfits out with their mothers. Or when I hear the Moms brag about how "Becky has a great little body" ( true story and have heard it more than once). Consequently a last minute dress code change to something more conservative wouldn't have bothered me. But I can see how some would be bothered.
|
|
wenchie
Junior Member
now I have to figure out a whole new website-blech
Posts: 71
Jun 26, 2014 14:49:36 GMT
|
Post by wenchie on Aug 4, 2014 7:50:50 GMT
I agree with posters who would be annoyed with a rule change mid-stream, that is just ridiculous! I have 17, 18, and twenty year old daughters and 2 of the 3 are mosdest dressers,and one does wear crop tops and high waisted shorts. I prefer to see a few inches of toned midriff than someone's ass cheeks hanging out the back.
I am interested in finding out if the oh-so-offended counselor is older or has body issues of her own.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 18:18:00 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 8:46:47 GMT
Melissa...glad it's all mostly worked out. I hope your daughter has a great time!!! Somehow, I've missed seeing you around here on the new board. Glad to see you. And PS... Folks, I'm probably one of the most conservative dress people that you'll ever meet, but I don't think it's right judging and criticizing other peoples' parenting decisions. I would resent more liberal folks telling me that I'm teaching my (hypothetical) daughter to be a prude, and this is the same situation in reverse. PS 2... I'm loving the high-waisted shorts...reminds me of the '40s type dress, which was my favorite dressing decade of the 20th century.
|
|
melissa
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,912
Jun 25, 2014 20:45:00 GMT
|
Post by melissa on Aug 4, 2014 12:21:17 GMT
I will remind the the pearl clutching naysayers that I posted a photo of a model that is obviously somewhat photoshopped with clothing that is most likely also clipped in the back to make it appear tighter. Have you not ever seen what a modeling shoot looks like? Do you actually believe everything you see?
I mentioned my daughter's figure because I didn't want anyone to think that she has parts hanging out anywhere. Yes, there is a small amount of midriff skin exposed, depending on the angle and how she is standing.
You have never seen her dressed one way or another. You know nothing other than the first photo I found that was representative, so until you have actually seen her or photos of her, you know nothing. You don't know me. You don't know my kid.
This was a single counselor who obviously has other issues. This is not the only issue my daughter and her roommate have had with this counselor and her attitude. This is obviously a young woman who is not suited for this job. It happens.
|
|